Why does nursing need to be so great? - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really don't get it.

I haven't really enjoyed changing my child's diaper for the last 11 months. It's okay, I guess, but I'm sure she can tell I don't really enjoy it. So I'm going to stop. Hey, I did it for 11 months. I could keep going, but she doesn't really *need* it, I can just give her a bath every night and she'll be fine. Go ahead, flame me.

Changing clothes.
Putting down for a nap.
Taking to the doctor.
etc...

Can't nursing just be something you do? For some people it's great. For others it's only okay, or not that great. I'm not talking about people who feel physically ill, or hate it, or have their skin crawling, etc... when they nurse. I'm talking about people who it is not a *wonderful* experience for. Why does it have to be so great?

(and yes, I know this is rehashed every so often, but it is on my mind)

 

 

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#2 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 05:51 PM
 
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Get out of my head! That is an often thought of mine that has been near the surface lately. I hate whole- well it didn't feel right for us, there there that's okay, you have to do what feels right for you, it's okay- crap. I don't think breastfeeding should be a CHOICE at all. It's having babies that's the choice. Choose to have babies, nurse. Seems simple enough (I know I know, there are women who can't- not talking about them- yes, formula needs to exist for those FEW cases) BUT I don't think elective sections should be a choice either And definitely shouldn't be covered by insurance.

Flame away- hey, I'm making friends left and right these days....

-Angela
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#3 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 05:53 PM
 
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You won't be getting any flames from me

~Rebecca~
mama to a sweet girl , & 4 silly boys

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#4 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:05 PM
 
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I was thinking about that yesterday & today both... sort of the result of seeing two different groups of mamas & babes over a two-day time period. Some things are choices - I don't agree with only dressing a boy in football-themed clothing, but hey, if you like it, go ahead. I'll keep dressing mine how I want, and we're both good. But no one ever questions that, as the OP says, you have to change a diaper. You have to use a carseat (no matter how much the babe hates it ). You have to keep the baby in some clothing. All of those have an unspoken 'whether you like it or not.' And I don't understand why it becomes 'you have to enjoy the manner in which you feed your babe.'

It probably doesn't help matters that there are people (Heck, I'm guilty of it from time to time) who DO go on about how much they enjoy it. Can't win for losing!

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and Brigid Eleanor (11/20/08)
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#5 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:14 PM
 
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I'm willing to let lots of stuff slide- you like disposable diapers? fine. You want to dress your kids in all tv character clothing? Go for it. You want every toy in the house to have batteries? Your choice. BUT if you decide to bring babies into this world- at least give them what they have coming for them. Every other mammal on earth is entitled to breastmilk- why not humans? [insert standard disclaimers here about the situations where something goes wrong]

Why does your baby deserve less than the baby rats in your attic? Less than the baby raccoons in your backyard?

I guess it's because we're a "higher animal" We have the power to choose to short-change our offspring.

-Angela
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#6 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:21 PM
 
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I agree! I think in our society we are conditioned to think things should be enjoyable and easy all the time.

About diapers---I think people SHOULD have to "get their hands dirty"(not nessecarily, but I wanted to use that phrase) and do cloth.Take responsibility for their kids poop and not just throw away

About parenting-Wake up people!There is no quick fix,it takes lots of time, love and effort.

About nursing-Just do it! Who cares what we think!? I mean, seriously,isn't parenting about giving up certain things for our children?Such as selfishness? Suck it up:LOL

(Ok, please don't flame meJust wanted to add my two cents and not trying to be insensitive to special cases)

I think it is every human beings right to be BF and have a healthy start in life.Period.

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
.
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#7 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
I guess it's because we're a "higher animal" We have the power to choose to short-change our offspring.

-Angela
That is *so* sig worthy!

 

 

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#8 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
Why does your baby deserve less than the baby rats in your attic? Less than the baby raccoons in your backyard?
:

Ruth, single mommy to 3 quasi-adults
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#9 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:51 PM
 
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One of my dh's favorite lines- stolen from a favorite college prof- this is NOT burger king. You don't get to have it your way. Life doesn't work like that.

But that's the problem- people want burger king.

Hmmm, maybe I'll add that other quote to my sig... what I really need is a senior name though....

-Angela
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#10 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 06:53 PM
 
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I hear ya! For me, nursing has never been the euphoric experience many describe. There have been many times I wanted to be done.....but.....I look into my baby boy's big brown eyes and know that I can't deny him something that is so good for him (and ME) and that he loves and enjoys so much! For what? So I can fit back into my old tops? So I don't have to wear industrial-sized bras? So I can eat dairy again (not that good for me anyway)? So I can "have my body back" whatever that means?

No thanks, that's okay, plenty of time for all that when he's done nursing (right now I'm thinking that'll be, um, COLLEGE :LOL ).
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#11 of 30 Old 08-11-2005, 07:55 PM
 
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WHy does nursing need to be so great? Because we're a society that does things based on the level of pleasure it gives us, not because we HAVE TO! What a ridiculous idea- to do something because you have to. Yeah, I have to change diapers, but I can potty train my kid very early and stop doing that when I get sick of it. There is a limit to the number of things I can handle doing that I actually HAVE to do, you know! If *I* don't get something out of it, I don't want to do it. :

ITA!!! Breastmilk is a birthright. Formula is to be used in the case that breastfeeding is impossible (medically or physically).

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

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#12 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 03:14 AM
 
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I've seen like 5 statements in this thread that are def. sig-worthy!

Sar
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#13 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 01:38 PM
 
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all ya'll.

(I don't post in here to regularly because my DS is only 14 months old, but my heart is right there with you!)

And I am sorely tempted to plagarize many of you, but I wont.... without permission, of course.

I think what I don't understand is, the whole CHOICE facter of formula. I work with a woman who isn't a mother yet, but after I had my DS, we were talking about breastfeeding, adn she made a comment like "thank god there is formula. I could never have a baby suck my tit." I was so horribly offended. I was saddened for her future baby (she and her H are TTC). Why does it have to be about CHOICE anyway? Why are we such a "do what feels good" society? Breastfeeding has not always "felt good" per se to me. It has hurt more times than I can count, it has exhausted me, it has ruined clothing, soiled my bed, made my skin crawl, you name it. But it isn't like that all the time, and rest assured the knowledge that it is my child's birthright helps me through the tough times, the painful times, the non-support times when it seems everyone is against my nursing relationship with my son. That fact that he has only been sick one time in his life assures me. His chubby cheeks, his fat thighs (which are so cute on him and so ugly on me :LOL ), his dimpled smile, his eyes rolling back in extacy when he laches on.... these signs tell me I am truly doing the right thing for my child despite any opposition.

Wifey to Hubby, Mama to Boy (2004) and Girl (2009). 
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#14 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 02:08 PM
 
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I happen to like BF *a lot*, but if I found myself hating it and that hatred spilling over to my relationship with my daughter, well that would be grounds for stopping. There are two people involved here, the baby and the mom, not just the baby - that's why choice is important to me as it relates to BF, in a theoretical sense. The overall health of the relationship and bond between mom and baby, two people with needs, has to be paramount. I don't think that's what the original post is asking about, though.
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#15 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:42 PM
 
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my dh says that alot, "what's the big deal, it's a natural thing. it's what breasts are made for. etc."
but, it's a big deal when the majority of moms that you know (IRL) have breastfed briefly or not all because of choice. and it's not because they are looking for a "wonderful" experience, they are looking for what they learned to be convenience or they basically know nothing of breastfeeding and don't care to learn.
heck, i've got neigbors that tell me they didn't breastfeed because they already went 9 mos without beer and cigs, painpills, etc. and that was 9 mos too long.
the first baby born didn't have a stack of diapers and an apgar score waiting. only mommy's loving arms and a nice warm breast to suck. but, that was more for survival and today we have suckered ourselves (society has) into believing that manmade is best, the more you have, choices, be selfish, etc.
it's getting back to the basics that usually people find true contentment! and that is breastfeeding is one of the basics.
mother nature(and/or God) has given us what we need to survive and man just wants to take it away.
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#16 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna



Why does your baby deserve less than the baby rats in your attic? Less than the baby raccoons in your backyard?

I guess it's because we're a "higher animal" We have the power to choose to short-change our offspring.

-Angela

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#17 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:49 PM
 
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I bf.

I think it's sad and pathetic how selfish some people are.
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#18 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2threenurslings
WHy does nursing need to be so great? Because we're a society that does things based on the level of pleasure it gives us, not because we HAVE TO! What a ridiculous idea- to do something because you have to. Yeah, I have to change diapers, but I can potty train my kid very early and stop doing that when I get sick of it. There is a limit to the number of things I can handle doing that I actually HAVE to do, you know! If *I* don't get something out of it, I don't want to do it. :

ITA!!! Breastmilk is a birthright. Formula is to be used in the case that breastfeeding is impossible (medically or physically).
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#19 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kirstie
mother nature(and/or God) has given us what we need to survive and man just wants to take it away.
so true! If there is money to be made, man will be there :
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#20 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 04:55 PM
 
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Nothing new to add, just a "I hear you, mamas."

Amanda
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#21 of 30 Old 08-12-2005, 07:36 PM
 
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Ditto to just about everything I've read here! I've even taken to calling cow's milk "cow's breastmilk" to more accurately describe it. Maybe it will get some people to think.
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#22 of 30 Old 08-13-2005, 11:31 AM
 
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Great thoughts mamas, I thought about this alot lately, I'm glad some put it into words.

There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.
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#23 of 30 Old 08-13-2005, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchfire
You have to keep the baby in some clothing.
You do? :

I kid you not, I'm reading this as I was about to slip my dd into the rebozo butt naked to avoid waking or overheating her as we walk a couple of miles to the park to swim. I've been known to do this when she was awake, too.

I agree that nursing doesn't need to be great, but I do think it should be a choice, because as someone said, there are women out there for whom it's worse than just a chore, or very difficult/impossible for practical but non-medical reasons. I wish this were not the case. We should work on *making* it not the case for more women! But the consequences for babies of making formula prescription-only, for example, would be disastrous. And feeding formula, for whatever reason, is different from neglect.

Btw, since many people have mentioned them, diapers are in fact NOT necessary. I have been pottying my baby from birth and the closest to a diaper she ever wears now is non-waterproof training pants. I think this is great, demonstrably better for most babies, and I would recommend it to anyone. However, I don't think you should have to do it if you feel it would be worse than full-time diapering, for your family! There is more than one way to approach almost anything.

Oye Yemaya oloto
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#24 of 30 Old 08-14-2005, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by callmemama
Ditto to just about everything I've read here! I've even taken to calling cow's milk "cow's breastmilk" to more accurately describe it. Maybe it will get some people to think.

I love that. I never even thought of that in that way. From now on, I'm referring to all milk like that (cow, goat ect)
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#25 of 30 Old 08-14-2005, 11:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eminer
You do? :
Hee, okay, how about 'you have to keep them warm in cold weather, in some way'?

Kash, homeschooling mommy to Gillian (8/5/00) and Jacob (3/23/05)
and Brigid Eleanor (11/20/08)
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#26 of 30 Old 08-15-2005, 12:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by callmemama
Ditto to just about everything I've read here! I've even taken to calling cow's milk "cow's breastmilk" to more accurately describe it. Maybe it will get some people to think.
Seriously! On another board someone recently shared that she was glad her mother didn't BF her because the idea of getting milk from her mother's breast grossed her out. Getting milk from a cow's teat though was apparently a-ok. To me that was like saying "I'm glad my mom had me by c-section because the idea of coming out of her vagina grosses me out." I mean hello this was an adult woman. She acknowledged she had a bit of hangup but seemed unaware that she still got Bm it was just cow's BM.

On the issue of choice one of my friend has talked to me about BFing quite a bit as she was starting to TTC. To me it wasn't even really something to discuss. I thought I was just giving her interesting information. Then one day she says to me "so I think I have decided BFing is the way to go." I said oh that's good but inside I was thinking "wait this was even in question?!"

I'll freely admit I often don't like nursing my toddler. There have been times when I laid next to my toddler nursing her to sleep where I wanted to jump out of my skin. There have been times when I didn't have my skin crawl but just kind of felt nothing toward it. In fact until she was a few months old I certainly didn't feel any bonding toward it. But you know what? Neither of my girls ever had a drop of formula. You don't have to love it to do it. Like all relationships it goes in cycles. Sometimes you feel the rush of euphoria and some days it's like the comfortable old shoe and sometimes it's maddening but it's still what's best for your child's body and developing little self so you suck it up and do it even if it's not always wonderful.
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#27 of 30 Old 08-15-2005, 01:34 PM
 
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Ok, I'm a speciest. But I think cow teats are kind of gross.
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#28 of 30 Old 08-17-2005, 04:54 PM
 
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I think that promoting breastfeeding as this ultimate feminine experience, all squishy and lovely and totally self-obliterating--and this is all a really good thing--is actually detrimental to improving BF rates here. I mean, YES, we need to change the idea that BF is gross, but on the other hand, lapsing into a new definition which says it's a religious experience (implying that it SHOULD be a religious experience) is maybe not so helpful either.

Not that it isn't sometimes like that! but I think if our culture thought of it as just something everybody did--rather than something which must either be yukky or transcendent--it would help a lot to make it normal. Right now, alas, it's still not normal, and I think mothers who tend to be insecure about their parenting--and we all know there are plenty of them out there--are going to be more likely to stop BF or not even start when they discover they aren't going into ecstacies over it. For them it just becomes another failure. You could say the same for exercising--we have to make it into this product to consume, almost, rather than just something everyone does. Using walking as a primary form of transportation is about as common as breastfeeding past 3 months these days. But neither walking nor BF should be a big deal to anybody.

One other issue which affects BF rates, and which moralizing does NOT help with--plenty of women don't BF because they have to go back to work for financial reasons when their babies are still little, and their workplaces are not conducive to pumping (say, you are cleaning hotel rooms, or work in a factory)--or their child care providers will not handle breast milk. Many minority women and single moms are in this boat, and they are most certainly not responsive to the glowing, emotional, and ultimately judgmental assertions of the superiority of BF by white women who have either the luxury of staying home or the kind of job that allows for numerous daily pumping breaks. So we need to think about these women too.
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#29 of 30 Old 08-17-2005, 06:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemama
Ditto to just about everything I've read here! I've even taken to calling cow's milk "cow's breastmilk" to more accurately describe it. Maybe it will get some people to think.
LOL!!
Best thing I have hear all week. I can see my DS catching onto this quick! Please pass the cow na-nees!
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#30 of 30 Old 08-17-2005, 07:20 PM
 
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Two thoughts.

1. Did any of you see the Calvin and Hobbes comic about cow's milk? They are looking at a cow on a hill, and the conversation is as follows:

CALVIN: The more you look at things, the weirder they seem.
TAke this bowl of cereal for instance. Why do we drink COW milk? I mean, who was the guy who came up to a cow and looked at it's udder and said 'Gee I think I will drink whatever liquid comes out of these tubes when I squeeze em'!' Isn't that weird?

HOBBES:...I think all discussions should be kept to a minimum until AFTER breakfast...


2. As much as want my friends, who haven't yet had babies, to see the joy of breastfeeding, I almost think it's MORE of a "duty" to show them that sometimes it's not perfect. The other day I was at a friend's, nursing my near-15 month old, and he did his "I think I'll nurse while sitting forward in Molly's lap" trick. Looks terrible, doesn't feel *all* that great, but it's where he's at in his development, and if he's nursing like that gently, I allow it. My friend was a bit boggled at it, but I think it's good to show her that it's not all dimmed lights and fuzzy halos around the scene, baby quietly suckling while music plays in the background. Sometimes the kid is squirming, the mom is sweating, the boob is showing despite all efforts to keep modest (I'm not a huge fan of anyone who doesn't live with me seeing my breasts)...but it's a fabulous, easy, cheap, and nutritious way to feed a little one. Period.

I'm really vocal about some things, even when my vocalization turns people away. But I've found with breastfeeding (and being vegetarian), just quietly living my life works better. And so I nurse my babe in front of my friends.
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