Alfie Kohn blasts "Supernanny" - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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#151 of 529 Old 08-30-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
My folks used punishment, corporal and otherwise. Time-outs, go to your room, etc...

And I DID feel that love was being withdrawn.

My mom told me (when I asked her about what she thought of SuperNanny, and this thread...) that one day she listened outside my room as I talked to my invisible friend (I was 4) about being punished... "It's like she loves and then she hates me, and then she loves me and then she hates me again...! I wish she would just pick one..."
PrennaMama, I have a very similar memory. My parents rarely, rarely used corporal punishment (I have no memory of them doing so, but my mother has told me that I was spanked maybe twice - and she keeps apologizing for it ). But I was sent to my room for time outs.

I remember role playing with stuffed animals with a friend; we were the moms and the stuffed animals were the "kids." We were punishing the animals for various things, and we'd "send them to their rooms" and tell them "Stay there - don't come out no matter what - we don't care if you get sick or die or anything." My mom overheard and was SHOCKED and said something like "Oh, no! But that's not very nice! We don't treat you that way!"

And obviously now I realize that of course they would care if I was sick, or 'really' needed something while in time out, and would have taken care of me. But apparently, in my four-year-old black-and-white-seeing mind, I didn't perceive it that way. I don't know why I have such a clear memory of that day - I think it was just my utter confusion as to why she'd be so shocked since in my mind I was just playing out what I thought was happening, you know?

Anyway, the memory has stuck with me for whatever reason, and I'm grateful for the little window of insight into my young child's mind.
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#152 of 529 Old 08-30-2008, 11:15 PM
 
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My take on parenting is that it is just like breastfeeding -very natural.
Right. That's cool that it's all been so instinctual for you. I was glad to have some help getting started breastfeeding ... I'm also glad for how La Leche League, and later the Sears, and later sites like MDC and Gentle Christian Mothers, as well as writers like Kohn, Sandra Dodd, Sarah Fitz-Clarigde, WuWei, etetera, etcetera, helped me begin a new journey of re-thinking my parenting philosophy.

I'm sorry if it's embarrassing to you to live in the same society with someone who feels a need to read and discuss and re-think ... someone who sees herself as a continual journeyer -- who never feels that she's "arrived."

In fairness to me, it seems to be part of my "natural instinct" to read and discuss and devour ideas (and digest, digest, digest). It doesn't feel very natural to me, to do much of anything without talking about it. And, uhm, maybe my house is so messy 'cause I can't find enough people who want to psychoanalyze cleaning my toilets with me.

So, I guess we're all just following our instincts, huh? -- unless we're not. Now that's profound -- but I'm not sure if I understand enough of what I really meant to clarify, Prennamama!

Susan -- married WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005), who started out unschooling and have now embarked on the public school adventure.
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#153 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 12:30 AM
 
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I want the next generation of daughters to be confident in their roles as mothers -however they see fit to approach it- not to one day look back at us and say "you truly had no idea what you were doing."

My point is -if your household is in need of a supernanny- all of that negotiating, talking, sharing, reasoning, and compromising with your children obviously wasn't working. And to be honest by that time it's usually -but not always- too late.
I really love this...really, really love it.

"Authentic" mothering only happens when we, as mothers, listen and follow our own instincts...ignoring, or rebelling against the many who would have us believe that we're not good enough.
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#154 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 01:24 AM
 
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"Authentic" mothering only happens when we, as mothers, listen and follow our own instincts...ignoring, or rebelling against the many who would have us believe that we're not good enough.
I think that this is an interesting statement in the context of this conversation. It's a beautiful one in my humble opinion, and I agree with it.
As a first time mother who wasn't planning on having children, I had never really thought of parenting until faced with pregnancy. Then I was confused and frightened because the conventional methods of disciplining felt wrong to me. They went against my intuition and instinct. I didn't know what to replace convention with, in many regards. Such as cosleeping, child-led weening, cloth diapering, exclusive breastfeeding, delaying solids, gentle discipline, not vaccinating etc. I feel that having read certain books opened my eyes to alternatives, that actually rang true with my "gut". I had no idea what attachment parenting was, but when I read about it I thought "right, of course, that's perfect for me". The same is true for me with Unconditional Parenting. Perhaps I would be parenting the same way had I not read such insightful materials, but I don't think I would be as self-assured in it. Especially given the parenting that was modeled to me.
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#155 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 01:47 AM
 
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So then, what is Kohn's practical advice for preventing/stopping aggression among siblings who are less than 2 years apart (and 3 and under)?
My interpretation of his advice would be to instill a sense of morality and empathy. He writes how time-outs often leave the child angry and focusing on the punishment instead of thinking about what got them punished. For example, when a child hits a sibling a parent might say "it really hurts sibling when you hit him, see how sibling is crying? it made sibling sad" or something along those lines.
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#156 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 02:15 AM
 
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My interpretation of his advice would be to instill a sense of morality and empathy. He writes how time-outs often leave the child angry and focusing on the punishment instead of thinking about what got them punished. For example, when a child hits a sibling a parent might say "it really hurts sibling when you hit him, see how sibling is crying? it made sibling sad" or something along those lines.
we did this when we were having problems with my 18 m.o. hitting. It seemed to work. We would practice the emotions with dollies, etc. and talk about how it felt (and we would act it out). If we saw it happening with others (on the playground, etc.) we would stop to talk about it and revisit the subject later.
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#157 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 02:34 AM
 
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"Authentic" mothering only happens when we, as mothers, listen and follow our own instincts...ignoring, or rebelling against the many who would have us believe that we're not good enough.
Well, my instincts are to rage and hit and get into power struggles where I win and get to be in control.

In my opinion, someone--anyone--should tell me that that's not good enough. Because it's not. That's the cycle of abuse.

Alfie Kohn's paradigm helps me shift away from that win/lose, me/them, control/be controlled thought process that is my "go-to" response. When I'm not trying to win a power struggle, there is no need for me to feel like I have to up the ante. There is no ante.

Supernanny, on the other hand, feeds into that instinct to control and win and make the child "do." That's a real slippery slope for me, and I can't imagine how playing out shades of that dynamic in my house isn't going to result in kids who have shades of that instinct when they grow up, too.

If needing the insight and redirection of others makes me not authentic, then that's OK. But left to my own devices? Not so hot. I'll take all the help I can get.
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#158 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 02:51 AM
 
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what i am getting from I-AM-Mother's post is that in the absence of a collective wisdom passed down from generations of mothers/parents, it's all too easy to fall into 'particular schools of parenting', if you will. it's really not about what alfie kohn (or super nanny) thinks how someone should parent (or not parent), but, observing, listening and responding to a child's innate and very individual nature. no one has yet written a 'one size fits all children and households' manual yet. i think.
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#159 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 07:33 AM
 
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Well, my instincts are to rage and hit and get into power struggles where I win and get to be in control.

In my opinion, someone--anyone--should tell me that that's not good enough. Because it's not. That's the cycle of abuse.

Alfie Kohn's paradigm helps me shift away from that win/lose, me/them, control/be controlled thought process that is my "go-to" response. When I'm not trying to win a power struggle, there is no need for me to feel like I have to up the ante. There is no ante.

Supernanny, on the other hand, feeds into that instinct to control and win and make the child "do." That's a real slippery slope for me, and I can't imagine how playing out shades of that dynamic in my house isn't going to result in kids who have shades of that instinct when they grow up, too.

If needing the insight and redirection of others makes me not authentic, then that's OK. But left to my own devices? Not so hot. I'll take all the help I can get.
:
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#160 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 09:31 AM
 
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My interpretation of his advice would be to instill a sense of morality and empathy. He writes how time-outs often leave the child angry and focusing on the punishment instead of thinking about what got them punished. For example, when a child hits a sibling a parent might say "it really hurts sibling when you hit him, see how sibling is crying? it made sibling sad" or something along those lines.
We did this, too. Now, virtually every time one of my kids hurts the other, they seem genuinely remorseful afterward. They apologize, hug, and kiss. We never force apologies, and I haven't seen my kids look resentful or detached afterward. We stay connected to them, and they stay connected to us and to each other.

I also haven't seen it mentioned here that time outs are not more effective than UP methods. It's not like one time out will stop bad behavior in it's tracks. The hope is that eventually it will sink in with the child that hitting means time out, and the hitting will stop. Well, talking to your kids accomplishes the same thing. Every time there is hitting, we talk to them, and the message sinks in that hitting hurts, and there are better ways to express your anger or frustration.
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#161 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 10:02 AM
 
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PrennaMama, I have a very similar memory. My parents rarely, rarely used corporal punishment (I have no memory of them doing so, but my mother has told me that I was spanked maybe twice - and she keeps apologizing for it ). But I was sent to my room for time outs.

I remember role playing with stuffed animals with a friend; we were the moms and the stuffed animals were the "kids." We were punishing the animals for various things, and we'd "send them to their rooms" and tell them "Stay there - don't come out no matter what - we don't care if you get sick or die or anything." My mom overheard and was SHOCKED and said something like "Oh, no! But that's not very nice! We don't treat you that way!"

And obviously now I realize that of course they would care if I was sick, or 'really' needed something while in time out, and would have taken care of me. But apparently, in my four-year-old black-and-white-seeing mind, I didn't perceive it that way. I don't know why I have such a clear memory of that day - I think it was just my utter confusion as to why she'd be so shocked since in my mind I was just playing out what I thought was happening, you know?

Anyway, the memory has stuck with me for whatever reason, and I'm grateful for the little window of insight into my young child's mind.

This is what I like about Kohn as well. He points out that it really is important how the children view it, not just how we as parents think they should take the message. I know so many parents who (well every other parent I know tbh!) practice the use of punishments, threats, rewards/charts, praise...etc... They are only looking at it through their eyes. But Kohn helps us look at it through the child's eyes. Of course we love our children! We will always love them. But its important that the children know this and see and feel that we love them unconditionally and that using such parenting tactics can really screw this message up because do a 4 year old, the world really is black and white!
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#162 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 10:19 AM
 
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Well, my instincts are to rage and hit and get into power struggles where I win and get to be in control.

In my opinion, someone--anyone--should tell me that that's not good enough. Because it's not. That's the cycle of abuse.

Alfie Kohn's paradigm helps me shift away from that win/lose, me/them, control/be controlled thought process that is my "go-to" response. When I'm not trying to win a power struggle, there is no need for me to feel like I have to up the ante. There is no ante.

Supernanny, on the other hand, feeds into that instinct to control and win and make the child "do." That's a real slippery slope for me, and I can't imagine how playing out shades of that dynamic in my house isn't going to result in kids who have shades of that instinct when they grow up, too.

If needing the insight and redirection of others makes me not authentic, then that's OK. But left to my own devices? Not so hot. I'll take all the help I can get.
This is the same with me.
In theory, mothers natural instinct is all well and good....like communism...in theory, it sounds great!...But in practice, not always so.
Unfortunately for some, our 'instincts' have been conditioned. This is why our society needs people like Kohn and Pam Leo, etc...
I was raised in foster care. I was raised in abusive homes. What comes 'natural' to me - I know to be conditioned. What comes natural to me is to shout and to hit, etc...I have had enough therapy to know that this is not a good thing and to know that this is not how I want my son (or any other children I may have!) to be raised!
From an anthropological point of view, even with someone who grew up in a 'normal' home with a 'happy' life, etc...I view a lot of things as 'natural' to our society that even I do not agree with. Such as bottle feeding, putting babies in a cot in their own room at a month old, using pushchairs/prams, ignoring a small childs feelings, using size and strength and age in a bully manner against the children, etc...This isnt natural though!...or course its not!... But this is what a lot of parents find come to them through pure instinct because this is what they have been conditioned with. The natural instinct of other cultures can clearly be seen compared to our 'western world'. But even mothers of the massi have to ask the older generation sometimes for advice I am sure. Sure, a lot of this was conditioned as well though.
Some of us are able to step outside of that box and question it. Without much else around to give us the alternative, we turn to books and research and websites such as MDC.
Some of us may have even been lucky though. My son will be the lucky one - I know this. He will turn to his instinct when he has a child of his own. But curiosity being a natural human instinct as well, he will also probably read some books.
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#163 of 529 Old 08-31-2008, 11:14 AM
 
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I really love this...really, really love it.

"Authentic" mothering only happens when we, as mothers, listen and follow our own instincts...ignoring, or rebelling against the many who would have us believe that we're not good enough.
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Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Well, my instincts are to rage and hit and get into power struggles where I win and get to be in control.

In my opinion, someone--anyone--should tell me that that's not good enough. Because it's not. That's the cycle of abuse.

Alfie Kohn's paradigm helps me shift away from that win/lose, me/them, control/be controlled thought process that is my "go-to" response. When I'm not trying to win a power struggle, there is no need for me to feel like I have to up the ante. There is no ante.

Supernanny, on the other hand, feeds into that instinct to control and win and make the child "do." That's a real slippery slope for me, and I can't imagine how playing out shades of that dynamic in my house isn't going to result in kids who have shades of that instinct when they grow up, too.

If needing the insight and redirection of others makes me not authentic, then that's OK. But left to my own devices? Not so hot. I'll take all the help I can get.
I think the difference is "instinct" and "conditioning". I feel like the need to control, win, and do things to the child are things that we are taught. It was done to us, so we feel we need to do it to them. But in my experience, when I do that to kids, this is where the instinct part kicks in. It doesn't feel right. That is what makes me so grateful for Alfie Kohn and his insights. He validated for me that no, it wasn't right, and it isn't okay, and gave me an alternative way to think about, act towards, and interact with my daughter and all children that I come in contact with.
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#164 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 12:47 AM
 
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My point is -if your household is in need of a supernanny- all of that negotiating, talking, sharing, reasoning, and compromising with your children obviously wasn't working. And to be honest by that time it's usually -but not always- too late.
I'll admit that I've only seen one episode of Supernanny -- but judging by that one episode, as well as what I've heard on this thread about the families that call on Supernanny -- it doesn't sound like these parents are doing a ton of negotiating, talking, sharing, reasoning, and compromising with their children.

It's true that whatever they've been doing doesn't seem to be working -- but I haven't heard anyone on this thread imply that what they were doing was Unconditional Parenting.

Another thing: It's interesting to me that there's criticism of Kohn for not giving more practical advice -- and at the same time there's criticism of Kohn's readers for not following their instincts. Of all the parenting authors I've read, Kohn definitely leans more toward allowing parents room to figure out the specifics.

He challenges us to re-think our parenting philosophy -- then it's pretty much up to us to figure out where we go from there. So in a sense we're developing new instincts and following them.

Susan -- married WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005), who started out unschooling and have now embarked on the public school adventure.
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#165 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 12:51 AM
 
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It sounds like Kohn is envious of Supernanny's success! LOL

And, a few links to studies would be warranted, here:




Seriously.
There are many links to studies in his books. His research is well documented. I would recommend reading them before judging him negatively. In fact, I'm amazed that some people discount his ideas without having read his work.
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#166 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 08:14 AM
 
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I'll admit that I've only seen one episode of Supernanny -- but judging by that one episode, as well as what I've heard on this thread about the families that call on Supernanny -- it doesn't sound like these parents are doing a ton of negotiating, talking, sharing, reasoning, and compromising with their children.

It's true that whatever they've been doing doesn't seem to be working -- but I haven't heard anyone on this thread imply that what they were doing was Unconditional Parenting.

Another thing: It's interesting to me that there's criticism of Kohn for not giving more practical advice -- and at the same time there's criticism of Kohn's readers for not following their instincts. Of all the parenting authors I've read, Kohn definitely leans more toward allowing parents room to figure out the specifics.

He challenges us to re-think our parenting philosophy -- then it's pretty much up to us to figure out where we go from there. So in a sense we're developing new instincts and following them.

Thats another good thing about kohn IMO. ...and thats somethign he points out in his books as well. He pretty much says in UP that his book is not a 5 point plan on how you should parent your child and that there is not going to be step by step advice on how to deal with behaviour. He puts across the parenting philosophy and suggests how we can ease ourselves into it and then leaves it open to us to figure out how that will work and look in our own family setting. Its not a book that says: if your child does this, do this and if your child behaves like this, do this and if your child and at 3PM do this and this....XYZ...etc.. That is exactly what he is trying to steer away from because he realises that all children and all families are different. This is one of the main features that makes his book different. Its not a step by step plan parenting book.
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#167 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 08:47 AM
 
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I have not read the thread, just the op, and I do like Alfie alot:

The reality television wawe has hit Norway too, where I live. They did start a norwegian supernanny show, but after one season it was banned here. Not for the methods used (which were about the same - maybe a little gentler. Spanking is illegal here). It was taken off the air because it was decided that for the children it was a human rights violation. Children that young have no say so and they have no idea how being on television is going to affect their lives. They are not acting, so filming their private lifes was deemed unethical. I think it was based on som guidlines from Unicef. I was happy when it was taken off the air. And it felt good that the popularity (it was popular) did not "win" over childrens rights.
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#168 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 10:11 AM
 
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i find this whole nature vs nurture argument here interesting, yet it begs the question.

we live in a society that for the most part does not respect children.
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#169 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 10:13 AM
 
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I have not read the thread, just the op, and I do like Alfie alot:

The reality television wawe has hit Norway too, where I live. They did start a norwegian supernanny show, but after one season it was banned here. Not for the methods used (which were about the same - maybe a little gentler. Spanking is illegal here). It was taken off the air because it was decided that for the children it was a human rights violation. Children that young have no say so and they have no idea how being on television is going to affect their lives. They are not acting, so filming their private lifes was deemed unethical. I think it was based on som guidlines from Unicef. I was happy when it was taken off the air. And it felt good that the popularity (it was popular) did not "win" over childrens rights.

wow...thats telling
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#170 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 11:33 AM
 
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wow...thats telling
Yeah, too bad children do not have the same rights here in the USA.
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#171 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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Yeah, too bad children do not have the same rights here in the USA.
I second that emotion!

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#172 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 01:35 PM
 
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Control over my child is not my goal.

And I'm quite confident my ds would act as apparently unreasonable as the kids on tv in those circumstances.

(Personally I think those kids are behaving perfectly reasonable considering how they are being ordered about by a stranger, having their parents listening to that stranger instead of them, having sudden radical changes made with no warning or explanation.)
Seriously.

I don't value blind obediance. So supernanny isn't for me. We're raising children, not training dogs...

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#173 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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i haven't read everything yet but i felt compeled to post (maybe this has already been touched on)

i think (in general) most people like SN because it makes them feel superior... ie at least my family isn't that messed up. AND because the techniques she uses are the easy way out. it takes alot of work to do unconditional parenting. it takes being present for your children and throwing out all your old thoughts on children. it takes listening to them, really listening to them, putting their needs ahead of your own at times. it means modeling the behavior you want them to do not just popping them in time out when they don't do what you want the way you want it.
as for the co-sleeping and ebf... who is to say what those families really felt like about that. that is all edited so it looks a certain way. i know the families ask her to come in and help but what we see and reality are 2 vastly different things.
when i read alphie kohn's stuff at first i always get defensive because what he says is almostly the exact opposite of what mainstream society is telling us. it is nothing most of us grew up with and no one ever taught us this. it is also something some (if not most) people come to after they have parented a different way for awhile. it is hard to do it, but it is worth it.
you can't zoom down what kohn teaches in to a 30 minute show. he could work with one family for a whole season it takes time and an investment in your children to raise them well. peiople just don't want to take that time. they want quick easy fixes.

h

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#174 of 529 Old 09-01-2008, 03:08 PM
 
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i haven't read everything yet but i felt compeled to post (maybe this has already been touched on)

i think (in general) most people like SN because it makes them feel superior... ie at least my family isn't that messed up. AND because the techniques she uses are the easy way out. it takes alot of work to do unconditional parenting. it takes being present for your children and throwing out all your old thoughts on children. it takes listening to them, really listening to them, putting their needs ahead of your own at times. it means modeling the behavior you want them to do not just popping them in time out when they don't do what you want the way you want it.
as for the co-sleeping and ebf... who is to say what those families really felt like about that. that is all edited so it looks a certain way. i know the families ask her to come in and help but what we see and reality are 2 vastly different things.
when i read alphie kohn's stuff at first i always get defensive because what he says is almostly the exact opposite of what mainstream society is telling us. it is nothing most of us grew up with and no one ever taught us this. it is also something some (if not most) people come to after they have parented a different way for awhile. it is hard to do it, but it is worth it.
you can't zoom down what kohn teaches in to a 30 minute show. he could work with one family for a whole season it takes time and an investment in your children to raise them well. peiople just don't want to take that time. they want quick easy fixes.

h


~Marie: Mom to DS(17), DS(16), DD(14), DD(10), DD(8) & someone new on the way.
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#175 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 02:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
i haven't read everything yet but i felt compeled to post (maybe this has already been touched on)

i think (in general) most people like SN because it makes them feel superior... ie at least my family isn't that messed up. AND because the techniques she uses are the easy way out. it takes alot of work to do unconditional parenting. it takes being present for your children and throwing out all your old thoughts on children. it takes listening to them, really listening to them, putting their needs ahead of your own at times. it means modeling the behavior you want them to do not just popping them in time out when they don't do what you want the way you want it.
as for the co-sleeping and ebf... who is to say what those families really felt like about that. that is all edited so it looks a certain way. i know the families ask her to come in and help but what we see and reality are 2 vastly different things.
when i read alphie kohn's stuff at first i always get defensive because what he says is almostly the exact opposite of what mainstream society is telling us. it is nothing most of us grew up with and no one ever taught us this. it is also something some (if not most) people come to after they have parented a different way for awhile. it is hard to do it, but it is worth it.
you can't zoom down what kohn teaches in to a 30 minute show. he could work with one family for a whole season it takes time and an investment in your children to raise them well. peiople just don't want to take that time. they want quick easy fixes.

h
Yeah, ok.

I disagree with the "oh, we watch supernanny because we like to feel superior" line. If you (general) dislike Supernanny, why watch?

Also, I am irritated by the implication that because I use TO with my son, I am "not invested" in being a parent. Different strokes...as they say.
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#176 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 02:41 AM
 
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Seriously.

We're raising children, not training dogs...
Funny, I haven't consulted the 'reputable' dog trainers in the area, yet...
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#177 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 11:54 AM
 
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i don't watch supernanny at all... that being said why else would you watch some family falling apart unless you felt like "Man at least I am not that bad".

and yes I do believe that if you use time out you are not trying to get to the root. why is LO smacking the heck out of older child? don't care at this time ... in time out you go. It takes a long hot time in the kitchen to get the beans just right... you have to put in the time LOADS of it, again and again. i think over all as a society we don't want to take that time. it is a new concept i think to really invest yourself in your kids. i am sure most of us here were not listened to very much, were hit or yelled at or sat in a corner or all three. and lots of people say "I turned out OK." But that time out is a withdrawl of love whether you mean it to be or not. I believe that we are telling our kids when we put them in TO that "I don't want to be with you..." and they see/hear "I don't love you" why else would they cry? Try and get out again and again?
and why on earth does everyone need so many studies to tell them that what they are doing is damaging if you "know" inside that you feel bad doing it?

h

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#178 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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what i am getting from I-AM-Mother's post is that in the absence of a collective wisdom passed down from generations of mothers/parents, it's all too easy to fall into 'particular schools of parenting', if you will.
I think that many people have a perception that that was how things were in "the good old days" before modern society ruined everything. I see this a lot as a student of history; people have gotten a certain idea about how everything was "back then", ie any time prior to the twentieth century (women always had long hair and long skirts and were oppressed, men were hardworking, children were obedient, etc). The thing is, the more you look at history the more you realise that there's nothing new under the sun. Everything cycles, the pendulum is always swinging, it's all been done before. Even parenting fads have been coming and going for centuries.
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#179 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 12:03 PM
 
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i don't watch supernanny at all... that being said why else would you watch some family falling apart unless you felt like "Man at least I am not that bad".
I watch it because I'm interested in discipline and way our culture treats children and I'm fascinated by the glimpse into other people's lives/homes/outlooks. I also like to be able to have a concrete understanding of what exactly the "mainstream" culture is advocating/practicing so when I discuss it or contemplate it I have specific examples to draw from.....not just some vague notion that "children aren't heard," or "treated respectfully."

Sometimes it gets into my head, though, and reaffirms those, "They just need to listen," tapes and that messes up what I'm trying to do with my family. So I take breaks from watching it.
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#180 of 529 Old 09-02-2008, 12:25 PM
 
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I agree that Kohn's way doesn't make for "good television." (Did I post this already? LOL) But SuperNanny's way isn't "good parenting," imo.
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