Ralph Nader: Useful Idiot? - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 28 Old 07-07-2004, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting column by Joe Conason:

"Yet although the prospects for Mr. Nader are quickly shrinking, his would-be rescuers are already revealing themselves. The new Naderites include the strange Manhattan therapy cult that now dominates the Reform Party, which will provide ballot access in some states after endorsing him in a teleconference call last May. He can also count on at least one group of activists who are absolutely determined to see him succeed: right-wing Republicans.

"Tens of thousands of dollars from major Bush donors are pouring into Mr. Nader’s coffers, and he is using that money to pay for petition signatures that will get him on the ballot in swing states. The American Prospect reports that earlier this year, Mr. Nader’s aides solicited a California company that usually performs such tasks for Republican candidates."

More here: http://www.observer.com/pages/conason.asp

BTW, here's the low-brow cheap shot Nader flung to former backer Moore:

"Nader wrote another open letter, to the ample documentary filmmaker. In it, Nader, a lean 6-foot-4, 190 pounds, said Moore's Naderite friends are "trim and take care of themselves. Girth they avoid," he said."

From here: http://www.ldnews.com/cda/article/pr...250589,00.html

and Nader's snippy letter:
http://www.votenader.com/why_ralph/index.php?cid=83

Nice. Harkins back to Nader's "I don't do gonad politics!" crack about gay civil rights a few years back.
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#2 of 28 Old 07-07-2004, 02:36 PM
 
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Thanks RD for the links! As I've said before, I used to respect Nader, but no more. Personally, I think he's lining his own pockets with the Rep.'s $$...
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#3 of 28 Old 07-07-2004, 09:33 PM
 
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Pork: the other white meat?
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#4 of 28 Old 07-09-2004, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Michigan Republicans gather names for Nader
"Michigan Republicans are helping gather signatures to place independent Ralph Nader on the presidential ballot in the battleground state, irritating Democrats who accuse the GOP of trying to pull votes away from candidate John Kerry."

More here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...855EDT1146.DTL
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#5 of 28 Old 07-09-2004, 01:37 AM
 
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Pork: the other white meat?
Nah, pork is a verb.

It occurred to me, a while ago, that Nader will probably pull out of the race before November, and a lot of Nader voters will be forced to vote Democrat instead, which will only add to the margin of the neocons' ignominious defeat.
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#6 of 28 Old 07-09-2004, 01:53 AM
 
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I had that same thought! I think I even posted it on another Nader bashing thread!

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#7 of 28 Old 07-09-2004, 01:55 AM
 
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ignominious

Man! What a great word!









Love that word!
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#8 of 28 Old 07-12-2004, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting rundown at Salon on the Dean v. Nader joust, including this:

"But the most entertaining -- and revealing -- moments came during Dean's repeated hammering of Nader for the perceived compromises he was making to maintain his precarious candidacy. Again, he returned to the issue of Nader's support in Oregon from Republican-leaning religious conservative groups.

"It is true," said Dean, "that the Oregon Family Council, which is a virulently antigay right-wing group, called up all their folks and tried to get them to go to the Oregon convention to sign your petition. I don't think that's the way to change the party ... The way to change this country is not to get into bed with right-wing antigay groups to try to get yourself on the ballot. That can't work."

"Nader's response was to smear Dean as guilty of smearing. "You know what a legitimate smear is, Howard? It's a smear, premeditated and known. We don't even know this group. Don't try and tar us with this." Dean urged Nader to simply renounce the Oregon group.

"I'll renounce them," Nader said, quickly shifting the focus of the debate. "Do you renounce Pfizer and Chevron and other companies who were criminally convicted of crimes by the federal government for giving millions of dollars in the year 2000 to the Democratic Party?"

"Dean replied that the need to institute public financing of political campaigns is one reason he ran for president and another reason for progressives to support Kerry. "It's not going to happen under George Bush." Then, thrusting again at Nader's soft underbelly, Dean asked him to return the money his campaign had received from Richard Egan, a Bush fundraiser from Massachusetts who served as Bush's ambassador to Ireland.

"I wasn't aware he was a corporate criminal," Nader said in defense of Egan. "He's an American citizen. He might be a Republican, but he just happens to believe in civil liberties, maybe. I don't even know the man. But Republicans are human beings, too." At this, Nader's supporters applauded vigorously, a moment that crystallized how unmoored from principle the consumer advocate's movement has become.

Indeed.

Full story here: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...ate/print.html
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#9 of 28 Old 07-12-2004, 06:13 PM
 
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Wow. I can't believe Nader said that. "'Unmoored'" indeed!
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#10 of 28 Old 07-12-2004, 06:21 PM
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I watched Nadar in an interview the other day and he said the democrats are going to try what ever it takes to keep him out of the presidential race. It's to bad because it would be nice to have more than two canidates.
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#11 of 28 Old 07-12-2004, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There are, at least, three other parties, namely the Libertarian, Green and the Constitution parties, fielding candidates for president and vp. Note that Nader is running with no party affiliation.
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#12 of 28 Old 07-13-2004, 12:45 AM
 
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It occurred to me, a while ago, that Nader will probably pull out of the race before November, and a lot of Nader voters will be forced to vote Democrat instead, which will only add to the margin of the neocons' ignominious defeat.
If that happens, I will personally appologize. That said, I don't believe it. Nader has morphed into something totally different than the consumer advocate I admired.

 

 

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#13 of 28 Old 07-13-2004, 01:01 AM
 
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Yep. What she said.
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#14 of 28 Old 07-13-2004, 09:16 PM
 
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I tend to think (and hope) that Nader is looking ahead to future elections, when it may be more viable for a third party to get elected -- running in this race to raise issues, join the debates, etc, but will *hopefully* pull out before the election. I truly believe that one of the biggest problems with gov. in the US is the two party system, and Nader may be the one to help change that...hopefully in 2008/12, because I just don't think he could pull it off this year.
Why, though, would republicans who would vote for Nader be forced to vote democrat if he pulled out? I think they'd just go back to Bush unless Nader was willing to strongly back Kerry/Edwards in the event that he did pull out.

We're Tiffani , Mark , Lucy (9/99) , Dexter (8/01) ,and Zachary Marvin (3/07) and Naomi Rose (6/09), home 11/10, by way of Ugandan adoption.

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#15 of 28 Old 07-13-2004, 11:09 PM
 
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I think the reference is to the fact that more Nader voters would vote Kerry than Bush (if they didn't vote Nader).

I have no faith that Nader will prematurely pull out I think it is all about ego for him at this point. If he *really*, IMO, wanted to have actual representation he would have been pushing to change the electoral college system to *at least* a proportional representation system (vs winner take all like it is in, what, 48 states).

 

 

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#16 of 28 Old 07-14-2004, 11:12 AM
 
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Tiffani, if that were the case then why doesn't he do this at the states level? Why start at the top? If there were more states with independent candidates in Senate, House and Governorship races this would bubble up. Why not start with getting more people involved in voting - say pushing for a voting day holiday, or other things that can be done to genuinely enfranchise more people?

Starting at the top won't work without an independent base underneath. Let's say Nader did win - he has no base in Congress. Who would he appeal to in order to get his agenda through?

This tells me it's just Nader getting his 15 minutes of fame. I no longer think, though, that he's working for any meaningful reform of the election system. There are states that have done meaningful reform, and it *always* starts at the local level. I'm sure he knows this, having done work w/the Greens.
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#17 of 28 Old 07-14-2004, 12:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagomom
This tells me it's just Nader getting his 15 minutes of fame. I no longer think, though, that he's working for any meaningful reform of the election system. There are states that have done meaningful reform, and it *always* starts at the local level. I'm sure he knows this, having done work w/the Greens.
ITA!
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#18 of 28 Old 07-14-2004, 03:12 PM
 
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Originally posted by TiredX2: (and could someone please explain how to insert quotes the right way?)
I have no faith that Nader will prematurely pull out

And here I was trying so hard not to make a joke about the conception of my two children with all the "pulling out" talk...


I don't necessarily have "faith" that he will use the withdrawl method either (not successfully, anyway ), but I hate to believe it's just an ego trip for him -- I guess time will tell...

edited to say that any method that proves useful for eliciting change in the two-party system, whether it's grass-roots or revolutionary, is a-ok in my book. I'm glad Nader is still on the scene, hope he gets into the debates, and I guess I do have faith that if it seems like a close race he'll pull out before the election.

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#19 of 28 Old 07-14-2004, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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W T F.....

"Ralph: “We're not going to play the facist game of the two-party monopoly barricading itself from any competition, with all kinds of statutory obstruction that cost third parties immense time and money if they can surmount them. This is a dictatorship, which you don't seem to understand.”"

More here (get a day pass at Salon by viewing short ad): http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...all/print.html

Also, Nader angers CBC with demand for apology

“He ain’t playing with a full deck,” said Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.), a member of the caucus and vice chairman of the Democratic caucus."

“I don’t think he gets it,” said Rep. Albert Wynn (D-Md.)."
http://thehill.com/news/071404/nader.aspx
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#20 of 28 Old 07-17-2004, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Now the Guardian is having a go at Nader:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselection...262869,00.html

"The biggest PR boost is coming from a man who, more than any other single person, represents all that Ralph Nader has opposed in his career as an advocate for the little guy against big business: media behemoth Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch's Harper Collins launched Nader's The Good Fight the same week that he officially kicked off his presidential campaign. Harper Collins' vaunted marketing machine has been busy raising Nader's profile on the book tour circuit ever since."

That's right. Mr Anti Multinationals' recent book is published from the same multinational that gives us Fox News. Hmmm, what's that 'H' word I'm thinking of? Hmmmmmm.
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#21 of 28 Old 07-17-2004, 08:21 AM
 
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In the phone conversation with Salon.com editor David Talbot, he actually defends Murdoch as being less evil than the others (therefore justifying, I guess, his publishing under Murdoch):

"But to follow your principle would be for me to say, "I don't want anything to do with NBC. It's owned by a pig company called GE. And I certainly don't want anything to do with MSNBC because it's owned by both GE and Microsoft." They are worse than Rupert Murdoch, and I will tell you why -- Rupert Murdoch does not produce death-dealing weapons and sell them to dictatorships.

Talbot: No, he just supports and promotes those dictatorships.

Nader: Yes, but there's quite a difference isn't there, between bullets and support? He doesn't build nuclear plants; he doesn't pollute the Hudson River.

Talbot: He just played the leading role in creating the propagandistic atmosphere for the war in Iraq. His media company played and continues to play that role. You know that, Ralph. It's just disingenuous of you to downplay what Rupert Murdoch is all about. "

Well, then that makes it ok I guess...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...all/index.html
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#22 of 28 Old 07-17-2004, 09:04 PM
 
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:Puke

 

 

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#23 of 28 Old 07-18-2004, 02:32 AM
 
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Ugh, he's starting to sound like a more cohernt form of GWB...Splitting hairs about how one of the main powerbrokers of information cheerleading the bomb builders isn't the same as being the bomb builder.... how can anyone respect this man anymore?
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#24 of 28 Old 07-20-2004, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Nader accepts GOP signatures for ballot

"In an about face, Ralph Nader decided Monday to accept thousands of petition signatures collected by Michigan Republicans if that's the only way he can qualify for the state's presidential ballot.

"Last Thursday, Michigan Republican Party officials submitted 43,000 signatures -- far more than the 30,000 needed -- to ensure Nader could appear on the ballot as an independent. Republicans began collecting signatures after it appeared that Nader might not get on the ballot as the Reform Party's candidate for president...."

More here: http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/...der/print.html

Barbara Ehreneich makes her point here:
It's Over, Ralph

"You've changed too. If the first time was tragedy — and I will admit now, with hindsight, that it was — the second time is predictably farce. Maybe those years spent wandering in the wilderness — disdained by Democrats, excluded by arcane ballot access rules — have taken their toll, because there's been something grotesque about your campaign from the start, when you advised left-wing critics, in words no one knew your vocabulary included, to "relax and rejoice" in your run. This while casualties mounted in Iraq and civil liberties evaporated here.

"In 2000, you could at least claim to be doing it all for the Green Party. This summer you didn't even bother to drop by its convention. You were in Portland, Ore., addressing an audience of 1,100 (you got almost 10 times as many there four years ago) that was heavily larded with conservatives eager to get you on the ballot to suck votes from John Kerry. When Howard Dean confronted you about your conservative "supporters," you lamely observed that "Republicans are human beings too.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/18/op...rint&position=

It is beyond me how any progressive in 2004 can pull the lever for this guy.
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#25 of 28 Old 07-21-2004, 04:13 PM
 
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Just saw this today:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/nad...s_campaign.php

Quote:
Besides activists, Republicans are deploying money behind Nader. On July 9, when the San Francisco Chronicle reported that one of 10 big Nader donors had also donated to Bush and the Republicans, Nader's vice presidential running mate Peter Camejo told a Chronicle reporter that the campaign would consider returning money from Republicans hoping to help Bush against Kerry: "We don't want that money."

Days later, Camejo flip-flopped, telling the same reporter: "It is conceivable that pro-Bush, pro-Republicans believe we have a right to be on the ballot. We will not establish lie detector tests for people who give us money."

...For many of us inspired by Nader's 2000 campaign, it was easy four years ago to dismiss the charge that "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" as a Democratic defense of the corrupt status quo. Today, the sad reality on the ground is that a vote for Nader in these swing states is a vote for Bush's money, his organization, his right-wing activists.
Yep.
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#26 of 28 Old 08-03-2004, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#27 of 28 Old 08-03-2004, 06:22 PM
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I think this is kinda funny.

I know many conservatives who voted for Ross Perot in 1992 to "protest" against the First senior Bush presidency.

And with that funny looking third party candidate....and even because of him....we got eight years of Bill and Hill.

If Ralph has ANYTHING to do with W being re-elected, I say go Ralph GO!. I actually think he is one of the few politicians in the country who has a platform that he has stuck to for 30 years, based on consumer rights. He has fearlessly fought against big dumb corporations for the little guy, and he is true to his principles. I also appreciate that he is fearless about speaking his mind.

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#28 of 28 Old 08-07-2004, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Nader and his "principles" continue to amaze...

Nader's ballot hopes hinge on state's Greens

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

"Officials in the Nader campaign, citing the difficulty and cost in gathering signatures in the nation's most populous state, said they suspended their signature-gathering efforts last week and did not expect to meet the requirements for the California ballot.

"But in a move that has caused a deep rift in the state Green Party, backers of Nader and his vice presidential candidate, longtime Green Party member Peter Camejo, are now trying to get the ticket on the California ballot under the auspices of the Greens.

"They are aggressively trying to convene an emergency state Green Party assembly to vote on whether to formally nominate Nader and Camejo as the party ticket in California. That would put the state party at odds with the national Greens, who rebuffed Nader earlier this year and nominated activist David Cobb and Patricia LaMarche as their presidential ticket. "

More here:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

So there you have it folks. More proof that Nader is in it for himself and doesn't give a rip about building any viable progressive 3rd party. I cannot fathom any right thinking progressive casting a ballot for this guy. Anyone who does is a dope.
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