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#1 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay - I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting really frustrated. It seemed to be better for a while - just an occasional lapse - but...ugh.

DS2 has peed on the floor 3 times today - twice on the living room carpet, and once on the lino in the hallway. The first time, I was doing something at the sink (washing a dish for breakfast, I think), and we had the following conversation:

Me: DS2, have you gone potty yet?
DS2: I don't need to and I don't want to.
Me: Sweetie, you always say that, and then you pee on the flo...
DD: Mom - he's peeing.

WTH? I'm losing it. I can't stand having pee on my carpets multiple times in a single day. It's gross and disgusting and we have a ton of other stuff to do around here. I've had to wash towels 3 times today, just from dealing with pee. I end up yelling at him, which isn't helping. I'm just so frustrated by this.

So - any thoughts on why? How to get this to stop? What on earth do I do? I've never dealt with anything like this before, and it really is getting on my last nerve.

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#2 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 08:42 PM
 
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Lisa -

this probably explains some of your other housekeeping woes I hate when my kids just make messes while I'm trying to clean in other areas of the house (like breakfast dishes).

The only thing I can suggest is actually putting him on the potty. like very hour or so and sitting with him until he goes. when I was potty training my older kids, thats how we did it. Trying to prevent accidents or whatever.

hang in there.
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#3 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lisa -

this probably explains some of your other housekeeping woes I hate when my kids just make messes while I'm trying to clean in other areas of the house (like breakfast dishes).

The only thing I can suggest is actually putting him on the potty. like very hour or so and sitting with him until he goes. when I was potty training my older kids, thats how we did it. Trying to prevent accidents or whatever.

hang in there.
This is definitely part of it. DS2 is a cyclone. Honestly, some days, I just give up before I even start - totally counter-productive, and I know that. After I posted that, I started reading Amelia Bedelia to dd. DS2 didn't want me to read it, and he went tearing through the living room, and dumped the easel (including all the magnet letters and chalk) on the floor. I'm just too tired to keep up with him most days...

I'll do that. This is just so unpredictable. He'll run off to use the potty (actually, the toilet - he never much liked a small potty) himself most days. When we're at homelearning meetups, he'll come ask me to use the bathroom, even though he's busy and there's a lot going on. Then, we have a day like this, completely out of the blue. *sigh*

I know I need to be the grown-up and cope with this, but I just want to curl up in bed.

(In relation to the cooking/cleaning/SAHM thing, at least tonight is quick-and-easy tacos. )

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#4 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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I think we've chatted about this before. I was having the same issues with my 3 year old. He never 'has to' go. I started making him. If I don't make him, he'll have an accident. He just doesn't think to go on his own, and by the time he does he can't get to the bathroom in time. Rather than pee on himself, he pees on the floor.

We've had a lot of success just making him go and pee, or at least try, every couple of hours. "I don't have to" isn't an option. EVERY time I ask him to try, he pees. Have you tried this?

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#5 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We've done that. I've had him sit on the potty for a few minutes, assure me that he doesn't have and/or can't go - then and get up, walk into the living room and...pee on the carpet. I honestly think he just prefers the carpet for some reason. (Sometimes, he walks in it if I don't get to him in time - maybe this is just some kind of sensory thing?? If it is sensory, I have no idea what else we could do, though...even water on the carpets isn't acceptable.) I'm having a really hard time keeping my cool on this one. I honestly thought he'd quit it for a couple weeks. Then, he started doing it once a day on Mondays (figured it had/has something to do with ds1 going back to school, and dh going back to work) most weeks. Today was unusual.

He's being generally difficult to deal with at the moment, but I can manage to cope with most of it. The peeing just...ack.

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#6 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 09:42 PM
 
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Can you try having him stand to pee? That made a big difference with my son. He won't sit to pee, at all, after seeing his big brother and his Dad standing up to pee.

We had a few 'show downs' on the peeing. I waited until I KNEW he had to go, and then sat in their with him until he did. Not fun, for either of us, but once he realized that when I said, "Go to the bathroom and pee" I really meant it, it got a lot easier.

We still have the occasional mishap if I am lax and forget to remind him to go, but otherwise its been pretty smooth sailing.

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#7 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 10:48 PM
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My DS1 is a month younger then your DS and some days he has accidents and some days he doesn't. I simply request him to use the potty before switching activities. If he has an accident we clean it up together. I feel with time the less of a big deal I make out of it the less he has accidents. If he says no I will say "How about I go with you to the potty, and we can bring what you are playing with" This seems to work for us.
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#8 of 36 Old 04-20-2009, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They're not accidents. I don't know what his motivation is, but he's doing this quite deliberately. I tried being calm for a long time, but it hasn't worked. If I could figure out why he does it, I'd probably get somewhere, but I've made no progress on this.

This is filthy. Having someone peeing on carpets all the time is just disgusting.

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#9 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 12:01 AM
 
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Like one poster already mentioned-have you tried letting him stand up to pee? My ds is close to yours in age and loves to do it that way.
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#10 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 12:05 AM
 
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Try something to aim at in the toilet, like a little duck or boat - that will make it fun
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#11 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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He can stand up to pee - not a problem. He does that sometimes, but not always. I may focus on that for a while, and see if it helps.

I'd actually forgotten when I posted that when he peed on the lino, he was still wearing his pants. We'd been back for a few minutes, and I was trying to get him to take the pants and shoes off (he walked in a fountain while we were out and was soaked to just above the knees). I was still in the middle of putting down library books, putting my keys away, etc. and he said he didn't want to take them off, so I was moving over to take them (because he'd climb all over everything and get everything wet)...and he stopped dead, and peed.

We'll see how tomorrow goes. I'll definitely think about the standing up thing, but he goes in by himself most times, and goes whatever way he wants.

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#12 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 01:40 AM
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i don't think they are accidents with my son either - I just find I get better results if I TREAT it like an accident

my son is a regular cyclone too (hugs) I know how frustrating it can be

My son will say "Look! I pee on the floor!" and I just say "Oh I see. We'll clean it up." and then we clean it up and I make sure to try to engage him in using the potty more (as mentioned above)...

How it is with my son though, and IDK if you think your son may be the same, but my son I think can pick up on my anxiety and frustration around the issue and then has more accidents. I swear the more I stress about it the more 'accidents' (or on purposes if you will) he has - but the more I treat it like just another run of the mill accident the less pee that ends up on the floor.
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#13 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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I feel your pain! my 3yo DS did something similar for awhile (and occasionally still does). He mostly did it when he wasn't getting his way, even over something seemingly very minor. I tried several things, including having him clean up... the main two that seemed to help 1.) I told him that if he couldn't do a better job with the potty, then he could wear diapers again. He didn't like that idea. and 2.) did my best to ignore it. I realized he was trying to retaliate and/or get attention for it (my DH really made a big deal out of it) once we just ignored it, ds wasn't getting anything out of it anymore. I would quietly get a towel, not say a thing about it, and clean up. It's been getting steadily better since then.

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#14 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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Whenever people do something "wrong" they are doing it because they get something out of it - what does your son gain by peeing on the floor? Your attention? (does it usually happen when you are out of the room or otherwise engaged?)

Does it make everyone focus on him? Does it make him feel in control of the situation?

If what he's getting out of the floor-peeing is attractive enough, he will put up with being yelled at or any other sort of consequence.
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#15 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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I was thinking this same thing - if you think your DS is doing this on purpose then he must be doing it for a reason. Find the reason, then you can find the solution.

The four 'reasons' for 'misbehaviour' that child behaviourists look for are Power, Attention, Revenge and Learned Helplessness.

Is your DS peeing on the floor because this is something he can control, a way of gaining some power in his little world?
Is it a way of gaining attention? Kids who need attention will do some wild tricks to get it, even if its negative attention they attract.
Is he doing it as revenge, a way of getting back at someone or something?
Is it learned helplessness? Has he had a set back on the toilet and now feels he can't make it, so why bother?

If you think he is doing this on purpose then I would find the underlying cause. It might sound counterproductive - but taking the focus off the toilet (as annoying as it is) is probably the best temporary solution. Tell us why you think he does this and we'll see if we can come up with a solution

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#16 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 01:06 PM
 
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Another thing I did was ban him from the carpeted rooms until he'd gone pee in the potty first. This was doable for me though because only the bedrooms are carpeted. So if he wanted to go and play in the rooms with his brothers, he had to take a potty break first.

Honestly, I would've resorted to diapers if we wouldn't have made progress on this. We are renting. One of the bedrooms suddenly started smelling like urine so bad I couldn't even go IN there. I doused it with vinegar / water several times and let it dry and the smell is now gone, but I just couldn't let him do that constantly. I made a big deal about it. We had many, many, many talks about it. "Good morning! Did you have a good sleep? Where are you going to go potty today? In the toilet ONLY? Yeah!!! That would be really really big of you!!"

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#17 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 01:13 PM
 
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DD went through a phase of "accidents" about a year after potty training. It was SO frustrating.

In her case I think part of it was that she didn't want to leave what she was doing till the very last minute. Other times I feel she was just being stubborn.

In the end we did a sticker chart. She got a sticker each night if she had been dry all day. When we reached the end of the chart (about 14 stickers I think) we took her swimming. I was a bit worried that the one sticker per day thing would mean once she had one accident she would stop trying for the day but it didn't seem to be a problem.

I've heard of people putting a ping pong ball in the toilet for aiming practice. Maybe that would make the toilet more fun
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#18 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The four 'reasons' for 'misbehaviour' that child behaviourists look for are Power, Attention, Revenge and Learned Helplessness.
hmm...don't think it's attention, as it often (not always) happens when I'm paying attention to him, but maybe...could be a delayed reaction of sorts. Revenge is also possible, because he really doesn't like being thwarted. I mean - nobody likes not getting their way, but he really melts down.

I am interested in the fact that he does it on Mondays more than any other day, though. I'm sure it has something to do with dh and ds1 not being home.

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If you think he is doing this on purpose then I would find the underlying cause. It might sound counterproductive - but taking the focus off the toilet (as annoying as it is) is probably the best temporary solution. Tell us why you think he does this and we'll see if we can come up with a solution
It's hard to pin things down around here. My parenting hasn't been of the highest caliber over the last year or two. I was a total wreck after we lost Aaron, and the exhaustion (probably because I'm anemic) in this pregnancy has been extreme, even for me. So, the kids haven't had as much time and attention as they should have. I tend to just kind of veg a lot...usually on the computer, but sometimes even on the couch. Unfortunately, I can't even cuddle with ds2 that much, because he has an unpleasant habit of hitting/head butting me in the stomach, and it hurts...a lot. So, I have to put him down a lot.

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#19 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 05:10 PM
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I'm sorry, I cant remember if you mentioned or not, but does your child have any sensory issues?

also, we did ask my son when he started having a ton of acidents if he wanted to go back to diapers. It wasn't in a punitive way though, it was just letting him know he could if he wanted to.
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#20 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If he has any sensory issues, we're unaware of it. From what little I've read about this stuff, I don't think so. Aside from a very strong love of water (puddles, baths, going in the pool, pouring, etc., etc.), I haven't noticed anything along those lines. I do think he likes the feel of walking on the warm pee on the carpet, though. *sigh*

So, today, he peed all down the stairs (carpeted), so I told him to get a towel, and I got up to walk over and supervise. When I got there, he had every towel out of the linen closet, and was using one towel per stair to clean it up. I only just got them all folded and put away last night!! (I have to admit it was pretty funny, though.)

And, now both his pairs of shoes are sitting out front to dry in the sun. He peed on his runners yesterday, and today, he got into the drinking water for the goats at the farm, and soaked himself up to mid-thigh - and fouled their water.

I don't know how I'm going to survive 9.5 more weeks of pregnancy with this child!

ETA: He doesn't want to wear diapers again. He loves not having to wear them.

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#21 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 09:40 PM
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almost every time you share about your son, I just really hear sensory issues, but maybe it's just because its close to home for me. I would consider it... in the meantime, i really do recommend you look at it as an accident even if you *know* its on purpose.
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#22 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It doesn't really make much difference. I think this will all disappear to a great extent once I have the baby and am over the surgery.

To be totally honest, ds2 hasn't had the most wonderful mom in the world for a good part of his life, and I'm sure that contributes to all this stuff. Kids need - and deserve - a lot of parental attention, and it's been hard to give him that.

Got any links on sensory issues? I've wondered a couple times, but I've only read a little, and it hasn't seemed that way. Maybe I should dig a little deeper...

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#23 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 10:49 PM
 
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Maybe it's anxiety?

My condolences on your loss; I can't even imagine how awful that must have been and I don't blame you for being depressed and "vegging' out.

Perhaps your son sees you pregnant again and fears that all the things that happened last time will happen again. Or perhaps he has some sadness over the loss of his brother that he can't express in conventional ways.

What does he say when you ask him why he pees on the carpet?
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#24 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 11:27 PM
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sensory issues can be mild to severe, so sometimes its hard to tell. Even children who don't have a sensory disorder may still have some sensory issues. This could cause your son to become overstimulated quickly, so that would be a reason why he gets your attention then refuses to use the toilet and has an accident.

here is a good link:
http://www.sensory-processing-disord...checklist.html

my life would have been so much easier if my mom realized my sensory problems growing up.

btw - i am worlds worst mom when pregnant myself - its all about survival for me at that point - dont feel bad, I imagine we arent alone in that.
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#25 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe it's anxiety?

My condolences on your loss; I can't even imagine how awful that must have been and I don't blame you for being depressed and "vegging' out.

Perhaps your son sees you pregnant again and fears that all the things that happened last time will happen again. Or perhaps he has some sadness over the loss of his brother that he can't express in conventional ways.
That's all possible. He was only 2.5 when we lost Aaron, and he understood enough to be sad, but...he really didn't get what was going on, yk? He was much more directly affected by my incapacity due to the c-section...and that will be happening again, although hopefully to a lesser degree (even my physical recovery that time was brutal).

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What does he say when you ask him why he pees on the carpet?
"I don't know."
I think that's pretty accurate. DS2 is very...primal...

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#26 of 36 Old 04-21-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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Maybe he understands the situation as "when there's a baby in mom's tummy, she goes to the hospital and comes back tired and sad and can't take care of me for a long time."

I don't know how to fix that, unfortunately! Will you have help after the baby comes?
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#27 of 36 Old 04-22-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Hi everyone, pretty new here but just wanted to offer a little something to this thread. My dd (turned 3 in Feb) has some sensory issues and absolutely refused to wear a diaper 6 mos ago. We weren't pushing for potty training...but had to....immediately. Couldn't put a diaper back on and couldn't let her pee everywhere (Imagine my surprise). Anyways, she trained quickly but sometimes regresses because she doesn't want to go, is too busy, can make the feeling go away, you name it...she's done it. Including pee on my floor all day! Long story short....all I was really concerned about at this point was making it stop. I'm not really one for bribery but I have to tell you that M&M's went a long way on this one. The more she pees on the potty...the more M&M's she would get (pee 1x get 2m&m's...so on). I don't normally give her candy so this was a HUGE bonus for her. When the candy was gone we'd make a big deal over her going potty all by herself until she's successful most of the time (accidents do happen). We've only had to go back to the M&M's twice in 6 mos. A potty chart might give your child some incentive too....we all seem to work harder when there's a great reward at the end (if you don't want to use M&M's something else might work too...like stickers). Anyways, best of luck. I know it's a tough time. We still have our rough times too.
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#28 of 36 Old 04-22-2009, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe he understands the situation as "when there's a baby in mom's tummy, she goes to the hospital and comes back tired and sad and can't take care of me for a long time."

I don't know how to fix that, unfortunately! Will you have help after the baby comes?
DH has a couple days off. My mom lives nearby, and is always willing to take me or dh shopping and such. DS1 is also on summer vacation. He's 16, and really good with the kids and very responsible (except for a problem with procrastination). I'm not sure how much he'll be home, because I'm hoping he'll get a summer job, but he'll definitely be around for the first little bit. He can definitely take them to the playground or the farm for an hour or so each day that he's home, which will be good for them.

That's about it, but I think we'll be okay.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#29 of 36 Old 04-22-2009, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
sensory issues can be mild to severe, so sometimes its hard to tell. Even children who don't have a sensory disorder may still have some sensory issues. This could cause your son to become overstimulated quickly, so that would be a reason why he gets your attention then refuses to use the toilet and has an accident.

here is a good link:
http://www.sensory-processing-disord...checklist.html

my life would have been so much easier if my mom realized my sensory problems growing up.

btw - i am worlds worst mom when pregnant myself - its all about survival for me at that point - dont feel bad, I imagine we arent alone in that.
I'm going to bookmark that and look it over more closely when I get back from Atlanta (I'm leaving tomorrow). Just skimming through it, some of it does seem like ds2 - and some of it seems like dd (she seems to be more on the "hyper" side, and he seems more on the "hypo" side)...and some of it matches up to things I've heard about dh as a child.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#30 of 36 Old 04-22-2009, 06:54 PM
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I hope it gives you some ideas/insight that will be useful to you. I really think that a lot of people have some "sensory" things, doesn't mean they have the disorder, but just different things feel different to different people, and some people have "extreme" reactions to the way some things feel. As they become adults they know what those things are and how to avoid and cope with those things. A child on the other hand, until they learn this, need help - and it can overwhelm them and make them feel "off" or "not right" in some ways. Sometimes you can barely touch my son and he screams it hurts. Some people tell him "that didnt hurt!" and I have to say that to him it did. I have to just trust it hurts. Maybe it doesn't, but I rather assume he is telling the truth about how he feels then that he is lying. Where as "deep pressure" feels good to him and does not hurt. So, same with accidents. Though sometimes they seem very much on purpose, its been helpful to look at them as accidents, and realize that his sensory issues may play a role for him in that. He may not feel like he has to pee and then suddenly has to go so bad he can't get to the bathroom in time. Or he may be in a "no-saying mood" and gets so distracted by my suggestion to go to the bathroom that he can't feel his urge to go. Or sometimes he may need to be reminded. I've found it can at times be a delicate balance. Some weeks he does great and there is no thought involved. Other weeks I have to walk the tight rope between helping him remember without overwhelming him with my own emotions tied to the issue.
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