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#1 of 30 Old 08-03-2015, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sleep Training?

I heard that there was something called sleep training.It is supposed to help your newborn to get on the right schedule when it comes to sleeping. I want to know if any on has heard about this?
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#2 of 30 Old 08-03-2015, 09:52 AM
 
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Mothering.com doesnt really promote sleep training as it usually involves Cry It Out which goes against gentle and natural parenting.

Mama to L (7) and A (born 7/15 by VBAC)
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#3 of 30 Old 08-03-2015, 07:42 PM
 
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Goes against my nature completely. I find a baby's natural schedule changes every few weeks, and especially varies with teething times and growth spurts. Parents need to learn flexibility, little babies don't need to learn discipline. I see no reason to withhold comfort and reassurance to try and put them on an artificial schedule. Also, the most of very young ones and some older infants NEED one or several nighttime feedings, their little stomachs can't hold enough breastmilk to get them through the night without waking up with hunger pains.
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#4 of 30 Old 08-05-2015, 03:17 PM
 
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I think it really varies from baby to baby. Sleep training doesn't necessarily involve crying. There are three basic ways to sleep train: extinction (basically, you leave Baby after your pre-sleep routine without going in to him at all), graduated extinction (after your pre-sleep ritual, you leave baby for a few minutes at first, then go soothe for a few minutes, then gradually make the times away longer over a period of several nights), and lastly, there's the check and console technique (after pre-sleep routine, lay Baby in bed while he's drowsy but still awake; if he starts to whimper, soothe him without picking him up; if he cries full out, do whatever is necessary to soothe him, then put him back in bed and try again).

I'm the daughter of a mothering mag. parent (she picked up her first copy of Mothering the day she got out of the hospital with me, and says it's the best thing that ever happened to her as a parent), so I grew up with an 'alternative' style of parenting. I self-weaned at age 5 (I remember it vividly), refused solids until age 2, co-slept until age 2 (and often ended up in bed with my parents, even after I had my own room), was carried on demand until age 4, apart from my first DTP (from which I had an extreme allergic reaction) have never been vaccinated, was homeschooled through grade 12, was brought up Waldorf, was raised vegan...you get it. I'm the older sister of five, older cousin of many (most of whom I've babysat regularly since they were infants), godparent of one, and have been in childcare (parent's helper, babysitter, and nanny) for the past dozen years. I've worked with many, many babies. In my experience, when it comes to sleep, rule #1 is: Everyone in the household needs sleep, and the right amount of it. Rule #2 is: Every child is different, and the how and where she falls asleep should suit the needs of her individual temperament, as well as the needs of the family as a whole.

I used to be a firm believer in not letting a baby cry. Ever. Or if the baby was crying, the parent or caretaker should do everything in their power to comfort them, and by no means leave them to cry alone. I hated working for parents who wanted me to use cry-it-out, but I did, because it was my job. Then, I learned a powerful lesson in parenting (even though I'm not a parent, I still, in a way, parent the children in my care), which is, never make ultimatums.

A couple of years ago, I started working with an infant whose parents were going the attachment, co-sleeping route (which made me very happy). Baby had a co-sleeper, no cot, no cradle, no bassinet. He slept very well in his co-sleeper, both at night, and during the day. I'd put him down for a nap after about 90 minutes of wakefulness, and within 10 minutes of soothing (bottle, rocking, singing), he'd fall asleep and stay asleep for awhile. When I was with him, sometimes he'd sleep 4 hours alone in his little co-sleeper. Sometimes, he'd sleep in the ergo while we took a walk. He was happy, alert, everything was going well. Then, he turned 4 months (I've since learned that this is a crucial age when it comes to sleep patterns and the changing of those patterns). His sleep started getting worse and worse. At night, his parents told me, he'd wake every hour, not always to nurse, and would take awhile to fall back asleep each time. During the day, our 'nap' routine basically became: soothe for 30+ minutes (swaddling, rocking, running the water, white noise, dark room, sling, walks, lullabies - you name it), he'd finally fall asleep, he'd sleep in my arms (he wouldn't sleep in his bed at all) for 10-30 minutes, then he'd wake up screaming, and we'd go through it all again. I knew he was exhausted. We all read "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" and applied the techniques. Baby was happy with his new lovey, happy in his bed (while awake), we used sleep words, waiting by the bed to soothe him before he started to fully wake up...everything. No joy. After two months of things getting worse and worse (and Baby getting crabbier and crabbier), we all finally decided to give extinction training a try. The first night, the parents were expecting the worst. In reality, Baby cried about ten minutes, fell asleep, and slept for 12 hours straight. Naps took slightly longer for him to get used to, but there were daily improvements. I knew he was crying less total with extinction sleep training than before, when I was there, trying to soothe him, and he was definitely sleeping more (I kept copious notes).

It's been over two years since that experience, and Baby is still a good sleeper. He's attentive, alert, and happy. He trusts his parents and myself. He feels safe in his home, and he looks forward to his nap and bedtime (sometimes he puts me to 'sleep', reading me a story, giving me a bottle, singing me a lullaby - bless him!). I've also worked with a lot of babies whose parents chose not to make sleep a priority. I'm sure there are other factors, but from my observation, those babies consistently have more trouble taking in new information, are quicker to lose control (burst into tears so quickly that they don't even have time to explain to me what they're upset about; and will do this multiple times within the space of a few hours), have more trouble focusing, and all around seem to be displaying several signs of exhaustion.

So, bottom line, I recognise (although I can't relate to the same degree) a mother's agony at the mere thought of leaving her baby to 'cry-it-out'. And sometimes a baby will benefit much more from co-sleeping or some form of no-cry sleep training. Sometimes, extinction or graduated extinction training is so stressful on the child that it makes the child more overtired, rather than helping her to sleep better. But sometimes, a baby really just needs to be left alone. Either way, if the parents and/or the child aren't getting enough sleep, something has to change. Sometimes that change means extinction training. Sometimes that change means co-sleeping. But whatever you choose to do, parents need sleep and children need sleep. If the parents aren't well rested, they cannot be good parents (or if they are getting by, they will be even better parents when they aren't exhausted). If the children aren't well rested, they won't develop as well, they will struggle to learn new things, they will be more unhappy during waking hours, and they will be more susceptible to illness and injury. Sleep is important. Very important. It doesn't matter whether you're co-sleeping or are all in separate rooms. It doesn't matter if you have a 2-hour pre-sleep ritual or if you have a simple, 15 minutes - goodnight routine. What does matter is that everyone's sleeping, and everyone's getting the right amount of sleep for the age and life-stage they're currently at.
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#5 of 30 Old 08-05-2015, 03:50 PM
 
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I am a firm believer in "when it is night it is night and when it is day it is day"-approach. By this I mean that the key rule should be that at night you sleep and during the day you are awake unless you are too tired to stay awake then you get a nap. For a baby this means that if the baby is comforted and fed if necessary during the night but that the goal should always be sleep and if it is abosolutely necessary for some reason to get up this is done with minimal light and nothing fun happens. I needed to settle my baby by walking it around even at night during the first weeks and I did but I did so in the dark with minimal lighting. If diapers needed to be changed I only turned on a small light in the bathroom and changed them quickly and got back to bed for sleep. Progressively my baby learned that nights are boring and sleep is what we do now and while she woke up sometimes at night she started sleeping really well after about 5-6 weeks (at least 4 sometimes 6 hours). No crying or anything like that. We co-slept up until 15 months with starting the night on her own from about 5 months old. She had periods when she slept less and woke up more but the basic routine of 4-6 hours of sleep was what she fell back to up until she started sleeping in her own bed then she got down to waking once a night. At 18 months she slept through the night most nights. From age 2 she has slept in her own room, she is 3 now.

During the day however I acted the same way as when I didn't have a baby and the TV was on or we spoke with normal voices and the child often slept quite close to us. We had quite a lot more problems with day time sleep other than short naps but at about 8 months she settled into a stable routine of sleep after lunch for about 2 hours and kept this up until she was about 2 when she started to be up until 10-11 at night if she had a nap so we skipped naps and went for early bedtime at about 7 instead.

For us the big challenge was sleep during the day, at night it was actually OK for most of her babyhood. I do strongly believe in creating good night sleep and if it is necessary to do some experimenting with daysleep to achieve that I think that is the best policy when you are up yourself and have more energy rather than having to work with sleep at night when you are too tired.
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#6 of 30 Old 08-06-2015, 05:46 PM
 
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I felt when raising my kids it was important to try and establish boundaries. If we cater to their every sleep desire then they'll be on the completely wrong schedule. What I've tried to do is make their room as quiet as possible when it's time to go to bed, that way when they do finally calm down, it's a quiet area and they can associate the dark setting and quiet atmosphere with trying to relax and hopefully fall asleep!
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#7 of 30 Old 08-06-2015, 08:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kir081315 View Post
I heard that there was something called sleep training.It is supposed to help your newborn to get on the right schedule when it comes to sleeping. I want to know if any on has heard about this?
Also, I would just like to add that any sleep-training for a newborn (birth - 5 weeks) should NEVER involve cry-it-out. If there is any sleep training for a newborn, it should be very gentle. Extinction and graduated extinction methods are only ever recommended for babies 4 months or older. Before that, it's too harsh, too stressful, and their brains aren't developed to the point where it will actually do any good (and it can do harm). What you can do for a younger infant (if you're interested - I personally don't do this) is wait a small amount (about 30 seconds - 2 minutes) of time to see if their cry is just an 'in between sleep cycle' cry (babies often cry, whimper, or make other noises in their sleep) or if it's a fully-awake-I-need-you cry. With some babies, that small amount of waiting is enough to train their brain to fall asleep in between sleep cycles, so they're able to sleep for longer periods at night. At some point, everyone learns this (or else they have a serious sleep problem), because we all (adults included) wake up in between sleep cycles, and have been trained to fall back asleep quickly. We don't usually remember these brief wakings, but they're there, and that's why young babies often don't 'sleep through the night'; because they haven't yet learned to fall back asleep on their own.
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#8 of 30 Old 08-07-2015, 12:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeg8rl View Post
Also, I would just like to add that any sleep-training for a newborn (birth - 5 weeks) should NEVER involve cry-it-out. If there is any sleep training for a newborn, it should be very gentle. Extinction and graduated extinction methods are only ever recommended for babies 4 months or older. Before that, it's too harsh, too stressful, and their brains aren't developed to the point where it will actually do any good (and it can do harm). What you can do for a younger infant (if you're interested - I personally don't do this) is wait a small amount (about 30 seconds - 2 minutes) of time to see if their cry is just an 'in between sleep cycle' cry (babies often cry, whimper, or make other noises in their sleep) or if it's a fully-awake-I-need-you cry. With some babies, that small amount of waiting is enough to train their brain to fall asleep in between sleep cycles, so they're able to sleep for longer periods at night. At some point, everyone learns this (or else they have a serious sleep problem), because we all (adults included) wake up in between sleep cycles, and have been trained to fall back asleep quickly. We don't usually remember these brief wakings, but they're there, and that's why young babies often don't 'sleep through the night'; because they haven't yet learned to fall back asleep on their own.
A development of this idea is to walk in to the room when the baby makes a noise, slowly and quietly to not accidentally wake up a baby making noises while sleeping and not making a baby that is awake feel scared and carefully lay your hand on their tummy or head so that they know you are there. Many babies wake to check where mom and dad is as they do know they are helpless without us and they have no idea that there are no tigers in the bedroom but if they know that someone is there they will go back to sleep. I did this with my daughter from about 4 months or so, it might have worked earlier but I never felt the need to try it before that.
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#9 of 30 Old 08-10-2015, 11:39 AM
 
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Please see here for resources on baby's sleep. Mothering does not advocate or promote crying it out. Please refrain from posting information on CIO. Your posts may be removed.

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#10 of 30 Old 08-27-2015, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shoeg8rl View Post
Then, he turned 4 months (I've since learned that this is a crucial age when it comes to sleep patterns and the changing of those patterns). His sleep started getting worse and worse. At night, his parents told me, he'd wake every hour, not always to nurse, and would take awhile to fall back asleep each time.
Do you happen to know if he was popping on and off the breast? If so he probably needed to pee and it took him a while to be able to relax to do so. Around that age, I found that if my daughter was popping on and off the breast it meant she needed to pee and I could just take her to the toilet to pee and then she'd settle down for another several hours.
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#11 of 30 Old 08-27-2015, 02:20 PM
 
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Do you happen to know if he was popping on and off the breast? If so he probably needed to pee and it took him a while to be able to relax to do so. Around that age, I found that if my daughter was popping on and off the breast it meant she needed to pee and I could just take her to the toilet to pee and then she'd settle down for another several hours.
This was over two years ago, and I wasn't in bed with him. I do know that he usually slept in a co-sleeper attachment - not in the big bed with his parents - so I don't think that was the problem. He wasn't constantly nursing throughout the night. His mother told me she would try to nurse him back to sleep, but that didn't do anything. In fact, she tried just about everything (as I did with naps) to get him to settle, but it was very rough. He would cry a lot, and it would take him a long time to settle down; then 1-2 hours later, it would start all over again. This was every night for over two months. Also, he was wearing plastic nappies (not my decision - I would've chosen cloth if it was my child), and he didn't start using the toilet until age 2, so what you did with your child wouldn't have made sense for my charge and his family. What I do know is that extinction sleep training worked a miracle for him and his parents, everyone was able to sleep well once again, and it had absolutely no detrimental effect on his well-being (quite the opposite).
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#12 of 30 Old 08-31-2015, 03:12 PM
 
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Personally, I think a baby's sleep schedule changes too much in the first year for sleep training to really "work". Look at this chart - it shows all the different stages a baby goes through month by month from daytime to nighttime sleeping http://safesleep.monbaby.com/how-muc...s-a-baby-need/

With my LO, just as we figured out something that "worked," a couple weeks later it was out the window! But to each his own. If you're interested in sleep training (there are methods other than CIO) I say go with what works for you!
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#13 of 30 Old 08-05-2018, 03:59 AM
 
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Sleep Training

No matter kids or adults can form a habit after doing the same routine for times. So, my sleep training with my kids is to set up a bedtime schedule and try our best to stick to it. After a week or more, your kids will be used to its sleep time schedule.

Every time before bedtime, we do the following bedtime preparation to calm our kids:
1. Take a bath. Dress them warm and comfortable.
2. Feed him something before bed so that they won't be waken up at the middle of the night because of starving.
3. Pat their back or belly to comfort them.
4. Read one or two bedtime stories for kids.
5. Sing them a lullaby.
6. Choose a comfortable mattress firmness for your babes. (If the mattress is too soft, they will have a back pain; If the mattress is too hard, they will toss and turn during the whole night).

According to the kids sleeping chart, children of different age needs different sleep to maintain good daytime status. If kids don't have enough sleep time, that might cause severe effects on both their mental health and physical health. Better find the best solution so that your kids will have enough sleep.



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Originally Posted by MonicaP1987 View Post
I felt when raising my kids it was important to try and establish boundaries. If we cater to their every sleep desire then they'll be on the completely wrong schedule. What I've tried to do is make their room as quiet as possible when it's time to go to bed, that way when they do finally calm down, it's a quiet area and they can associate the dark setting and quiet atmosphere with trying to relax and hopefully fall asleep!
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#14 of 30 Old 08-29-2018, 01:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kir081315 View Post
I heard that there was something called sleep training.It is supposed to help your newborn to get on the right schedule when it comes to sleeping. I want to know if any on has heard about this?
I had heard about this but I haven't tried it. I think natural baby schedule will be the best. Babies don't need to be trained when it comes to sleeping.
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#15 of 30 Old 08-30-2018, 02:02 PM
 
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following the same sleep schedule everyday is sleep training actually. Need to use proper and effective methods to put baby sleep, also keep record of sleeping times.
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#16 of 30 Old 09-13-2018, 02:20 AM
 
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My wife taught the children to listen before bedtime lullabies. Still, she read the book by Elizabeth Pentley "how to put a child without tears." at first it was difficult to teach, but this music calms and sets up a dream ... I can tell the site, there is a huge selection:

lullabies-for-babies.com
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#17 of 30 Old 10-30-2018, 07:28 AM
 
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great input!
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#18 of 30 Old 11-07-2018, 10:47 AM
 
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I have been a maternity nurse for many years. As well as this I am the mother of four adult persons. Sleep training is something that you will develop with your baby, sticking to a few basic principals.
Always wake your baby at the same time each morning even if you only feed him two hours before.
Feed regularly during the day e.g three hourly if he is newly born This will extend to four hourly feeding as he consumes more milk
Wind him well after every feed so he settles comfortably.
Endeavour to ensure he is satisfied after each feed. By winding, then changing him and offering the best again he will refuse to eat if he is satisfied.
All this takes time, observation and understanding of your baby.
There is no perfect way you will learn as you go along.
There is a very useful sleep schedule you could try following loosely - Sleep Training Graph
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#19 of 30 Old 11-08-2018, 01:42 AM
 
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Feed regularly during the day e.g three hourly if he is newly born This will extend to four hourly feeding as he consumes more milk

Wind him well after every feed so he settles comfortably.

]

This advise directly contradicts current evidence and best practice guidelines regarding breastfeeding. Unless there is a medical indication for more frequent feeding then babies should be demand fed. The *average* will be a feed every three hours but this is only when measured over at least 24hrs. Most babies will feed more frequently than that, especially when establishing supply. If you restrict and/or time feeds you can have a significant impact on both milk production and weight gain as well as increasing the chances of engorgement ABs mastitis.




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#20 of 30 Old 11-16-2018, 02:09 AM
 
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Well, let them sleep in a natural way of training for a sleeping is not good especially for kids. But you can know more about the kid's sleeping because every child is different and due to that their sleeping timing is also different. Sometimes it also depends on birth timings. If the childbirth is in the morning then the will child sleep at night but if the birth timings are evening or late night then be ready to awake the whole night. Apart from this, you can get more information about the child sleep patterns from here https://www.lylamorris.com/newborn-sleep-patterns/
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#21 of 30 Old 01-19-2019, 09:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by elliha View Post
I am a firm believer in "when it is night it is night and when it is day it is day"-approach. By this I mean that the key rule should be that at night you sleep and during the day you are awake unless you are too tired to stay awake then you get a nap. For a baby this means that if the baby is comforted and fed if necessary during the night but that the goal should always be sleep and if it is abosolutely necessary for some reason to get up this is done with minimal light and nothing fun happens. I needed to settle my baby by walking it around even at night during the first weeks and I did but I did so in the dark with minimal lighting. If diapers needed to be changed I only turned on a small light in the bathroom and changed them quickly and got back to bed for sleep. Progressively my baby learned that nights are boring and sleep is what we do now and while she woke up sometimes at night she started sleeping really well after about 5-6 weeks (at least 4 sometimes 6 hours). No crying or anything like that. We co-slept up until 15 months with starting the night on her own from about 5 months old. She had periods when she slept less and woke up more but the basic routine of 4-6 hours of sleep was what she fell back to up until she started sleeping in her own bed then she got down to waking once a night. At 18 months she slept through the night most nights. From age 2 she has slept in her own room, she is 3 now.

During the day however I acted the same way as when I didn't have a baby and the TV was on or we spoke with normal voices and the child often slept quite close to us. We had quite a lot more problems with day time sleep other than short naps but at about 8 months she settled into a stable routine of sleep after lunch for about 2 hours and kept this up until she was about 2 when she started to be up until 10-11 at night if she had a nap so we skipped naps and went for early bedtime at about 7 instead.

For us the big challenge was sleep during the day, at night it was actually OK for most of her babyhood. I do strongly believe in creating good night sleep and if it is necessary to do some experimenting with daysleep to achieve that I think that is the best policy when you are up yourself and have more energy rather than having to work with sleep at night when you are too tired.
Thanks for sharing your personal experience with us.
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#22 of 30 Old 03-23-2019, 11:20 PM
 
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Baby sleep is necessary I understand as a being baby doctor but more important is feed good and make them wear bodysuit not tight but fully one so that they feel comfortable with their boby around and go in sleep with more deeply. also dreams are necessary then it should keep going.
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#23 of 30 Old 03-24-2019, 09:57 AM
 
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Never had about it but I have learnt alot as a new parent
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#24 of 30 Old 07-26-2019, 07:35 AM
 
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Just make some schedule and try to make presents when your baby makes everything well
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I absolutely agree with the opinion that it is very important to try and establish boundaries and daily regime. As soon as you start catering to a child's every sleep desire, then they'll be on the completely wrong schedule. More then all if you don't play and walk enough with your baby, sure he will not be tired and he won't go asleep. Fortunately, my husband ordered from https://bedroom.solutions/best-adjus...-15-pros-cons/ am adjustable bad for our bedroom while I was pregnant. So, it was a real pleasure to feed the babe with breast on it and sleep. It's really a cool thing for moms with small babies when they are tied together all day long.
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#26 of 30 Old 09-04-2020, 04:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DanOstin View Post
I absolutely agree with the opinion that it is very important to try and establish boundaries and daily regime. As soon as you start catering to a child's every sleep desire, then they'll be on the completely wrong schedule. More then all if you don't play and walk enough with your baby, sure he will not be tired and he won't go asleep. Fortunately, my husband ordered from https://bedroom.solutions/best-adjus...-15-pros-cons/ am adjustable bad for our bedroom while I was pregnant. So, it was a real pleasure to feed the babe with breast on it and sleep. It's really a cool thing for moms with small babies when they are tied together all day long.
Where can I find some more feedback?
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#27 of 30 Old 11-20-2020, 09:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mirandawhyte View Post
I had heard about this but I haven't tried it. I think natural baby schedule will be the best. Babies don't need to be trained when it comes to sleeping.
Yes, you are right. It usually happens first 6 to 10 months. As the babies grow bit their sleeping time match with their parents sleeping time.
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#28 of 30 Old 11-20-2020, 11:05 AM
 
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i am doing meditation bedore getting to bed
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#29 of 30 Old 11-21-2020, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MountainMamaGC View Post
Mothering.com doesnt really promote sleep training as it usually involves Cry It Out which goes against gentle and natural parenting.
I absolutely agree. I tried but couldn't do... not the best idea
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#30 of 30 Old 11-21-2020, 11:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DanOstin View Post
I absolutely agree with the opinion that it is very important to try and establish boundaries and daily regime. As soon as you start catering to a child's every sleep desire, then they'll be on the completely wrong schedule. More then all if you don't play and walk enough with your baby, sure he will not be tired and he won't go asleep. Fortunately, my husband ordered from https://bedroom.solutions/best-adjus...-15-pros-cons/ am adjustable bad for our bedroom while I was pregnant. So, it was a real pleasure to feed the babe with breast on it and sleep. It's really a cool thing for moms with small babies when they are tied together all day long.
great thing really!
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