Don't get pregnant - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 12:49 AM
 
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I think it is really sad that as nursing mama's we need to read threads like this one. The nursing relationship is a partnership between mother and baby and every situation is individual. I am sad that with the strength and determination we all have to nurse our children as long as humanly possible that we are even subjected to posts like these. We need to support each other, not undermind each others confidence. We get enough of that from other sources as it is!

I am upset that I came accross this post being a pregant mother who is nursing her 23 month old. I suppose I am doomed now huh? Sacrcasm intended!
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#32 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 12:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jacob'smomma
I think it is really sad that as nursing mama's we need to read threads like this one. The nursing relationship is a partnership between mother and baby and every situation is individual. I am sad that with the strength and determination we all have to nurse our children as long as humanly possible that we are even subjected to posts like these. We need to support each other, not undermind each others confidence. We get enough of that from other sources as it is!
I agree... It's too easy to set up a bunch of rules like these to judge if someone's CLW or not CLW, and I don't think it benefits anyone. We have enough judgement coming from mainstream society already, we don't need to get it here too. We shouldn't have to worry about if we're perfect enough or crunchy enough or CLW enough... we shouldn't have to feel like if we choose to add more children to our family we're somehow depriving our older children or worry about being judged as "not really CLW". IMHO, as long as you're supporting your nursing relationship, and your children are getting to make the final decision about when they truly feel ready to wean (barring misinterpreted nursing strikes and the like), then you're CLW.

Will pregnancy and future children affect my relationship with my son, including our nursing relationship? Surely. Would my getting pregnant again influence him to wean earlier than he otherwise would? Possibly... there's no way to know. Would I let that keep me from TTC again any time until he's fully weaned? No. Personally, I don't feel that would neccessarily be the best choice fo us. I would not choose to deprive my son of some of his siblings (and since there's time limits on a woman's fertility, waiting does possibly mean having fewer children), relationships that he would have for his entire life, out of fear of him possibly having a few fewer months or years of nursing, something that would still be his choice to give up or not, pregnancy or no. Obviously (or I wouldn't be in this forum), I would like my son to keep nursing as long as he wants to. But I will not feel that I'll be depriving my son by giving him a sister or brother. Nor would I feel like I'm depriving him by offering him the opportunity to have a tandem nursing relationship with those siblings.

We all have to decide what's the most important for us. If waiting until weaning to have future children is your priority, then that's the right choice for you. If having more children sooner is a priority (or simply a reality) for other families, I wouldn't say that makes them less dedicated to their child's need to give up nursing on his/her own schedule... even if it does end up speeding the schedule along more than it may have been otherwise.
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#33 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 12:46 PM
 
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I think part of supporting eachother also means acknowledging and empathizing with things that can be difficult about natural parenting, especially when they come unexpectedly. The time commitment and emotional and physical work of tandem nursing can be one of those difficulties for some women. Yes, there is enough negativity about natural parenting in our world to make us all want to cry and run away. But I don't think that expressing some of the difficulties--even regrets or reconsiderations--to peers is the same as criticism from people who do not share any of our parenting values and philosophies. And sharing what is hard or what one regrets--part of the realities of natural parenting--helps all of us make well-informed decisions.

I myself regret that I weaned my 2 year old to get pregnant. I had been pregnant while nursing my firstborn, and it was so painful that when I miscarried (unrelated to nursing--I'd had two miscarriages before the first one), I decided I wouldn't try to tandem nurse the next time around, but I'm pretty confident that tandem nursing would have helped my firstborn's transition to siblinghood. So that's my regret, and I'm nursing my second child longer, and waiting to even consider ttc again until after she weans, even though in our case that might (due to fertility issues) mean no more children.
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#34 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 01:48 PM
 
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I would like to hear more about other women's experiences and decisions balancing extended nursing and family planning. If others have changed what they have initially thought they would do because circumstances were different than they expected. Maybe then I would feel less guilt about my decision to wean my 2 yr old son (though I will always regret how quickly I did it).
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#35 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 01:57 PM
 
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This has been an interesting thread. Part of the problem with CLW is that that IMO it can't be completely defined. The other problem is that we all live in a culture that likes to call things CLW that sure don't look like it to me. I know several people IRL (I include my own mother in this group) that nursed until 9-10 months and their dc took off on solids big time and really lost interest in nursing. If/When dc indicated some interests in nursing the mother denied nursing and the dc cried for a few seconds and went on to something else. I think find most of these mom's to be very sensitive to their child's needs and these weanings seem apparently untramatic to the child. They do not strike me as child lead even though many of these moms consider what happened to be child lead.

I have only had the experience of nursing one child and I do consider him to have CLW. In fact I think the last 3-4 months I really almost pushed nursing too much because it made him easier to deal with. He weaned when I was about 8 week pregnant. I don't feel pregnancy had a darn thing to do with it. He had already gone days without nursing. My supply had already dropped off significantly. I didn't have any nipple pain when we did nurse. He told his cousin at christmas time, "I don't drink momma's milk any more." He seemed neither proud nor sad about it. (His comment went completely over his 4 yo (formula feed) cousins head.)
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#36 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 02:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by busybusymomma
Raina,

Part of a CLW relationship is teaching them to respect, while respecting their desire to continue nursing.
I totally agree. I believe this begins early in life, too. I could never stand any twiddling or any other touching of my other nipple while nursing. I would simply redirect his hands away from my nipple when he was younger. When he was 5 or 6 months and went through a brief biting stage, I simply set him down on the floor and walked away if he bit while reminding him that there is no biting. Now, at 3 1/2, he sometimes attempts to mess with my other nipple, but I remind him that that's not OK.

Usually he prefers to drive his matchbox car "on the mama highway" -- I don't have any problem allowing certain kinds of touching during nursing, but I refuse to allow touching that I find objectionable.

I think that CLW is often a great parenting context to teach boundaries, limits, and other relationship skills.

Karla
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#37 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 02:32 PM
 
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Sorry it's been hard, FreeRangeMama.
Just wanted to clarify that it hasn't been hard for me, maybe you have me confused with another poster??

I am happily tandem nursing through pregnancy and will be happily triandem nursing soon. Of course it can be challenging at times, but so can all aspects of mothering


 

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#38 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 02:41 PM
 
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Yep! I was totally confused. In fact, I hadn't even actually found my way back to the OP but thought I had.
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#39 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 03:07 PM
 
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:LOL I am confused much of the time these days :LOL

I need this warning:

Warning: Don't tandem nurse through pregnancy, it might affect your ability to hold a thought in your head, confusion will ensue :LOL


 

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#40 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 03:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans
Some people think that it is important for siblings to be close in age to have things in common and good relationships. That is a myth.
I agree with that.

Personally we are waiting to TTC until ds is 2.5 - 3 years (a few more months) because he is still nursing. It's my personal preference not to want to nurse while pregnant. Many of my dear friends have nursed while pregnant & are now tandem nursing happily & successfully.

I have personal reasons for wanting my children slightly further apart in age, but others have reasons for smaller age gaps. That's cool by me.
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#41 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 04:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans
Some people think that it is important for siblings to be close in age to have things in common and good relationships. That is a myth.
I don't think it's a myth - I think it's a personal preference and choice. Surely siblings can still have good relationships when they're spaced further apart, but if you find it important for them to be close in age, that's valid too.
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#42 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 10:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lifetapestry
I totally agree. I believe this begins early in life, too. I could never stand any twiddling or any other touching of my other nipple while nursing. I would simply redirect his hands away from my nipple when he was younger. When he was 5 or 6 months and went through a brief biting stage, I simply set him down on the floor and walked away if he bit while reminding him that there is no biting. Now, at 3 1/2, he sometimes attempts to mess with my other nipple, but I remind him that that's not OK.

Usually he prefers to drive his matchbox car "on the mama highway" -- I don't have any problem allowing certain kinds of touching during nursing, but I refuse to allow touching that I find objectionable.

I think that CLW is often a great parenting context to teach boundaries, limits, and other relationship skills.

Karla
Karla,

Funny that you replied to something I said, cause I meant to come back... not that I would ever wean because of this... but ds' new thing is putting his hand in my pants. Umm, no I don't think so! I'm just not comfortable with his hands in my pants (not to mention they're low rise). I've been doing a lot of re-directing. I'm trying to find a nice nursing necklace that appeals to me. The last one I had was shaped beads in the shapes of animals and it hurt my neck!

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#43 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 10:23 PM
 
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Does anyone have a high need child that self weaned before 3? I am curious to hear other people's experiences.
Thanks!
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#44 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 10:26 PM
 
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You said you were looking for a nursing necklace. Did you ever look at littlegemsonline.com? I just got one there and am looking forward to getting it in the mail. My friend's son likes to have his hand on her other nipple, while he nurses. It drives her crazy, especially when she is trying to sleep and she has these little fingers feeling her up. HAHA
Best of luck!
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#45 of 85 Old 01-17-2005, 11:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moonmomma07
You said you were looking for a nursing necklace. Did you ever look at littlegemsonline.com? I just got one there and am looking forward to getting it in the mail. My friend's son likes to have his hand on her other nipple, while he nurses. It drives her crazy, especially when she is trying to sleep and she has these little fingers feeling her up. HAHA
Best of luck!
Thanks for the heads up Wendy. I think I'll start a thread on BF asking for all the brands moms here have used so I can make sure I get just the right one! LOL

It might help if I knew what I wanted! :LOL
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#46 of 85 Old 01-18-2005, 01:32 AM
 
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Pi Nursing Necklace

I bought this necklace, and it works beautifully-- the hole is just the right size for little kid fingers-- perfect for "twiddling", if you know what I mean!!
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#47 of 85 Old 01-18-2005, 12:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ubertulip
Pi Nursing Necklace

I bought this necklace, and it works beautifully-- the hole is just the right size for little kid fingers-- perfect for "twiddling", if you know what I mean!!
Melissa- that's perfect! More what I had in mind, very simple so I wouldn't mind wearing it. Thanks SO much for posting that!
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#48 of 85 Old 01-18-2005, 03:44 PM
 
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dd went through a twiddling thing like that too for a while. It drives me nuts and so it doesn't happen anymore.
She does rub my arm sometimes, and that is really sweet.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#49 of 85 Old 01-18-2005, 05:30 PM
 
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One of the reasons I wanted my children closer together was because my closest (in age) sister and I are 5 years apart and quite frankly it sucked growing up. We were at totally different stages in our lives and for that reason didn't become friends until we became adults. Now we are best friends and our DCs are within months of each other (she is due tomorrow with her #2 and our first children were 5 months apart).

I wanted my children less than 3 years apart so that they could play together both as children and be friends as adults. Honestly I think there are pros and cons no matter how you space your children and I don't think there is any spacing that is "ideal"...so you just do the best you can to pick a spacing that you think will work for your family.

Steph

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#50 of 85 Old 01-18-2005, 06:06 PM
 
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I don't undertstand the 2.5 years part? That is very arbitrary. Someone else could write the same post, only with one year or foiur years or 5 months.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

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#51 of 85 Old 01-19-2005, 04:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa
I don't undertstand the 2.5 years part? That is very arbitrary. Someone else could write the same post, only with one year or foiur years or 5 months.
I was wondering the same thing, is that a magic age? If you believe that getting pregnant eliminates CLW than you shouldn't get pregnant at any age.

My period returned when each of my girls were 6 months... but even without BC I wasn't pregnant until they were 12-15. I have two little girls who are amazing friends and have an amazing bond- I don't regret it at all and they are both happily leading the way with weaning.

My oldest decided to wean when she learned her two closest friends were weaned... next thing you know there will be advice not to make any friends if you want to CLW
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#52 of 85 Old 01-19-2005, 06:52 PM
 
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i agree with tuffykenwell. we're planning to start ttc after ds turns 1 (if he's eating enough solids by then). my brother and i are 6 years apart and we're not that close. he was 12 when I left home and we didn't share a lot of the things closer siblings share. dh and his brother are 2.5 years apart and are very close. their younger sister (13) feels very lonely without her brothers around.
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#53 of 85 Old 01-19-2005, 07:50 PM
 
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Sorry, I should have clarified and explained that my ds is currently weaning himself. I expect from the way he is going that by the time he is 3 he will have weaned himself (but who knows). That's why I put the 'personally' because in my personal situation that age is the age that ds will most likely be CLW. I was trying to say with my post that I *prefer* not to nurse while PG (meaning if ds wants to, of course, he can) but have friends who have done it & I applaud them. Their reasons for wanting children closer together are valid for them, just as my reasons for a larger spacing are valid for me.

I am totally a live and let live person. Really just chatting about what we are doing. Not saying everybody should do the same. Hope that's clearer now.

About age gaps & being friends, to exemplify why I think it is a myth that only close ages lead to good friendships amongst siblings.

I have a brother who is 5 years younger and we have ALWAYS been best friends and still talk almost daily, although we live in different countries. in my experience, personality has much more to do with it than age gap. (I also have 2 other siblings closer in age, and we are not *as* close)
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#54 of 85 Old 01-19-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eternal_grace

About age gaps & being friends, to exemplify why I think it is a myth that only close ages lead to good friendships amongst siblings.

I have a brother who is 5 years younger and we have ALWAYS been best friends and still talk almost daily, although we live in different countries. in my experience, personality has much more to do with it than age gap. (I also have 2 other siblings closer in age, and we are not *as* close)
I agree with this. Spacing does not guarantee a good relationship. I was originally planning five years between children, so I talked to everyone i Know who had siblings that far apart, and the majority of them were close. I changed my mind and want my children closer together, and have talked to people with close siblings. Some were/are close. Some not so much. There are way more variables than that. Everyone just has to decide what is best for them.

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#55 of 85 Old 01-20-2005, 03:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa
I agree with this. Spacing does not guarantee a good relationship. I was originally planning five years between children, so I talked to everyone i Know who had siblings that far apart, and the majority of them were close. I changed my mind and want my children closer together, and have talked to people with close siblings. Some were/are close. Some not so much. There are way more variables than that. Everyone just has to decide what is best for them.
I think the age thing matters more when you are children than when everyone is an adult. I am the "baby" of my family and my siblings are 10,9,7 and 5 years older than I am. The older siblings were always sort of a pack and I felt more alone as a result of it when I was a child. When I was 12 my closest in age sister was 17 and had already moved out of the house.

That being said, my siblings and I are very close and I consider my sisters and brother my best friends so in the long run it really didn't make a difference. However I wanted my children to have someone to hang with while they were growing up because I really felt very lonely much of the time as I grew up.

Steph

Steph~~momma to Rhys 2002, Niamh 2004, Isla 2007 and Deirdre 2009
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#56 of 85 Old 01-20-2005, 12:03 PM
 
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Same here Steph. My brothers were 6.5 and almost 8 years younger than I. My youngest brother died at 14mo and that leaves me and my almost 18 year old brother. We were close in a cats and dogs kinda way... and possibly closer than we would have been if we hadn't lost our only other sibling. A combination of our age difference and being opposite gender always made things interesting. LOL

I personally want my kids 2-3 years apart... if I could stay sane and it wouldn't compromise my milk supply I'd have them even closer. I have a friend who would prefer to wait until the youngest is in preschool or kindergarten to have another- and I understand that.

It really is such an individual decision!
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#57 of 85 Old 01-20-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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posted in wrong place; ignore please!
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#58 of 85 Old 01-20-2005, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eternal_grace

I am totally a live and let live person. Really just chatting about what we are doing. Not saying everybody should do the same.


glad to see a potentially devisive post going so well here.
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#59 of 85 Old 01-20-2005, 08:24 PM
 
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I chose to wait to conceive my third pregnancy until my twins weaned (ages 4.5 and 5.) I just personally didn't want to nurse through pregnancy and I definitely didn't want to nurse the twins and an infant. But I don't know what I'd have done had I only had one child. I was committed to child-led weaning and didn't want to nurse during pregnancy. I think it's fine to nurse in pregnancy, don't get me wrong, I just knew that I'd hate it.

However, I did tandem nurse the twins for 4.5 years.
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#60 of 85 Old 01-21-2005, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Research has shown that human babies are biologically designed to breastfeed between 2.5 - 7 years (Dettwyler). For all of the facial and oral advantages of breastfeeding you need to breastfeed until around the time all of a child's baby teeth are in. If you were wanting most of the advantages of breastfeeding for your child (evidence based) then you would want your child to breastfeed for at least 2.5 to 3 years. Breastfeeding continues to offer advantages to the child as long as they breastfeed.

www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html
www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Aug94.html

Few babies in our society get the chance to experience CLW. Mothering Magazine is an advocate for the child and has long supported CLW. This is a new forum and many may not understand what CLW is and isn't.

I think most of us would agree that if we want the best for our baby, we breastfeed. There is evidence that if we want the best for our child, we breastfeed at least 2.5 - 3 years. That is why 2.5 years is the magic age to wait to TTC. Some women can nurse a baby or toddler through pregnancy with no problems, most can't.

You don't have to nurse 2.5 years or CLW to be a good mother or to have a healthy child. Perhaps there needs to be a forum for mother-led weaning. I am surprised by how upset and defensive some people have responded.
What's that about?

: Grandmother , 3 Adult Sons

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