Student Who Refused to Lie About Vaccines and was Kicked out of Nursing School Fights - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Student Who Refused to Lie About Vaccines and was Kicked out of Nursing School Fights

I posted this story in another thread, but as more information has come out, I thought it could use its own. It appears that nursing students are taught to blatantly ignore informed consent and lie and coerce patients into getting vaccines they might not want.

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In 2013, nursing student Nichole Bruff was dismissed from Baker College in Michigan for allegedly asking questions about the way her instructors were teaching nursing students how to coerce parents into receiving vaccines for their children, even if the children or parents did not want them. Nichole wondered why a patient’s right to choose or refuse a medical procedure was not being followed in administering vaccines. To her, this seemed to violate medical ethical issues she had been taught in nursing school, so she wanted clarification on why vaccines were different when it came to patient rights and ethics.
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/studen...-with-lawsuit/

This is what she says she was told to do by the pediatric instructor:

Quote:
Next, the pediatrics instructor Nichole refers to who allegedly told all the nursing students that all children admitted to the hospital had to be brought up-to-date on their vaccines prior to being discharged, is named in the complaint as Alysia Osoff, also known then as Alysia Gilreath. The discussions of immunizations and vaccinations were initially raised by Osoff as part of the debriefing the students went through after a pediatric clinical experience.

As Nichole noted above, she questioned how sick children could be forced to receive vaccines when vaccine inserts themselves contraindicated the administration of vaccines to children while they are sick. According to the complaints, Osoff told the nursing students that they were to do whatever possible to convince visitors to the pediatrics department at Sparrow Hospital to consent to immunizations and vaccinations, even over the objections of the patient (which could also include the patient’s visitors).

The complaint also claims that Osoff stated and instructed that the students tell patients and their partners that failure to have immunization/vaccination for pertussis could result in the patient having to pay for their entire stay at the hospital, that the state would deny payment coverage, and that those on Medicare (traditionally underprivileged members of the community) would be personally liable to pay for all damages suffered by those in the hospital.
(Bolding mine)
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#2 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 10:48 AM
 
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Just last night I was chatting with one of my professors (BSN) to try to sort out if I wanted to do dental hygiene or nursing. She is anti-vax and I was asking her if she thought I'd be able to find a job by the time finished school. She was iffy.

Dental hygiene it is...for now.
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#3 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 10:59 AM
 
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I doubt if she can prepare a successful case based on hearsay.
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#4 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ss834 View Post
I doubt if she can prepare a successful case based on hearsay.
So you are fine with nurses being taught to lie and coerce people into getting vaccines?

Some people just don't know what's good for them, do they? So a few lies here and there is nothing if it gets a needle into them. Heaven forbid if a parent lies at the ER and says their non-vaccinated kid is up to date when they come in for a broken arm - that's different.

Whether she wins or not, and I hope she does, good for her for going public.

The depositions should be interesting, I am sure her attorney will depose her fellow students and they will have to answer under oath.
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Last edited by Mirzam; 04-10-2015 at 11:16 AM.
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#5 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 11:32 AM
 
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No, I am not fine with coercion. That doesn't mean I have to believe every story that gets peddled to me, either. In the girl's original rant it is clear that she is arguing from her own viewpoint, not with the health of the patients in mind. Some of her logic is reasonable, though factually incorrect (where does she get the info that pertussis vax doesn't produce antibodies for 4-6 weeks?) -- but she says in the rant that she acknowledges that she isn't supposed to argue for her own "personal propaganda" yet she is assuming that every kid who is not up to date is for the same reasons that she chooses not to keep her kids up to date-- which is personal choice. She is arguing from "personal propaganda" to use her own words.

The nurse instructor is relating advice for gaining compliance with evidence-based care.

I'm not inclined to believe that she argued with the nursing directors from an unbiased position, based on her own explanation, and so I'm not inclined to believe she was mistreated by the school.

If the nursing professor had stated that she sweetly tries to coax frail, elderly patients who refuse to eat into taking a bite of food (for their own health!) then I would not consider that problematic. If she encourages the students in techniques to have these elderly patients eat food (for their own health!) then I also would not consider that problematic. If she tells students to let the patients know that there are consequences to refusing food, I would not consider that problematic.

If she lied about the medicaid benefits, that is a problem, but there needs to be some evidence other than hearsay.

If she held patients down in front of the students and forcibly fed (or injected) them or made the students participate in forced feeding (or injection) without some kind of reasonable court order, that would be assault.

Last edited by ss834; 04-10-2015 at 11:36 AM.
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#6 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The main issue is that nursing students are being taught that they should lie and coerce to get vaccine compliance, you don't need to go as far as holding them down, without informed consent, and lying to a patient to get compliance is not part of informed consent, is in contravention of the Nuremberg code; so-called evidence-based (sic) or not. Whether this woman wins or loses this case, lying and coercion is not moral or ethical. It's medical bullying.

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#7 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
The main issue is that nursing students are being taught that they should lie and coerce to get vaccine compliance, you don't need to go as far as holding them down, without informed consent, and lying to a patient to get compliance is not part of informed consent, is in contravention of the Nuremberg code; so-called evidence-based (sic) or not. Whether this woman wins or loses this case, lying and coercion is not moral or ethical. It's medical bullying.
If it happened, she should have no problem getting witnesses since these were instructions to an entire clinical group.
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#8 of 16 Old 04-10-2015, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ss834 View Post
If it happened, she should have no problem getting witnesses since these were instructions to an entire clinical group.
Exactly, that is why I said depositions should be interesting. Witnesses are subpoenaed so they will have no choice but to answer questions during discovery, under oath.
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#9 of 16 Old 04-11-2015, 08:45 AM
 
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After reading the original allegations, I, too, am in suspense over the depositions. http://network.sophiamedia.com/healt...Complaint-.pdf

As stated upthread, it would be really hard to make up something like this with so many witnesses present.

That the plaintiff was under a "behavioral contract" for "offending" a homophobic student is preposterous.
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#10 of 16 Old 04-12-2015, 11:24 AM
 
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#11 of 16 Old 04-12-2015, 07:18 PM
 
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Another article doesn't paint her in such a great light.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...nursing_s.html

"...the school claimed that Rolfe was overly aggressive and disruptive and it was for that reason she was removed from the program.

A dismissal contract the school drafted, which was filed with the lawsuit as evidence, claimed that Rolfe continuously argued with the instructor about a personal belief regarding immunizations and that several attempts were made to move forward with training but Rolfe kept bringing up the same argument.

The contract also cited "persistent, aggressive, oppositional behavior" by Rolfe as a reason for dismissal.

Her dismissal as a student came after Rolfe was placed on a June 10, 2013, behavior contract with the school due to an interaction with another student regarding a conversation about homosexuality.

The student complained to the nursing program's directors, claiming that she felt harassed by Rolfe for her stance on homosexuality, according to the lawsuit.

The behavior contract, which is also included in the lawsuit as evidence, claims that Rolfe continued to make inappropriate, harassing comments toward another student."

So she had been put on a "behavior contract" for harassing another student a good 4 months before she was dismissed from the program...

Hmmm.....

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#12 of 16 Old 04-12-2015, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Her dismissal as a student came after Rolfe was placed on a June 10, 2013, behavior contract with the school due to an interaction with another student regarding a conversation about homosexuality.

The student complained to the nursing program's directors, claiming that she felt harassed by Rolfe for her stance on homosexuality, according to the lawsuit.



Hmmm.....
If she harassed another student, that is not good.

When I read your post I assumed (my bad) she was in trouble for making homophobic remarks. That does not appear to be the case. The nurse said, and the school did not dispute, that:

"Rolfe claimed that she told the student that it wasn't the place of potential nurses to judge others and that she disagreed with the other student's view that homosexuality is a learned behavior."

In any event, I do wonder if all of this could have been handled a bit better. Kicking a student out of school seems extreme. It will be interesting to read the depositions of the other students.
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#13 of 16 Old 04-12-2015, 08:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Another article doesn't paint her in such a great light.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...nursing_s.html

"...the school claimed that Rolfe was overly aggressive and disruptive and it was for that reason she was removed from the program.

A dismissal contract the school drafted, which was filed with the lawsuit as evidence, claimed that Rolfe continuously argued with the instructor about a personal belief regarding immunizations and that several attempts were made to move forward with training but Rolfe kept bringing up the same argument.

The contract also cited "persistent, aggressive, oppositional behavior" by Rolfe as a reason for dismissal.

Her dismissal as a student came after Rolfe was placed on a June 10, 2013, behavior contract with the school due to an interaction with another student regarding a conversation about homosexuality.

The student complained to the nursing program's directors, claiming that she felt harassed by Rolfe for her stance on homosexuality, according to the lawsuit.

The behavior contract, which is also included in the lawsuit as evidence, claims that Rolfe continued to make inappropriate, harassing comments toward another student."

So she had been put on a "behavior contract" for harassing another student a good 4 months before she was dismissed from the program...

Hmmm.....
You didn't read the original court docs. http://network.sophiamedia.com/healt...Complaint-.pdf

Another student eavesdropping on her conversation felt "harassed" by Rolfe's opposition to homophobia.

Here is what the department head considers "persistent, aggressive, oppositional behavior." Scroll down to page 7, when Rolfe makes a simple request, on behalf of her study group, for a professor to rescind an assignment.

The professor responds with an over-reactive and threatening statement about Rolfe's "unprofessional tone."

Students should be booted from academic programs for things like lying, cheating, stealing, and flunking out, not challenging their professors' sacred-cow views. Where this professor encouraged future health care professionals to lie through their teeth in order to win compliance, she deserved to be challenged openly and publicly.

Remember whenever possible to access primary sources instead of relying on media spin. I wouldn't expect objective or even rational reporting on anything related to vaccines from a news source whose stated campaign is to snatch informed consent rights away from Michigan families.

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Last edited by Turquesa; 04-12-2015 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Grammar
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#14 of 16 Old 06-17-2017, 02:17 PM
 
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It looks like this case is still progressing. http://olcplc.com/public/media?1457439762
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#15 of 16 Old 06-18-2017, 06:55 AM
 
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After pre-trial evidence exchanges, Baker College requested the Court to dismiss the case citing that Rolfe's evidence, being audio-recordings of meetings with administrators while at Baker College, violated Baker College's audio-recording policies. Baker College also sought to limit the amount of damages claimed by Rolfe.
Quote:
Also at the hearing, Baker College additionally sought to preclude the release of certain emails between the nursing department's director and an instructor about the case, and to prevent the last deposition of a key witness, another former nursing student. The judge denied both of Baker's requests.
How incredibly odd! Why would the college be fighting the release of recordings and emails and prevent depositions that could vindicate them?
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#16 of 16 Old 06-18-2017, 05:22 PM
 
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How incredibly odd! Why would the college be fighting the release of recordings and emails and prevent depositions that could vindicate them?
The same reason Merck is claiming that they can't find the documents in the mumps/MMR whistleblower case.
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