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#31 of 81 Old 01-02-2005, 11:37 PM
 
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I also do not think it's a good idea to combine Getting Started with EBF. Weaning issues aside, both fora are pretty busy with different problems of early vs. later nursing, and I think it merits separation so that the threads don't disappear too quickly without getting answered. There are a lot of things in EBF that have nothing to do with mother-led weaning - societal pressure, starting other foods, teething, pressure to wean from medical types, etc., that I think merit their own space.

I've spent a lot of time in both Getting Started and EBF when I have time, trying to help other mamas, especially when I see a thread that hasn't gotten answered yet. It's too easy for those threads to fall off the first page, and I think that will get worse with the two combined fora.

Can we please have EBF back and make CLW a sub-forum? Important as it is for CLWers to have a safe space, I don't think it merits its own forum in lieu of having separated Getting Started and EBF. I think it would be much better as a sub-forum just as EC is a sub-forum under Diapering.

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#32 of 81 Old 01-02-2005, 11:50 PM
 
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quirky has just said everything i meant to. i never felt weird talking about nursing a 7 yr old in ebf & aside from trolls was always supported; the only dissing i've ever gotten was from the more militant clw'ers for telling my 7 yr old, 'y'know? i don't want to do this any more.' is cm aware that what some people's definition for clw, is different from some of the more moderate definitions i've heard in this thread?

please bring back ebf; clw will be a great subforum, but merging ebf with the difficulties faced by bfing nbs is confusing.

suse (currently tandeming my 2 & nearly 4 yr old, with no plans to stop but reserving the right to wean if i choose to in future years. that means i can't get in the club.)
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#33 of 81 Old 01-02-2005, 11:56 PM
 
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We could really do without the sarcasm, don't you think?
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#34 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 12:05 AM
 
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I think the "getting started" forum should probably have been kept, for all of the new nursing moms to focus on the newness of nursing.

But the "breastfeeding" forum should sufficiently cover any other issues outside of "getting started", "support and advocacy" and "CLW" IMHO.

And I think that anyone who thinks that the way their nursing relationship is going would not be condoned by the strictest CLW'ers should still feel welcome in the CLW forum bc there are probably many definitions and interpretations to CLW, and this is something we can begin discussing in that forum to try and delineate the parameters of child led/respectful weaning.

I would welcome anyone in the "CLW Club" today, whether or not they were sure that they would remain members or even qualify. Sometimes I wonder if I do!
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#35 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 12:22 AM
 
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Jenny, Andrea & anyone else feeling this:

Quote:
Though I am the mother of an almost 3 year old nursling, I have set some limits on her nursing that I think many who are really committed to CLW would not agree with. Now I feel like I don't fit in anywhere.
I have been "hanging out" on the CLW thread for quite some time now and there have *never* been negative opinoins expressed towards my DDs weaning or the limits I choose to place on my DS. There is a wide variety of behavior among "CLW"ers and I think you would and should all feel welcome

 

 

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#36 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 12:27 AM
 
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I had understood CLW to mean you can set limits and do have days where you just want to wean. It took me years of avoiding threads/converstations about CLW to realize this after I felt I did not do CLW with my first because I cut back on some nursings with her and did tell her to wait and "no" when I was done NIP after age 2 1/2. I think that there is a possibility that not everyone will feel they fit in here including good moms who ebf.
I'm still glad to see the forum though.

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#37 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 12:32 AM
 
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I consider us to be CLW.

My DS is not quite 3 yo, but I have been setting limits with him for a few months now.
I won't always nurse him when he asks (if I haven't finished my dinner yet, or if I have to go pee really bad, or if we are in a restaurant, to name a few...). These are recent limits, and there are probably more, but they are more about recognizing needs vs. wants, and convenience of catering to wants. If it is convenient to nurse a "want" I will never deny him, but if it is inconvenient, I'll ask him to wait.

And I still think we are CLWers!
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#38 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 12:40 AM
 
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I'm not all that happy with this name change. I consider myself an EBFer but certainly not a child led weaner. My son is 2.5 and I am encouraging him to wean. This is not a positive change for me.
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#39 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 01:33 AM
 
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This is not a name change, this is a *new* subforum for mamas who are doing child led weaning.
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#40 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 02:03 AM
 
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i think it really seems like a name change becasue extended breastfeeding is gone--and so is getting started? is that right? i am not sure if i am a child lead nurser either, like some of these moms have expressed. i think having a forum for child lead weaning is FABULOUS but i am not sure why the others had to be cut out. i have concerns about that as well, as someone who has used all the BF forums here. i just wanted to voice that too, and i hope the others can get added back on.

unless its OK to post weaning questions on the child lead weaning board? like i dont get where i post stuff like that for my almost 3 YO nursling....i want support for EB but i dont want to feel like i am offending CLW moms by asking for help with mother lead weaning.
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#41 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 02:49 AM
 
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Wow, I'm . :LOL


Thank you Peggy, Cynthia and everyone else who played a role in this decision. I appreciate you taking the time to think it through, to make sure it would be a positive move for MDC. The wait was worth it. As with other aspects of natural parenting, I think it is so important to honor child-led weaning as a positive and important choice for NFL families.



and most of all.....
!!!



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#42 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 02:55 AM
 
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I'm glad to see the CLW forum added- though I will admit that I was confused by the way 2 other forums were combined at the same time. My first thought was that they had simply changed the names, until I read this post.

I have to say, I like the changes. The term "extended bf" has always bothered me because I don't think it's "extended" to nurse a 13mo baby!! I don't even think it's "extended" to nurse a 7yo. I think it's "premature" to wean a 1yo (though I have complete respect for whatever choices a woman makes for her own family.)

If there are going to be 4 bf forums, I could see naming them "getting started and overcoming difficulties," "nursing past infancy" "clw" and "support and advocacy."

I also feel I need to comment on this: "Will we be ostracizing moms who can not do child led weaning? I fear it is a title loaded with value judgements."

It's a separate forum for moms who've chosen to do CLW. Nobody is forcing anybody to post on this thread. I avoid the Circumcision forum because I had my son circumcised for religous reasons when he was 8 days old and I intend to do the same if I'm blessed with any more sons. Does that particular forum exclude me? Yes it does, but I still belong at MDC!!!

Ruth, single mommy to 3 quasi-adults
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#43 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 03:13 AM
 
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No, it's a name change. I had a link in my favorites folder to EBF. It is now this forum. Thus they changed the name of EBF to CLW.
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#44 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 03:19 AM
 
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I see. I was confused because I was on threads that were in the EB forum so I thought that the EB forum had been changed to just "Breastfeeding" because all of the EB threads were there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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#45 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 03:20 AM
 
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I am having another "what?????" moment - happenes to me a lot lately :LOL

I think there should be a place where it is safe to talk about the challenges of bfing an older child without the fear of being riddled with weaning advice

BUT~~~~

I have a (hopefully unfounded) fear that if someone is having a bad day, week, etc and wants some feedback on how to limit nursing they will be flamed
Maybe this is because this is where I am right now with my dd - the transition from unlimited, all access nursing to wanting her to wait until I finish eating, get off the tiolet , etc.

Would this be the place? Extended bfing seemed more fitting, maybe because it didnt have the same kind of loaded title.

That said, Ill be here! Please be kind.
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#46 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 03:24 AM
 
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i think they probably moved all the threads, then changed the name of the empty forum. i don't think this was meant to replace EBF - i think "breastfeeding" was meant to replace EBF and getting started - they just changed the old EBF to CLW for technical reasons (to avoid having to delete the EBF forum only to add the CLW forum). did that make sense? :LOL
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#47 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 03:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
I think that the only thing that we should all keep in check is respect.

I think if one has really strong feelings against CLWing they probably shouldn't be on this particulair forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaAllNatural
For those wondering if they fit in, I think what's important with CLW is that the child leads the way in the *final* weaning. It's almost impossible not to set *some* limits with nursing. If you are planning on nursing until your child is ready to stop you most certainly belong in the CLW forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneWe
And I think that anyone who thinks that the way their nursing relationship is going would not be condoned by the strictest CLW'ers should still feel welcome in the CLW forum bc there are probably many definitions and interpretations to CLW, and this is something we can begin discussing in that forum to try and delineate the parameters of child led/respectful weaning.

I would welcome anyone in the "CLW Club" today, whether or not they were sure that they would remain members or even qualify. Sometimes I wonder if I do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
I have been "hanging out" on the CLW thread for quite some time now and there have *never* been negative opinoins expressed towards my DDs weaning or the limits I choose to place on my DS. There is a wide variety of behavior among "CLW"ers and I think you would and should all feel welcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
The term "extended bf" has always bothered me because I don't think it's "extended" to nurse a 13mo baby!! I don't even think it's "extended" to nurse a 7yo.

These statements sum up my thoughts too.


Also, this forum is not a name change. The title of this thread indicates so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher
Welcome to our newest forum!
It is a new forum, not a name change.
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#48 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megieblue
No, it's a name change. I had a link in my favorites folder to EBF. It is now this forum. Thus they changed the name of EBF to CLW.
The reason your bookmark came to the CLW forum is because that's how it happened when they assigned a URL to the new board. It just happened that way when they did the combining of the two other boards. It left an empty URL and it of course would get assigned to the next newly created forum- which was CLW. Part of webmastering!
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#49 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 05:06 PM
 
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Okay, my $.02...
I'm all for a CLW forum. However, I don't know if I'm going to be doing CLW. I really liked the EBF forum, and would love to see it continued (maybe as Sustained BF instead?). I think the needs of EBFers are very different from those of the avg new mama, and as a pp said, the increased traffic could very well mean that new threads get submerged quickly.

So can we unmerge the EBF & Getting Started forums, and keep CLW as a new forum? Pleeese?
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#50 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 05:13 PM
 
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Sustained bfing is sononymous with clw bfing. That's why Sustainer is sustainer, because she believes strongly in sustained (clw) bfing. (Hope that's ok to speak for you Alice : )

A lot of us share your concerns about the merging Nate. However, on another thread today, Cynthia posted a request that we please give this new format a try first. She reminded us that this change is brand new and that they will be closely watching all activity to see if it's working or not.
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#51 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 06:39 PM
 
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Goodness! I don't think I would have gotten to 7 years if I hadn't sometimes set limits on my nursling. Heck, I figure there were some bridges I would have jumped off during the insanity of the 22-month binge (when she nursed hourly for a week or two!) or other times if I didn't just have some other tools in my toolbelt...even if that tool was not to sit down for a whole day...

I think clw is a mindset, but we all have days we have to get through, or situations that in themselves offer barriers to continuing...

Mary, who's sad that people think this is an all-or-nothing idea...imo, we all grow into clw, one day at a time.
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#52 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 06:50 PM
 
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My question: why is there such widespread confusion about what CLW is? I had no idea you could set limits and still CLW until recently and I am a fairly educated, pro-nursing natural living mama. I assumed CLW was some place I couldn't go because I had bad days and set limits.

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#53 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 07:30 PM
 
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Hmm...my interpretation was that Sustained just means longer than the traditional 3 month/6 month/one yr mindset in this country. I.e., it's synonymous w/ "Extended." B/c you can wean at 3 yrs, and that's definitely "sustained" or "extended" according to our culture--but maybe it's not CLW. KWIM?

Anyway, I know that it's going to take me a while to get my head around CLW being a place that's about more than "weaning" issues per se. I guess my concern is that anyone looking for a place to post questions about toddler nursing, when the questions aren't specifically about weaning, won't know where to go.

But sure, let's give it a chance & see how it works!
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#54 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monnie
My question: why is there such widespread confusion about what CLW is? I had no idea you could set limits and still CLW until recently and I am a fairly educated, pro-nursing natural living mama. I assumed CLW was some place I couldn't go because I had bad days and set limits.
I don't think so, Monnie. I think of CLW as the child leading the way to the final cessation of nursing. I just think some limit setting and having "bad" days are part of being human mothers.

I think the relationship with each nursling is dynamic, and being open to how they respond to the limits. Limits can also help a mom keep going sometimes. I think it is being conscious of your choices and your goal. too.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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#55 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 08:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom4tot
I don't think so, Monnie. I think of CLW as the child leading the way to the final cessation of nursing. I just think some limit setting and having "bad" days are part of being human mothers.

I think the relationship with each nursling is dynamic, and being open to how they respond to the limits. Limits can also help a mom keep going sometimes. I think it is being conscious of your choices and your goal. too.
Wonderfully explained.
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#56 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 10:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate

Anyway, I know that it's going to take me a while to get my head around CLW being a place that's about more than "weaning" issues per se. I guess my concern is that anyone looking for a place to post questions about toddler nursing, when the questions aren't specifically about weaning, won't know where to go.
I think that CLW has a start, a middle and an end.

The start, IMO, is when you realize the importance of the nursing relationship and how the babe is very much a vital part in that relationship. Thus, the beginning of a dynamic relationship begins. Here we are calling it CLW. Again in my opinion. By calling it this you are indicating that you believe your child to have a active role in the decision making in such a relationship.

All the challenges and successes of nursing a toddler can still be discussed here, if discusses with respect. CLW to me means you have a respectful nursing relationship, whether that be at the beginning mid or end KWIM?

One request for everyone that I have is that blanket statements be avoided.

Such as, "Choosing to nurse a toddler past five is inappropriate." would be the blanket statement.

Instead choose to say: "In my nursing relationship, choosing to nurse my child past five would feel inappropriate"

This way one only offers opinion on their own situation, this eliminates the feelings of general judgements that stem from blanket statements.
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#57 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 10:06 PM
 
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Thanks for the clarification, Joan. I hope it helps some others reading this as well.

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#58 of 81 Old 01-03-2005, 10:09 PM
 
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ok. i just reread https://www.mothering.com/discussions...&highlight=clw

it was a great thread, & i am willing to backtrack & say ok, screw the potential divisiveness of the thing, a subforum is an excellent idea. (but of course i am saying this, not knowing ebf was going to bite the dust! those of us who were bemoaning the need for a name change, are you feeling guilt in retrospect like i am? if i'd known i might've laid off my desire for 'sustained' etc & lived with 'ebf'.)

but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mother_sunshine
Suse,


I don't think it's a big deal that you weaned your child at age 7. I think that's awesome that you continued that long, and even better that you did it without much support. But I wouldn't call it child-led because you ultimately decided when it was time for your child to wean. Child-respectful weaning, yes. But child-led weaning is just that, logically, child-led-weaning. Not sure why it's such an issue here? You did great.
it was albeit sweetly said, but i did think it was still clear that i am not 'in the club'.
is everyone that calls themself clw comfortable with this? if your 7 yr old is still nursing, you can be certain you wouldn't sigh & start a little mother led weaning? but because you are adamant now, not knowing what the future may hold, you can join in.

i do not feel welcome in participating . *that* is why it's such an issue here.

i did not have a lot of questions to ask in ebf, but i hoped on a few occasions when mothers were frustrated with their *cough* more 'mature' nurslings, that i was able to help them work through a rough spot *without* weaning (i have never really thought much about weaning techniques; with teeny tinies like two and four yr olds, who needs to think of such far off concerns, lol? for that i have no advice.)

all i can think of is firemom's little girl's weaning party. the place to celebrate that belongs with helping new mamas with cracked nipples? (talk about scaring off the newbies!) it seemed to belong in ebf... but along with my posts, is excluded from this replacement forum.

sigh. i really, really do have things to share- my feelings when the dentist is shocked at nightnursing, weirdness about ebf my four yr old in front of relatives, telling him to wait- things that we have in common, all of us that ebf. i even love clw as a philosophy; i just feel excluding women who might, one day,choose to gently wean their 7 yr olds (and acknowledge that fact) is very... limiting.

btw, am i the only one who thinks it is weird that the two seperate issues of a) name change, & b) clw subforum, have been combined? there was not a pro-clw'r in the joint that advocated *killing* ebf. they just wanted their own forum (as i said before, i now agree- coolness.) was there some confusion?

(btw, there was no sarcasm in my last post, trust me.)

i hope it all gets straightened out to *everyone's* satisfaction, ciao, suse
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#59 of 81 Old 01-04-2005, 01:14 AM
 
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Susey, I *do* think you have a place here. I guess the big picture of this forum is that no weaning will be advocated here. Also, I think the difference (which I feel certain you share) is that when you're more committed to CLW, the advice is going to be different. So, a woman coming here to vent about her 2.5 yo driving her crazy will not be met with "I know, I want to wean mine too!" "You know, you don't have to nurse her anymore" "This might be a good time to wean." Here I imagine the advice will all be more along the lines of "I understand what you're going through" "Hang in there" "Here's what helped me" "How about setting some gentle limits?" and other BTDT advice that encourages continuing to nurse. So I *do* think you could participate here and that you have a lot of valuable bfing experience to share and advice to offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suseyblue
all i can think of is firemom's little girl's weaning party. the place to celebrate that belongs with helping new mamas with cracked nipples? (talk about scaring off the newbies!)

am i the only one who thinks it is weird that the two seperate issues of a) name change, & b) clw subforum, have been combined? there was not a pro-clw'r in the joint that advocated *killing* ebf. they just wanted their own forum (as i said before, i now agree- coolness.) was there some confusion?
I share your concerns here. I'm thinking the only way it will really work is to put a lot of posts that would've been in the EB forum into the S & A forum. I can see how a lot of them would fit in there. I've had a hard time finding the difference between the S & A and the EB forum anyway. As of now, though, Cynthia is asking us to give this a trial run. I honestly do feel a little lost and confused and mostly have concerns about EBers & Newbfers being in the same forum, but I think we should give it a try.


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#60 of 81 Old 01-04-2005, 02:42 AM
 
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Okay, Suse, first I had to take a deep breath to not take offense at your quoting me from an old thread that was not even a part of this thread. That seems a bit unethical to me, being that it was used in a somewhat negative way here. Then I had to back up and see it at face value. I see your point, and yes I do feel that you belong here if you are considering CLWing your children. Yes, I still do agree with what I said and it is still how I feel. However, I was not picking on you, as insinuated, and I was not trying to one-up you or "kick you out of the club" either. That is not my way.

I too remember Cindy's dd's weaning and it was a huge influence on me, knowing that everything will be okay if I let my dd lead the way too.

I have more to say but I will PM you to avoid further public confrontation. It is obviously personal and I am hoping that you are willing to work together to get past it so we can work together harmoniously here rather that butting heads all the time.
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