Very verbal 2 yr old w/non-verbal peers? - Mothering Forums
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 07-16-2008, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
sarbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I feel like a trespasser in this forum, as I have NO idea if my ds is gifted at this point, but he is very verbal compared to his peers. He speaks in full sentences, uses comparisons and analogies, etc. His memory is unbelievable and he only has to hear something once to then turn around and use it in context.

Anyway, he is starting preschool next week (a play-based co-op) and we have been to visit a few times. He will be in the 1's & 2's room, so some children will be older than him, some younger (he is just turning 2 next month). I have noticed when we've been there that most of his peers are not nearly as verbal, or not verbal at all. I watched him attempt to talk to several of them, and seem sad and confused that they were not engaging him in conversation. I guess my concern is that he won't be able to communicate with his peers, and therefore have a hard time socially, or become frustrated. Am I doing him a disservice by not placing him in a more multi-age program, where he can be with older children as well? He is also just about potty-trained, and almost none of the other children in the class are. He asked when we were there today to have his diaper changed- I think he wanted to be like the rest of the kids. Should I be worried that he may regress in this new environment??
Sorry for the ramble, I'm just a little lost here

sarah, mama to e & j 8/08, and big brother 8/06
sarbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 01:39 AM
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can totally remember being where your son is, and being utterly flabbergasted when I was expected to interact with children with whom I couldn't communicate. I never had to go to daycare, but that problem-- being unable to communicate with my "peers"-- has persisted into adulthood. Just yesterday I was irritated by it, and I am much better today at modifying my speech based on the person/group i'm addressing. I'm not sure that I can offer any advice... but I can certainly comiserate. I was really really depressed about this a lot when I was a child.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 01:44 AM
 
forestrymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It never seemed to bother my verbally gifted dd. She knows every word I can think of and speaks in complex sentences, knows some spelling, counts, adds, etc. She was pled at 15 months and has never regressed. She interacts with younger and older kids equally. I was/am verbally gifted as well, and its never bothered me. I am a social person, though, in general, so maybe that makes a difference?
forestrymom is offline  
 
#4 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 01:59 AM
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by forestrymom View Post
I was/am verbally gifted as well, and its never bothered me. I am a social person, though, in general, so maybe that makes a difference?
Possibly. My son doesn't have too much trouble either... but I have discovered that I'm remarkably social when I'm with people who either understand me or don't become snarky when I lapse into my natural speech/thought patterns.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 02:10 AM
 
ChristaN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why is he starting preschool; do you need daycare at this point?

Although I understand the perspective of the poster who likes to be around people whose abilities differ and I do have a child for whom intellectual ability is not a major issue in friend selection, I would have some concerns about the situation you describe. My dds did play with plenty of "average" kids in their younger years and still do. However, they are not stuck all day in a room (or facility) with people with whom they cannot communicate. If there are not a lot of adults to interact with, I think that could be depressing for your child and lead him to wonder what is wrong with himself.

Initially, I imagine that he would think that there was something odd about the other kids, but over time I worry that it would turn the other direction. Do you have any other options for preschool programs that would have a wider age span? If it is not for daycare purposes and he will just be going for a few hrs/week, it might not be a big deal. I see it being more difficult if it is an all day or everyday thing and if this becomes his only social group.
ChristaN is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 04:17 AM
 
deminc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A topic very close to my heart. I struggled wiht the same issues, and my son is a late talker and only started preschool at 3+! I imagine it would be that much harder for your child. Though going by other posters, personality would play a part as well.

My older one is very much into order, alignment, property rights and socially it was an issue as he couldn't "reason" with other children and didn't understand why that was so. We had terrible after-school tantrums for a while. He also loves to talk about his day, his kooky ideas, and the other kids were totally into that, kwim? there was some speech regression as he tried to fit in, but even with the regression, he's still ahead of the peers, but let's just say I was tearing my hair out for a while. If I can afford it, I would much prefer to have him in a multi-age settings.

On the other hand, his school provide many opportunities for outdoor play - and when children are running and climbing, they really don't need to talk! In additon he learns to help the less able children, e.g. he would help the slightly autistic child in class with his buttons and tags. His teachers assigned him duties and send him on errands to other teachers, so there is some accomodation I guess. When he needs to decompress, his teacher will allow him to wander off and be by himself, and his school has lovely huge classrooms wiht nooks and crannies to disappear into. Things also became much better as the other children's speech picked up, and he found a best friend - someone who defended him against the class bully. All you need is a fist and a fierce growl for that, hahaha.

So I guess you just have to monitor the situation closely for a while. If need be, speak to the teacher to see if they can accomodate in some ways. The adults would have noticed the disparity by now. But really, personally I do think that multi-age would be the best if it's a viable option.
deminc is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
sarbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
Why is he starting preschool; do you need daycare at this point?

Although I understand the perspective of the poster who likes to be around people whose abilities differ and I do have a child for whom intellectual ability is not a major issue in friend selection, I would have some concerns about the situation you describe. My dds did play with plenty of "average" kids in their younger years and still do. However, they are not stuck all day in a room (or facility) with people with whom they cannot communicate. If there are not a lot of adults to interact with, I think that could be depressing for your child and lead him to wonder what is wrong with himself.

Initially, I imagine that he would think that there was something odd about the other kids, but over time I worry that it would turn the other direction. Do you have any other options for preschool programs that would have a wider age span? If it is not for daycare purposes and he will just be going for a few hrs/week, it might not be a big deal. I see it being more difficult if it is an all day or everyday thing and if this becomes his only social group.
He is going 3 mornings per week (9-12). We decided that with the twins coming, it would be best for him to have that time each week to just play and be stimulated in an alternative environment- though now I'm wondering how much stimulus he will really be getting.

I am going to talk to his teacher about providing him with opportunities to communicate frequently with her throughout the day, at the very least. Another option is to request that he be moved up into the 3's class if it becomes clear that he is not thriving with the younger children. I hate to be that mom that just comes in after the 1st week and says "My child is too advanced for this class"- I wonder how often they hear that
But at the same time, I know that I need to be an advocate for him and make sure that his best interest is being served.

sarah, mama to e & j 8/08, and big brother 8/06
sarbear is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 11:35 AM
 
tangent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LOL, sounds like a cutie.

My dd was the same way at childcare. In fact at the end of her first day in the 'toddler room' when she was 2-ish, and I was buckling her in her car seat, she said "The babies will miss me". She was the only kid speaking in the room and she was carrying on conversations with the teachers. They moved her up early to the preschool room and she was still the most advanced verbally in that room (with 3-5 yr olds). I think you just have to find the best fit with what's in front of you. Talk to the teachers, they'll probably know what to do with him and keep him from regressing.
tangent is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 12:12 PM
 
mom2ponygirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My daughter spent a lot of time at that age hanging out with the teachers because the kids wouldn't really communicate with her. Some of the teachers seemed to think that was an issue, but as the other kids became more verbal and more into imaginative play my daughter engaged with them more. We are in a situation now to seek out a variety of ages for peers and that has worked much better.
mom2ponygirl is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 12:18 PM
 
teachma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: My new house!
Posts: 4,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarbear View Post
Should I be worried that he may regress in this new environment??
At the preschool age, I wouldn't suggest you worry too much about it, although it certainly may happen. One of my children-- the more socially aware of the two-- definitely "adapts" to her peers by speaking more like the way they do and even writing her name backwards at times. However, she "regresses," if you want to call it that, only when with her same-age peers. The skills she possesses are still hers, and when playing with older children and family members, she is quite comfortable revealing her true self.
teachma is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 12:20 PM
 
teachma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: My new house!
Posts: 4,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl View Post
My daughter spent a lot of time at that age hanging out with the teachers because the kids wouldn't really communicate with her.
This was totally my son, straight through preschool. Even now, at his daycamp, his friends are the counselors. They offer more in the way of conversation, and they respond better to him because they get his jokes.
teachma is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 12:34 PM
 
LauraLoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: By the light of the silvery moon
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My dd is verbally advanced and I found that she adjusted her speech while at preschool, so to speak. At home she would say, "DS is stingy. He is hoarding his toys." At school she would say, "Boy 'x' never shares." She also adopted a baby-ish sounding voice at school, which was closer to what the other kids were sounding like. She seems to adapt to the situation, and I don't believe it will cause any long term damage since she is flexible to assess what works and doesn't work. I'd be happier if she were surrounded by more verbally advanced kids, but she isn't distressed by it.

Laura - Mom to ds (10) and dd (7) "Time stands still best in moments that look suspiciously like ordinary life." Brian Andreas.

LauraLoo is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Aufilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
DD is also pretty verbally advanced. She's been getting physical therapy through EI for awhile and has been enrolled in the EI preschool program 2 days a week for a few months. Even though she's exceptionally verbal most of the time, at preschool she tends to spend a lot of time observing what's going on rather than trying to converse with the other kids. She seems to gravitate toward the teachers in the free-play room, and play more with the other kids when they play on the outdoor toys. She has a really good time in any case.

The one thing I might consider would be whether or not it is most beneficial for your son to be in a classroom segregated by age. I've been specifically seeking a preschool for DD to go to after she ages out of EI which has mixed-ages classrooms, because her social skills are just at or maybe below her age level, but her speech, reading, and "math" skills are quite a bit above.

Erin, mom to DD (1/06) and DS (10/09)
Aufilia is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 04:23 PM
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangent View Post
My dd was the same way at childcare. In fact at the end of her first day in the 'toddler room' when she was 2-ish, and I was buckling her in her car seat, she said "The babies will miss me".
I remember my eldest niece saying the same thing when they asked her how she felt about moving up to the 3-year-olds room when she was just past two.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 04:46 PM
 
chaimom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My twins were extremely verbal and advanced in other ways when they started preschool the same hours your son will go. I asked whether they could be moved up, (I was THAT mom!) and the school said no. But I think it was OK anyway. They learn at their own pace regardless. This was a play-based school, so they did a lot of painting and manipulatives and nature walks and such, so it wasn't like they were being stiffled. Every day the teachers would comment about some amazing (by age) thing the boys had done.

But at that age, kids really do have a WIDE variety of abilities. Some kids develop quickly (mine) and others seem like babies until they're 4. Fortunately, there were two other very advanced kids in the class, so it worked out fine. I would give it a chance and see how he likes it.
chaimom is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 05:00 PM
 
Kayaking Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Consider that at this age, most kids DON'T talk much when playing "with" peers anyway--early social play is parallel, then starts with some non-verbal trading and exchanging of toys. Also (speaking from my experience with my DS, and not knowing yours), your child may be very on par with his same-age peers in other areas (social/emotional, motor, cognitive, etc) and he may be too challenged by trying to do the activities in the older kids' room...Can you try the younger room for a while and see how it works out?

As to the PL regression--I think there's always the possibility that kids may regress with change--whether it's starting preschool or the anticipated family change.
Kayaking Mama is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 05:00 PM
 
Novella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rural Canada - peaceful prairie
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangent View Post
Talk to the teachers, they'll probably know what to do with him and keep him from regressing.
Sorry to be the cynical one, but you can't always count on this.

Over the years, I have seen several elementary school teachers in several schools hold kids back. This happened to me, my siblings, the girls who babysit for us, a few other acquaintances, and to the daughter of our good friends (both teachers themselves and he was even the vice-principal of that elementary school!) I doubt it is different in preschools.

IF the teacher of care provider even notices, there's all kinds of reasons to avoid making a change:
  • easier to do nothing
  • punitive - seems to sometimes be an undercurrent of "putting the parent in his/her place" for thinking their child is "special"
  • desire to have the advanced child model behavior for the other kids (have heard of teachers giving this excuse as a valid reason)
  • concerns of "if we do XX now, what will we do next year?" (have also heard of teachers giving this excuse as a valid reason)

I would be concerned about the environment that you describe, given what you've told us about your child's development. If any regression were to take place, I'm sure it would be mild and temporary. But I consider more weightily that it would be a) a waste of time for your child and b) a frustrating experience with long term memories of not fitting in. There's a balance to be struck in having a kid exposed to others are who "aren't exactly the same" but this sounds like the others area a fairly homogenous group that aren't even close. What misery!

Six kids, sixth sense, six degrees of separation. . . from sanity!
Not sure that I'm crunchy, but definitely a "tough chew".
Novella is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 07-17-2008, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
sarbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayaking Mama View Post
Consider that at this age, most kids DON'T talk much when playing "with" peers anyway--early social play is parallel, then starts with some non-verbal trading and exchanging of toys. Also (speaking from my experience with my DS, and not knowing yours), your child may be very on par with his same-age peers in other areas (social/emotional, motor, cognitive, etc) and he may be too challenged by trying to do the activities in the older kids' room...Can you try the younger room for a while and see how it works out?
I have always been taught (and observed myself) the "parallel play" theory as well, which is why I found it a little strange that ds seems SO intent on talking with his peers! But... I do have a feeling that, as you said, he is on the same or similar level with his peers in many other ways. I do worry also that he could be too challenged to do some of the things the older children are doing- I think you are right about trying the room for a while and seeing how he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novella View Post

Over the years, I have seen several elementary school teachers in several schools hold kids back. This happened to me, my siblings, the girls who babysit for us, a few other acquaintances, and to the daughter of our good friends (both teachers themselves and he was even the vice-principal of that elementary school!) I doubt it is different in preschools.


I would be concerned about the environment that you describe, given what you've told us about your child's development. If any regression were to take place, I'm sure it would be mild and temporary. But I consider more weightily that it would be a) a waste of time for your child and b) a frustrating experience with long term memories of not fitting in. There's a balance to be struck in having a kid exposed to others are who "aren't exactly the same" but this sounds like the others area a fairly homogenous group that aren't even close. What misery!
If I found that they were unwilling in this preschool to consider his cognitive level, and strictly go by his chronological age in all decision making, I would withdraw him immediately. I have already spoken with the director briefly about my concerns, and she says that if they feel the three year old room is more appropriate, they will move him there.

I understand what you're saying about it potentially being a "waste of time" for him- but given our situation, I think he needs some time away from home each week. I will have my hands full with newborn twins and won't be able to engage and entertain him as I have for the past two years

sarah, mama to e & j 8/08, and big brother 8/06
sarbear is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 07-18-2008, 01:35 AM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I watched him attempt to talk to several of them, and seem sad and confused that they were not engaging him in conversation.
That's normal for this age. They will talk at each other, but don't generally respond to other kids their age. It's highly amusing to watch, really! Child A speaks to Child B, who ignores them. Child A is crestfallen and returns to what they were doing. 30 seconds later Child B directs a remark to Child A, who ignores them. Child B is crestfallen. Rinse, repeat.

If you think about it, a very verbally sophisticated child isn't going to seem intimidating or strange to a 2 year old because all the adult around them already speak that way to them.
wannabe is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 07-19-2008, 02:15 PM
 
lara1828's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OP, I'm glad to hear you've talked to the director and she's willing to be flexible for your son.

I wanted to comment that the "parallel play" idea is often presented as a universal truth, but it most certainly was NOT true for either of my children (now 2 and 4) and may not be either for your child. Trust your "insider" knowledge as mama on this one.

I made the mistake of not having enough for my ds1 to do when ds2 was a baby, so I appreciate your wanting to have something lined up for your son when the babies come. On the other hand, I would have been extremely hesitant to put him in a situation like the one you describe unless I knew the teacher was willing to spend a lot of time engaging directly with him. Talk, TALK, TALKING is very important to him and only gets more so as he gets older.


So in a more direct answer to your question, I think the wait and see approach recommmended by pp is OK, but, in your situation, I would be trying to find a better fit, probably in a multi-age environment.

Good luck!

Lara
lara1828 is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 07-19-2008, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
sarbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lara1828 View Post

So in a more direct answer to your question, I think the wait and see approach recommmended by pp is OK, but, in your situation, I would be trying to find a better fit, probably in a multi-age environment.
Thanks all for the input! About the multi-age thing, does anyone have a suggestion on where/how to look for a multi-age program that includes 2 year olds and older children? The Montessori schools I have looked into group the toddlers together (like 18 months to 2 yrs), then go into the traditional 3-6 yr old program. I haven't come across any schools so far that group children in a less traditional way- but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places? My best option at this point seems to wait a few weeks with him in the 2's, then if it seems appropriate, request that he be moved up with the 3 yr olds...

sarah, mama to e & j 8/08, and big brother 8/06
sarbear is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 07-20-2008, 07:17 AM
 
pigpokey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 3,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You could. Also another option that might not be more expensive than preschool is to put him with another SAHM who wants to watch another child along with her children during those hours.
pigpokey is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 07-20-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Minxie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarbear View Post
Thanks all for the input! About the multi-age thing, does anyone have a suggestion on where/how to look for a multi-age program that includes 2 year olds and older children? The Montessori schools I have looked into group the toddlers together (like 18 months to 2 yrs), then go into the traditional 3-6 yr old program. I haven't come across any schools so far that group children in a less traditional way- but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places? My best option at this point seems to wait a few weeks with him in the 2's, then if it seems appropriate, request that he be moved up with the 3 yr olds...
I suggest talking with the director at the particular school you have in mind. My son also is very verbal; they asked us to have him spend the morning so they could evaluate him. He spent the first part of the morning in the Toddler room and the latter portion in the Primary room.

They had no space in the Primary room so they started him in the Toddler room for the month of July but when the second Primary class starts in August, he'll move over there. He could have just started in the P class in August but I wanted him out of the daycare and this made a good compromise; also I think it will be an easier transition for him coming from a daycare class of 2 yr olds. He will be exactly 2.5 yrs old when he starts in the P class.

"That dancing ball's so happy." :
Minxie is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 07-21-2008, 12:04 AM
 
loraxc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the Truffula Trees
Posts: 4,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This actually was an issue for us. DD was in full-time daycare, though, so I think that contributed. She's been much happier since entering the preschool class. It does help to have sympathetic teachers who will talk with the child.

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

loraxc is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,467

9 members and 1,458 guests
bimaster , Daria91 , Deborah , Dovenoir , Hyacinthe , lauritagoddess , SophStressed , Stewace , victory13
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.