Mothering Forums

Mothering Forums (https://www.mothering.com/forum/)
-   War and Politics (https://www.mothering.com/forum/220-war-politics/)
-   -   Bush lied - Kids Died or Wilson lied - Liberals are.... (https://www.mothering.com/forum/220-war-politics/175142-bush-lied-kids-died-wilson-lied-liberals.html)

UC MOM 07-28-2004 08:49 PM

The whole bush lied, kids died mantra of the left has got me trying to come up with some pithy point about wilson.....


let's try a couple.....

Wilson lied.....Liberals are gullible

no, doesn't work, has to rhyme in a catchy way that can be yelled at the new york times building...


Wilson lied......liberals SHOULD be fit to be tied.....


better, it rhymes... but sort of long.....

Hummmmm anyone want to help?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jul9.html

UC MOM 07-29-2004 03:18 PM

Wow, the silence is defening....

How about this one....

Wilson lied and his wife really did send him to Niger with an appeasement agenda in mind, and was rightfully disciplined for it by the CIA, and will probably face criminal charges..... and he now has no credibility.

Wonder what would have happened if Wilson had been a republican???

Hmmmmmm

Jenny

sleeping queen 07-29-2004 03:24 PM

UCmom I hate to correct, but Bush didn't lie. He was acting on intelligence information provided to him as was our allies. I guess the dems like the bush lie mantra it helps deflect how many of them voted to go to war. So actually John Kerry is lied to because he agreed to go to war using the same information

RowansDad 07-29-2004 03:27 PM

How about the sad state that the Administration apologist are playing the sad game of distraction from the real issue, whether someone in it committed a felony and exposed a CIA agent.

Consider:
Iraq and Niger: A Twisted, Tangled Tale

"OPEN QUESTIONS. And in a July 6, 2003, New York Times op-ed piece, Wilson said his trip disproved the notion that Iraq was trying to obtain nukes. In fact, according to the committee report, Wilson's report said the Prime Minister of Niger confirmed a separate 1999 meeting with Iraqi officials and that the Nigerian leader believed the Iraqis wanted to buy uranium.

"Wilson himself puts all of this in a very different light. He told me his critics are lifting half of a sentence out of his recently published book and ignoring the second half. He wrote that other than serving as a conduit for the agency, Plame had nothing to do with the trip. So he was acknowledging some involvement on her part but suggesting that she wasn't responsible for his assignment.

"That, I'm reliably told, is true. The CIA is unclear about the sequence of events that led to her e-mail but holds out the possibility Plame did not initiate the discussion."

More here:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...407299001db056

UC MOM 07-29-2004 03:29 PM

Sleeping queen,

I know bush didn't lie, I was being sarchastic.

I was using a term that has been yelled across the fruited plain every time republicans try to defend the president in regards to Iraq.

Wilson has been the only person the past few months who has been proven to knowingly lied about something in regards to the WMD debate.

But none of the lefties want to talk about that, I wonder why not???

Jenny

UC MOM 07-29-2004 03:32 PM

[QUOTE=RowansDad]How about the sad state that the Administration apologist are playing the sad game of distraction from the real issue, whether someone in it committed a felony and exposed a CIA agent.

Yes, exposed a CIA agent who was his WIFE and who he lied about. She directly requested that he be given that mission, and he LIED about it.

The new york times has to spin and spin and spin.. it is all they can do at this point.

Again, wonder what would have happened if the shoe was on the other foot?

Screaming headlines from sea to shining sea....

veganmamma 07-29-2004 03:41 PM

UC MOM, I think people aren't avoiding the topic so much as you and your style of posting. Most liberals and conservatives are able to get along here and disagree on politics and even argue them without getting so confrontational. For example, Nursing Mother. I cannot STAND her politics. I disagree with her on probably a majority of the things she posts here. Stuff about married relationships, politics, etc. and yet I love NM. I would have her over to dinner in a second. When I first came to MDC I didn't think I'd ever like her or want to be friends with her, but I do like her, and if I lived near her, I'd want to hang out. I wonder if maybe you oughtn't look at her posting history and see why she can disagree with SOOoo many people here and still be so well loved.

ChasingPeace 07-29-2004 03:43 PM

I'm confused. Didn't the Bush administration admit that the line about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger should never have been in Bush's state of the union speech because it wasn't true?

UC MOM 07-29-2004 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace
I'm confused. Didn't the Bush administration admit that the line about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger should never have been in Bush's state of the union speech because it wasn't true?


In regard to confusion, please refer to rowans dads article,


if you would like An articulate, funny, in your face, and yes, completely truthful and factual insight to this whole thing go here.....


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=39451

And if you want to get the conservative take on this whole CONFUSING mess which the liberal press just can't seem to get a grip on, just type the words Wilson LIED into your google search engine....conservatives have been chatting about it for two weeks.

Jenny

Gorzong 07-29-2004 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace
I'm confused. Didn't the Bush administration admit that the line about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Niger should never have been in Bush's state of the union speech because it wasn't true?
I think UCMOM is trying to say that Wilson lied about other things. Namely:

1) Aparently his wife had more to do with him being choosen to go to Niger in the first place then he let on in an interview.

2) He also lied about disproving the Iraq-Niger uranium thing by noting the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' on the fake papers. Which aparently he mever saw.

3) The president of Niger was approached by someone claiming to be from Iraq supposedly trying to buy uranium.

So he did probably lie about some things, but really, it's much different to lie about these things then saying something like: We're in imminent danger from Iraq and have to attack right now or else terrorists will bring bio and nuclear weapons over here and kill lots of people. When apparently there really aren't any WMDs, or any imminent threat from Iraq.

Liam.

ChasingPeace 07-29-2004 04:11 PM

Well my question was rhetorical, but thanks for your replies (except for the Ann Coulter link--really, truthful and factual? Give me a break!) All I meant was how does this change anything? Bush still relied on false information to lead us into war.

AmyB 07-29-2004 04:17 PM

How about reading what Joe Wilson has to say about the GOP smear campaign against him before trying to think up silly slogans:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072204K.shtml

--AmyB

RowansDad 07-29-2004 04:36 PM

[QUOTE=UC MOM]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowansDad
How about the sad state that the Administration apologist are playing the sad game of distraction from the real issue, whether someone in it committed a felony and exposed a CIA agent.
Hmmm, nowhere in the Washington Post article does it say "directly requested that he be given that mission". From what I've read of the Commission's report, it doesn't come to that conclusion either. Why are you stating this? The recent Business Week article that I linked above notes otherwise. Are you fibbing or simply mistaken?

In respect to the Post article, consider:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...son/print.html

In particular:

"The Post article also contained one acknowledged error: In trying to build a case that Wilson's Niger trip had actually bolstered the administration's claims, Schmidt wrote that Wilson had told the CIA that Iraq had tried to buy 400 tons of uranium from Niger in 1998. In fact, it was Iran that Wilson said had tried to make the purchase, as the Senate report states.The Post ran a correction."

Yikes! Susan Schmidt has NOT had a good track record since the Iraq debacle. Recall that she screwed up the Jessica Lynch/fightin' chick story royally.

I find it somewhat amusing, and kinda pathetic, that conservatives are all abuzz over Wilson's alleged lying. Given the fact that in the run up to the war we told by Cheney that Saddam “has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons”, that the Administration knew where the WMDs were (see Rummy rope-a-dope here http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/11/274695.shtml here) along with being treated to the "mushroom cloud" inference and "45 minutes notice" etc. etc. and no weapons were found, Dubya Inc. were left to yapping about WMD programs and and David Kay has said give up the "delusion hope" that Iraq had WMD when it was invaded (see http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...elligence_dc_1), I guess i'd be desperately clinging to this matter as well.

Marlena 07-29-2004 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorzong
So he did probably lie about some things, but really, it's much different to lie about these things then saying something like: We're in imminent danger from Iraq and have to attack right now or else terrorists will bring bio and nuclear weapons over here and kill lots of people. When apparently there really aren't any WMDs, or any imminent threat from Iraq.

Liam.
Bingo. The "lies of Wilson" thing is such a tempest in a teacup. The Bush/Cheney administration's convenient stretchings of the truth, lies, and criminal acts, OTOH, defy comprehension in their enormity and the ramifications they've had on innocent lives, the good reputation of this country, and our constitutional rights.

mama ganoush 07-29-2004 06:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeping queen
UCmom I hate to correct, but Bush didn't lie. He was acting on intelligence information provided to him as was our allies. I guess the dems like the bush lie mantra it helps deflect how many of them voted to go to war. So actually John Kerry is lied to because he agreed to go to war using the same information
Bush got the intelligience he ordered, as many in the intelligience community have testified. Even if that "intelligience" was forged.

Meiri 07-29-2004 08:05 PM

Where I see the lies is not in the original statements made based on the then not known to be flawed intelligence.

The lies are being told now, now that the facts are known: no WMD's, no uranium, no working links with Al Qaeda, etc. Yet Cheney is still saying these things Are true.

Tell me something, if a murderer/criminal knocks on your door and you don't answer it, do you have a relationship with him?

mama ganoush 07-29-2004 09:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by veganmamma
UC MOM, I think people aren't avoiding the topic so much as you and your style of posting. Most liberals and conservatives are able to get along here and disagree on politics and even argue them without getting so confrontational. For example, Nursing Mother. I cannot STAND her politics. I disagree with her on probably a majority of the things she posts here. Stuff about married relationships, politics, etc. and yet I love NM. I would have her over to dinner in a second. When I first came to MDC I didn't think I'd ever like her or want to be friends with her, but I do like her, and if I lived near her, I'd want to hang out. I wonder if maybe you oughtn't look at her posting history and see why she can disagree with SOOoo many people here and still be so well loved.

In much agreement, Nursing Mother rocks the house!!! even if her house tilts far more to the right than mine.

veganmamma 07-30-2004 02:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nursing Mother
Ahhh....and veganmomma, I'd come if you invited me too.





I'd like to join in the convo, but have limited time today.....just lurking
Well when I'm near you, maybe I can come over and cook for you. All we'll talk about... gardening or crafts or something. :LOL

wolfie 07-30-2004 08:25 AM

How about Bush is a liar? or Bush is a hypocrite? or Bush lied and men and women died? How about Bush Lied and Cheney's haliburton made billions?
Ok
How about Bush lied and got dental work done while Kerry Volunteered ,after graduating college, to go to the front lines of Vietnam and fought in the war?
How about this...it is time for a change? enough with the lying!

RachelGS 07-30-2004 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfie
enough with the lying!
Agreed! But also, enough with this thread. It's just dressed-up trolling.

veganmamma 07-30-2004 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGS
Agreed! But also, enough with this thread. It's just dressed-up trolling.

MamaAllNatural 07-30-2004 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelGS
Agreed! But also, enough with this thread. It's just dressed-up trolling.
:trollicon

Clara 08-01-2004 12:49 AM

it is provacative, but please see for yourself:

Jeff Gannon is a very important source because he actually interviewed Wilson and is involved in the whole scandal and has demanded an apology:

http://www.jeffgannon.com/

"A memo written by an INR (Intelligence and Research) analyst who made notes of the meeting at which Wilson was asked to go to Niger sensed that something fishy was going on.... Novak’s column 15 months later only confirmed what some already knew: Valerie Plame, a CIA employee had actively promoted him for the task....

I believe Plame was exposed at this point - far sooner than the timeline Wilson suggests...

TN: Did your wife suggest you for the mission?

Wilson: No. The decision to ask me to go out to Niger was taken in a meeting at which there were about a dozen analysts from both the CIA and the State Department."

I am not hungry and I am not of that species anyway--just want to point out Wilson's lies for what they are (no one else's to stay on topic).

Thank you for reading.

RowansDad 08-01-2004 02:29 PM

Oh brother. Give it up! Please! This is embarassing!

"The fuss is largely irrelevant. Even if the Niger incident should prove belatedly true, it didn't amount to an imminent danger to the United States. As best anyone can tell, the alleged weapons threats just aren't there.

"That's the administration's central embarrassment, but perhaps not the last tied to this issue. A criminal probe into the leaking of Plame's identity continues."

More here:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printe..._wilsoned.html

Look,even if Wilson "lied" as Gannon et al. suggests, it does NOT change the fact that Dubya Inc. ginned up the reasons to go to war with Iraq that now has us in a involved in a disaster that has effected any future threats to this country, by making any diplomatic overtures suspect (especially as long as the current administration is in office) and by weakening our overstretched military so much that were calling up 50 plus year olds (see http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...072904,00.html) and only doing half-assed jobs in Iraq AND
Afghanistan.

It is beyond me how hawks that applauded this war with Iraq can be happy with the flat-out negligent way Dubya Inc. and Pentagon have planned and prosectuted this adventure. Pundits now yammering about Wilson's "lies" are merely trying to distract those who fell for the party line in the first place.

Clara 08-01-2004 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowansDad
Couldn't get the link to work...said "Illegal referrer."

RowansDad 08-01-2004 04:09 PM

Try the following link to the Seattle Post-Intelligencier's editorial page:

Spinning 16 words into basis for war
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printe..._wilsoned.html

If it still doesn't work, you can access via http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/ ank check the above headline.

Also, recent news on the forged Niger documents:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc..._01.php#003235

Clara 08-02-2004 01:42 AM

Embarrassing, for who? I find the whole situation enlightening. Another article to share:

http://www.command-post.org/oped/2_archives/013490.html

"So - Wilson benefitted from a little nepotism. His wife got him an all-expenses-paid little excursion to Niger. And, to make it better, he got a chance to throw mud at the Bush Administration - which was clearly not liked by Mr. Wilson and Ms. Plame from the get-go. As the article makes clear, Ms. Plame had pre-judged the uranium sales story before she even sent her hubby - she pre-judged it as “this crazy report.”

In this context, if a “Senior Administration Official” let it be known that Wilson jetted off to Africa to sip sweet tea because his wife got him the gig … they were right to do so. The fact that Wilson’s wife got him the gig - and the fact that Wilson’s wife pre-judged the whole purpose of the trip as a “crazy report” - make it crystal clear that Wilson’s trip had little value (to put it mildly)."

captain optimism 08-02-2004 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara
"So - Wilson benefitted from a little nepotism. His wife got him an all-expenses-paid little excursion to Niger. And, to make it better, he got a chance to throw mud at the Bush Administration - which was clearly not liked by Mr. Wilson and Ms. Plame from the get-go. As the article makes clear, Ms. Plame had pre-judged the uranium sales story before she even sent her hubby - she pre-judged it as “this crazy report.”
An all expenses paid excursion to Niger? Wow. This Niger?

Quote:
Despite its end of the world otherness, Niger is a country perpetually on the brink of ruin. There was a brief moment in the late 1970s, after the discovery of uranium, when the country glowed with economic good health but after the bottom fell out of the market, it reverted to its hand to mouth existence. The desert, for all its beauty, is swallowing large chunks of the country at the rate of knots, there are ongoing and often bloody skirmishes between the government and Tuareg rebels, and the country is still recovering from the devastating Sahel droughts of the early 1970s.
also from the Lonely Planet Guide:

Quote:
Niger is uncomfortable pretty much all year round, but the best time to go is in the cooler months between November and February. You might get a bit of sand in the face from the dusty Harmattan winds in November, but it's not totally unbearable.
First prize, a week in Niger. Second prize, two weeks in Niger...

Ha ha ha ha clunk. That was the sound of me laughing at your post until my tuchus fell off.

Clara 08-02-2004 02:35 AM

Also from your link:

"It's the landscape that makes an impression in Niger. There's black volcanic mountains towering over green oases, cascading waterfalls, desert cities with wide tree-lined boulevards, camels, camels, camels!...and the dramatic, if lonely, beauty of the desert.

The landscape is almost matched by its inhabitants. It's a country of aristocratic desert nomads, skilled artisans, silversmiths with magical powers, and a race of tall, lithe, people so physically beautiful that even the men enter beauty contests."

goodcents 08-02-2004 09:42 AM

UC Mom it is clear to me (and most likely to others) that you have do not come here to discuss, nor to debate but to argue.

Why bother?

Are you always this way?

I feel sorry for you and for your slogan Healthy Families......your behavior certainly isn't healthy girl. Take a chill pill.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 0%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.