Does anyone know details about an 8 yo - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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who was "taken away" from its mama b/c of bf? Or any child taken away for this reason?
I have posted before about how my mom keeps telling me (since before he was even 1, btw) that ds could be taken away for nursing and she is citing some story she heard some time ago about an 8 yo. She swears there were no other issues, that CPS took the child solely because it was still being nursed.
I am SO SICK of her telling me this (it does feel like a threat) and I would just love to know if there is any truth to the story she is telling.
TIA
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#2 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 08:54 AM
 
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#3 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know. Every time she thinks to, she reminds me that "he could be taken away from you for that."
OMG, I really figured it wasn't true. Is there a law against nursing past a certain age?
See, that makes me wonder if I should let him clw. That is TERRIBLE and would be so totally traumatic...I mean way more traumatic than weaning, imo...
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#4 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 01:21 PM
 
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There are no laws reguarding what age we can nurse until... at least that I know of These kinds of things are just another example of people putting their nose where it shouldn't be and the State thinking that they are Lord over everyone's lives. If ANY story is presented in just the right way, cps will jump on it like white on rice.

Of course being that breastfeeding in and of itself isn't exactly the social norm here in the US, it's not surprising that people involved with cps would see extended BFing as strange and feel like they need to "rescue" the poor child from this horribly abusive situation. Give me a break.

My thinking is that with a situation like yours where there is the fear of being called on I would take on the mindset... what she doesn't know won't hurt her. I'm not suggesting to go and hide away but make it peaceful for yourself by doing what you have to do. Maybe that means not sharing the fact that you're still nursing maybe it is another way, that's up to you but I think it's justifable.

That poor Mama and little one... My ds is 3yo and still nursing and I can't imagine him just being ripped away from me and how traumatic that would be.Sobering.

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#5 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 01:28 PM
 
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#6 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 01:44 PM
 
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The newly released AAP statement on breastfeeding states: "There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer.197". http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/115/2/496
But if someone is "threatening" you, I would avoid them like the plague, even it is a close family member. Why would you want to subject your child to comments like that, anyway?! Ok, off soapbox, sorry you're going through this.
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#7 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 04:27 PM
 
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#8 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 05:00 PM
 
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I actually got to know this mother. She had stayed at my home a few times but we have lost contact with each other. He did wean right before his 8 th birthday.

Her son is in 5 grade now like my son and is 10 years old. He's a great very social kid.

I also nursed my dd until she was close to 6.

Anyone in this world can call CPS on you and they will then have to come out and check on you and your family. Would your family really want to disrupt your family like this? They really need to think through what could happen if CPS intervenes. They might not like something else in your family life.
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#9 of 25 Old 02-07-2005, 05:13 PM
 
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I am very protective of our nursing because of this. There doesn't have to be a law in place to have CPS called, just an uninformed, nosey or spiteful person. People get cps called for much less than this...I agree with the pp that you have to protect your own family. I would not discuss nursing with this person. I don't even know if I could continue a relationship with someone who threatened my family in this way.

To the OP. your son is old enough to understand how some families do things differently kind of thing, and this isn't something we discuss with Grandma...even tho he has nothing to feel embarressed about. You have to find a balance between meeting his needs and living in the society which we do.

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#10 of 25 Old 02-08-2005, 01:35 AM
 
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I remember it well. My dd was around 4. It created such a stir in another parenting forum (elsewhere on the net) that mothers were weaning their toddlers because of the fear that it created. Trolls came out of the woodwork to tell us how sick we were. It was something unheard of before it happened, so the public reacted in strange ways. I'm thankful that respondentmother let the world know that breastfeeding a school-age child does happen, especially since she faced it without any amount of humility or regret (which resonated with me), but I am deeply saddened by the fear that it created in mothers.

You can either see her experience as positive or negative. You can let it scare you into weaning your child before he is ready, or you can take strength from it and let it help you fight ignorance eye-to-eye. She didn't let anyone bully her into changing what she knew was right.

My guess is that there are far more mothers than we know who breastfeed their school-age children. This is only ONE case. This one case is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Just like anything in life, there are risks that go along with anything, especially if you deviate from the "norm" (which changes with time as we all know), but that shouldn't scare anyone into conforming.

I admired her strength, and I took strength and courage from her situation. It did make me more cautious when before I was clueless (how could they do that?!), but most of all it gave me courage and strength knowing that I was not alone and that breastfeeding (and co-sleeping) is worth standing up for. I feel sorrow for the people who think that breastfeeding and sleeping with a child (at any age) is wrong. They obviously never got to feel that kind of comfort and love as a child or parent. It is a sad society we live in when parents are expected to make their children as detached as possible from themselves, then expect them to grow up as secure confident loving adults.


BTW, if my Mom said things like that to me, especially with dd around, I would tell her that it was none of her business, that I am my child's mother (not her), and that she needs to stop. You don't have to take it. Hopefully her love for you will outweigh her ignorance, and maybe she will even want to learn, but you don't have to take anyone's criticism or threats. Breastfeeding is a relationship between you and your child, nobody else.
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#11 of 25 Old 02-08-2005, 01:39 AM
 
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#12 of 25 Old 02-08-2005, 01:41 AM
 
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#13 of 25 Old 02-08-2005, 01:57 AM
 
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As I recall, eventually the judge tossed breastfeeding as an issue in Respondentmother's case, stating in no uncertain terms that that was not the problem.

Not that the local CPS paid much attention.... There were so many things wrong about that case, and that I gleaned just from the mainstream newspaper coverage. Things like that babysitter being made the foster mother. Things like said fostermother not taking RM's son to RM's church, but to her own instead....

I haven't heard from her in a very long time, so it's good to hear from Firemom that they were doing okay last she heard.

To the OP, don't let ignorance intimidate you into changing your parenting to something with which you are not comfortable. When I was catching flack over DS still nursing when he was soon to be 4, I finally pulled the "well if it's that much of a problem for you all, I guess we can refrain from visiting until he's weaned." card. Got no more flack after that and only a bit of teasing, and one incident with a sister, when DD was nursing at 3. But that's a strong weapon and can potentially backfire. OTOH if your mother knows without a doubt that you will set strong boundaries on this issue, she will hopefully realize that you will do the same on other issues and back off.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#14 of 25 Old 02-09-2005, 10:24 PM
 
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I can't see such a thing happening again. That one case was the only case I ever heard of, and it created a PR nightmare for CPS -- what they did was an outrage -- and I hope they learned their lesson. We now have the new statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics on our side, too. It clearly states that breastfeeding a child over the age of 3 is NOT harmful.

I think the best way for us to deal with things like this is by all of us breastfeeding our children in public as often as possible, openly and proudly. I think that the worst thing that we could do would be to wean our children out of fear. If we did that, the situation would get SO MUCH WORSE!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a 
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#15 of 25 Old 02-10-2005, 12:06 AM
 
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remind your mother that grandparents don't have legal rights to visitation in most cases, either. Any time you rely on the law to work out family disagreements, most people lose.
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#16 of 25 Old 02-11-2005, 06:59 PM
 
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I was nursing my 5 year old when all of this was going on. It was scarry! There have been other toddlers/young children taken from their mothers because they were breastfeeding.

My final divorce hearing was when my youngest (only child from second marriage) was around 18 months. Even though his father had never seen our son (we separated before birth), he tried to get custody because I was 'still' nursing. He didn't know - he only guessed because I had breastfeed my other children until 6 and almost 4. I knew the judge had a breastfeeding and homeschooling family. My son's father was awarded visitation on Sunday afternoons for 2 hours that didn't conflict with breastfeeding! This is an 18 month old! He (my son's father) was so mad he never bothered meeting his son.

: Grandmother , 3 Adult Sons

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#17 of 25 Old 02-18-2005, 10:08 PM
 
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Quote from callmeMama>>>>>>>>
But if someone is "threatening" you, I would avoid them like the plague, even it is a close family member. Why would you want to subject your child to comments like that, anyway?!<<<<<<<<<

You definitely have to decide what is right for your family and listen to you gut. However, I think we need to cut the older generation some slack....after all, they grew up thinnking that bottlefeeding was the only choice they had. With my own Mom, THANK GOD I had my 2 older sisters to have pathed the way. *Still*.....I was constantly catching any "teachable moment" with my Mom to educate her on the benefits of BFing until it no longer feels okay with either Mom or dc. MAybe you could provide medical data that would back you up with CLW?? MAybe a subscription to MOthering?



>>>>>>>>>>>
Quote from
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You can either see her experience as positive or negative. You can let it scare you into weaning your child before he is ready, or you can take strength from it and let it help you fight ignorance eye-to-eye. She didn't let anyone bully her into changing what she knew was right. <<<<<<<<<<

And this is where I failed. I was newly pregnant with ds. Dd was 4.2 yo. It hurt to nurse. I was recovering from major surgery. I read the headlines, and caved in. I already was suffering from Post Traumatic Syndrome,and was way too anxious. I had nightmares about CPS coming to take away dd.

And I totally regret weaning her then. She just stopped asking for it before her 8th BD.

This time around is going to be different. It has to.

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#18 of 25 Old 02-18-2005, 11:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamapoppins
Quote from callmeMama>>>>>>>>
But if someone is "threatening" you, I would avoid them like the plague, even it is a close family member. Why would you want to subject your child to comments like that, anyway?!<<<<<<<<<

You definitely have to decide what is right for your family and listen to you gut. However, I think we need to cut the older generation some slack....after all, they grew up thinnking that bottlefeeding was the only choice they had.
I don't think we need to cut them so much slack that we put up with someone threatening us with CPS. They have crossed the line. Especially if they say such a thing in front of the child in question. Can you imagine? A child having to hear that they could be taken away from their mother?

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a 
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#19 of 25 Old 02-18-2005, 11:49 PM
 
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I'm sorry if I misunderdstood the OP's post. If the OP's Mom is saying things like this in front of the dc, then I would definitely cut off relations for a while. However, I would still not give up in educating the family member.

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#20 of 25 Old 02-19-2005, 12:59 AM
 
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I don't know about the OP. I was referring to the quote that you responded to.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a 
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#21 of 25 Old 02-19-2005, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OK. Well, first, she mentioned this in front of my son initially. He was less than a year old at the time (I think). At the time, I didn't say anything, but it continued to bother me all day, so when ds went to sleep, I called her and told her plainly that it would not be acceptable for her to make ANY objections to my parenting style in front of my son. I told her how horrifying that thought would be for him if he understood it and told her that if it or anything similar happened again that she would never see him again. She has not made any such comments in front of him again. But she has brought it up repeatedly on the phone, making it sound like a reminder....just "You really need to cut him off; he doesn't need it; you are not going to damage him by telling him no...." and then when I counter that he will wean on his terms, she says it: "THEY could take him away from you." SO. She called me the other day. I said "I am glad you called, I have some really important information for you, hold on, I have it written down." Then I said, "First of all, it has taken me this long, but I finally did run down the details on this case where the child was taken from its mother for nursing. While this may have been one of the original charges, the judge stated absolutely that breast feeding was not an issue in the case and threw that charge out. Further, a judge today would have an even harder time trying to use such charges, as the AAP has released a new statement that says: (and I quoted, word for word). Also, you need to fully understand that grandparents in most states do not have any rights for visitation. And if you were thinking that you would be granted guardianship, think again, because...." Here she cut me off, indignantly, "You think I would try to take him away from you? I wouldn't do that; I have already raised my kids, and besides I wouldn't spare you from having to deal w your mistakes." SO. I guess she was not threatening me. I told her that I didn't know what to think because she kept bringing it up over and over, so yeah, it felt like a threat. Anyway. She said she wouldn't mention that again. But she proceeded to tell me all the reasons why she felt I am making a huge mistake by "giving in to him all the time" and criticized several things I do and don't do, mostly harping on gd being a mistake but moved back onto bf. I stopped her, figuring I might could solve the problem once and for all. I said "How do you even know he is still nursing?" She said, "Well, I know he is because you haven't said you have weaned him. Okay, is he still sucking on you?" I said, "That is none of your business. I don't want you to ask me or ds about it again. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?" She agreed.
Sigh. I will work on her further the next time she begins offering unsolicited pro-spanking advice.
Thanks for all ya'lls input here. I am pretty sure that this particular issue is over.
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#22 of 25 Old 02-19-2005, 01:39 AM
 
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Good for you for standing up to her!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a 
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#23 of 25 Old 02-19-2005, 02:30 AM
 
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Good for you MamaMillie!

I know how hard it can be to stand up to a mother who doesn't understand your way of parenting. My Mom is pro-spanking etc. too.

Jeesh, those are harsh words she used. You did good.
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#24 of 25 Old 02-19-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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I think you did a good job covering her objections. It's good to see the statement that she raised her kids, etc, coming from her. That's a start and possibly a good opening for you the next time such issues come up in conversation. If she thinks you are making mistakes, then they are YOUR mistakes to make. I don't think you're making one with GD or CLW btw. I think we made some by not being as adamant about GD with DS, but we've muddled through to the GD side with both since.

That AAP statement, for being a rather backhanded endorsement, is just what people need to hear I think. Harm is what they fear we are doing with SN and CLW, so a clear statement that there is none is just what is needed.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#25 of 25 Old 02-21-2005, 03:35 PM
 
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Sustainer-oops!! I did use someone else's quote!!

mamamillie- That is so awesome that you stood up to your Mom. You know, I really do think that when our Moms see us doing things so differently, it may make them feel(though they would never admit it!) that what *they* did was inferior-therefore they go on the attack, and being waay behind on recent medical research, and modern(smart!) professional's, they begin to feel defensive, and then get nastier.

I still say not to give up on your Mom-though my own tactics are through the written word: LLL articles and newsletters, or articles from Mothering,etc..

I remember saying to my Mom once that she did the best she knew, because that is what *her* generation did. Now, with medical and pyschological advancement and research, our generation can do things differently.

JMHO.....

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