Our test results.... updated #12, #21, #146 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 02:59 PM
 
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Ah. Somehow I missed a whole page of posts and Pat beat me to it.

As for antibiotic sensitivity, very interesting about the o. formigenes. My mom was on abx for 5 months of her pregnancy with me, and I definitely react to keflex. Must investigate further!

Gah, I wish you'd done the OAT sooner too! But the Universe brought it to you now for its own reasons... I'm just glad you have it now!

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#62 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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Thanks for that list Deb. Wow. It seems REALLY relevant. Must investigate further.

I have the list of probiotic strains in the VSL#3 that our pedi GI doc in Montana gave me with a study on it. Let me see if I can dig it up...
Oxalates are a big issue for autistic kids, and I find it's often helpful to read what that looks like to parents in their kids, vs. the usual internet symptoms lists for adults. Sometimes one or two things are off base, but in general, it's been pretty useful.

CS, I'm betting your DD is C deficient because of the oxidative stress on her body from the oxalates - if you can reign that in, then she won't need as much C. Can you up CoQ10 or any other antioxidant vites? (Even synthetic E would be better than nothing, I think).

And I'm with Shannon - leave the fats alone until you see what calcium and B6 do. Can you get a calcium citrate that's safe - that would cover calcium and the citrate/citric acid piece...

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#63 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have the TwinLab calcium citrate that I've been taking for a couple years, so pretty sure it's safe.

Any tips on how to get that into a 2yo? I just opened a capsule and dumped some of the powder into my mouth (like we do it with most other supps), and the powder is so fine that it made me choke and I totally inhaled it all. Now the inside of my nose and throat are burning. It doesn't mix with water. I tried to mix it with some honey, which kind of worked... but I don't really want to do that 3 times a day. Any other ideas?

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#64 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 03:38 PM
 
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I have the TwinLab calcium citrate that I've been taking for a couple years, so pretty sure it's safe.

Any tips on how to get that into a 2yo? I just opened a capsule and dumped some of the powder into my mouth (like we do it with most other supps), and the powder is so fine that it made me choke and I totally inhaled it all. Now the inside of my nose and throat are burning. It doesn't mix with water. I tried to mix it with some honey, which kind of worked... but I don't really want to do that 3 times a day. Any other ideas?
If it's really fine, but not too bad a taste, try mixing it with ground lamb (I just did it once the meat was warm, not hot, don't know if that matters for calcium citrate). I found that all the fat of the ground lamb did an amazing job of soaking in supps and making them pretty unoticeable texture wise (and handled the taste reasonably well too, that's how I used to hide mag and milk thistle for DS, and those taste yucky. You could probably just rub it into lamb meat too, dunno, we never got past ground lamb.

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#65 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Arg. I just called Great Plains to get the status of our stool test results, and was told that our doctor has "no release of test results" on his account, so they are only supposed to go to him, not us. Oops- they weren't supposed to mail me the OAT either. I'm seriously annoyed. I would really like to see our test results so that I can do my research and go to our appointment next week ready to have an intelligent conversation about them. grrrrrr. As soon as my cell phone recharges, I am calling the doctor!!

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#66 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:11 PM
 
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I have the TwinLab calcium citrate that I've been taking for a couple years, so pretty sure it's safe.

Any tips on how to get that into a 2yo? I just opened a capsule and dumped some of the powder into my mouth (like we do it with most other supps), and the powder is so fine that it made me choke and I totally inhaled it all. Now the inside of my nose and throat are burning. It doesn't mix with water. I tried to mix it with some honey, which kind of worked... but I don't really want to do that 3 times a day. Any other ideas?
What all are you eating right now?

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#67 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What all are you eating right now?
Breakfast: potatoes (causing blotchy face, but need the carbs) and trialing pork.
Lunch: lamb burger, zucchini
Dinner: lamb steak, broccoli, occasionally cabbage, greens, garlic stirfry

I made a buckwheat "cookie" last night because DD was just so hungry and I really felt like we were starving her. Her mood immediately improved, but she already has looser poops this morning.

Once I get pork and fish trialed, we're going to work hard at getting a rotation started, and that will (hopefully) give us a lot more variety.

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#68 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:21 PM
 
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One of the things the osteo has DS on because he's got a high-fat/high-protein diet is Xymogen PanXyme pH, and he's supposed to take it with his highest protein/fat meal of the day. It doesn't say much "proprietary enzyme blend: biodiastase, newlase, lipase" plus calcium carbonate, cellulose and Mg stearate." On the other side of the bottle it says It's "a proprietary blend of asperigillus derived enzymes used to aid in the digestion and assimilation of nutrients from food. It contains protease to improve protein digestion, lipase to aid fat digestion and a multi-enzyme belm to improve digestion of carbohydrates." Not sure if that would help or not. It seems to be helping DS a lot (along with the new probiotics).

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#69 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:30 PM
 
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Breakfast: potatoes (causing blotchy face, but need the carbs) and trialing pork.
Lunch: lamb burger, zucchini
Dinner: lamb steak, broccoli, occasionally cabbage, greens, garlic stirfry

I made a buckwheat "cookie" last night because DD was just so hungry and I really felt like we were starving her. Her mood immediately improved, but she already has looser poops this morning.

Once I get pork and fish trialed, we're going to work hard at getting a rotation started, and that will (hopefully) give us a lot more variety.
If it's the oxalates in the buckwheat that are bothering her, I'd totally mix the calcium into the buckwheat flour. That'd be a good test, too Can you sprinkle it on top of something moist/steaming and then mix it in? Mashed potatoes?

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#70 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If it's the oxalates in the buckwheat that are bothering her, I'd totally mix the calcium into the buckwheat flour. That'd be a good test, too Can you sprinkle it on top of something moist/steaming and then mix it in? Mashed potatoes?
Good plan. Maybe I'll make a calcium brownie this afternoon.

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#71 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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I have the TwinLab calcium citrate that I've been taking for a couple years, so pretty sure it's safe.

Any tips on how to get that into a 2yo? I just opened a capsule and dumped some of the powder into my mouth (like we do it with most other supps), and the powder is so fine that it made me choke and I totally inhaled it all. Now the inside of my nose and throat are burning. It doesn't mix with water. I tried to mix it with some honey, which kind of worked... but I don't really want to do that 3 times a day. Any other ideas?
I give the kids powders sandwiched in between 2 layers of squishy stuff. I use applesauce, but mashed potatoes would work, a thin layer with a small well, the powder in there, a layer of mashed potatoes across the top.
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#72 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 04:47 PM
 
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According to some posts in the autism-mercury forum:

1) you can get high oxalates from metals toxicity

2) l-carnitine and coqQ10 are good antioxidants and help with oxalates

3) milk thistle is really high in oxalates (as I say uh oh, better go read about that) - don't know if you're taking it, but thought I'd mention it

4) apparently grainy poops can be a sign of high oxalates - wasn't someone asking about that recently?

5) oxalates deplete gluthianone (big for detox), increase inflammation, and mess with zinc utilization

6) can cause bedwetting (Shannon, relevant for you?)

7) ALA (which some people use as a chelator, reduces oxalates. (I know you're read Tanya's stuff on how strong ALA is).

8) Lots of parents report whining/clinginess as an oxalates symptom

9) Many people with oxalates issues can't tolerate much vitamin C

10) Some people find b6/mag helps with oxalates, and vitamin K

11) High oxalates often come out as rashes/spots/even sometimes hives

12) There's a probiotic called vsl#3 that has strain that is supposed to help process oxalates
oh my god. i think we have oxalate issues.

also, hi everyone. it's been awhile. jessica has convinced me to come back. but i'm not leaving the allergy forum. lol

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#73 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh my god. i think we have oxalate issues.

also, hi everyone. it's been awhile. jessica has convinced me to come back. but i'm not leaving the allergy forum. lol
(about you being back, not about the oxalate issues. well, maybe that too- maybe it will be just the answers you need, just like us!!)

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#74 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 05:55 PM
 
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Yeah - DS had sandy poop this morning. He does every so often. Now I know why! I think I need to cut his milk thistle back, I bet that's the issue (and then what he/I eat tips him over the edge sometimes). No way can I give him a calcium supp, but I could try to get him to drink his milk alongside high oxalate foods.

Jess, I bet the cal citrate is perfect for adding to lots of foods - that way you'll prevent absorption of oxalates in the first place - so spreading it out over the day in lots of places.

And menomena, welcome back - join the latest "oh, I think I have that issue too" thread .

And most surely not trying to push dairy on anyone - but if anybody was thinking about trialing butter anyhow, DS has had less incidence of sandy poops since we started making our own butter from the raw milk - I bet it's high in vitamin K...

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Yeah - DS had sandy poop this morning. He does every so often. Now I know why! I think I need to cut his milk thistle back, I bet that's the issue (and then what he/I eat tips him over the edge sometimes). No way can I give him a calcium supp, but I could try to get him to drink his milk alongside high oxalate foods.

Jess, I bet the cal citrate is perfect for adding to lots of foods - that way you'll prevent absorption of oxalates in the first place - so spreading it out over the day in lots of places.

And menomena, welcome back - join the latest "oh, I think I have that issue too" thread .

And most surely not trying to push dairy on anyone - but if anybody was thinking about trialing butter anyhow, DS has had less incidence of sandy poops since we started making our own butter from the raw milk - I bet it's high in vitamin K...
I love it! that's totally how I feel.

So, oxalates are an issue here, sometimes. DS2 gets sandy poops, more often in the summer. Maybe eating different foods then??

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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I thought there was another reason for sandy poops, in addition to oxalates, don't remember what though. Catherine at the vitamin k yahoo group, which is focused on dealing with oxalate issues in ASD kids, says you can get a urine sample and let it settle and you should be able to see crystals as well. They've got a protocol (which doesn't include supplemental calcium) for restoring the body's ability to deal with oxalates. Most of the kids used to be on a low oxalate diet and are increasing their ability to deal with it.

It's a place to look, not sure if everyone needs everything on the list of supps or not. That's where I got my links for the vit K research, they use really high doses.
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#77 of 426 Old 01-27-2010, 07:33 PM
 
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this group of celiac moms are discussing sandy poop. They think it happens when their child is glutened. Are there a lot of oxalates in gluten?

http://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/in...howtopic=35532

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Can we define sandy poop? As opposed to grainy or mushy or breaking apart? Is there a poop thread? Oh right.


And the epsom salts thread that talks about oxalates

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#79 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, I don't even remember talking about that... but, it did remind me that the B6 made me irritable, and that is definitely still the case.

(TMI) I took a P5P -50mg- yesterday morning with breakfast, had diarrhea an hour later. Then got really cranky and impatient last night. So... what's up with that? Is it my (possible) copper issue? How do I remedy?

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#80 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 12:41 PM
 
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Wow, I don't even remember talking about that... but, it did remind me that the B6 made me irritable, and that is definitely still the case.

(TMI) I took a P5P -50mg- yesterday morning with breakfast, had diarrhea an hour later. Then got really cranky and impatient last night. So... what's up with that? Is it my (possible) copper issue? How do I remedy?
Are you taking other b's? When I did just b5/b6, i went from irritable and stressed and to this weird racing/out of sorts/get me out of my skin feeling. And then the b complex fixed that completely. So I'd look at b complex and especially pantothenic acid.

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#81 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:00 PM
 
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Are you taking other b's? When I did just b5/b6, i went from irritable and stressed and to this weird racing/out of sorts/get me out of my skin feeling. And then the b complex fixed that completely. So I'd look at b complex and especially pantothenic acid.
that was my other thought

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#82 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you taking other b's? When I did just b5/b6, i went from irritable and stressed and to this weird racing/out of sorts/get me out of my skin feeling. And then the b complex fixed that completely. So I'd look at b complex and especially pantothenic acid.
I'm taking the Thorne multi (which I took at the same time), which has b's in it... but not a B-complex. Am going to pick one up at our DAN! appt on Tuesday.

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#83 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:15 PM
 
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I'm taking the Thorne multi (which I took at the same time), which has b's in it... but not a B-complex. Am going to pick one up at our DAN! appt on Tuesday.
Then yeah, I totally vote b complex. The b's really work together, and high doses of one can deplete others, FAST.

I want to know how the buckwheat went with the calcium! Is it still too soon for a reaction? :P

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#84 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Then yeah, I totally vote b complex. The b's really work together, and high doses of one can deplete others, FAST.

I want to know how the buckwheat went with the calcium! Is it still too soon for a reaction? :P
Nope, it sure isn't too soon. DD had a loose poo with mucus and blood in it last night. (Could have been from the bite of buckwheat the night before too.)

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#85 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:21 PM
 
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Nope, it sure isn't too soon. DD had a loose poo with mucus and blood in it last night. (Could have been from the bite of buckwheat the night before too.)

how much calcium are you mixing in? Are you going to try again?

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#86 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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how much calcium are you mixing in? Are you going to try again?
I was giving her about 1/2 capsule per meal, which would be about 50mg. Plus, I put 4 capsules into the muffin mix, so there was a little in there.

I'm going to definitely do the calcium again today- I'm not sure about the muffins.... But yesterday, after doing calcium, she actually played quietly in her room and was happy for a bit. No idea if it was calcium related, or that she was actually full for a change (made potatoes for breakfast). But then by the evening, it was all tantrums and hitting again. So we'll see how today goes...

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#87 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:27 PM
 
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Nonabsorbed free fatty acids bind calcium to form insoluble soaps, reducing calcium's ability to bind oxalate and increase its absorption.
from your update..
this would make me consider reducing her fat intake in the initial stages, if only to see results more quickly/for longer periods of time.

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#88 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:28 PM
 
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I was giving her about 1/2 capsule per meal, which would be about 50mg. Plus, I put 4 capsules into the muffin mix, so there was a little in there.

I'm going to definitely do the calcium again today- I'm not sure about the muffins.... But yesterday, after doing calcium, she actually played quietly in her room and was happy for a bit. No idea if it was calcium related, or that she was actually full for a change (made potatoes for breakfast). But then by the evening, it was all tantrums and hitting again. So we'll see how today goes...
I'd try upping it a bit. Standard adult supping advice is up to 500mg with a meal, and the RDA is 1000ish mg/day. WAP (himself) rec'd 1500mg/day. When I translated that down for dd, it was 250mg/meal.

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#89 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd try upping it a bit. Standard adult supping advice is up to 500mg with a meal, and the RDA is 1000ish mg/day. WAP (himself) rec'd 1500mg/day. When I translated that down for dd, it was 250mg/meal.
I didn't really have any reason for choosing that amount, it was just all the powder I could fit onto whatever she was eating. It's horrible chalky stuff.

hmmm... Maybe that's why she went crazy crabby last night after the muffins- we just ate dinner with a nice fatty lamb steak.

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#90 of 426 Old 01-28-2010, 01:33 PM
 
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from your update..
this would make me consider reducing her fat intake in the initial stages, if only to see results more quickly/for longer periods of time.
And I would just see it as an excuse to add more calcium. If she *is* getting energy from the fat, (and the ketones suggest she is) then reducing it would make for a super high protein diet with possible symptoms from THAT.

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