Our test results.... updated #12, #21, #146 - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Still waiting on the comprehensive stool results, which should be in soon, and hopefully give us a few more answers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
According to some posts in the autism-mercury forum:

1) you can get high oxalates from metals toxicity

2) l-carnitine and coqQ10 are good antioxidants and help with oxalates

3) milk thistle is really high in oxalates (as I say uh oh, better go read about that) - don't know if you're taking it, but thought I'd mention it

great.... I take it every day.


4) apparently grainy poops can be a sign of high oxalates - wasn't someone asking about that recently?

yeah- I don't remember who though!

5) oxalates deplete gluthianone (big for detox), increase inflammation, and mess with zinc utilization

yep- it said it inhibits mag too

6) can cause bedwetting (Shannon, relevant for you?)

7) ALA (which some people use as a chelator, reduces oxalates. (I know you're read Tanya's stuff on how strong ALA is).

8) Lots of parents report whining/clinginess as an oxalates symptom

wow- that has been a HUGE symptom for us this past few days. Also in the past week, she's become sensitive to raisins (previously tolerated)- they cause immediate loose poops. And I'm thinking that maybe that's the issue with buckwheat (also high oxalates)... maybe her levels finally got so high that she can't tolerate the higher oxalate foods anymore.

9) Many people with oxalates issues can't tolerate much vitamin C

10) Some people find b6/mag helps with oxalates, and vitamin K

11) High oxalates often come out as rashes/spots/even sometimes hives

That's really interesting- the buckwheat was also causing blotches on her face by the time we pulled it. Quinoa did the same thing after a few days of eating it- is that high oxalate as well? Oh- just checked... WHFoods lists it as a common source of oxalates. Interesting!!!!

12) There's a probiotic called vsl#3 that has strain that is supposed to help process oxalates

Will check it out. Lisa was taking that one. I wonder if it has any allergens in it?
Interesting stuff! I'm really feeling like I'm getting some answers here. I wish we would have done the OAT a year ago!!!

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh yeah- this was in that article that I was reading earlier (that I forgot to link- oops):
Quote:
Oxalobacter formigenes is an intestinal bacterium that can degrade oxalate. Some studies have shown a correlation between decreased activity of this bacterium in the intestine and hyperoxaluria and stone formation
I wonder if that's the strain in VSL#3, or if it's something else? Off to look...

eta: Just looked... it's got cornstarch in it. (And I can't find what strains it includes.)

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#33 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:18 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Oh yeah- this was in that article that I was reading earlier (that I forgot to link- oops):
I wonder if that's the strain in VSL#3, or if it's something else? Off to look...

eta: Just looked... it's got cornstarch in it. (And I can't find what strains it includes.)
I feel like maybe it's the bifido? Is there even bifido in VSL? You can get it in capsules, too, and those are free of obvious corn, not sure about trace or what it's grown on. Tomorrow I have to get out of the (sick) house and I'm going to put a package in the mail for you. Want me to include some VSL caps in there?

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
 
#34 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
I feel like maybe it's the bifido? Is there even bifido in VSL? You can get it in capsules, too, and those are free of obvious corn, not sure about trace or what it's grown on. Tomorrow I have to get out of the (sick) house and I'm going to put a package in the mail for you. Want me to include some VSL caps in there?
Sure! If you have a few extra, I'm game to try it! The VSL website said the ingredients were 8 strains and cornstarch. Not sure which one I was looking at though...

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#35 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:44 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, oxalates would totally explain the bump on J's finger, too! Is it still there? I wonder if you could use it as a marker of your progress dealing with the issue...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#36 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Hey, oxalates would totally explain the bump on J's finger, too! Is it still there? I wonder if you could use it as a marker of your progress dealing with the issue...
I was wondering about that when I saw "oxalate deposits" in one of the articles- wasn't sure exactly what they were. That would be so cool though if it went away though!! Yeah- it's still there.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#37 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:57 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you seen this??
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...0the%20OAT.pdf

Assuming glycolic and glyceric acids are normal since you didn't post them, it lists b6 deficiency as a cause of high oxalates...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#38 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Have you seen this??
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...0the%20OAT.pdf

Assuming glycolic and glyceric acids are normal since you didn't post them, it lists b6 deficiency as a cause of high oxalates...
No... I didn't see that. Was looking for it too.

Yeah- her glyceric and glycolic were actually a little lower than normal. So I could take the b6 myself, right? I have the P5P tablets on hand, which are 50mg. How much should would you supp if you were me?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#39 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:03 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
I was wondering about that when I saw "oxalate deposits" in one of the articles- wasn't sure exactly what they were. That would be so cool though if it went away though!! Yeah- it's still there.
back to the vitamink group, they talk about calcium oxalates crystals forming in odd places, and using vitamin k to break them up. They also talk about those crystals trapping viruses such that when they get broken up, you might get sick as a reaction.

You might want to join that group, if just to read the files/links. There's also the 'competing' group, 'trying low oxalates' or something like that. But limiting your diet even more is kind of impossible...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#40 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:09 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think maybe the upside here is the imbalance issues like this can often move pretty quickly once you figure out what to do. It sounds like a lot of the recent worsening, at least, might be oxalates related.

I did a search for that probiotic strain, and I can't find it in any publicly available probiotic. But bifido is supposed to be helpful there too, so I think that's definitely worth a try. Vitamin K too, if you can find a safe source for that - can you do the fermented CLO? That has lots of vitamin K in it...

ETA: LOL, we're all posting on top of each other

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#41 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:11 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
No... I didn't see that. Was looking for it too.

Yeah- her glyceric and glycolic were actually a little lower than normal. So I could take the b6 myself, right? I have the P5P tablets on hand, which are 50mg. How much should would you supp if you were me?
You're likely low as well, so I'd go pretty high. When I first started supping, the nutritionist started me on 200mg b6, which I then switched to 200mg PLP plus what was in the b complex, either 50 or 100mg. Given what I know now, I'd spread it out a bit more, and basically see how high you can go (with the other B's of course) and watch for positive (or negative) change in either of you. B6 is like b12 in that they both can store in the body. I'm a big fan of nutrient reserves

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#42 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:12 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
No... I didn't see that. Was looking for it too.

Yeah- her glyceric and glycolic were actually a little lower than normal. So I could take the b6 myself, right? I have the P5P tablets on hand, which are 50mg. How much should would you supp if you were me?
You can. When DS was deficient, I had him on 20mg a day, so I'd guess you could take a couple (one morning, one afternoon - don't take it too late in the day, it can make little ones hyper if they get too much). Maybe even more if you are deficient too. Do you have a B complex? I wouldn't take that much P5P alone for very long, it's likely to create other B deficiencies...

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#43 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:16 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
I think maybe the upside here is the imbalance issues like this can often move pretty quickly once you figure out what to do. It sounds like a lot of the recent worsening, at least, might be oxalates related.

I did a search for that probiotic strain, and I can't find it in any publicly available probiotic. But bifido is supposed to be helpful there too, so I think that's definitely worth a try. Vitamin K too, if you can find a safe source for that - can you do the fermented CLO? That has lots of vitamin K in it...

ETA: LOL, we're all posting on top of each other
Really, fCLO has vit K? is it k2? Bone marrow is another source, and carlsons makes a capsule and someone, thorne maybe? has drops.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#44 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:28 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Really, fCLO has vit K? is it k2? Bone marrow is another source, and carlsons makes a capsule and someone, thorne maybe? has drops.
Dunno - it's in the quinones - I read it on the greenpasture guy's blog, but I can't find it now. He says it depends on which oils and when they do the assays, but there's 8-9mg/g of quinones in the fish oils, and vitamin K is part of the mix (as well as coQ10 and several other unknown quinones) - I figure K and coQ10 are on the list of oxalate fighters, it would be a good possibility for Jess. Do you know, would that pass in bm? (Cuz the fCLO tastes BLECK. I put it in capsules).

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#45 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:32 AM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Dunno - it's in the quinones - I read it on the greenpasture guy's blog, but I can't find it now. He says it depends on which oils and when they do the assays, but there's 8-9mg/g of quinones in the fish oils, and vitamin K is part of the mix (as well as coQ10 and several other unknown quinones) - I figure K and coQ10 are on the list of oxalate fighters, it would be a good possibility for Jess. Do you know, would that pass in bm? (Cuz the fCLO tastes BLECK. I put it in capsules).
Interesting. I know k will pass into milk, but I don't know about the others...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#46 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:34 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Interesting. I know k will pass into milk, but I don't know about the others...
Guessing so, since they're obviously fat soluble and I think all the fat soluble vites pass???

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#47 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:38 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
More, from this link:

"Excessive fats in the diet may cause elevated oxalate if the fatty acids are poorly absorbed because of bile salt deficiency. Nonabsorbed free fatty acids bind calcium to form insoluble soaps, reducing calcium ability to bind oxalate and reduce oxalate absorption (20). If taurine is low in the plasma amino acid profile, supplementation with taurine may help stimulate bile salt production (taurocholic acid), leading to better fatty acid absorption and diminished oxalate absorption.

...Both Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium lactis have enzymes that degrade oxalates (22).

...Increase intake of essential omega-3 fatty acids, commonly found in fish oil and cod liver oil, which reduces oxalate problems (23). High amounts of the omega-6 fatty acid, arachidonic acid, are associated with increased oxalate problems (24). Meat from grain fed animals is high in arachidonic acid."

That link also says if you are high in copper, then vite C tends to be converted to oxalates. So maybe supping vite C isn't your first step here...

And from my autism resources again, high oxalates can cause histamine release and histamine sensitivity.

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#48 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 10:20 AM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
How much bone broth are you doing? It sounds like it could be really good for calcium, and general gut health.
Yes, dh had pink poop with beets, until he started bone broth each morning. (as an aside, he has so many more nutrients, he is detoxing through his skin more/eczema flare. So, we are backing down with the kefir. He was drinking ~1/2 cup a day 'cause he has a lot of yeast issues.)


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#49 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 10:30 AM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
VSL#3 Lactic Acid Bacteria Probiotic

COMPOSITION PER PACKET OF VSL#3
Lactic Acid Bacteria: - 450 billion/packet

Streptococcus thermophilus
Bifidobacterium breve
Bifidobacterium longum
Bifidobacterium infantis
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus bulgaricus

Other Ingredient contained in VSL3: Corn Starch

http://www.crohns.net/page/C/PROD/Probiotic/VSL3000
http://www.crohns.net/Miva/productinfo/whyVSL3.shtml
http://www.vsl3.com/about-vsl-special.asp
http://www.vsl3.com/healthcare.asp


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#50 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 10:42 AM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Really, fCLO has vit K? is it k2? Bone marrow is another source, and carlsons makes a capsule and someone, thorne maybe? has drops.
Apparently, Stephan Guyenet of Whole Health Source thinks, "It may contain K2 but probably not the MK-4 form."

Green Pasture's Update on Cod Liver Oil Manufacturing, "Since this product is a fermented one, we surmised that it would contain vitamin K2 as well as vitamins A and D. What we found was a range of quinones, which include the various forms of K2. The fermentation increases the total quinone count by 700-1600 percent compared to readings prior to the fermentation process. We have not identified the specific quinones but I suspect that the K2 category and Co-enzyme Q family will."




Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#51 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 10:48 AM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
According to some posts in the autism-mercury forum:

11) High oxalates often come out as rashes/spots/even sometimes hives
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
More, from this link:
...Increase intake of essential omega-3 fatty acids, commonly found in fish oil and cod liver oil, which reduces oxalate problems (23). High amounts of the omega-6 fatty acid, arachidonic acid, are associated with increased oxalate problems (24). Meat from grain fed animals is high in arachidonic acid."

And from my autism resources again, high oxalates can cause histamine release and histamine sensitivity.
arachidonic acid inhibition was related to the Singulair.

This is interesting as we ran out of the CLO, just before dh's rash/eczema/itching has increased, while increasing bone broth and green juice (oxalates) consumption.
Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
#52 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Guessing so, since they're obviously fat soluble and I think all the fat soluble vites pass???
The fat soluble stuff is funky, though. A lot has to do with mom's status rather than her intake, and they're not all the same. I know fatty acid composition reflects diet... And I have no idea on stuff like coQ10 and such. I have a book I could check if anyone really is curious

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#53 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
I think maybe the upside here is the imbalance issues like this can often move pretty quickly once you figure out what to do. It sounds like a lot of the recent worsening, at least, might be oxalates related.
Yes- that's what I'm hoping for, on both counts!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
You can. When DS was deficient, I had him on 20mg a day, so I'd guess you could take a couple (one morning, one afternoon - don't take it too late in the day, it can make little ones hyper if they get too much). Maybe even more if you are deficient too. Do you have a B complex? I wouldn't take that much P5P alone for very long, it's likely to create other B deficiencies...
Good point. I'll try to pick up the Thorne B-complex too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Really, fCLO has vit K? is it k2? Bone marrow is another source, and carlsons makes a capsule and someone, thorne maybe? has drops.
hmmmm... DD eats bone marrow at least a few times a week- every time we make a lamb steak (almost every night), DP digs out the marrow for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
That link also says if you are high in copper, then vite C tends to be converted to oxalates. So maybe supping vite C isn't your first step here...
aaaahhhh- crap.

I've started us back on the CLO a couple weeks ago, so I will be vigilant about that. (I haven't tried the FCLO- honestly it's just not in our budget. I'm using TwinLabs, which is like $5 a bottle- big difference!) Maybe I'll just do the calcium before meals for now and hope it binds any oxalates that we're consuming at least.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#54 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Maybe I'll just do the calcium before meals for now and hope it binds any oxalates that we're consuming at least.
for the K, the doses they're using are way way higher than anything you can get from food. Not saying to necessarily go there, just that they're using it more medicinally, with a million other supps to support it.

For the calcium, it seems like it should bind with the metabolic oxalates as well as dietary ones. I like calcium. Don't go too low!

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#55 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looking further into this article I've been reading... looks like calcium supping is definitely the most recommended treatment for enteric.

Quote:
Initial first-line therapies include a low-oxalate diet while maintaining adequate calcium intake (will supp DD), pyridoxine (vitamin B-6) (will supp me), increased fluids (this is tricky- I can get DD to chug down a whole glass of blueberry juice mixed with water... but blueberry is high oxalate. Otherwise, she might drink a total of like 2oz of water a day), and optimization of other calcium oxalate nephrolithiasis risk factors. Limit ingestion of vitamin C (damn, she's so deficient! ) and cranberry juice products. Calcium supplements are the initial treatment of choice for enteric hyperoxaluria, along with a low-fat diet (might have to start trimming her meat. She will not be happy about that), antidiarrheal therapy, and sufficient potassium citrate (maybe more bananas? or is that the wrong form of potassium?) supplementation to maintain optimal urinary citrate levels. Vitamin E can be safely added to any hyperoxaluria treatment regimen (don't really have any options here, as supps are all soy or synthetic [which aren't as effective]).

Quote:
The intestinal tract is normally colonized with Oxalobacter at approximately age 3 years. Oxalobacter loss is primarily due to prolonged or repeated antibiotic therapy. Fluoroquinolones, cephalosporins, tetracyclines, and macrolide preparations are particularly toxic to Oxalobacter bacteria, while penicillin and sulfa drugs have relatively little effect.
I am allergic to both penecillin and sulfa drugs, so I have taken these other abx my whole life. Wonder if my O.formigenes has been completely wiped out. (not that it makes a difference in DD though, since it doesn't colonize until age 3.)

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#56 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
for the K, the doses they're using are way way higher than anything you can get from food. Not saying to necessarily go there, just that they're using it more medicinally, with a million other supps to support it.

For the calcium, it seems like it should bind with the metabolic oxalates as well as dietary ones. I like calcium. Don't go too low!
Do you know if there's an allergen-free K supp?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#57 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:05 PM
 
FireWithin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boston area
Posts: 3,334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you guys rock.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
FireWithin is offline  
#58 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Looking further into this article I've been reading... looks like calcium supping is definitely the most recommended treatment for enteric.

I am allergic to both penecillin and sulfa drugs, so I have taken these other abx my whole life. Wonder if my O.formigenes has been completely wiped out. (not that it makes a difference in DD though, since it doesn't colonize until age 3.)
If it were us, I'd see what happens with b6 and calcium alone before adding other stuff in (like cutting of the fat she loves).

I'm allergic to penicillin too, and don't think i've ever had sulfa drugs. And was on tetracycline for YEARS at a time due to high school acne... Wondering what oxalate signs I would look for... And hmm, maybe that's part of why I like calcium so much?

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#59 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:44 PM
 
mtn.mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Off the grid, AK
Posts: 3,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for that list Deb. Wow. It seems REALLY relevant. Must investigate further.

I have the list of probiotic strains in the VSL#3 that our pedi GI doc in Montana gave me with a study on it. Let me see if I can dig it up...

chicken3.gif   We're remote ECing, unschooling, free ranging goat dairy farmers.  

mtn.mama is offline  
#60 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:55 PM
 
mtn.mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Off the grid, AK
Posts: 3,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lactobacillus plantarum MB452
lactobacillus acidophilus MB443
lactobacillus delbruekii subsp. bulgaricus MB453
streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus MB455
bifidobacterium breve Y8
lactobacillus casei MB451
bifidobacterium infantis Y1
bifidobacterium longum Y10

chicken3.gif   We're remote ECing, unschooling, free ranging goat dairy farmers.  

mtn.mama is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,687

12 members and 1,675 guests
Brinkley18 , Deborah , erikalynn , IceFlake , idler , Judy Arnall , KerriB , lauritagoddess , megaluv2give , omarinbox1888 , Realdeal
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 08:45 PM.