My hair test results... *Updated with DS's results - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 9 Old 07-18-2009, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I got my hair test results back yesterday. It seems like I do have some not good stuff happening (surprise, surprise *sarcasm*) that might explain why we're still having issues and losing foods on and off. At a first glance, I don't think I have mercury issues per Cutler's rules, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also nursing almost exclusively still, so I know that can skew the results. Here's a link to my results... you should be able to zoom in on it to look at it closer. Steph's Hair Elements Results
Alex's Hair Elements

I've got an appointment set with my osteopath on the 28th. I'd love all of your $0.02 in the meanwhile - what supps and stuff I should probably go ahead and try to start. Obviously the lead, arsenic, and cadmium were concerning as was the magnesium (particularly because I was sort of supping it at the time - adding a pinch of epsom salt to all of my water).

I put DS's hair sample in the mail today, so we'll see what he's got going on in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping he's got nothing majorly toxic happening, but at the same time it might be good to have a reason that he isn't gaining weight.

Steph, Mama to Alex (04/08) We :::
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#2 of 9 Old 07-19-2009, 12:43 AM
 
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I can't see your result, because you have to sign up for a SnapFish account to see it; and I really don't want to open another account with another photo host. Perhaps you should change it, and put it up on Picasa or something, so you get more input.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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#3 of 9 Old 07-19-2009, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hmm, it should have let you look at it without an account, but here... I've uploaded it to Photobucket, too. Hopefully this one will work! Steph's Hair Elements
Thank you for telling me.

Steph, Mama to Alex (04/08) We :::
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#4 of 9 Old 07-19-2009, 01:41 AM
 
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I looked it over, here's a link for anyone interested to Cutler's counting rules to determine whether mercury toxicity is an issue...

https://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30
post 582

I agree that you aren't meeting any of Cutler's counting rules and none look close, so that's one good thing. Do you have amalgam fillings? If you do, I'm assuming you are excreting the mercury at a reasonable rate (I think almost everybody stores a bit, but if you excrete most of it, you'll be doing well), and if you don't have amalgams, yay! Even better.

Cutler says that lead in the yellow is problematic. Most toxic metals don't cause outright toxicity til they reach the red, and some in the red are fine, but lead is the exception. So I'd probably view that as the main problem, and the other metals are a bit elevated as being secondary and probably somewhat related.

You should probably consider blood tests for yourself and everyone else in your household to see if the lead is a current exposure issue. And check water quality reports for your area, things like that to look for where it came from and when. I typed up some stuff on lead toxicity in Chlobo's thread...
https://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1050281

It wasn't on the first page, I don't think, but should be there by the 2nd page, maybe the 3rd. Discusses old exposure a bit, symptoms and such.

I don't have the books next to me right now, I remember that he says that if emotional volatility is a problem and lithium is low, lithium orotate can be supplemented--this is much lower dose lithium than most people are familiar with. But it seems like most people who order hair tests have low lithium, so I'm thinking there's something systematic about the common stresses we have that leads to this, even when the underlying issues are different.

Have you done any reading on folate and MTHFR? Here's a quick intro from whoMe's page...
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

May want to read her methylation page too..
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/methyl.php

I think a few of these metals are often detoxified by methylation, I've got some various chemicals and metals listed out by how our bodies excrete them, let me find that link...
https://mothering.com/discussions/sho...1060720&page=4

Though I think lead is a methylation pathway metal, seems like the lead could fill up the methylation bandwidth and then the other metals would build up, even separate from the folate issue (the people who need 2x the folate as everyone else). Folate and B12 are key for methylation.

Magnesium gets low easily, I'd just supp more, maybe play around with how much you can take to get to bowel tolerance. And if that seems a bit low, consider other forms of magnesium and maybe taurine.

I'll try to look up more tomorrow, in the meantime you may want to skim chlobo's thread since her lead is also problematic and some of this stuff is typed up there. You could copy/paste over here to keep things together.
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#5 of 9 Old 07-19-2009, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
I looked it over, here's a link for anyone interested to Cutler's counting rules to determine whether mercury toxicity is an issue...

https://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30
post 582

I agree that you aren't meeting any of Cutler's counting rules and none look close, so that's one good thing. Do you have amalgam fillings? If you do, I'm assuming you are excreting the mercury at a reasonable rate (I think almost everybody stores a bit, but if you excrete most of it, you'll be doing well), and if you don't have amalgams, yay! Even better.

No amalgams or known mercury exposure sources, so I agree... that is a good thing.

Cutler says that lead in the yellow is problematic. Most toxic metals don't cause outright toxicity til they reach the red, and some in the red are fine, but lead is the exception. So I'd probably view that as the main problem, and the other metals are a bit elevated as being secondary and probably somewhat related.

You should probably consider blood tests for yourself and everyone else in your household to see if the lead is a current exposure issue. And check water quality reports for your area, things like that to look for where it came from and when. I typed up some stuff on lead toxicity in Chlobo's thread...
https://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1050281

It wasn't on the first page, I don't think, but should be there by the 2nd page, maybe the 3rd. Discusses old exposure a bit, symptoms and such.

So, when I started getting more reactive again (winter), DS and I were spending a LOT of time at my dad's house. I am suspecting that his house is the source of whatever exposure I have. We're going to test his water (well water, in a house without lead pipes but with lead solder) and our water (city water, which was ok per the report I got last month in the mail, but coming through possibly in some old pipes but I doubt it - it was originally built in 1926 but was gutted and sold as new construction in 2003). That big period of time at my dad's is also when DS started reacting more and dropped significantly on his growth curves. DS's ped blood tested him for lead at his 12 month appointment in April, and it was ok (4 whatevertheunit, lab's reference range is that as long as it is below 10 it is ok, ped prefers it below 5) but by then we hadn't been at my dad's quite so much for a month or two. Next appointment my dad has with the doctor, I'm getting him blood tested - it would make 100% sense if his house is the source, because he's got serious mental and health issues that could totally be caused by lead.

I don't have the books next to me right now, I remember that he says that if emotional volatility is a problem and lithium is low, lithium orotate can be supplemented--this is much lower dose lithium than most people are familiar with. But it seems like most people who order hair tests have low lithium, so I'm thinking there's something systematic about the common stresses we have that leads to this, even when the underlying issues are different.

I wonder if this could also play into anxiety? I just asked DH if he'd consider me emotionally volatile - his answer, "Uh... yeah." Totally going to talk to my DO about this.

Have you done any reading on folate and MTHFR? Here's a quick intro from whoMe's page...
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

May want to read her methylation page too..
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/methyl.php


I read through these a while ago and the MTHFR part didn't seem to fit me very well, but the methylation did, so I'm definitely going to read through them both again.

I think a few of these metals are often detoxified by methylation, I've got some various chemicals and metals listed out by how our bodies excrete them, let me find that link...
https://mothering.com/discussions/sho...1060720&page=4

Though I think lead is a methylation pathway metal, seems like the lead could fill up the methylation bandwidth and then the other metals would build up, even separate from the folate issue (the people who need 2x the folate as everyone else). Folate and B12 are key for methylation.

Magnesium gets low easily, I'd just supp more, maybe play around with how much you can take to get to bowel tolerance. And if that seems a bit low, consider other forms of magnesium and maybe taurine.

I'll look for a magnesium supplement when I go to the HFS today. Is there anything in particular I should look for in one? I've already got taurine at the house for cat food making purposes... I'll just swipe some from them.

I'll try to look up more tomorrow, in the meantime you may want to skim chlobo's thread since her lead is also problematic and some of this stuff is typed up there. You could copy/paste over here to keep things together.
Thank you so much, Tanya!

Steph, Mama to Alex (04/08) We :::
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#6 of 9 Old 07-19-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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I'm glad your dad can get a test too, very cool if this could be solving an issue for all three of you!

Also, while I'd agree that a 4 on the blood test isn't extremely elevated, my impression based on tangentially-related reading is that most kids do come back with 0, 1, and occasionally 2, so I agree that it's plausible that it was trending down after the winter exposure.

Here's some interesting stuff about lithium... hair lithium is believed to accurately reflect body burden when mineral transport is orderly, Li varies greatly depending on local soil and rocks (and thus food). Lithium is calming and mood stabilizing. Very high dosages of lithium, like they use for bipolar, inhibit thyroid function, but nutritional supps of lithium are much, much lower dose.

Low levels seem to correlate with poor mood and lack of emotional control.

He says if hair lithium is <0.04 (the lower limit of detection), take lithium (either orotate or aspartate), and usually supps also contain some vanadium, and that's fine, take it with meals. It looks like lithium orotate supps are usually around 5mg of actual lithium (and 120-ish mg of lithium orotate). I was googling a bit, and I can't tell if lithium carbonate (the kind used for bipolar) has a lot less real lithium per weight, but it's looking like people are using 1500-1800mg of lithium carbonate for bipolar. When you talk to your DO, make sure to emphasize the low-dose part or they may flip out.

We're using Now's magnesium citrate, it's a powder and fairly economical. I'm going to figure out where to buy online because I'm sure that'll be cheaper than buying locally for us. I'd get a citrate, aspartate, glycinate, like that, don't get mag oxide, it's not well-absorbed. Glycinate is probably the best out there, but I couldn't find it locally and citrate's cheaper and seems to be working for us.

At some point I should get a hair test for myself and see what's going on.
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#7 of 9 Old 07-28-2009, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So an update on us after my appointment with the DO...

The first thing he wants me to do is start on Vitamin C to bowel tolerance. I'm gonna get sodium ascorbate, any suggestions on brand? We'll also probably be putting kiddo on it sometime in the next few weeks. Then I'm adding magnesium - I bought Natural Calm the other day. He jumped on the low lithium and wants me to take the lithium orotate that you mentioned. I'm going to continue with the tons of water kefir and fermented foods.

We ran bloodwork - serum lead level and D3 today. If D3 comes back low, obviously I'll be supping that as well. We talked about CLO - he was suggesting krill oil instead but didn't seem opposed to HV CLO, and he says that it would be good for DS as well. I also have to talk to ImmunoLabs about another IgG panel, because my insurance will only cover them and LabCorp, but the LabCorp test is not overly useful for me because it just doesn't contain enough of the foods I'm curious about. He wrote that up so insurance should cover it, though.

As for the lead stuff... we're still waiting to get my dad's blood lead levels back and see if he's got significant exposure. We also have probably a week-ish until DS's hair test comes back. Since then, I've discovered that our house which was rehabbed and sold to my husband as "new construction" about 5 years ago... HAS FLAKING LEAD PAINT. It's on the threshold for the front door, so every time we go in and out, we are probably tracking it all over the floor. I just figured out that there might be a risk yesterday and then got home tests for it this morning. DH and I are going to try to deal with this pretty quickly though, and needless to say we're going to try and figure out if this should not have been still hanging around after the rehab. We're going to have DS's blood lead levels checked again soon, probably right after his hair test results come back. ::

I've got to post an update on DS... but I'll do that over on his vinegary poop thread. He seems to be doing ok with the solids we've added back in!

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#8 of 9 Old 08-10-2009, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, a brief update... DS's hair test came back. Alex's Hair Elements. I don't have time to post as much as I would like. (We're hitting the "I'm so overtired that I'm going to run around cackling and chasing the cats like I'm a sumo wrestler" part of the evening ) Briefly though... DS had 10 of the toxic elements in the yellow. Mercury was not one of them, but he meets one of Cutler's counting rules from what I read... but does that even apply with a kid who has so many other heavy metals? Anyhow, after seeing how much he's got going on with metals I'm very thankful that we don't see any developmental issues... at 16 months, he's saying a dozen or so words, walking, running, climbing, exceptionally social, and not sensory-seeking. Our only real problem right now is that he doesn't eat many solids and he's not gaining weight, because he seems to have mild/moderate intolerances to a lot of foods. We're even at baseline, so I'm kind of hesitant to do much in the way of supps... but dude... that variety of metals just can't be good for a growing boy. At least he's growing in height, though.

We're waiting to hear back from my doctor as to if he's willing to help out with DS as well or if we need to look for a DAN. I haven't read enough yet to know much about chelation and if it is something we need to think about. First thoughts are that he's going to need zinc and molybdenum and vitamin C. We'll also probably do HVFCLO. Suggestions on how to get supps into a nearly EBF kid who only eats nectarines, green beans, chicken, beef, turkey, and water kefir are appreciated.

Also... my blood lead levels came back fine, but I was low in Vitamin D. I've got D3 serum on the way as well as sodium ascorbate, natural calm, and lithium orotate.

More tomorrow, but I'd appreciate thoughts of anyone before then!

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#9 of 9 Old 08-11-2009, 12:36 AM
 
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I'm not very helpful on tests that meet the mercury counting rules - I know that can mess up a lot of stuff, but I don't know what.

However, trying to get supps into a food limited, mostly BF kid - that I know something about!!

First, he can get a lot of stuff through you - B vitamins for sure. Vit C maybe.

For the minerals, I got brainchild nutritionals minerals. They're expensive, but the lemon lime flavor is very mild tasting (DS accepts it directly squirted into his mouth, or mixed in a little homemade coconut yogurt). And they last a long time at small kid doses. That has zinc and mo and selenium and several other good things.

For mag, I like kirkman labs mg glycinate powder. That's the most absorbable form of mg, and they've done something to it that makes it not taste very bad (mg tastes blecky, so that's been an issue for us).

For vitamin C, I got some plain sodium ascorbate capsules, and I actually mix it in ground beef/lamb (which my kid happens to eat). It tastes mildly salty, so he seems to prefer it mixed with something where a salty flavor works. That said, I get maybe 500mg of vitamin C in him a day, and that much is hard work. I'd do chewables in a heartbeat if I could find one he can tolerate (fruit flavors don't work for us).

If he can do juice, stuff hides a LOT better in strong flavored juice, so you might see if you can find one he likes - then you can just open capsules of whatever and hide it in the juice.

With any of them - start slow, a little is better than none. Make sure you have good supps and whole foods for the nutrients you think he is low in, so you are passing along good stuff in your milk. And if you figure out any good tricks to get stuff into him, please share .

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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