I need a reminder... - Mothering Forums
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 23 Old 04-06-2005, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
Patchfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: S.S. Guns 'N' Handcuffs
Posts: 1,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of why I'm doing this ('this' being CLW, o/c).

Dd is 4.5 now, and while I had support for a long time, even those supportive people are, well, withdrawing that support. I feel like such a 'freak' in a lot of ways - I mean, sure, I know people who nursed past a year, and even past two years, but people who are nursing four year olds? Not that many around. And now with ds here, I'm reading about tandem nursing, and it's all about 'toddlers' and babies - and dd is definitely not a toddler anymore!

So I need a shot of confidence - an article, maybe, about the importance of CLW, or the benefits, or something... help!

Kash, homeschooling mommy to Gillian (8/5/00) and Jacob (3/23/05)
and Brigid Eleanor (11/20/08)
Patchfire is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 23 Old 04-06-2005, 06:13 PM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good for you! Applause applause!! Way to go Mama! Woo hoo! Good work!!!



Quote:
quote:although it is not the norm in most industrial cultures, UNICEF and the World Health Organization both advise breast-feeding to "two years and beyond." Indeed, a child's immune response does not reach its full strength until age five or so.
"How Breastmilk Protects Newborns"
by Dr. Jack Newman, Scientific American
http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/29.html

Quote:
There are unquestionable nutritional and economic advantages of sustained breastfeeding. Even beyond infancy young children return to the breast for comfort when they are sick...and thereby passively receive more food than others who are sick.
Dr. Ted Greiner, “Sustained Breastfeeding, Complementation and Care”:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/3156/care.htm

Quote:
Katherine Dettwyler…remembers when her younger son’s kindergarten teacher singled him and a schoolmate out. Why, the teacher wanted to know, were these two children so well adjusted, so sociable, so easy to get along with? What did they have in common?

“I said, “They’re the only two children in your class who are still nursing,” said Dettwyler. “Her mouth fell open and bounced on the floor.”

......

“Dr. Ruth Lawrence, who directs the Breastfeeding and Human Lactation Study Center at the University of Rochester School of Medicine in New York…herself a mother of 9, sat on the committee that drafted the American Academy of Pediatrics official position on breast feeding, published in 1997, which states that women should nurse for a year and “thereafter as long as mother and child wish.”

“They put no end date on it, “ said Lawrence. “They did that on purpose. They wanted to leave it up to the mother and baby.”

- “How long should a woman breast-feed?” Bo Emerson, Startribune.com Jan. 5, 2001

Quote:
Given that...humans living in non industrial circumstances...nurse for several years, says Dr. Gartner, researchers should be asking, what are the ill effects of early weaning?...

“The question is, are you doing any harm?” asks Gartner. Until you answer it, he says, “there truly is no basis for any upper limit,” says Gartner.
(Gartner= head of the breastfeeding committee at the AAP, forget their exact name)

“Breast-Feeding Beyond Babyhood, Melissa Healy,
http://www.latimes.com
Feb. 5, 2001)

Quote:
Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child....

Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother...

There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer.
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496

Quote:
“We have a tendency to look down on breast-feeding past a certain age in this country (USA), and it’s misguided,” says Dr. William Sears, a well-known pediatrician and co-author of The Breastfeeding Book. He sees nothing wrong with a mother breast-feeding a 5 year old who wants to. “We act surprised when a woman’s still breast-feeding her child, when really it should be the opposite. We should be saying:’What? You’ve stopped breastfeeding?’ “

...Sears remains adamant that debates over how much nutritional value an older child gets from breast-feeding are pointless. The real value, he says, is cultural. “These days, you open up a paper and read about kids shooting up schools,” Sears says. “In a nutshell, these are disconnected kids. But children who breast-feed a long time time, are, above all, connected. And our society could use a whole lot more connected kids.”
“Breast-Feeding: How Old is Too Old? “ Sara Corbett, New York Times, Feb. 18, 2001.


"You have so many women in the U.S. nursing past infancy that two books written on the subject have chapters on nursing past 4."
-(the late) Elizabeth Baldwin,“In Defense of Breast-Feeding,” Newsweek on www.msnbc.com, Dec. 15, 2000.

Quote:
.. nursing in many so-called “primitive” or natural societies lasts an average of 5 to 7 years, as it still does in many societies today. Nursing less is actually abnormal from that perspective, and it is my belief that this length of time was the norm for the tens of millions of years before we became “civilized”. Deliberate weaning by the mother is definitely a modern trend.

Anthropologists have reported that in those societies where extended breastfeeding is common, there is an increase in longevity. This is thought to be related to the immunizing function of nursing. As milk production decreases, the immune factors in breastmilk increase. As the human immune system is not fully developed until age 6, it is logical to assume that nursing for at least 6 years is Nature’s plan.

Still, even when we understand the reasons for extended nursing, it is only natural to experience doubts and indecision...In terms of the specific benefits of nursing, the longer (a child) nurses, the better... consider nursing as a decision “in progress”, allowing for continuation for as long as it is working for you and your son, and without remorse if you ever need to stop.
http://www.naturalchild.com/advice/q64.html

naturalchild.com, child psychologist Jan Hunt

I believe Jan posts at MDC by the way.

More good articles:

"Beyond Toddlerhood: The Breastfeeding Relationship Continues"
by Priscilla Young Colletto
http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleade...ebMar98p3.html

“The Nurse-able Twos” Jennifer Coburn
http://www.parenthood.com/articles.html?article_id=1821

"A Natural Age of Weaning" by Katherine Dettwyler, PhD
http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
#3 of 23 Old 04-06-2005, 06:36 PM
 
MamaAllNatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nearest chair with *ONE* nursling!
Posts: 6,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, maybe you don't know many IRL but you have a lot of us here!

Here's me w/4yo dd:



You're not the only one by far! Have you called your local LLL leaders? Many of them nurse their kids until they are 4 yo or longer. I don't know anyone else that's nursing a 4 yo IRL right now, just my friend whose ds is almost 3 yo. However, I know my Aunt who nursed a couple of her kids until they were 4 and my midwife who nursed hers until they were 4 & 6 so that helps.

You are doing an awesome thing! Try to remember how much more important dd is than what people think. Good for you for meeting her needs and sticking with it. it is so worth it and I'm sure she is so grateful for it.

MamaAllNatural is offline  
 
#4 of 23 Old 04-06-2005, 07:03 PM
 
UrbanPlanter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: at work
Posts: 5,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DS is just 3 now, but if I have another baby I'm sure we'll be tandeming when he is 4-5 years old. He still nurses so often that he is nowhere near weaning.

I think it's great what you are doing, and I hope to be doing it myself someday.
UrbanPlanter is offline  
#5 of 23 Old 04-06-2005, 08:03 PM
 
mother_sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Big Island
Posts: 2,216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went through the same thing when dd turned 4 (and 5 and 6) so I know how you feel.

When dd was 4 I didn't know about MDC yet, but I was a part of another online breastfeeding board where I received nearly all of my support and felt "normal" at a time when I was amongst mama friends IRL who were weaning their children so early. On that board, there were a few of us with 3yo's who were a tremendous support to one another. But once our babies turned 4 the support diminished almost immediately. The other mamas' children weaned "on their 4th birthday", I started getting frequent troll comments, I was made to feel like a freak and was constantly defending myself. All of this on a parenting forum that was geared towards "extended breastfeeding" (I hate that term btw) . While all of this was happening, IRL I was starting to lose dh's support, and the rest of the (extended) family was just completely dumfounded on what to say about it. I felt completely alone. But there was no way that I was going to make dd stop doing something she loved and needed so much, and that I knew in my heart and soul was the right thing. There is no shame in doing what is right for your child, especially something as wonderful and cherished as breastfeeding.

Luckily I found MDC and the support has been so wonderful since. Sometimes it feels like you are the "only one", but try to remember that we are here and we are real!

You probably have seen mamas around you IRL who are nursing but they too are afraid to come out of the closet. If you can find a LLL group, I wouldn't hesitate to join. By the time I found out about one here I thought dd was "too old" so I didn't join. But in retrospect, we would have benefitted greatly. I was always too worried about what other people would think. Only online could I totally be myself. But I have since learned that people (people worth knowing anyway) appreciate you just for being yourself, even (especially! in my book) if you are different from them.


Don't know if that helped meet your needs......just a little perspective from someone who has been there.
mother_sunshine is offline  
#6 of 23 Old 04-07-2005, 12:35 AM
 
TiredX2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: it appears to be a handbasket
Posts: 19,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)






I aspire to be you

 

 

TiredX2 is offline  
#7 of 23 Old 04-07-2005, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
Patchfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: S.S. Guns 'N' Handcuffs
Posts: 1,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you, all of you!

I think LLL must be different where I am... I've been going to a local group for the past three months or so, and dd is the oldest child there... by years. One of the leaders mentioned something after the main meeting about how she had nursed her oldest until 3.5 (her second is still nursing at 2.5), but that was it. Of course, she said she 'knew of' some leaders around the area who had nursed to four and past, but they obviously weren't at that meeting.

I actually had a Random Encounter after I posted this with a neighbor I hadn't met before (we moved here a year ago). She's six months pregnant with her third, but her first two are 17 and 15! We were discussing homebirth and she mentioned that she had nursed her dd (the 15 year old) until she was four. Her dd has said to her, now, 'thank you for never pushing me away before I was ready.'

Kash, homeschooling mommy to Gillian (8/5/00) and Jacob (3/23/05)
and Brigid Eleanor (11/20/08)
Patchfire is offline  
#8 of 23 Old 04-07-2005, 11:18 AM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know you're a dedicated mom when your child is by far the oldest nursling in the LLL group/town/county.... sounds familiar

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
#9 of 23 Old 04-07-2005, 11:52 AM
 
darlindeliasmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 1,170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
patchfire: I know I was lucky that when I joined LLL with the idea of clw, I ran into 2 leaders who were doing the same thing. One nursed all 3 of her kids past 5, and the othe was nursing a 3-yr-old when I met her. He weaned soon after, I think while she was pregnant with her twins...

One day when dd was about 2 1/2 and I was starting to get the heat, i met a mom on a walkathon (dd was in the sling, and this mom dropped back to keep me company)...we got talking and she pointed out her tall 20 yr old son and said he'd nursed til he was past 4. He smiled shily and said, "best thing she ever did!" I carried that young guy's fondness for his mom and his memories with me over the next years, as support dried up. I still always had that one leader, and I would talk privately to her about my concerns.

anyway, dd was MADE intense, persistent, and sensitive. Nursing as long as she did helped her deal with the more negative repercussions of her personality, and also helped her blossom out the positive sides of it. She KNOWS I'm in her corner, that people matter more than things...I'm amazed at how alone so many kids seem, how they seem to be figuring the world out all on their own. That's not dd; oh, she'll get into the trenches and fight it out (she's a big one for standing up for the underdog), but when things get confusing, she regroups, and we can really talk. THAT'S why you nurse past 4--to make your child strong and resilient in the face of the crap the world throws at him.

OK. End of sermon...Good luck tandeming!!
darlindeliasmom is offline  
#10 of 23 Old 04-08-2005, 12:31 PM
 
callmemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
momtwice, what fantastic links! I loved the quote from Katherine Dettwyler about the two most well-adjusted kindergartners in the class were the ones still nursing! :LOL
callmemama is offline  
#11 of 23 Old 04-08-2005, 12:41 PM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks callmemama!

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemama
momtwice, what fantastic links! I loved the quote from Katherine Dettwyler about the two most well-adjusted kindergartners in the class were the ones still nursing! :LOL

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
#12 of 23 Old 04-15-2005, 02:47 PM
 
nicholas_mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 936
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Her dd has said to her, now, 'thank you for never pushing me away before I was ready.'
This made me . OK I think I will re-think night weaning my ds at 2 yrs old.

Thanks!!!
nicholas_mom is offline  
#13 of 23 Old 04-20-2005, 09:59 PM
 
Lousli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,365
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks! Just dropping by for a quick read and it helped reaffirm my tandem nursing. I've taken a lot of flak for it, esp. with a preemie baby...as if, somehow, I can't make enough milk and time and love for both of them!
Lousli is offline  
#14 of 23 Old 04-21-2005, 12:05 PM
 
OlfactoryHues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: the land of tandem nursing
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you are doing a wonderful thing.


Jenn
OlfactoryHues is offline  
#15 of 23 Old 04-21-2005, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
Patchfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: S.S. Guns 'N' Handcuffs
Posts: 1,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks everyone

I feel much better now than I was... I think some of it was just feeling overwhelmed with two nurslings - even if the older one doesn't nurse much! I've been able to see now, though, how much the continued nursing has helped her with this *major* change in her life.

Kash, homeschooling mommy to Gillian (8/5/00) and Jacob (3/23/05)
and Brigid Eleanor (11/20/08)
Patchfire is offline  
#16 of 23 Old 04-23-2005, 02:14 AM
 
Wildflower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 863
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Wow, mamas, this thread is so inspiring! Thanks everybody. Come this summer, I'll have a 4 year old nursing dd...and I secretly hope she wants to nurse for years beyond that. Its just a beautiful connection, with so many, many benefits. Thanks again.
Wildflower is offline  
#17 of 23 Old 04-23-2005, 06:08 AM
 
Mira75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm awe! I hope I manage to bf my son for many years to come. now I know where to seek help and "cheering on" (sorry I have no dictionary yet, therfore this poor english...).
Mira75 is offline  
#18 of 23 Old 04-23-2005, 09:34 AM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira75
I'm awe! I hope I manage to bf my son for many years to come. now I know where to seek help and "cheering on" (sorry I have no dictionary yet, therfore this poor english...).
Your English is good! We have the expression "cheering on" here in the USA too.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
#19 of 23 Old 04-23-2005, 04:35 PM
 
mom2threenurslings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the midst of chaos in CT
Posts: 2,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's WONDERFUL that you continue to meet your child's *needs* by providing him with nourishment of body, mind and spirit in such a simple way...through nursing. It's fantastic that you do this although you don't have much IRL support...and that you trust your instincts and strive to follow your child's lead.

You aren't a freak. Not nearly. I am proud to hold that title and you can't have it! :LOL Members of my family (who have no choice but to be supportive because I don't give them a choice!) have actually commented to people that I'm a freak but they love me anyway! (I'm tandem nursing my 4.75 year old and my almost-3 year old and am 19 weeks pregnant...I have my tongue pierced, 9 tattoos, and yet can look "normal" enough to have been a church secretary for 4 years! I triandem nursed my first three children for over 18 months until my oldest self-weaned on his fifth birthday and will probably be triandem nursing a 5 year old, a 3 year old and a newborn in September.) The next time someone thinks you're odd for nursing your child so long, just tell them about me! :LOL

to you

and

:nana: to those who no longer support you!

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

mom2threenurslings is offline  
#20 of 23 Old 05-10-2005, 09:35 AM
 
Momtwice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bumping up for another 4 year old and mom

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
Momtwice is offline  
#21 of 23 Old 05-10-2005, 12:00 PM
 
Mama2ABCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: following cubs up a mountain
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I loved the quote from Katherine Dettwyler about the two most well-adjusted kindergartners in the class were the ones still nursing!
i remember reading an article that contained that quote almost 5 years ago (my dad had clipped it from the newspaper and mailed it too me). i came across that saved clipping a little while ago tucked in a book. i remember thinking when i first saw the article "wow, how cool", but at the time i couldn't imagine my pudgy little infant past the age of 1. now he's a little boy, in pre-K and will be in kindergarten at the end of July when his younger brother starts pre-K. and they both still nurse. and "well adjusted" has been used by others to describe them i'm living that quote :LOL
Mama2ABCD is offline  
#22 of 23 Old 05-10-2005, 12:06 PM
 
Mama2ABCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: following cubs up a mountain
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
for you patchfire! i bet you've influenced other mom's who haven't nursed as long as you to keep on nursing
Mama2ABCD is offline  
#23 of 23 Old 05-10-2005, 03:04 PM
 
RubyWild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Momtwice, thanks for bumping this for me. Reading it meant a lot to me, especially those quotes. I always try to remember how important it is to me to remain connected. The truth is, really and truly, I'm not ready for her to wean or to stop co-sleeping. I would grieve heartily if she did right now, but somehow I needed to give myself permission to raise that arbitrary self-weaning age from 4 to whenever. I mean, I always planned for her to self-wean when she was ready, but I assumed she'd do it by the age of 4.
RubyWild is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,086

4 members and 1,082 guests
caregroupe043 , emmy526 , Hyacinthe
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.