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-   -   My research: CSS - c-section syndrome (causing allergies) (https://www.mothering.com/forum/307-allergies/941070-my-research-css-c-section-syndrome-causing-allergies.html)

Calm 07-30-2008 10:09 PM

come look, see if it fits you. i'd love some test subjects with children and "allergies".

My blog on my story so far and CSS

changingseasons 07-30-2008 10:52 PM

Oops- I posted questions on your other thread and then saw this one...

Yep, I definitely fit. Antibiotics 2x during pregnancy, and then round after round of them during labor because I was "a little warm"... and then an unplanned c-section.

I know this is the same story (or similar) for a lot of mamas here.... I think I posted a poll about that very thing a while back.

Oh yeah- and DD has a HUGE list of 'bad' foods. In fact, my diet is down to about 10 things now. But we're really close to baseline... finally. Keeping my fingers crossed that we'll get there soon!

chantald 07-30-2008 10:59 PM

You won't like my answer..

I had two unplanned c/s with my first two. I was on abx twice with pregnancy #1 and during and after delivery. I was on abx once with #2 but not during delivery. Neither of them have any food allergies although they are both lactose intolerant, had gut issues, yeast problems and the first was dairy protein intolerant as an infant until we healed his gut. They have seasonal allergies..

baby #3 was a natural homebirth, I was on abx once during my pregnancy but took probiotics. This is my allergy baby.. He had a hives reaction to green beans. Had terrible reflux. Is very sensitive to potatos, sweet potatos. Soy and Rice seem to give him pudding stools. He cannot tolerate milk, even lactose free items.
While his skin and blood testing came back that he has "no" allergies.. his reactions to when he ate/eats things seems to indicate differently..

Calm 07-31-2008 03:54 AM

Changingseasons, I think your question on my other thread was how probiotics feed yeast. It has been found that lactobacillus clears clostridia, but not yeast. If you have clostridia, and most of us do, you will feel better in a couple of weeks but then progress will stop. Studies seem to show that the lactobacillus then does little or even helps the yeast to grow. This is also highlighted in autism treatments. Autistic kids on probiotics, diet and nystatin (anti-fungal) do well but then eventually plateau instead of progress further. When the probiotics are removed, they continue to progress. Just killing the yeast and removing the yeast food (diet changes such as removal of vinegar and sugar) is creating the success. Anything else feeds the yeast FIRST, as they line the gut wall and take first dibs on incoming nutrients.

About the hair/saliva testing, it is vega testing. Not recognised by orthodox meds just yet, but very good nonetheless. It uses the electricity of the body to find flaws, as something goes wrong in the current before it shows in the physiology.

I'm glad you can get Hope's Relief shipped over. Apparently she is doing very well with it world wide.

If you are interested at any stage and need assistance in this particular treatment, or you'd rather wait and see how I go and then perhaps give it a go, let me know. I'd like others to trial with me, because the more success stories the better, and I can fine tune the system as we go.

Chantald, you fit the picture perfectly. You had antibios during pregnancy. I don't know if you read the blog, but throwing probiotics at a candida infection after antibiotics is like trying to put out burning skyscraper with a bucket of water. What he probably has (thankfully!) are just sensitivities since they aren't showing as allergies. They can be much easier overcome and are usually just a case of fixing gut permeability and ensuring complete digestion (pawpaw comes to mind as a digestive food. It is a first food for babies in many countries).

I should be more clear in my blog in saying that a yeast infection can have been in the woman for years before she became pregnant, it isn't just what happens during and after the pregnancy. In fact, a well established infection would be worse, I would imagine.

kjbrown92 07-31-2008 09:54 AM

I had 3 kids:
Pregnancy/kid #1: I had 2 rounds of antibiotics while pregnant (UTIs). Vaginal birth. Seasonal allergies (started when she was 6). No food allergies. Never had a yeast problem. Weaned herself at 10 months.

Pregnancy/kid #2: I had 2 rounds of antibiotics while pregnant (UTIs). Vaginal birth. Intolerant to milk through me, from 1 week old. Intolerant to soy through ingestion. He's 8 yo and he's intolerant to many foods. Never had a yeast problem. Weaned himself at 8 months, then on Neocate until he was 13 months.

When I went back on dairy after weaning, I started getting UTIs more and more frequently. I am now on antibiotics all year round. And I had had back pain but it got so much worse that I was unable to wear a bra or anything tight around my waist without getting horrible back pain/spasms.

Pregnancy/kid #3: I had 2 rounds of antibiotics right at the beginning of the pregnancy (UTIs) then the UTIs went away for the rest of the pregnancy (I had been getting them every 2 weeks). My back pain also became very tolerable without meds. I had a c-section because she was feet first upside down. I must have had antibiotics but don't remember it. She was fine with my breastmilk until she had solids. Then she had intolerance upon intolerance.

None of my kids have ever had thrush (me either). And we've all been tested for yeast, and none of us have it. I think it's my intolerance that has been passed down. I am now off of dairy, gluten, and soy. It's only been a week and a half and already my back is much better. I wore a bathing suit for 3 hours yesterday without harmful effect. Before I could only wear it for 20 minutes without searing pain. So I don't think it was the c-section that did it.

Wugmama 07-31-2008 03:14 PM

I haven't had any C-sections. But I was on antibiotics during 1st pg, during labor with 1st adn 2nd, and immediately following 3rd (within hours).

So the 3rd baby is the only one with allergies (except suspect peanut allergy with #2). The only abx I had with her was after her birth.


I'm curious to know how many babies that get forumla right from the start never get these food allergies.:

Calidris 07-31-2008 04:17 PM

dunno, I had an emergency c/s, no other prenatal abx.

As far as I can tell (at 4.5) DD doesn't have any allergy issues.

WuWei 07-31-2008 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calidris View Post
dunno, I had an emergency c/s, no other prenatal abx.

As far as I can tell (at 4.5) DD doesn't have any allergy issues.
Did you get antibiotics with the c/s? I assume so. But, antibiotics are a bit controversial; and I know you are in the islands, where standard American protocols may not be followed.

I'm curious, also, if your diet may be more "traditional" than the SAD? Including broths, fermented foods, vine-ripened fruits, vegetables (with intact enzymes), and other aspects which do not have denatured proteins, and irradiated produce.

Pat

WuWei 07-31-2008 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wugmama View Post
I haven't had any C-sections. But I was on antibiotics during 1st pg, during labor with 1st adn 2nd, and immediately following 3rd (within hours).

So the 3rd baby is the only one with allergies (except suspect peanut allergy with #2). The only abx I had with her was after her birth.

First baby has asthma, correct? I still think that the antibiotics at birth are the commonality. They interrupt the normal development of GI flora in baby.

Pat

Calidris 07-31-2008 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Did you get antibiotics with the c/s? I assume so. But, antibiotics are a bit controversial; and I know you are in the islands, where standard American protocols may not be followed.

I'm curious, also, if your diet may be more "traditional" than the SAD? Including broths, fermented foods, vine-ripened fruits, vegetables (with intact enzymes), and other aspects which do not have denatured proteins, and irradiated produce.

Pat
Pretty sure I would have gotten abx (don't have my records though) but the private hospitals are pretty much like the US (including the ridiculously high number of unnecessary c/s)

I don't think out diet is a lot more traditional that the American diet, I guess we make a lot more "from scratch" and at least some of our produce is fresher (not all tho).

Interesting thought though.

mommydancer 07-31-2008 06:45 PM

Hey Calm, I don't know what you're testing, but this (original post has link) is seriously

THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS
and I have read a lot!

i CAN'T EMPHASIZE how strongly I feel all the moms around here should read that, because it pulls so many seemingly disconnected symptoms and issues together into one neat little package. I would pay MONEY to get all the MD's over here in the states to read it. It would halt a great deal of suffering. Thank you for posting it.

Calm 07-31-2008 07:19 PM

Quote:
And we've all been tested for yeast,
that's interesting, cos they can't effectively test for a candida infection, because we all have it naturally. they can sometimes find an overgrowth somewhere, such as a stool sample, but it's guess work based on symptoms. not only that but they currently don't connect most yeast symptoms TO yeast, such as MS, autism, depression, fibromyalgia, UTI's... etc. This paper is worth reading (the pdf is better: http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/18/3/258), it is a double blind study done on multiple symptoms and how well it responded to nystatin, diet etc. the results are quite staggering:
http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../full/18/3/258

sorry, mdc's buttons aren't working for me for some reason.

mothers with allergic babies should all check up on candida symptoms to see if you match. perfect health is everyone's birth right. accepting less than that due to antiquated medical talk like "you'll always have this" or "it's hereditary" isn't necessary.

mommydancer, who's post?

Calm 07-31-2008 07:31 PM

To tempt you to read that link:

Quote:
It is generally known by primary care physicians that about half of the medical evaluations of out-patient polysymptomatic patients fail to elucidate a specific causative disease... The patient may complain of chronic fatigue, poor concentration, impaired memory, respiratory tract symptoms, gastrointestinal distress, pains in muscles and joints, skin problems, recurrent infections, urogenital problems, etc. All too often, the diagnosis given to the patient is in terms such as ‘stress’, ‘psychosomatic symptoms’ or an assurance that ‘there is nothing physically wrong’.

A number of these patients have been reported to have had an unexpected marked improvement in their symptoms when antifungal drugs were administered to treat various fungal infections. In addition, there are increasing numbers of reports that drugs possessing antifungal activity have been remarkably effective in a number of well-defined diseases. There are also reports of cures of chronic fatigue, allergic conditions including bronchial asthma, pre-menstrual distress, multiple sclerosis and autism with a regimen of diet free from yeasts, moulds and sugars, antifungal medication and sometimes desensitization by Candida extract.
bold mine

changingseasons 07-31-2008 08:14 PM

Calm- I understand Kathy's pov that she never had symptoms of a yeast problem. We've also never had outward signs of yeast- no thrush, yeast infections, etc. And I took a quiz in a book that put me in the "possible" category (for likelihood of yeast problem), but not the "likely" category... so I'm not sure if yeast is something I should look into further.

I know that sometimes yeast problems can be asymptomatic, but then how do you diagnose?? Do you just treat as if you had a yeast problem, and see if symptoms improve?

ellasmama2007 07-31-2008 08:21 PM

i have read that people's subsequent children may be more likely than there first child to develop allergies because they may have had a dietary deficiency all along. this gets worse and worse with each pregnancy/lactation as the body is further depleted of nutritional stores. this can increase yeast problems or simply be an important factor in immunity by itself.

Calm 07-31-2008 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Calm- I understand Kathy's pov that she never had symptoms of a yeast problem. We've also never had outward signs of yeast- no thrush, yeast infections, etc. And I took a quiz in a book that put me in the "possible" category (for likelihood of yeast problem), but not the "likely" category... so I'm not sure if yeast is something I should look into further.

I know that sometimes yeast problems can be asymptomatic, but then how do you diagnose?? Do you just treat as if you had a yeast problem, and see if symptoms improve?
good question. personally, if nothing else was clearing symptoms in myself or my child, i'd treat yeast. but it is not done lightly, it's a commitment or it grows back really fast.

it saddens me to see all of us women starving ourselves of nutrients on these bloody diets and getting nowhere or minimal relief for our children (or selves), and the incorrect assumption (thanks to orthodox docs) that you're stuck with it. the only thing hereditary about allergies, cancers and most other "genetic" diseases is how we live and eat.

they've studied identical twins in Europe that were separated at birth, over 2000 of them and found that they didn't get the "genetic" diseases of the birth family, they got the genetic diseases of the adoptive family!

Says volumes to me. Don't accept poor health. Esp in your child. Fight it. Fight the antiquated establishment's view on the body. The body can heal itself if all obstacles to good health are removed. We don't ADD, we REMOVE, and let the body do the rest.

chantald 07-31-2008 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post
What he probably has (thankfully!) are just sensitivities since they aren't showing as allergies. .

Yes, we hope that after his nystatin treatment.. his gut will heal.

Interesting about the probiotics.. is it just lactobacillus? Some probiotics have multiple strains of different good bacteria.. or am I wrong? Our Dr has all the kids (and me) on various probiotics.. but sheesh.. if they aren't helping.. why am I spending the $$? I thought they were supposed to boost immune function, aid in digestion and promote balance.. :

I probably should de-yeasitfy myself too.. but I've been focusing on the kids mostly.. trying to heal and repair their guts.. mabye that is why they are all lactose intolerant..and here I've been blaming the high temp pasturization of dairy products...

sigh

chantald 07-31-2008 10:50 PM

Where do you get Nystatin Drops? Never heard of them.. RIght now I have the powder.. I mix it with water and wrestle with my LOs to shoot it down the back of their throats.. NASTY NASTY stuff

JaneS 08-02-2008 12:51 PM

great blog Janine!

Have you tried gelatin as an egg replacer? Works great on our GF pancakes with corn free baking powder (Hain) to make them fluffy.

RE: probiotics not working

Perhaps the answer is that lactobacillus lives only in the small intestine and yeast issues are chiefly in the colon, where bifidobacterium is dominent and number 10x more than lactobacillus in the body. And most bottled supplements are way too small to do any good. Your gut flora weighs approx 3 lbs. Over here, probiotics have been essential, but not in regular doses.

Have you read Gary Huffnagle's book? A must read for his theory that antibiotics are the cause of it all with his research on yeast and allergies.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...84198/ggbc-20/

Kelly Karpa's book is more intensive about how gut flora interacts with immune system:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...09251/ggbc-20/

This is the second thread today that reminds me I need to read more about the details btw vaccines and gut flora.

I didn't have a C section but had huge amounts of antibiotics including 2 weeks of Cipro right before ttc. And antibx IV without my consent right after birth. Perhaps you should call it The Antibiotic Syndrome?

JaneS 08-02-2008 12:55 PM

What about oil of oregano instead of nystatin? I'm supposed to be trying it with DS but we have had several things going on recently and I'm trying to be systematic. His poops are perfect now but still on a very limited diet and he gets sinusitis a lot.

P73 Oreganol is supposed to be the best:

http://www.p-73.com/default.asp

JaneS 08-02-2008 12:57 PM

Lactose intolerance is gut flora pure and simple... lactobacillus makes the lactase enzyme in the small intestine. If you don't have this enzyme, you get gas and bloating from the indigested milk sugar.

JaneS 08-02-2008 01:00 PM

The only effective test for yeast is the organic acids, OAT test, on urine. It will measure the toxic by products produced by yeast. Stool testing is not necessarily accurate.

Calm 08-02-2008 07:05 PM

oregano oil is supposedly amazing. however my herbalist friend said it kills indiscriminantly. i haven't researched that yet. i have ordered some though. i will remain on a natural maintenance and an occasional bombing with something powerful will be on the agenda.

Calm 08-02-2008 07:09 PM

antibio syndrome would be more accurate - but i really want to target the pregnant and mothering women. too much unnecessary suffering in babies for my comfort.

on Dr Gordon's board i said "allergies can be healed" and the moderator said "we'll have to agree to disagree". this is the person that is doing all the advice giving on his board!

parents lose hope the way these issues are dealt with currently.

ellasmama2007 08-02-2008 08:11 PM

Quote:
This is the second thread today that reminds me I need to read more about the details btw vaccines and gut flora.
jane, this isnt specifically what you were talking about but it is a pretty decent read on how closely related autism, adhd, allergies and asthma are. it basically says something to the affect that the body will take toxic insults in different ways. what may lead to autism in some will lead to allergies in another etc. it has some good breakdowns on all the benefits of the many useful supplements out there too. fyi
in terms of the current discussion. calm, you are very right. pregnant women need to be educated further. i had a c-section and i am hoping to possibly vbac if i am fortunate enough to conceive again.

chantald 08-04-2008 05:41 PM

So.. upping probiotics will lessen lactose intolerance?

We did gf/cf here for a while.. my youngest stopped eating and got very sick.. we wont' be doing that again..

Calm 08-04-2008 06:47 PM

what is gf/cf (it's early morning here... )

mtn.mama 08-05-2008 12:29 AM

glten free casein free...

chantald 08-05-2008 08:26 AM

any thoughts on if 1/4 tsp of powdered nystatin per day would effectivly treat yeast overgrowth? How long would it take?

mtn.mama 08-05-2008 01:20 PM

I don't know about nystatin dosages, but my chiro started me on Morinda Supreme a couple of weeks ago and it seems to be quite effective quickly.


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