Anyone heard of the AUSSIE mama who caught at her own c-section??? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 03-16-2007, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know where I put the link, but do any of you recall a story about a Aussie mama who was determined to have as empowered a c-section as she could and actually worked with her ob to arrange to be able to catch the baby. There was a story and pics of this floating around a good while ago and I would love to have it again. As I recall she had heard about a UK doc working with women to do this so she got her doc to call him and find out more. Now it could be that I have the countries mixed up and it was a UK doc calling the AU doc, but anyway if you have seen the story it's sure to ring a bell. Thanks
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#2 of 32 Old 03-17-2007, 08:39 AM
 
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No, but that is cool! That mama was the first one to touch her baby.

I don't think it will catch on here because most doctors are control freaks. The sterile field may be an issue as well (for liability's sake). Providing that the woman is prepped properly, her hands aren't going to be any more germy than the doc's, but if an infection ensued you can bet they would point the finger at her.

Just my .02
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#3 of 32 Old 03-19-2007, 12:02 AM
 
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It's happened in a few countries. I hate it. More normalising and accepting of surgery IMO. If you really really need a c-sec it should be happening in a hurry with no frills. If you have time to do all that lifting and applauding the surgeon you probably didn't need the lifethreatening surgery in the first place.
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#4 of 32 Old 03-19-2007, 05:33 PM
 
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I agree and I don't. I would have given anything to know that my baby is being gently lifted from my womb. How scary it must be to have gloved hands yank and pull you out into the cold where there are blazing lights! I've seen pics of mamas who took pics of their c/s babies 1/2 in 1/2 out - a gentle c/s. So I think it is wonderful that someone is realizing that it affects the babies! My not-thinking midwife told me that they 'shoe-horned' dd out 'by the mouth' and I have nightmares about her pain and fear and confusion.

I agree that if there is a placental abruption, yes faster is better! However, if it is a matter of a baby who won't come down after 3-4 hours of pushing. Or a baby who's cord is wrapped and wrapped and can't fit through the pelvis, or just a trusting mama, like myself, with a footling breech baby, afraid of cord prolapse - GiVE us the soft, gentle, calm, quiet belly-birth, PLEASE!

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#5 of 32 Old 03-19-2007, 06:28 PM
 
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I'd've given anything to particiate in my dd's birth.

I've given this a lot of thought and if I hadn't been through it, I would be in the "this glorifies c/s" camp. But I don't believe that the mamas who are opting for c/s more-or-less casually are the types who are goingto want to reach into their own cut-open belly and bring the baby out. I think that this rather would give a little control back to those of us who were robbed of it by circumstances beyond our control. It would sure make the emotional healing easier if I had had ANYTHING to do with her birth.
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#6 of 32 Old 03-19-2007, 10:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JanetF View Post
It's happened in a few countries. I hate it. More normalising and accepting of surgery IMO. If you really really need a c-sec it should be happening in a hurry with no frills. If you have time to do all that lifting and applauding the surgeon you probably didn't need the lifethreatening surgery in the first place.
In my case there was no rush, but the c/s was a very needed and lifesaving procedure. I would have loved to participate more.

I REALLY needed a c/s and was glad that we had time to have some frivolous "frills" as you put it. My planned c/s went smoothly and calmly, however it needed to occur to save my DD's life.

There are such things as known medical conditions which make a c/s a live saving birth. There are times where a c/s is something which is known to be needed, is scheduled, planned, and accepted. Not all c/s are forced procedures, some are based on decisions made using the best available medical advice.


Please mind your judgement of all c/s. There are PLENTY of times that one is medically necessary and to have the mom more involved would be a very positive thing. Why must a c/s be rushed to be a medically necessary procedure?

I would like to know more about this. I have read about her and am interested in approaching my OB about this the next time.
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#7 of 32 Old 03-20-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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I also had a csection. And it was unneccessary as they get, but that is not the point. I would have cherised catching my son. Instead I didn't get to hold my son for two hours even though he was perfectly healthy. Not being able to catch him and actively participate in his birth caused emotional trauma that still hasn't gone away. My son still deserved a gentle birth.

And I truly think it is mean spirited to hope for otherwise. Let's instead hope for change so that unsuspecting mamas don't get the wool pulled over their heads and then on top of all that have a horrible birthing experience.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#8 of 32 Old 03-20-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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At the cesarean I was awake for - my son, breech - I can't imagine how I could have done this. They had two people like bracing against the table to get him out, not to mention the pain I was in. Digging around in my own cut-open guts and trying to yank out the baby sounds gruesome and horrifying. Not that it's a lot better to have someone else do it.
So does the surgeon get the baby most of the way out and then you grab it, or what?
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#9 of 32 Old 03-20-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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I read about it in an article about lotus birth, written by an australian, hmm, OB? Midwife? some kind of birth professional.

ETA: Actually, I'm not sure of that now. I google for it, and can't find it. But I remember reading the same thing.

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#10 of 32 Old 03-30-2007, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Im still looking for the story with pics as I recall it. I just wanted to pop back in and say that I do believe that the docs did assist in getting the baby out and helped the baby up onto the mamas tummy where she was ready to recieve. It was not as some pp's have described, she was not doubled over her own body fishing around inside her open guts.
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#11 of 32 Old 03-30-2007, 10:04 PM
 
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I remember the article, it was a birth story somewhere I think. Gentlebirth, maybe? I'd like the website, too. If I remember the Drs delivered to the baby's waist and then the mama pulled the baby out.

Katie, mama to Katherine 21, Christian 19, Johannah 17, Nicholas 12, Genevieve 10, Matthew 7, Andrew 11/16/09 10#6oz home waterbirth and madly in love with my husband, Scott
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#12 of 32 Old 03-30-2007, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JanetF View Post
It's happened in a few countries. I hate it. More normalising and accepting of surgery IMO. If you really really need a c-sec it should be happening in a hurry with no frills. If you have time to do all that lifting and applauding the surgeon you probably didn't need the lifethreatening surgery in the first place.
Some people really need csections for medical reasons and indeed plan them ahead of time. They are not necessarily urgent but still needed.

Also, any type of childbearing is life threatening. I really hate the tones of posts that diminish empowering women to have good births, no matter how they give birth.
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#13 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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interesting
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#14 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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#15 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 06:07 PM
 
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deleted because i can't make sense of what i'm trying to say.
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#16 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 06:13 PM
 
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I know cesareans are sometimes needed, though the recent rise in cesareans should put even those mothers who had necessary cesareans at alarm.

I think that the article bothers me, too, in that it is creating a highly invasive and dangerous procedure (cesarean birth) and trying to make it "natural". I'm totally for empowered cesarean birth, and definitely where the mom feels like she's an active participant and the baby is handled gently.

What concerns me is that the rate of cesareans are rising. By beautifying a surgical procedure/cesarean birth, the idea I fear is to make it more appealing to women so they comply without the usual concerns.

Does that make sense?

Partially, but I'm of the belief of any means to make birth more holistic is a very good thing. C/s are not going away no matter what some may want. I think that a doctor looking and researching a way to make the birth more gentle for the baby is a very positive thing for THAT BABY AND MOTHER.

Whatever the reason for the c/s... that baby was born by c/s. That baby deserves as gentle a birth as possible. I think that the doctor being willing to try to let the uterus do come contraction on the baby and let the lungs get compressed is a very positive step.

He is right most c/s are very fast. I went in right before 7:30, and was back in my room for the 8:00 news. I reguard my birth as a positive experience, but would like to have some of these additions the next time around.

I don't see this as minimizing home birth or natural birth. I see this as a huge positive step forward for belly birth.

I see any steps at making ANY birth more gentle as a very positive thing.
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#17 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post

Also, any type of childbearing is life threatening.
Sorry but nothing could be further from the truth.

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#18 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 06:33 PM
 
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Sorry but nothing could be further from the truth.
Actually ANY birth is life threatening. There are a lot of things we do to make them safer for mom and baby, but there are times things go wrong despite the best laid plans. Birth is life threatening, just as driving a car or getting on a plane is.
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#19 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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oh, wow!!! i cant ssee this working much if its an emergency, depending on the emergency situation, but i can see it in a planned csection and i think it would be empowering from how yall say it, and i see countless mamas saying they felt deprived of being involved in the birth, etc and well...this would make the mams very much involved and able to control SOMETHING out of this sometimes horrrifying procedure (emotionally, and sometimes physically though i know some mamas are fine with theirs, and accept it was needed, but some dont ever, and are scared emotionally, and if it acn help someone feel better about how their child/ren had to be born, i say go for it!! and i think thats so sweet for the mom to get to do that, vaginal or csection. i want to do that with mine!!
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#20 of 32 Old 03-31-2007, 07:24 PM
 
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Sorry but nothing could be further from the truth.
uhh..yeah, giving birth is one of the closest times in your life you will be to death without actually being there, unless you have a very peaceful, no straining, no physical pain/etc birth...it is a GREAT stress on your body, and you can very easily die in most circumstances throughout. hence why noone is NO risk, its low risk or high risk.
anytime you have the potential to bleed to death, youre risking your life, surgery, birth, or anything else.
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#21 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 01:17 AM
 
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I read that article about a year ago or so- it was in Byron Child magazine (now called Kindred magazine) which is an Australian NFL magazine. I just checked their website, and it isn't in their online archives, but I'm 99.9% sure that's where I read it- it was written by the mom. I can't seem to find the issue right now, and I guess I could be wrong. If I find it or a link later, I'll post again.
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#22 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 10:07 AM
 
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Statistically, birth is incredibly safe. You're not risking your life every time you give birth. The main thing that makes birth safer is the fact of modern sanitary conditions. Living in a 3rd world country makes birth riskier, but it's not BIRTH that's risky, but the conditions that surround it in those areas.

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#23 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 12:43 PM
 
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Statistically, birth is incredibly safe. You're not risking your life every time you give birth. The main thing that makes birth safer is the fact of modern sanitary conditions. Living in a 3rd world country makes birth riskier, but it's not BIRTH that's risky, but the conditions that surround it in those areas.
Yes, you are. Just like every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Statistically, it has gotten much safer to drive with saftey innovations in the cars and seatbelts and airbags, but people still die.

Same thing... we have made birth safer, but people still die. There are several mothers on here who have had stillbirths.

I don't want anyone to think I'm a gloom and doom gal toward birth. I do however feel that in order to have any conversation on birth we need to acknowledge the REAL risks involved in ANY birth, not just belly birth. All methods have their own risks and benefits.
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#24 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 01:16 PM
 
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I see any steps at making ANY birth more gentle as a very positive thing.

I agree with you completely. Which is why I originally deleted my post (you were just quick!). I can see both sides of the issue very clearly.
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#25 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 02:38 PM
 
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K, Wendy, in that case, just waking up in the morning is risking your life. You might trip and hit your head and die in your living room. You might fall in the shower and drown. You might fall down the stairs and break your neck. I never said nobody ever dies giving birth, but it's not RISKY. Death is rare. Knowing someone it has happened to doesn't mean it's more common, only that you FEEL like it's more common.

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#26 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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I agree with you completely. Which is why I originally deleted my post (you were just quick!). I can see both sides of the issue very clearly.
I can be pretty quick on the quote button

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K, Wendy, in that case, just waking up in the morning is risking your life. You might trip and hit your head and die in your living room. You might fall in the shower and drown. You might fall down the stairs and break your neck. I never said nobody ever dies giving birth, but it's not RISKY. Death is rare. Knowing someone it has happened to doesn't mean it's more common, only that you FEEL like it's more common.
Actually most heart attacks occur within 2 hours of waking up. Most accidents in the home occur in the bathroom. Most car accidents occur within 5 miles of your home.

EVERYTHING HAS RISK. How we chose to deal with these risks is how we go about living. The safest part of your vacation is the flight there. The most dangerous part is the car ride home. However there are still people very terrified of flying.

I disagree with you about birth. I believe it has risks, and by having risks it is risky. Homebirths are not risk free and neither are c/s. Babies and moms die on a daily basis during the process of birth. There are many things which can go wrong during birth. Hemorrhage, shoulder dystocia, infection, placental abruption, etc, etc, etc which can be fatal. Most of the time all goes well. Some times things don't ... and it is tragic.

I think your statement that "nothing could be further from the truth" to the statement that all birth is life threatening is a complete minimization of the seriousness and possible risks that birth is. Most of the time one can, with education, determine if a birth is likely to be more riskier than others, but unless they have a crystal ball, they have no way of guaranteeing that all will go well with that particular birth. Amniotic aneurysms have no warning from what I learned, for example.

The point that is trying to be made here is that all births are risky, but so is the rest of life. We mitigate risk by being educated, wearing seatbelts, washing our hands, cooking our food to the appropriate tempature. We live with risk every day, including in birth.
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#27 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 10:30 PM
 
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I thought during surgery most people have their arms out in a T-like position? Or am I thinking of surgery under general anesth? I've never had a c-s.

Personally the actual logistics of catching your own baby via c-s baffles me. It just seems like a woman who is flat on her back, with an incision that is really low... I just can't see how it would work.

I am in the camp who thinks birth is as safe as life gets. Some people might say life is really unsafe -- what with the risk of waking up and having a heart attack, and the risk of going on vacation and getting into a car accident on the way home or whatever. I've never thought I was close to death when I've given birth. I've never thought a client was close to death when attending a birth. And I've seen some births that were less-than-ideal! I don't think I could be a doula, and a woman who supports birth and the midwifery model of care, if I thought birth was unsafe.

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#28 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 10:50 PM
 
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I thought during surgery most people have their arms out in a T-like position? Or am I thinking of surgery under general anesth? I've never had a c-s.

Personally the actual logistics of catching your own baby via c-s baffles me. It just seems like a woman who is flat on her back, with an incision that is really low... I just can't see how it would work.

I am in the camp who thinks birth is as safe as life gets. Some people might say life is really unsafe -- what with the risk of waking up and having a heart attack, and the risk of going on vacation and getting into a car accident on the way home or whatever. I've never thought I was close to death when I've given birth. I've never thought a client was close to death when attending a birth. And I've seen some births that were less-than-ideal! I don't think I could be a doula, and a woman who supports birth and the midwifery model of care, if I thought birth was unsafe.
In the US many hospitals strap mother's arms down during csections in the T shape as your describe, however you can tell them no that you do not want this done. For my last three csections I was not strapped down to the OR table.

Also, for my past csection, ten days ago, I was actually elevated some and not completely flat on my back. I can definitely see how one might be able to pull their own baby from their incision site if they were at the right elevation and had long enough arms.

As to birth being risky -- I agree with Wendy. I know women who have died in childbirth, including homebirth and csections. Sure the risks are low, but there is still a risk. Also the percentage of dying during or after a csection is still extremely low though often blown out of proportion here - 4 in 10,000 for first time csection and 2 in 10,000 for repeat csections. (this is from ICAN) Vaginal births are 1 in 10,000 in regards to maternal death -- while lower, its not all that much lower. It still carries risk.
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#29 of 32 Old 04-01-2007, 11:14 PM
 
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As for the T position... One arm was out as a L, but it was not strapped down. That arm had the blood pressure cuff on it.

My other arm, my DH held my hand. Not tied down. My head was elevated a bit as well. I'd have to lay down and figure it out, but I bet it could be done.
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#30 of 32 Old 04-02-2007, 12:30 PM
 
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Nobody that I know of has ever said birth has no risk. I'm not even sure you how you ladies are coming up with that from what I said. I stand by my statement that birth is safe and death during birth for either mom or baby in sanitary conditions is very unlikely. Many of the complications mentioned are made more common by medical management, not by the process itself. I agree that birth is risky in the same way life is: there are no guarantees. But it's safer than a lot of activities people in engage in freely. Millions of years of evolution to ensure the propagation of the species has created a process that works beautifully when left alone most of the time.

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