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#271 of 1043 Old 10-19-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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while that is true it was often part of their tradition. I have to say I'm in the parasites are there for a reason camp as stated both in this thread and over there. IT's a different way to think about it and most *can't* due to their current diets. However there are many traditional cultures that intentionally "infect" themselves with parasites TO cleanse. The idea is that they only become pathogenic in a truly unbalanced body and that wasn't generally seen in those traditional indigenous tribes. Their diets were very "clean" so to speak (no additives, GMO's, artificial colors, fillers etc.) and they weren't medicated 6 ways from Sunday so the concerns of those peoples are not the concerns of the common people today.

I would say it would be very hard to view this as a possibility once you've hit the pathogenic state, but really it's something quite valid to keep tucked in the back of your head. You CAN get there if that's where you chose to go.
That's the thing. We are not living as traditional societies did, not by a long shot. And while I agree that parasites are there for a reason and have work to do, most people today who are suffering with parasites are pathogenic. So the parasites come but they may not go, because there is enough work there to keep them busy for a lifetime.

I do see the point about parasites for sure, but unfortunately most modern people are not in a position to assume that nature will balance things out, considering what she's up against.
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#272 of 1043 Old 10-19-2008, 10:43 PM
 
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So today I spent $200 getting oregano, black walnut/wormwood, Threelac, and Candex (couldn't find the other stuff yet). Now Nanethiel says Threelac has casein in it? It didn't say that on the website I was looking at. ARGH.

Okay, here is the question: When I went on my kids' diet (no gluten, no milk, no egg, no soy) and my mysterious back pain went away.... I thought it was because I was intolerant to it. However, in light of the yeast discussion, since I'm without gluten (and DS can't have yeast either) my gluten free time has also been yeast-free time. I did not cut out sugars and fruit, though they are cut way back without all the "sweets" baking I did with gluten, so is it possible that it is not an intolerance at all and it's all yeast symptoms? (I'm wondering if I shouldn't worry about the casein in the Threelac maybe?). Though when I went off the soy, all my "IBS" symptoms went away. I guess I'm still trying to figure out whether I do have a yeast problem. I always have sugar and alcohol cravings (I'm a mixed drink person, as in the drink has to be sweet enough to cover up the taste of the alcohol, though I only drink when my back is acting up -- and no, I am not breastfeeding). I guess I'm trying to figure out which of my symptoms fit into the yeast theory vs. the food intolerance theory. Though I'm wondering if going on a 4-month yeast-diet & healing regimen will tell me one way or the other. I just want to wear regular clothes again (one facet of my back pain which has not gotten better is that I can't wear anything but super baggy clothes -- no jeans, no bra, no bathing suit, etc. it all makes my back go into spasm. I always wear loose yoga pants and baggy shirts and living on a lake during the summer sucks when one can't wear a bathing suit for more than 20 minutes without pain -- though after I went on the gluten/soy/milk/egg free diet, I upped that to a couple hours with no pain).

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#273 of 1043 Old 10-19-2008, 11:11 PM
 
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kjbrown, did you read the studies about IBS and helminths for gut health? https://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=99

You've got to quit those antibiotics!



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#274 of 1043 Old 10-19-2008, 11:25 PM
 
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I do see the point about parasites for sure, but unfortunately most modern people are not in a position to assume that nature will balance things out, considering what she's up against.
As I wrote about vaccines, years ago:

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You aren't going to find THE "Right" answer. There is only what you feel is right for you and your family. People believe in different things in which to trust, or to keep them from fear. The journey to discovering what motivates you and upon what premises you make your decisions is an arduous one in parenting. Personally, I have 18 years of critical care experience, and I understand how *unscientific* medical practice and medical science is. True medical care is an Art, as much, if not more than a Science. I have seen so, so many "best practice protocols" subsequently disavowed as having some (previously unknown) danger, AFTER patients have utilized (and suffered from) them. We, the medical people, did *to* people, with all good intentions and full faith in the system of Science. However, science really is quite blind in its research; you can only learn what you are seeking to find. The myopia of separating the mind/body/spirit is a huge aspect of the limitations of medicine.

And we have the System of Medicine, embodied by the (fiscal) monopoly of the AMA. I can only say that if you go to a surgeon, he will use the tools available to him: surgery. If you go to a internist, he will use the tools available to him: pills. If you go to a psychologist: a DSM-whatever diagnosis is utilized. They can only utilize what they know and what they are taught. Unfortunately, what is *taught* isn't necessarily current with what is known outside of their specialty. There is such a specialization in *parts* of the body that there is no *whole* patient. This isn't a system of *health*, but of illness, disease, and deficit focused care.

So, we, medical people, have developed means of dealing with discrete illness and disease, rather than focusing on maximizing the *health* of the whole person. Because we can, because there is a market for 'fixing' a problem, because it is quicker, easier, because if it doesn't work the patient just comes back, and comes back, and comes back. A system that self-perpetuates is not working to eliminate the need for itself.

There are no sure bets in life. But, you make your best guess based upon what you choose to believe in.

Instead of an issue of *fear*, I made the decision based upon *Trust*. I trust and revere our amazing bodies to address diseases which are acquired naturally, more than I trust our medical system (or pharmaceutical company) to create a "solution" which is appropriate and safe for every body. I was a critical care nurse for too many years not to be aware of the fallibility of our medical system. I trust our body to be healthy!
One of the beautiful opportunities of parenting, is self-examination of our priorities, premises, and belief systems. Parenting choices are an enlightening source of self-discovery, in my experience. We all have a choice of where we place our trust, everything will unfold from there.



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#275 of 1043 Old 10-19-2008, 11:27 PM
 
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kjbrown, did you read the studies about IBS and helminths for gut health? https://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=99

You've got to quit those antibiotics!



Pat
I'll quit the antibiotics when I get to the root of the infections! I promise. But considering that they go right to the kidneys, I don't want to play around with them. I've tried every alternative medicine way to prevent/treat them, and none of them have worked. That's why I keep seeing doctor after doctor after doctor so that someone can tell me WHY I keep getting them. My doctor and the rheumatologist both think my back pain and the UTIs, which both started at the same time, are caused by the same thing, but they can't figure out what it is. So if I can figure it out myself, even better!

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#276 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 01:05 AM
 
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That's the thing. We are not living as traditional societies did, not by a long shot. And while I agree that parasites are there for a reason and have work to do, most people today who are suffering with parasites are pathogenic. So the parasites come but they may not go, because there is enough work there to keep them busy for a lifetime.

I do see the point about parasites for sure, but unfortunately most modern people are not in a position to assume that nature will balance things out, considering what she's up against.

In this case I am not sure it's as far off as you think.... You'd be suprised at how quickly you can affect a change. I'm not sure you can go from zero to sixty, but I think you can get there within a year or two if you're willing to put in the work. And clearly you are. It's not always the easy route....but it's not necessarily hard either. Just takes a bit of tinkering. My thing is that you have to get out of the danger zone first. Our bodies are always looking to normalize and sometimes allowing that is the biggest gift we can give.
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#277 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 02:39 AM
 
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I'm not advocating for the allopathic medical establishment over here. Or the drug companies. (Or the war machine ) I'm saying that I am philosophically at peace with using herbs and other supplements that can help the body to regain balance. Or, um, kill, if that's the term you prefer. Digestive enzymes are artificially derived from a fungus, created in a laboratory. Yes, they sometimes have the ability to 'kill off' other organisms. So what? So do berberines and OoO and a hundred or more other herbs. For that matter, so do probiotics and certain types of yeasts. These things are used for the very ailments that they are remedies for (thanks to nature herself). It does not necessarily follow that to use medicine is to declare war on one's body. Of course, it easily can mean that for some people, and it does for many.

For the record, I am basically in agreement with the statements made above (except the part about cutting babies from uteruses - I don't think that is an accurate analogy). I also have seen for myself the miracle of healing when fear is not given a platform. I'm convinced that most of the positive changes we've seen here have way more to do with emotions, thoughts and state of mind than anything else we've done.
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#278 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The thing with parasites is that the stomach acid is meant to kill of the eggs/parasites/larvae, and these days doesn't cos baking soda is in pretty much everything so our stomach "acid" pretty much isn't. That's problem number one, with people enduring tape worms in the colon, malaria up the yin yang and flukes in the thyroid. No, these are not helping at all. I have to disagree STRONLY with that.

The way most parasites were meant to go was via the humble snail. The lifecycle of the fluke for example, is set up to go in a snail. When a human - inevitably - picks up the parasite, it is destroyed by the acid in the stomach. If not, it travels out again, as the life cycle of the parasite cannot be supported by the human, usually. A tape worm or whatnot may take up residence in the colon but the regular cleanses got rid of them, as did the immune system of a well oiled human machine.

This is the ol' days, of course.... anyway, so that's the best case scenario. What is happening these days are many things, things such as BENZENE.

Benzene is a solvent. We made a grave error in our modern living when we mixed the auto industry with the food industy in the 1970's by using solvents on our manufacturing machines. These solvents have found their way into our foods. Plus, benzene is in our fuel, therefore our air. Not only that, as if that isn't enough, coca cola uses sodium benzoate and an acid to preserve the coke. This, when warm (and coke vans ain't cold), creates a chemical reaction resulting in, you guessed it, benzene, right there in the drink! How many people drink soda nationally? (note: I hear coke has removed benzoate from their product due to this, I have yet to verify this) It is also found in our water, but then, what isn't these days?

Aside from the symptoms you get from ingesting benzene, it also dissolves the shell of the parasite eggs. Now, this isn't something that was meant to happen! In nature, these eggs would not be dissolved in our body, and they would not stay in us. But in our modern world, we have made the perfect conditions for parasites to set up residence.

People are now getting "cysts", all over the place for instance. I had one in my spleen, and some on my ovaries. I suffered quite bad pain from all this, and they kept growing. I learned that some cysts are recognised as parasitic in nature, such as the hydatid cyst caused by the echinoccocal tape worm. Cysts are not accessible by the immune system, they are a fortress of stealth and cunning. They grow the larval stages of the worm, right there in the kidney, spleen, BRAIN, whatever... it's just gross.

Parasites are wall to wall disease, too. They are full of bacteria and viruses. Many of our infections are due to the death of a parasite, which then causes the microorganisms it harbours to run out - into our loving arms. We all, living things, harbour pathogens. Parasites are no different in this regard. If you get a fluke in your thymus, your immune system will be all but dead. Some are just a cell in size, amoebic parasites.

Our body was designed to cope with all this. But we aren't coping anymore as we are also full of toxins, such as benzene, isopropol alcohol which Americans apparently use daily in basically everything, and metals and good grief Charlie Brown. Parasites are wreaking absolute havok on the human form.

I tried, way back when, the gentle way. Just as I tried that with the yeast issue. I tried diet and supplements and what not to no avail, my cyst was growing, I was getting endometriosis, my ovaries were bleeding, I was a wreck. The doctors tried to tell me it was hormonal, to which I asked, "what human body spontaneously screws up in such a fashion?" They had no answer of course. I did not believe that "hormones" were the cause, I believed that any mess my hormones were in was due to interferance.

I researched cysts and happened upon much info that steered me toward studying parasites past and present, and why they are a foe that modern man hasn't even recognised yet. I did enemas and some other crazy stuff and did the parasite cleanse I found in a Hulda Clark book. (love her stuff, she's cutting edge) My cysts started shrinking. The endo reversed. I started treatment on my hormones after all that, and that pretty much cleared the residual issues.

Gotta run again. Ran out of time to address KJ's queries. Although I will quickly state that I have not heard there is casein in threelac. My son was allergic to that, so I was avoiding it heavily, I wouldn't even drink kefir because it is cultured in casein. I would double check that, I'd be interested to know if it does contain it.

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#279 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes. It does contain casein.
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Is there any casein or gluten in ThreeLac?

According to the manufacturer, there is no gluten in ThreeLac, and the amount of casein has been found to be 12 parts per million (ppm), an insignificant amount-- barely above the level of detection with a microscope.
http://www.ghthealth.com/autism/

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#280 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 09:57 AM
 
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So, it seems there are 2 camps here- one that says to go ahead and kill off w/ Nystatin and one that says doesn't. I am very torn on this. Part of me wants to get this done quickly, I have been dealing w/ this for a while now (I believe it started as a problem when I started on bc pills- I quit them nearly 6 yrs ago- but I don't think the yeast issue ever went entirely away and was excarbated by pregnancy).

Now, dh and I would like to have more children, but I know this is one thing I need to take care of before then. I don't want to wait another yr or 2 of living w/ this, I want to see how all it is affecting me. The yeast seems to cause bad rage issues in me and I am tired of being a mother dealing w/ that. My kids deserve better than that. I don't have any alternative heatlh practioners in my area- save for one ND and I wouldn't go to her again. I don't have a ton of money to be throwing around either. I have got my water keifir grains in, doing bone broth, lots of clo+butter oil. I am trying to start fermenting again, but I am so busy and stressed w/ Luke's diet and behavior that it leaves little time or energy.

I don't even know why I am typing all of this, guess trying to think it all out.

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#281 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 10:34 AM
 
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Now Nanethiel says Threelac has casein in it?
I'm very upset about this, too. I had done my "research" on Threelac on the Kirkmann website. They state that it has nothing in it that's derived from milk (and other common allergens) and that it does not contain casein.

I then ordered it from a website that was a little cheaper and when I got it the other day I was so frustrated seeing that it lists casein!

Now I have a packet here and don't know what to do with it!
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#282 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 11:24 AM
 
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So if I have the oregano, wormwood/black walnut, Threelac (when I get it, and I still need to know dosages), and I'm already doing natural sauerkraut (2 Tbs./day) as my enzymes, high potency Fish Oil (4 capsules/day), probiotics (I'm on the abx support kind, plus we do coconut milk yogurt mostly 1x every 2 days), we do bone broth (both chicken and beef) at least 4 times a week. And I go on the anti-yeast diet. Is that enough? Or do I need to get Nilstat as well? I haven't found the Oxygen Elements or the L. Rhamnosus either. And what should I expect when I start? And I'm not breastfeeding, but have 2 children with food intolerances. Should they be getting the same stuff (different dosages)? One was vaginal, one was c-section. Unfortunately, I have to stay on the abx during this time, so is it even going to work? Or is it pointless? I'm in a vicious cycle right now, I can't be off the antibiotics to start the healing without getting another infection which will need more abx. I'm stuck. Or am I?

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#283 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 11:39 AM
 
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Yes. It does contain casein.
http://www.ghthealth.com/autism/
I don't see where Fivelac contains casein. I don't see it on the box, but it does contain lactose.
but please don't take my word for it.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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#284 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 01:59 PM
 
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Pretty sure we were talking about ThreeLac earlier - Fivelac might be different. I have a box right here in front of me (Threelac) which says it contains Casein. Casein is not listed in the ingredients, but there's a separate sentence underneath the list of ingredients that says: "Contains an ingredient derived from milk. (12ppm Casein)"


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I don't see where Fivelac contains casein. I don't see it on the box, but it does contain lactose.
but please don't take my word for it.
I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.

Still trying to decide if I should give it a try with the Threelac or not. I took a normal probiotic for a few days a couple of months ago and my son was reacting to it (badly!). Seeing how small of an amount 12ppm is and that there's been improvement in general is making me contemplate if I should give it a try or not..
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#285 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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So if I have the oregano, wormwood/black walnut, Threelac (when I get it, and I still need to know dosages), and I'm already doing natural sauerkraut (2 Tbs./day) as my enzymes, high potency Fish Oil (4 capsules/day), probiotics (I'm on the abx support kind, plus we do coconut milk yogurt mostly 1x every 2 days), we do bone broth (both chicken and beef) at least 4 times a week. And I go on the anti-yeast diet. Is that enough? Or do I need to get Nilstat as well? I haven't found the Oxygen Elements or the L. Rhamnosus either. And what should I expect when I start? And I'm not breastfeeding, but have 2 children with food intolerances. Should they be getting the same stuff (different dosages)? One was vaginal, one was c-section. Unfortunately, I have to stay on the abx during this time, so is it even going to work? Or is it pointless? I'm in a vicious cycle right now, I can't be off the antibiotics to start the healing without getting another infection which will need more abx. I'm stuck. Or am I?
Any chance of adding kombucha? It has Saccharomyces boulardii, even GT Dave's does. And add some kefir? It has 37 microbials in symbiotic balance, vs. yougurt has only a few. Ecoli, listeria, and salmonella can not even grow in kefir. http://tmc.dergisi.org/pdf/pdf_TMC_279.pdf

I'd also increase the saur kraut and yogurt significantly.

Then consider, in the future, getting agreement from your doctor to bring a weekly (or monthy) urine sample for culture and sensitivity to test for any bacterial concerns, while OFF antibiotics. Resume antibiotics at the first indication of any concern for the 5-10 days, and reculture the urine. I'd suggest a 1 month full court press on consuming the probiotics, before stopping the antibiotics though.

This is common practice with grade 1-IV VUR (Vesicoureteral Reflux) in children even.

Wormwood or black walnut has some risk/issues, I don't recall which. I think it is the wormwood. Check about that.

And frankly, I'd rather take a dose of nystatin than be on antibiotics constantly.

But, I don't believe continuing the microflora killers along side the probiotics long term, off antibiotics is optimal, as you kill the probiotics too. Perhaps, consider doing the OoO, Threelac, Nystatin, or the myriad of other natural alternatives on a periodic basis, monthly or weekly initially while off antibiotics, not constantly, just as a 'clean the slate plan'.

There is always a way. There are not only two options, "on antibiotics" or "off antibiotics".

But, I'd do anything to get off daily antibiotics.

Also, this yogurt has Lactobacillus rhamnosus. http://www.stonyfield.com/Wellness/M...cfm?moos_id=60

Have you read the probiotics links about viability in the marketed brands? Basically, most marketed probiotics are not viable all the way to the gut. Whole food is.

Are you taking antacids? (don't) Could you add raw Bragg's apple cider vinegar? I know Calm and I disagree about this too. LOL

Also, for health, I'd add organic coconut water and green juices to your diet. Better yet, I just found this coconut water vinegar. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm

A simple alternative is Coco-Biotic drink. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm


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#286 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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I'm going to jump in here as well. I suspect I may have a yeast issue (took birth control pills for 15+ years, had antibiotics numerous times for bronchitis, took steroids numerous times for asthma, took advair for asthma for years, had a c-section with antibiotics, etc) and would like some advice on treatment.

DD is 5 months old and EBF so I need to make sure whatever I do will not harm her, and will not adversely affect my milk supply. I am still on a TED and up until this weekend was taking no supplements. DD has GI issues (very gassy, green mucousy stinky poop, sometimes with blood) and mild exzema and I just can't get her fully to baseline.

So here is what I am now doing as of this past weekend:

- Eliminated all sugar and fruit from my diet (I am using some stevia)
- Taking Candidase (2 pills 3x a day, 2 hours after meals)
- Taking Kirkman Labs pro-bio defense probiotics (2 pills a day, with breakfast/dinner) (I am switching to pro-bio gold because I realized the pro-bio defense is not labeled hypoallergenic but haven't received my order yet)
- Drinking 1 cup bone broth a day (plus using it to make quinoa)

Here is what I am planning to do going forward:
- Make kombucha and water kefir (my order should arrive in the next few days)

Questions:

- Is there anything I am doing wrong so far?
- How much kombucha/water kefir should i drink daily?
- I am thinking after reading this thread that I need to add nystatin, pau d'arco, threelac, or something like that. I would like to avoid nystatin because I don't think DD's pediatrician will prescribe it (she wants us to just use homeopathy - we have been doing that for a few months and will keep doing it but I think we need to do something else too).
- Should I give probiotics (or anything else) to DD?
- The Candidase bottle says for best results to take Virastop each time Candidase is taken. Would this be helpful?
- I have been taking the Candidase for almost 2 days and so far only feel thirsty at night and have had a mild headache on and off. Sounds like others had much more extreme reactions. Does this mean I may not have a yeast problem?

Thanks so much for your help! This thread has been really eye opening.
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#287 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 03:57 PM
 
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It's made from Soy.

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I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.
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#288 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Any chance of adding kombucha? It has Saccharomyces boulardii, even GT Dave's does. And add some kefir? It has 37 microbials in symbiotic balance, vs. yougurt has only a few. Ecoli, listeria, and salmonella can not even grow in kefir. http://tmc.dergisi.org/pdf/pdf_TMC_279.pdf
I guess I have to research kefir and kombucha to see what's in it. My yogurt has streptococcus thermophilus, lactobacillus bulgaricus, and lactobacillus casei. My "Abx Support" has: saccaromyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus, bifidobacterium bifidum, and bifidobacterium breve (2x day).

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I'd also increase the saur kraut and yogurt significantly.
I can do that easily enough.

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Then consider, in the future, getting agreement from your doctor to bring a weekly (or monthy) urine sample for culture and sensitivity to test for any bacterial concerns, while OFF antibiotics. Resume antibiotics at the first indication of any concern for the 5-10 days, and reculture the urine. I'd suggest a 1 month full court press on consuming the probiotics, before stopping the antibiotics though.
I can buy the test strips in bulk from a medical supply place (the same one the doctor's use and test my own urine, every day if I want to. The reason this seems to be better (being on abx all the time) is that I'm not becoming resistant to all the antibiotics. Last time (after DS and before DD) the bacteria was becoming more and more resistant and I kept having breakthrough infections (those HAVE to get cultured to even find out if you have an infection). Since I've been on the Augmentin (for 2 years) I haven't had a single breakthrough (knock on wood). But that's why I'm trying to figure out if I can start healing for a certain length of time (like a month or 2 months or whatever) then going off the abx while increasing the healing and testing when I need to.

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There is always a way. There are not only two options, "on antibiotics" or "off antibiotics".
For me those seem to be the options with the UTIs, unfortunately. So far, in the last 2.5 years, I get one within THREE DAYS of going off the abx. So yes, I don't have to be on it ALL the time. I can have 3 days off every once in a while!!

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Are you taking antacids? (don't) Could you add raw Bragg's apple cider vinegar? I know Calm and I disagree about this too. LOL
I don't take antacids. All calcium makes me nauseous (even Tums). Not sure why. And I'm supposed to be taking 600mg/day at least (osteopenia). I can tolerate the Vital Nutrients 200mg calcium-magnesium, but that's about it. I could take apple cider vinegar I guess. What does it do? Just curious, since the yeast free diets say not to have vinegar....

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Also, for health, I'd add organic coconut water and green juices to your diet. Better yet, I just found this coconut water vinegar. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm
I actually have coconut water to use in case DD gets sick (as her Pedialyte alternative). But what does that do? I use coconut oil and coconut milk already.

Do I assume my kids have yeast issues too? And what do I do for them (can they take all the same things)? They are 3yo and 8yo.

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#289 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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I don't know the answers to all your questions, but IMO if you are going to be drinking coconut water it needs to be cultured. Otherwise it has too much sugar.

The problem I see here is that as long as you are on abx, it is all but pointless to do a yeast treatment. Okay that is not completely true because you may be able to at least control it somewhat, that is all. But every single probiotic you take or consume is being killed immediately by the abx in your system. That's what abx do, they kill bacteria, good and bad. So that is a lot of precious time and money that is going nowhere. I'm not sure what advice to give you though. I know that if I had to go on abx for some reason, I would make sure to take Nystatin while doing so, or at the very least OoO or GSE. This would be to control the yeast in order that I'd have more luck re-populating the gut with beneficial bacteria after the abx. Gosh, your situation is tough. I wish I had more advice to offer.
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#290 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 06:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nanethiel View Post
Pretty sure we were talking about ThreeLac earlier - Fivelac might be different. I have a box right here in front of me (Threelac) which says it contains Casein. Casein is not listed in the ingredients, but there's a separate sentence underneath the list of ingredients that says: "Contains an ingredient derived from milk. (12ppm Casein)"
I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.

Still trying to decide if I should give it a try with the Threelac or not. I took a normal probiotic for a few days a couple of months ago and my son was reacting to it (badly!). Seeing how small of an amount 12ppm is and that there's been improvement in general is making me contemplate if I should give it a try or not..
oh I know, I don't think I was clear. I was just stating that I don't think fivelac has casein. Just and FYI for those who might be looking for an alternative.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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#291 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 06:22 PM
 
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Got it.

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Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo View Post
oh I know, I don't think I was clear. I was just stating that I don't think fivelac has casein. Just and FYI for those who might be looking for an alternative.
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#292 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 06:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joybird View Post
But every single probiotic you take or consume is being killed immediately by the abx in your system. That's what abx do, they kill bacteria, good and bad.
I don't think antibiotics are absolutely detrimental to every bacteria. Otherwise we wouldn't "need" (oxymoronic choice of words, coming from me, lol) different types of antibiotics: Sulfonamindes, Macrolides, Penicillins, Cephalosporins, Fluoroquinolones, Tetracyclines, Aminoglycosides. Each antibiotic is effective only for certain types of "infections". http://www.emedicinehealth.com/antibiotics/page2_em.htm

In fact, the pharmaceutical companies are working to invent an encapsulated form of probiotics to be co-marketed with antibiotics to replace beneficial gut flora (to the best of our ability) during concurrent administration.


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#293 of 1043 Old 10-20-2008, 07:11 PM
 
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Okay, let me correct myself. Almost every single probiotic that enters a body riddled with abx will be killed. Any amount that manages to survive the annihilation bomb that abx is will not be significant enough to encourage re-population of healthy flora.

I'd certainly believe that the drug barons are looking to market a product like the one mentioned. They know some of us are catching on to them. Too bad it probably won't work, considering that it would be administered at the same time as their other product that kills the healthy organisms that it would contain.
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#294 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 01:22 AM
 
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What I want is to kill off enough of the yeast so that I CAN get off the abx. And then do major treatment. If I could get off the abx for 2 months without getting another infection, I could do major kill off right?

So if right now I'm doing:
Abx Support (probiotic)
Saurkraut (1/2 c./day or can do more)
coconut milk yogurt (I'll try to do 5 oz./day)
High Potency Fish Oil (4 gelcaps/day)
Anti-yeast diet (you all convinced me yesterday that the time to start is NOW)

Then when I get my order in, I add:
Candex
Oil of Oregano
Black Walnut/Wormwood
Threelac

And do that for a month, go off the abx and increase something? or just stay the same? And see how long I can go without a UTI? Does that sound like a plan? I don't know what doctor I'd go to to get Nystatin. My allopath would look at me like I'm crazy (though maybe not since he's tested me for MS, heavy metals, and other things just because I'd bring in a study, because no one has answers for my back pain or UTIs) and my naturopath said I didn't have a yeast problem. So can I do it all without Nystatin?

I was reading this thread in dribs and drabs all along, and missing some. So today I read over the whole thing again. And I'm so glad I finally have a plan (and my two allergy kids have always had cradle cap, and actually my first DD - no food allergies - had it for a long time too).

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#295 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 01:34 AM
 
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I would also point out that allopaths not only test differently, but they read the results differently than alternative care providers. I wouldn't accept any of those answers, personally. I have seen the difference on many occasions with many results. It's amazing what allopaths DON'T learn in terms of interpretations. Also, allopaths run tests that DON'T work...like testing metals through blood. They only show in your blood if you are currently being exposed, not if they are lodged in your tissues. You can be severely toxic and not have it show up on those tests. Not trying to scare you, but don't assume you have the answers just because you were at one point tested, you know?

I worked with someone who got their lab results back and they got the green light from their physician. Everything was fine. I was shocked-this person wasn't at all fine. I asked to see the labs. I showed them to an ND and they were in awe. Their were so many things wrong with the patterns on that test, but the doc said it was fine because no one thing was out of the range of normal. I am not even done with school, but there were alot of red flags which subsequent testing showed to be a pretty big issue. That person never would've got subsequent testing if they had just gone with the first opinion.Wow. Just. Wow.
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#296 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 01:41 AM
 
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I brought all my test results to the naturopath and she didn't see anything wrong either (she also said because my TSH was fine there was no issue with my thyroid -- I said what about the other numbers -- if I already have a multi-nodular goiter, shouldn't I be getting my FT3 and FT4 checked? She said no. A few weeks ago I went to an osteopath/endocrinologist, she just me put on thyroid medicine from my symptoms and because I already have the goiter -- she said they should have put me on it just so it wouldn't get any bigger). And I take my naturopath test results to my allopath. I'm covering all my bases!

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#297 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 01:48 AM
 
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Wow. Have you had your iodine levels done? And just so I know that I'm reading this right....your ND said that because your TSH was fine no further testing was needed in the presence of a multi-nodular goiter?
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#298 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
Wow. Have you had your iodine levels done? And just so I know that I'm reading this right....your ND said that because your TSH was fine no further testing was needed in the presence of a multi-nodular goiter?
Yup. And this naturopath came very highly recommended (by my half-brother who went to her after a massive heart infection and the doctors said they couldn't do anything and she cured him). I have not had my iodine levels done. I was wondering about that since we switched from iodized salt 2.5 years ago to sea salt because of DD's corn intolerance. The goiter was found by accident when they did an MRI of my neck to see if there was anything mechanically causing my back pain (they'd already done a mid-back one and a lower-back one and figured they'd do a neck one to make sure they got them all). Then they did an ultrasound to check the thyroid. That's why I don't know if some of my stuff is thyroid vs. yeast (thyroid can cause UTIs and muscle pain and so can yeast). The endo. put me on a low dose thyroid and said it might not do anything but they have to increase it slowly. I go back to get my levels checked in a month. But I'm impatient. If it IS yeast, then I want to start the healing now. It is funny, today I followed the diet to the letter, and increased my sauerkraut and everything else I'd already been doing. I am normally a sugar addict. Tonight, my neck/back hurts, I have a wicked headache and I started getting a rash under my engagement ring (which I've been getting on and off for the last few months). Can just that little thing have made a difference (the no fruit/no sugar etc.)? And if my back pain is going to get worse again, I don't know how I'm going to take it.

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#299 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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K, if you are considering going of abx, I would like to know a little more, if that's ok. You can share here so others (lots of readers) can get something out of it, or you can PM me, or you can decline altogether, no harm done. But I'd like to know what else you have been diagnosed with, that may be unrelated. Anything "big", like diabetes etc? Anything smaller or even tiny that comes to mind?

Do you have any blood test or other test results in file at home? I ask for and keep all mine, even now when they come electronically I still get print outs, but not everyone does. If you do, could you list your most recent results, as you see them in print? If you have too many to list, like a general blood chem test, I'll get you to just list those that are "out of range".

However, if you could also see any results that are close to out of range, list them. For instance, hypothetically, insulin "in range" might be 7 to 15, and your result is 7 or 8, write that - even though you are technically in range. This is because the ranges as they set them are not tight enough for a naturopath. A person can show "normal" on a test, enough to satisfy a regular doc, but be close enough to be significant clinically for a naturopath. If you have nothing like that, that's ok.

There are many pieces of a chronic health puzzle to put together, and in real life it's hard enough but online, when we can't even see you, it's ten times harder. All the info we can get helps, even if you think it is irrelevant - often those little tidbits are the clincher.

Sorry for not addressing previous posts.. again!... but I'm rushing about today and when I saw K is considering going off a med, I had to quickly post this.

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#300 of 1043 Old 10-21-2008, 10:50 AM
 
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Ok, I guess I need to get off the stick, so to speak. Here is what I've been doing for several weeks:

Digest Gold or zyme pripme with meals
Candidase at night between meals
No fenol in the morning before eating
Fermented CLO (1 tbsp)
Kimchi or pickle juice when I can

I have some home made water kefir. I"m not sure if I made it right but I can start drinking that. I can also buy kombucha from the store. I'm still breastfeeding. What should I use for a yeast killer? I have no way to get a script for Nystatin at the moment. I've also had supply problems in the past so I'm not willing to use something that might impact my supply.

What is the best probiotic? I take a pharmax one but it isn't heavy duty. Just multi strain.

I'm also taking a bunch of supplements for adrenal fatigue. They include: Immuno Plus, Adrenal Support, biotin (500mg) & quercitin.

Should I be treating my son at the same time? He is 14 mo & hardly eats anything. How do I get anything in to him to help?

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