Any way to get vit D besides cod liver oil and sunshine? - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm new here (hi!!) but have been reading this forum a lot. We are trying to move to a more traditional foods diet. We eat this way a lot already, but have to switch from grocery-store meats to grassfed/organic and add some fermented foods.

To start we made some wild fermented pickles, some sourdough (but my dh killed my starter by turning on the oven!!!), and are buying 1/4 beef - a grassfed Highland steer from a local farmer. Many of our neighbors and friends and my dh's coworkers at school are farmers, and many raise organics and grassfed/pastured animals. We are also raising 23 laying chickens on pasture (though not organic chicken grain as it is $$$, we feed them a locally milled grain-based feed). Anticipate they will start laying in November/December.

Anyway my question is about vit D. My son has both cystic fibrosis and autism, so omega-3s and vit D are an important part of his supplements. I bought Radiant Life unflavored cod liver oil and he will have nothing to do with it. I know he likes Nordic Naturals as he has taken them in the past. But they don't have the vit D like the high-vitamin cod liver oil.

I am wondering how else I can get D into him? I was not worried until we moved up here to Vermont last year. Before that we were in Florida and he got plenty of vit D from the sun! But last winter his teeth began decaying badly and I think at least part of it was due to lack of vit D.

Someone help me? What forms of D are good ones and are there any foods that have vit D in them?

Thanks in advance...
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#2 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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Raw milk has more vit D than regular milk. That may be an option. Have you tried mixing the CLO into orange juice? Also, the amt of vit D you get from sunshine isn't nearly enough for healthy teeth and bones. Its very minimal unless you spent a long time outside everyday. Here's an article with some suggestions:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ndmiracle.html

Kim
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#3 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 07:26 PM
 
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Way to go on all your steps toward a traditional diet!

Vitamin D has been a recent obsession of mine, ever since my dh has been diagnosed with a vit D deficiency. Besides CLO, wild sockeye salmon has the greatest amount of vit D of any food source (D3, cholecalciferol). A four-ounce serving has almost 740 IU according to this source:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=110

And you are also getting lots of omega-3s with salmon too. You can prepare it lots of ways that might hide the fishy aspect of it. Salmon cakes (like crab cakes), salmon salad sandwiches (like tuna salad sandwiches), flaked into some salad, hidden in a crab dip type thing... My favorite right now is to make gravlax, as it preserves the delicate omega-3s. It's a bit like Scandanavian sushi.

If you go the route of supplements, try to avoid D2. It's synthetically derived from irradiating a fungus or yeast, I forget which. D3 is derived from the oils on the coats of animals (I think the use sheep most frequently). This is the same mechanism by which we make D3 on our skin (animals need to make it on there fur or wool since sunlight doesn't penetrate their coats to reach their skin). Anyway, we absorb our oils through our skin; animals tend to ingest their D3 in the process of grooming (so it's thought).

Oops! Ds needs me. I'll try to dig up other vit D links for you a bit later.

Kelly
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#4 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much, Kim and Kelly. We used to live in Alaska, so we ate wild sockeye basically as a staple food. In Florida we ordered it via a co-op buy direct from a farmer in Kodiak, but I never got the details of his contact information. Where do you get your wild salmon, Kelly?

I also know J was getting enough vit D in Florida as he had his levels monitored regularly. He did basically live outside in the sunshine year-round with enough natural sunblock to avoid burning, but I am telling you, he got plenty of vitamin D! His levels were always great. Because of the CF, they check vitamins A, D, E and K yearly. He is supposed to be on a CF supplement called ADEKs which are those vitamins in water-soluble form, but they are synthetic and I never trusted them. I give him Animal Parade vit's daily as well as other supplements but have never done D specifically.

We also used to do lots of canned wild salmon and did love salmon salad (ie prepared like tuna salad) sandwiches. I will have to look up gravlax! I love sushi.

My ds has a lot of food/texture/taste aversions due to the autism, so we struggle with that. No soupy/stewy/mushy textures go down. He loves meat, potatoes, and fruits. He eats a good variety of all of those and spaghetti. We did gluten and casein free for two years with an emphasis on meats and eggs so we really are already eating low- to no-grain. None of us drink milk, or I guess that would be an easy solution. I am trying to make all the foods we do enjoy, ones that have a positive health impact. But I think it will be slow going with new foods for my son. For example, I haven't tried mixing the CLO with OJ as he just won't drink OJ, won't touch it. He will drink apple juice straight or diluted. Water has to have a splash of juice in it. That kind of thing. I once mixed an 1/8 tsp vit C powder into 8 oz of pure apple juice while he was sleeping. Normally apple juice would go right down, but he spit it out instantly - he could taste the C. I couldn't - even straight, it tasted only very slightly bitter to me.
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#5 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 09:15 PM
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I believe lard from pigs raised outdoors has significant levels of vit. D. Also, for a natural, whole-food supplement, Standard Process Catalyn has a lot of it, IIRC - they have a chewable version which I haven't tasted, I don't know if it would pass a finicky kid's taste test but might be worth a shot.

There is no secret ingredient.
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#6 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks AJP. This same farmer from whom we are getting the 1/4 cow also raises pigs, but she doesn't have any at the moment. They are fully pastured with no grain, I believe. (The cows I am sure are 100% grain free, I forget what she said about the pigs.) The price on the pigs is really reasonable too, but they just don't have any to slaughter right now.

I will check out that supplement. Thanks! Chewable helps - it's variable, but I often can get him to take a decent-tasting chewable. Right now he's having a very hard time with *everything* and anything "new" is suspect, no matter if it tastes like pure chocolate. I have been doctoring foods w/supplements and oils for so long (since diagnosis with CF at ten months) that he is suspicious of anything I am remotely excited about him trying. He is very smart! But that works against me as far as trying to get supplements into him.
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#7 of 15 Old 10-18-2006, 10:57 PM
 
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Hi. You know, my son also has autism and you do have to be careful of fish because of mercury and other contamination-just be very careful of sources. Fish oils are different if purified of course to remove those things. I had been relying on our calcium supplement which has D too but I actually don't like that as too much can be bad (D2 particularly--D3 sources less so in my understanding). My boys like Carlson's lemon flavored ok mixed in drinks (tastes like lemon). Eggs contain it too--as so do some meats. You don't want too much D so be careful however you supplement and I really think I would re-think the fish.

Rachelle, mommy to 8 year old boys! 

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#8 of 15 Old 10-19-2006, 03:09 AM
 
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It sounds like you're trying to get your 'D' from whole food sources, so I'm not sure if this will be helpful. But, my naturopath prescribed a vitamin D emulsion for my twins. It's called Bio-D-Mulsion by Biotics. I give my kids each two drops a day mixed in with their hot cereal or juice. It's undetectable when mixed in to just about anything so you might have an easier time getting your son to take it.

Best of luck on your quest!

BTW, apparently the vit D used to fortify milk is of such poor quality our bodies can't absorb it, anyway. (So sayeth my naturopath). So don't feel bad about not drinking it
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#9 of 15 Old 10-19-2006, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks odd-ducks (sorry, didn't catch your name) and Rachelle. Rachelle, we're not doing salmon now - only did it when sure of the source. Wild Alaskan salmon is still extremely low in mercury. I won't touch farmed Atlantic (or any other farmed for that matter) with a ten-foot pole, don't worry! The cod liver oil I give him is purified and certified free of heavy metals.

odd-ducks, that is very helpful. Ideally I want to get D from whole food sources but he really needs to be sure to get it (he has fat malabsorption due to the CF) so wow - two drops sounds like a good insurance plan! That is perfect! Going to google that supplement right now!
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#10 of 15 Old 10-19-2006, 10:21 PM
 
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Just to throw it out there as it's a topic I've been reading alot about...

Source: Pediatric Allergy and Immunology, Volume 17, Number 7,
November 2006, pp. 477-483(7)

Publisher: Blackwell Publishing



Abstract:

Wjst M. The vitamin D slant on allergy.

Pediatr Allergy Immunol 2006: 17: 477-483. © 2006 The Author Journal
compilation © 2006 Blackwell Munksgaard

Oral vitamin D supplementation has been introduced into modern medicine
to prevent rickets without the knowledge that this may have profound
immunological consequences. The main vitamin D metabolite calcitriol
suppresses dendritic cell maturation and consecutive Th1 cell
development, which has independently described as a key mechanism of
allergy development. Animal studies and epidemiological surveys now
provide a first link of early vitamin D supplementation and later
allergy where several vitamin D regulated genes seem to be involved. A
randomized clinical trial of vitamin D supplementation could be a
further step to follow up the vitamin hypothesis.
Keywords: asthma; rhinitis; children; cholecalciferol; side effects;
rickets

Document Type: Editorial

DOI: 10.1111/j.1399-3038.2006.00456.x
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#11 of 15 Old 10-20-2006, 06:37 AM
 
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Wow. Thanks for that reference, firefaery. Do you have a link? I would love to read the full article. My son has food allergies, so this topic definitely piques my interest.

I wonder if the form of vitamin D supplementation affects this outcome. Until fairly recently, vitamin D2 was the primary form of the vitamin available in supplements. I also wonder what form of vitamin D occurs in food - D3 or 25-hydroxyvitamin D. I haven't been able to turn up that bit of info definitively.

Anyway here are some of the links I promised:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/84/4/694

Quote:
Lisa A Houghton and Reinhold Vieth
1 From the School of Nutrition and Dietetics, Acadia University, Wolfville, Canada (LAH); the Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada (RV); and the Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada (RV)


Supplemental vitamin D is available in 2 distinct forms: ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3). Pharmacopoeias have officially regarded these 2 forms as equivalent and interchangeable, yet this presumption of equivalence is based on studies of rickets prevention in infants conducted 70 y ago. The emergence of 25-hydroxyvitamin D as a measure of vitamin D status provides an objective, quantitative measure of the biological response to vitamin D administration. As a result, vitamin D3 has proven to be the more potent form of vitamin D in all primate species, including humans. Despite an emerging body of evidence suggesting several plausible explanations for the greater bioefficacy of vitamin D3, the form of vitamin D used in major preparations of prescriptions in North America is vitamin D2. The case that vitamin D2 should no longer be considered equivalent to vitamin D3 is based on differences in their efficacy at raising serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D, diminished binding of vitamin D2 metabolites to vitamin D binding protein in plasma, and a nonphysiologic metabolism and shorter shelf life of vitamin D2. Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification.


Key Words: Vitamin D2 • vitamin D3 • ergocalciferol • cholecalciferol • vitamin supplement
Here's one from the http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminD/index.html

and
http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/cancerMain.shtml

Quote:
Vitamin D Deficiency Causing Illness, Including Cancer
Articles about vitamin D are beginning to appear everywhere. For years, most of us wrongly assumed we'd be fine if we drank a little milk and took a multivitamin pill. Now, studies are reporting most of us are vitamin D deficient and those deficiencies may well be causing numerous illnesses, especially cancer.
Recent medical research indicates human daily requirements for vitamin D may be up to ten times more than what is currently recommended. Study after study shows many of us are not only vitamin D deficient, we may be paying a terrible price for it.
Benefits of proper vitamin D supplementation seem to include most major illnesses such as: Heart Disease, Hypertension, Arthritis, Chronic Pain, Depression, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, Obesity, Premenstrual Syndrome, Muscular Weakness, Fibromyalgia, Crohns Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Autoimmune Illness, as well as Cancer.
Actually, just read all the pages at the Vitamin D Council website. Very interesting stuff. I thought their links page was useful too. And, just to note, I was sort of surprised to see that they linked to the WAPF website.

blue - I wish I could say that I was getting my sockeye directly from a farmer. I just pick it up at Trader Joe's. Do you have one of those near you in Vermont?

I just wanted to mention too that I also take the Radiant Life CLO. Ew. I can do it (with effort), but there's no way that my son will take it. Right now he'll occasionally take a spoonful of Nordic Naturals lemon flavored, but I think I'm going to try the Blue Ice Orange next.

Kelly
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#12 of 15 Old 10-20-2006, 12:10 PM
 
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Egg yolks have some.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#13 of 15 Old 10-20-2006, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
Just to throw it out there as it's a topic I've been reading alot about...

Wjst M. The vitamin D slant on allergy.

Pediatr Allergy Immunol 2006: 17: 477-483. © 2006 The Author Journal
compilation © 2006 Blackwell Munksgaard

provide a first link of early vitamin D supplementation and later
allergy
Interesting. What do they mean by "early"? Infants? And I, too, would like to know if they specified if it was D2 or D3 supplementation, and whether it was isolated or in a food or other form that contains vit. A to balance the D. (Along with other things, like if by "early" they meant infants, were they BF, and if so, what was the diet of the mother like, but I've given up much hope of scientific studies including that kind of info!) I've read a lot of things that indicate taking A & D together (both natural forms, and not isolated) allows one to get the most benefit from both and protects against possible negative effects from either in large amounts.

There is no secret ingredient.
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#14 of 15 Old 10-20-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP View Post
Interesting. What do they mean by "early"? Infants? And I, too, would like to know if they specified if it was D2 or D3 supplementation, and whether it was isolated or in a food or other form that contains vit. A to balance the D. (Along with other things, like if by "early" they meant infants, were they BF, and if so, what was the diet of the mother like, but I've given up much hope of scientific studies including that kind of info!) I've read a lot of things that indicate taking A & D together (both natural forms, and not isolated) allows one to get the most benefit from both and protects against possible negative effects from either in large amounts.

the article to which firefaery refers is an editorial piece, speculating future direction of vitamin D research. they cite a number of different studies, different clinical trials, etc.

"In summary, it might be possible that the ubiquitous oral vitamin D exposure induces allergy in a genetically susceptible subgroup."

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#15 of 15 Old 10-23-2006, 11:48 PM
 
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That is why you have to drink it raw and grass-fed organic. The Vitamin D is not 'added in' because it is naturally occuring from the grass-fed cows. It is the best!
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