No doppler or ultrasound - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 48 Old 09-26-2014, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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No doppler or ultrasound

Is anyone else not using any ultrsound technology? We have decided to only use a fetoscope to listen to the heartbeat instead of a doppler ultrasound. We didn't see the point of opting out of the ultrasound but still using a doppler(with ultrasound waves). I am almost 12 weeks and get to hear the heartbeat at the earliest 18-20 weeks. It's hard but I have to keep reminding myself, good things come to those who wait!
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#2 of 48 Old 09-26-2014, 07:22 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure I'm opting out of the ultrasound, mostly because I don't see the point in it. As my friend puts it "intervention only leads to more intervention," and we don't want to know the sex of the baby until birth, so I don't see any reason to do it personally (I can never tell what I'm looking at in those things anyway...). We've had lots of family members ask about it, because I think they all want to see the picture. I'm sure they'll understand, though.

We are getting the doppler because I do really want to hear the heartbeat -- I think that will make it feel that much more real and just gives me goosebumps even thinking about being able to hear it!! We're hoping we'll be able to hear it next Monday (I'll be 11.5 weeks; still early, but totally possible), but we'll see!
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#3 of 48 Old 09-26-2014, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes you will hear it for sure! Our mothers are being pretty understanding about the no doppler/ultrasound but we did get some serious backlash from my husbands sister and her husband. They're both doctors and freaked out when we said we weren't having any pictures. It really pissed me off, tbh. I told them, "this is exactly why I'm seeing a midwife!!" I need to be supported and trusted during this time!! My midwives were totally fine with waiting to use a fetoscope. One of the midwives did the same as I did which made me feel better about my decision and my husband is totally on board. we're also thinking about investing in a semi professional fetoscope so we can listen to the heartbeat at home!
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#4 of 48 Old 09-27-2014, 12:23 PM
 
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Same here! My mindset of life tries to be "everything happens perfectly/everything is meant to be". Plus I think ultrasound pictures look kinda weird. Obviously, I am taking some modern precautions (seeing a midwife, taking vitamins, etc), but I love to be in touch with my ancient roots as much as possible. Millions of women gave birth without ultrasound or other interventions and I want to channel their power. Again, there is a second side to the story that it was normal for many women and babies to die from complications we are now able to prevent.

I guess I'm just trying for a balance! My hope for all birthing women is that they are empowered to follow their intuition and make their own choices based on informed consent.
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#5 of 48 Old 09-27-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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From what I've read if complications arrive there are signs and your midwife would then request you get a sonogram. I feel the serious abnormalities that present themselves on the anatomy scan are very rare and not much you can do about them if they happen.
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#6 of 48 Old 09-29-2014, 03:39 PM
 
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I admire you ladies for your dedication to your path, spring goddess I agree where possible everyone should be empowered to follow their own path. I just wanted to pipe up and let you know I support you. My path is different and that's fine too after all the effort and intervention to get pg, it would seem unnatural to not keep checking on them lol - I think I'd have abandonment issues
However I'll still be balancing and hoping for a more natural birth through natural therapies. Apparently regular Bowen therapy makes labour easier and faster - they say midwives can tell you've had it done?
Best of luck to you!
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#7 of 48 Old 09-29-2014, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well thank you! I can understand people wanting to see and hear! I'm sure it makes it feel very real. I have had many pregnancy dreams and no shortness of symptoms which is helpful for me to know it's all really happening. Everyone's path is right for them, I agree and should be encouraged. It's all very exciting regardless of the way we choose to enjoy it
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#8 of 48 Old 09-30-2014, 11:45 AM
 
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We will be going without ultrasound, and mainly without doppler as well. After losing my last pregnancy, I had a lot of anxiety and so opted to use the doppler last week and have been so reassured by that — which, I believe, is creating an ultimately healthier environment for the baby. From here on out I'd prefer to use fetal stethescope though.

When I was pregnant with my son, we used no us/or doppler but then had continuous fetal monitoring at his birth. Kind of ironic, I guess. Hoping for a safer, more natural birth experience this time.
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#9 of 48 Old 09-30-2014, 05:28 PM
 
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Well, we are *exactly* opposite in that I get U/S twice with OB and another couple "just for fun" by ER docs at work and another 2 today b/c of bleeding, but hey, I think y'all are brave and more power to you! I did the sex mystery thing twice already and it was fun, so I can totally understand that! (And no U/S with 2nd because, well, it was never indicated) I hope y'all have wonderful pregnancies.
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#10 of 48 Old 09-30-2014, 10:12 PM
 
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Well, we are *exactly* opposite in that I get U/S twice with OB and another couple "just for fun" by ER docs at work and another 2 today b/c of bleeding, but hey, I think y'all are brave and more power to you! I did the sex mystery thing twice already and it was fun, so I can totally understand that! (And no U/S with 2nd because, well, it was never indicated) I hope y'all have wonderful pregnancies.
I am the same. I strongly believe in the 2 routine ultrasounds to check on health of the baby, that way we can prepare if need be. They are perfectly safe. I will also be having 3D ultrasounds again like the past 2. It is what made me want to go to school to be an ultrasound technician! I spend a lot of time studying ultrasounds and love playing guess the gender games haha!

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#11 of 48 Old 09-30-2014, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Since my midwives do not require an ultrasound and about 50% of their clients opt out. I feel more confident. I just want a healthy baby and the less ultrasound waves the more peace of mind, for me. I'm sure I would feel differently if there was something I needed to be reassured of. Hopefully everything goes smoothly for us all.
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#12 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 03:16 AM
 
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Here in Sweden there is only ONE routine ultrasound between weeks 18-20 - the anatomy scan. Everything else is elective or depends on the needs/age of the mother. Anyone younger than 30 is not even offered the nuchal scan. After 30, we're given the choice, but the recommendation comes only for mothers 35+. I had the nuchal scan done with my daughter when I was only 27 and it actually helped me so much to relax and enjoy the pregnancy ... so I'm doing it this time as well. I opted out of it with baby number 2 and it only lead to me finding out later on that the baby passed ... had I had the nuchal scan done, I would've found out earlier that the baby passed.

With my daughter, I had 3 ultrasounds - way above the national 'average,' and the pregnancy was perfect and she was born perfect and now, 3.5 years later she's still perfect. I'm definitely a proponent of not overdoing it with ultrasounds, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with having 2 done.

I don't think the dating ultrasound is necessary (unless the woman doesn't even know the month of the conception) and the nuchal scan is just something extra, but I personally view the anatomy scan as very important as there are things that can be revealed by it (heart conditions, etc.) that can help the professionals to later on prepare for when the baby arrives.
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#13 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 08:47 AM
 
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I think whatever women want to do, they should do. I don't understand why it is an issue.

With my pregnancies since my 5th baby, I get an early ultrasound to ensure the sac is in the uterus, as I have had surgery on my tubes, so ectopic risk is elevated. Before that, I had only the 18-20 week scan, with the exception of my 3rd as she was a persistent transverse lie.

With my 6th baby I did NOT have the scan early on, as I was having a homebirth, and felt confident things were fine. I wasn't going to have any ultrasounds at all, but when I measured large for dates my midwife encouraged me to get one to ensure dates were good (I knew they were) and that there was only one babe..turns out he was just large. I really didn't want to, and should have just not done it, in retrospect.

This pregnancy I've had several because there are twins and ultrasound has been proven to be an effective, non-invasive tool to check on growth and placental issues with twins, etc. I think it's indicated this time. I plan on seeing them a lot via ultrasound, and I'm good with that. Should we be blessed with more babies in the future, I expect an ultrasound at about 5 weeks to see a sac and then 18 weeks again.

Do what makes you feel comfortable. Millions of healthy children were born before ultrasound was invented, and million are born safely after checking on their health with ultrasound.

Blessings!
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#14 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 09:30 AM
 
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I think whatever women want to do, they should do. I don't understand why it is an issue.
I really don't think anyone is saying it's an issue. We're all just sharing how we feel about it.
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#15 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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Actually, Wilhelmina, there is an issue with it. Many women don't want u/s and are pressured by care providers. Some don't want dopplers and are pressured. Since the OP posted a question about anyone else avoiding dopplers or u/s, clearly she was seeking support/women making the same decision, over that choice, as it is not as common.

Some women seek more u/s for reassurance and are dismissed. So yes, there are issues with it. I wasn't talking about YOU just because I said the word "issue". How about since I've posted reassuring stuff to you and you've completely ignored it, but called me out a few times instead, you and I just steer clear of one another? I'm not into drama, real life or internet.

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#16 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 11:57 AM
 
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How about since I've posted reassuring stuff to you and you've completely ignored it, but called me out a few times instead, you and I just steer clear of one another? I'm not into drama, real life or internet.

Blessings to you!
How about you write me a private message if you have a 'problem' with me instead of creating drama publicly. This is embarrassing. And about calling you out - I didn't call you out on anything.

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#17 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 12:10 PM
 
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I'm sorry, OP, for the turn this thread has taken thanks to my comment, which I guess is offensive to MFQ. I thought we were just engaging in a discussion, but I was obviously wrong.

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#18 of 48 Old 10-01-2014, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have gotten a lot of criticism from people for not getting an ultrasound. People try to warn me of the problems that could arise or tell me stories of how ultrasounds "saved" their babies. I do believe there is an issue with it, esp with an OB. Luckily my midwives are completely supportive and if the heartbeat sounds off or I'm measuring small they will request an ultrasound. Most babies are born just fine with or without an ultrasound.

And plenty of issues are not even seen on an ultrasound. My mom had severe placenta previa with me and the ultrasound didn't show anything. She had major hemorrhaging and required a blood transfusion after I was delivered by csection at 36 weeks. The pictures never indicated that my placenta was extremely deformed or that she had placenta previa. Ultrasounds are not 100% full proof. I think it's good for reassurance but for my mom nothing could help her issue especially an ultrasound.

Also my friend was given an early ultrasound and the technician told her she had a bicornate uterus and totally freaked her out. She changed birthing centers and the new midwives said this was exactly the reason they don't recommend early routine ultrasounds. They can sometimes increase worry. Her uterus looked fine at 20 weeks. She delivered a healthy baby boy today totally natural.

I prefer to just believe everything is going perfectly until it seems something isn't. I also would rather spend my extra cash on a birthing class instead of a picture. But that's just me and I understand everyone doing it their way. I was really hoping to find more people who were going the no intervention route. It is hard to come by.
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#19 of 48 Old 10-02-2014, 02:11 AM
 
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I have gotten a lot of criticism from people for not getting an ultrasound. People try to warn me of the problems that could arise or tell me stories of how ultrasounds "saved" their babies. I do believe there is an issue with it, esp with an OB. Luckily my midwives are completely supportive and if the heartbeat sounds off or I'm measuring small they will request an ultrasound. Most babies are born just fine with or without an ultrasound.

And plenty of issues are not even seen on an ultrasound. My mom had severe placenta previa with me and the ultrasound didn't show anything. She had major hemorrhaging and required a blood transfusion after I was delivered by csection at 36 weeks. The pictures never indicated that my placenta was extremely deformed or that she had placenta previa. Ultrasounds are not 100% full proof. I think it's good for reassurance but for my mom nothing could help her issue especially an ultrasound.

Also my friend was given an early ultrasound and the technician told her she had a bicornate uterus and totally freaked her out. She changed birthing centers and the new midwives said this was exactly the reason they don't recommend early routine ultrasounds. They can sometimes increase worry. Her uterus looked fine at 20 weeks. She delivered a healthy baby boy today totally natural.

I prefer to just believe everything is going perfectly until it seems something isn't. I also would rather spend my extra cash on a birthing class instead of a picture. But that's just me and I understand everyone doing it their way. I was really hoping to find more people who were going the no intervention route. It is hard to come by.
I'm sorry to hear you've been facing so much criticism. Here in Sweden you wouldn't. They would still recommend the anatomic scan, but they wouldn't push you or criticise you. When I was 27 and was expecting my first baby, I had to fight to get the nuchal scan at 12 weeks - doctors were actually discouraging me from it because I was 'so young.'

In the US it seems to be a bit more heavy on ultrasounds and intervention. Again, sorry to hear that.

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#20 of 48 Old 10-02-2014, 02:07 PM
 
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You may be able to find more in another group on here. Maybe the home birth one?
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#21 of 48 Old 10-03-2014, 09:05 AM
 
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I apologize for taking so long to respond to you, Wilhelmina. I was unable to sign in for 2 days, due to the website issues.

I wanted to say that you are right, I should not have said anything to you, or, I should have PM'd you. Please accept my apology. It won't happen again. Take care.
@LizLamb , I apologize for my comments earlier on your thread, that were to Wilhelmina that were off-topic. I second the suggestion to try posting in the homebirth/birth and beyond forum. I am sure between homebirth mama's and UC'ers, you will find some great support of no doppler/ultrasound. I am sorry you are receiving hassle for a very personal choice that made sense for thousands of years before dopplers and ultrasounds!

Baby blessings to you all!

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#22 of 48 Old 10-04-2014, 09:39 AM
 
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I definitely think u/s are overused these days, and I had #1 an early u/s for dating (most accurate in 1st trimester) and then for #2 I do want a full anatomy scan because a big defect will likely show up there, and then I and/or surgeons can be prepared for something like spina bifida, a condition that will perhaps cause baby to be stillborn, etc.

Food for thought - one of my patients was followed by high-risk docs, had regular ultrasounds and a full anatomy scan, and the ultrasound tech missed that the baby was missing an arm. The parents didn't find out until the baby was born. They dealt with it very well, and bonded with baby through tears of confusion.

It just goes to show that modern obstetrics promises answers, but it can't always deliver. You have to expect the unexpected, and relinquish control over some things. As much as we want to know everything, we just can't! It's impossible.
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#23 of 48 Old 10-04-2014, 12:58 PM
 
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We will not be having any u/s during this pregnancy unless something comes up that indicates further investigation. I was given the choice to use the Doppler or wait until the heartbeat could be heard with a fetal stethoscope in a month or so, and I requested the Doppler. Not that I think it's necessary, but it makes me feel better after having 2 miscarriages.

In my last pregnancy, I consented to a non routine u/s because I was "over due" (I mean literally just a few days past 40 weeks). I really just wanted to comply as much as possible to prove baby was fine and avoid the push for induction. Well, scan showed that my amniotic fluid was low. Naturally all the medical professionals flipped and told me baby needed to be born RIGHT AWAY etc. etc. I didn't sense anything wrong, baby was moving just as he had been so I declined the induction but did agree to another u/s in a couple days to make sure everything was ok. Second u/s showed amniotic fluid had returned to normal and baby was fine! He was born naturally at 41+6. So for me the u/s did cause more issues than it solved.

To each their own. I think either choice is valid. What matter most is informed decisions!
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#24 of 48 Old 10-04-2014, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tm0sweet View Post
We will not be having any u/s during this pregnancy unless something comes up that indicates further investigation. I was given the choice to use the Doppler or wait until the heartbeat could be heard with a fetal stethoscope in a month or so, and I requested the Doppler. Not that I think it's necessary, but it makes me feel better after having 2 miscarriages.

In my last pregnancy, I consented to a non routine u/s because I was "over due" (I mean literally just a few days past 40 weeks). I really just wanted to comply as much as possible to prove baby was fine and avoid the push for induction. Well, scan showed that my amniotic fluid was low. Naturally all the medical professionals flipped and told me baby needed to be born RIGHT AWAY etc. etc. I didn't sense anything wrong, baby was moving just as he had been so I declined the induction but did agree to another u/s in a couple days to make sure everything was ok. Second u/s showed amniotic fluid had returned to normal and baby was fine! He was born naturally at 41+6. So for me the u/s did cause more issues than it solved.

To each their own. I think either choice is valid. What matter most is informed decisions!
I can understand having the doppler. It's seriously hard for me to even believe I'm pregnant sometimes since I haven't seen it, felt it(besides sickness and breast tenderness), or heard it. So I totally get it. Just trying to remind myself that for thousands of years women didn't have any other evidence than I do that they're expecting.

Blessings to you all and thank you for the responses. I will definitely be looking for the home birth group.
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#25 of 48 Old 10-06-2014, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tm0sweet View Post
We will not be having any u/s during this pregnancy unless something comes up that indicates further investigation. I was given the choice to use the Doppler or wait until the heartbeat could be heard with a fetal stethoscope in a month or so, and I requested the Doppler. Not that I think it's necessary, but it makes me feel better after having 2 miscarriages.

In my last pregnancy, I consented to a non routine u/s because I was "over due" (I mean literally just a few days past 40 weeks). I really just wanted to comply as much as possible to prove baby was fine and avoid the push for induction. Well, scan showed that my amniotic fluid was low. Naturally all the medical professionals flipped and told me baby needed to be born RIGHT AWAY etc. etc. I didn't sense anything wrong, baby was moving just as he had been so I declined the induction but did agree to another u/s in a couple days to make sure everything was ok. Second u/s showed amniotic fluid had returned to normal and baby was fine! He was born naturally at 41+6. So for me the u/s did cause more issues than it solved.

To each their own. I think either choice is valid. What matter most is informed decisions!
@tm0sweet wow, I admire you for going with your gut and not immediately having an induction, which is what the docs were probably telling you. Research has actually shown that amniotic fluid levels can fluctuate in as little as 12 hours. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Sometimes it's better not to know things, because they don't give an accurate picture of what's actually going on.
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#26 of 48 Old 10-06-2014, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LizLamb View Post
I can understand having the doppler. It's seriously hard for me to even believe I'm pregnant sometimes since I haven't seen it, felt it(besides sickness and breast tenderness), or heard it. So I totally get it. Just trying to remind myself that for thousands of years women didn't have any other evidence than I do that they're expecting.

Blessings to you all and thank you for the responses. I will definitely be looking for the home birth group.

DDC crashing. With my first pregnancy, I felt movement before I ever heard the heartbeat! Due to some traveling I didn't see my midwife in person for a couple of months in the first half of pregnancy (I did urine tests and blood pressure checks on my own, then we talked on the phone). One morning when I was just past 16 weeks, I was laying in bed thinking how crazy it was that I still had no actual evidence of a living being in there. Right then, I felt the baby kick for the first time! It was wild. And very cool
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#27 of 48 Old 10-21-2014, 12:15 AM
 
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Ddc crashing here to clear up a little misunderstanding. For those of you who are specifically avoiding ultrasound imaging of your baby to reduce your baby's exposure to sound waves, did you know that dopplers are far more powerful than ultrasounds? Ultrasounds shoot a pulsed wave at baby, while doppler sends a continuous beam at a higher frequency.

For those of you stating that "Ultrasounds are perfectly safe", did you know that ultrasounds and doppler have *never* been proven safe for use on babies in utero, and that there is much evidence pointing that ultrasounds and dopplers are not only unsafe, but very harmful? Remember, this is a newer technology under widespread use and that everyone used to claim that xrays were perfectly safe for unborn babies. We now know better.

Yes, sometimes ultrasound and doppler is warranted, but for those opting out of imaging and believing doppler to be less intrusive, well, that's just not how the technology works.

I am sharing this here to be helpful to those who are concerned, not out of snarkiness or to start a debate.
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#28 of 48 Old 10-21-2014, 08:25 AM
 
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I thought I might share my story just for interest and perspective.

I was exactly the same way in my last pregnancy: I wanted no more ultrasounds after the 12 week nuchal scan. I did not like the question mark over their 100% safety. I did not like bothering my baby. I was happy for the sex to be a surprise.

So I didn't have any more scans. I went on and had a very happy pregnancy.
I also substituted the doppler for the 'pinard' thing the midwife listens through.

Then at 32 weeks my midwife said I felt small, and said I should go for an ultrasound to check everything's ok.

That's where I discovered my baby was not going to live due to bilateral renal agenesis (BRA) a rare condition where the kidneys never formed.
Most women would discover this at their 20 week scan.

This is not meant to be a scaremongering story by any means. I don't regret the choices I made at all.
I am glad I did not have the 20 week scan, because I'd be in the same position as I was at 32 weeks - only - with further to go.
I carried my baby to term, best choice I ever made, and waited for labour to start naturally at 43 weeks, finding out the sex of my little boy at birth who was stillborn.

I mention my story simply to illustrate how my attitude has changed - but not from fear necessarily, or from feeling I did something wrong last time. Not at all.
Scans wouldn't have changed my baby's fate in my case, just the timings. Plus, the condition is so rare.
But in my new pregnancy now, I am happy to have more scans - in our case, at both 16 and 20 weeks to check renal system is developing.
(If, god forbid, it happened again - I think I have the spiritual strength and experience to know the 'right' way for me, and that would be carrying to term.)
And I want to find out the sex. My baby was referred to as 'it' for too long during that last 12 week period of carrying him to term.
My fears of our unborn being prematurely pink/blue gendered by relatives is least of my concerns now. ;-)

I feel as though the ambiguity of 100% ultrasound safety is not my major priority as it might have once been.
Most all women get ultrasounds, such a commonplace practise has not proven to have any adverse outcome and that satisfies me now. I have bigger fish to fry.
What I get in return - assurance of my baby's health - is far too great an opportunity to miss.
Plus, I really appreciate how ultrasound gives you a physical image of your baby in an experience that often feels so mysterious.
It motivates me to eat better, makes it feel more real (especially in the stages before you feel movement) and where I once considered that a luxury on the mother's part, I actually think it has benefits sheerly from that motivation of reminding you of the little person in there, dependent on your eating and wellbeing.

Of course, ultrasounds often give false info and wrong diagnoses. And can cause unnecessary anxiety and upset. But I see that as part and parcel of human error of the advantage of this modern technology, and would advocate that time, thoroughness and due caution is considered before anything is diagnosed or decided on behalf of the baby.
For me, it was a blessing. It gave me forewarning that my baby was not going to live.
I imagine sometimes having gone into labour without ever getting that 32 week scan. The shock nightmare of my baby not being alive. Wondering if I could have been my fault for homebirthing. And living in sheer panic for days and days until the autopsy results came back.
That is what women before ultrasound would have had to endure in my situation, so in that respect, despite my holistic pro-nature disposition on most things, I am so utterly thankful to modern technology for giving me such precise information about my baby and enabling me to make necessary preparation, and to begin my process of preliminary grieving.

Also, even though my last baby's condition was unpreventable and there was nothing to be done, I do consider that in other conditions, sometimes there are things you can do to help them.
What would I feel right now if I'd known that I could have helped my baby? The loss I went through was hard enough without adding my guilt into the equation.
Of course, the condition my baby had is VERY RARE, but, there are also many rare conditions. Who knows what's in store for any of us.
It must be considered here that my baby's condition led to outward clues that instigated the need for a scan (small for dates, and midwife could feel the absence of fluid). But some conditions might not give away such signs.

Yes, I believe we need to live in confidence not fear.
But for me, the pros of ultrasound far outweigh the cons, or vague suspicions. To put it into perspective, I could not tolerate the tiny 1% miscarriage risk in having something like amniocentesis, but with ultrasound when used sparingly and responsibly, there is no evidence substantial enough to convince me I am putting my little one in danger in any direct way.

At the least, I hope my perspective can maybe ease up the tension any of you ladies feel when you do get a scan or doppler.

Modern science is a funny thing. We need just the right amount according to our needs. Whilst I am so grateful for the 32 week scan, I rejected the hospital's suggestions on termination and birthing procedure. I birthed naturally at home (which seemed to kick up a fuss in the local medical community.) But I also knew I could go into hospital if I needed it. Seems as though it's misleading to try be black-and-white or sternly of one belief. This whole life seems to be about getting the right balance of everything!
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Mother to angel son E.G.L., our first child diagnosed with bilateral renal agenesis (classic Potters syndrome, no kidneys) at 32 weeks, carried to 43 weeks & stillborn at home Dec 2013. He continues to teach me lessons of love every single day. Pregnant with our expectant rainbow due April 2015!

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#29 of 48 Old 10-21-2014, 03:10 PM
 
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Corianderbells - thanks for sharing your perspective, the more info the easier it is for everyone to make their own decision of where the line in the sand is
Clovebucket - thank you for sharing your sad yet empowering story. Huge hugs on your loss, and huge admiration for your strength and perspective! I wish you nothing but ease with this pg. thank you again for sharing, I truly believe that each individuals needs are different, and only informed mothers can truly know where their boundaries lie.
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#30 of 48 Old 10-22-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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Corianderbells - thanks for sharing your perspective, the more info the easier it is for everyone to make their own decision of where the line in the sand is
Clovebucket - thank you for sharing your sad yet empowering story. Huge hugs on your loss, and huge admiration for your strength and perspective! I wish you nothing but ease with this pg. thank you again for sharing, I truly believe that each individuals needs are different, and only informed mothers can truly know where their boundaries lie.
Thank you, chuord!

Mother to angel son E.G.L., our first child diagnosed with bilateral renal agenesis (classic Potters syndrome, no kidneys) at 32 weeks, carried to 43 weeks & stillborn at home Dec 2013. He continues to teach me lessons of love every single day. Pregnant with our expectant rainbow due April 2015!
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