Why Do We Trust Carseats? - Mothering Forums
 435Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Why Do We Trust Carseats?

Carseats get brought up a lot in the vaccine debate. "Parents don't have a choice with carseats, so why should they have a choice with vaccines?"

It's a terrible analogy on many fronts, the biggest hole being that carseat manufacturers are liable for product defects.

But it got me wondering . . . why is there such vociferous opposition to vaccine mandates and almost no opposition to carseat mandates? What makes carseats so much more trustworthy than vaccines? This is sort of a stretch, but could policy-makers look to carseats for ideas on how to gain public trust in the vaccine schedule?

If there were NO carseat mandates, I would still buckle my kids into age-appropriate carseats. Also, I don't see nasty online debates about carseat risks v. benefits, and there are no anti-carseat or anti-mandatory-carseat organizations.

If there were no vaccine mandates, I'd still get my kids some vaccines. Plenty of countries with no compulsory vaccination laws maintain exceedingly high vaccination rates. (Play around on the UNICEF site with first world, non-mandate countries like Britain, Switzerland, Germany and Japan).

So why is there so much trust in carseat mandates and so little trust in vaccine mandates?

One likely answer I already provided above; carseat manufacturers are directly liable for defects and therefore more accountable for their products.

Any other possibilities?
applejuice and SilverMoon010 like this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 09:32 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Carseats get brought up a lot in the vaccine debate. "Parents don't have a choice with carseats, so why should they have a choice with vaccines?"

It's a terrible analogy on many fronts, the biggest hole being that carseat manufacturers are liable for product defects.

But it got me wondering . . . why is there such vociferous opposition to vaccine mandates and almost no opposition to carseat mandates? What makes carseats so much more trustworthy than vaccines? This is sort of a stretch, but could policy-makers look to carseats for ideas on how to gain public trust in the vaccine schedule?

If there were NO carseat mandates, I would still buckle my kids into age-appropriate carseats. Also, I don't see nasty online debates about carseat risks v. benefits, and there are no anti-carseat or anti-mandatory-carseat organizations.

If there were no vaccine mandates, I'd still get my kids some vaccines. Plenty of countries with no compulsory vaccination laws maintain exceedingly high vaccination rates. (Play around on the UNICEF site with first world, non-mandate countries like Britain, Switzerland, Germany and Japan).

So why is there so much trust in carseat mandates and so little trust in vaccine mandates?

One likely answer I already provided above; carseat manufacturers are directly liable for defects and therefore more accountable for their products.

Any other possibilities?
Interesting topic. I don't think it's as much about trusting car seat mandates as it is about fearing injuries from car accidents. Most people have been in car accidents or know people who have been in car accidents. It's a real concern, not an abstract one. Because the risk of not doing it is large and palpable, addressing that risk dominates over possible downsides.

If, in the future, injuries from car accidents were largely eliminated through a combination of factors (including but not limited to car seats--maybe self-driving cars and/or new car designs), I bet car seat compliance would go way down.
applejuice and abelitz like this.

Last edited by Jessica765; 05-28-2015 at 09:36 AM.
Jessica765 is offline  
#3 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 09:32 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
Not every one owns a car.

You don't need to put your child in a car seat to take public transit.
applejuice and EMRguy like this.
samaxtics is offline  
 
#4 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 09:41 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
Not every one owns a car.

You don't need to put your child in a car seat to take public transit.
But for many, many people, especially in the U.S., public transit and walking are not options, and their children have to be transported by car. (Mine certainly does.) Where I live, not having a car is theoretically possible, I guess (if we both quit our jobs and moved to a different area, though anywhere we wouldn't need a car would either have public schools we find unacceptable or would be far more expensive than we could afford), but not practical, any more than homeschooling is a practical alternative for most people who want to avoid school vaccine mandates.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.

Last edited by Jessica765; 05-28-2015 at 09:52 AM.
Jessica765 is offline  
#5 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 11,576
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
There isn't a risk in using a car seat. Vaccines have a risk involved even if you are never exposed to the illness (the level of risk varies from vaccine to vaccine, and different people can weigh the benefit and risk differently). Car seats, on the other hand, don't have a risk associated with their use. The only way the analogy would work is if sometimes when kids were buckled into car seats, they ended up with injuries without being in a car accident.
abelitz, Anne Jividen and Nemi27 like this.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is offline  
#6 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 10:07 AM
 
littlebear3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 404
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
I think the physics speaks for itself. In regards to ejection during an accident,physics is more of a mathematical and highly predictable science. If you aren't buckled in, you will be ejected or tossed around and have a high likely hood of dying. Its measurable time and time again. Plug in your variables and you can figure out a lot about the force exerted on a body during a car accident. In most cases,you don't survive/recover from an ejection like you can from a vpd.

Vaccines being part of the medical sciences aren't nearly as predictable. This is evident in the long lists of side effects. Anything dealing with medical treatment is vastly more complex and outcomes of vaccination can be impacted by genetics and environmental factors.

If carseats started having adverse reactions to a child's health,there would be outcry for change.

It's like saying,"Well, wearing clothes is mandatory in most public places,therefore,you should vaccinate." In most scenarios, wearing clothes isn't a medical procedure,doesn't carry inherent risks,and is not contradictory to a person's convictions. It's comparing apples to oranges and is one of the poorest logical argument I've seen. If the "anti vax" people made a similar argument, they'd be painted idiots. Without getting on my logic 101 soapbox, that's the gest of my opinion.
littlebear3 is offline  
#7 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 10:12 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,628
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1644 Post(s)
Apologies @Jessica765 .

I should have quoted the part of Turquesa's post I was responding to; it was the only thing up when I started to write my post. Perhaps this will make better sense:

Quote:
...why is there such vociferous opposition to vaccine mandates and almost no opposition to carseat mandates
Even if car seats are mandated they really only affect car owners that are parents or parents of children that are traveling by private car (in some places taxis are exempt). So it doesn't affect everyone.

Now if it was mandated that all children had to have their own carseat from birth (and periodically updated with a new model) whether their parents owned a car or not, we could expect an outcry against that mandate.

However I do like that you brought up the practicality/difficulties of taking public transit. So maybe in that way, a mandatory public transportation law would be analogous to mandatory vaccination for public schooling law.
samaxtics is offline  
#8 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
There isn't a risk in using a car seat. Vaccines have a risk involved even if you are never exposed to the illness (the level of risk varies from vaccine to vaccine, and different people can weigh the benefit and risk differently). Car seats, on the other hand, don't have a risk associated with their use. The only way the analogy would work is if sometimes when kids were buckled into car seats, they ended up with injuries without being in a car accident.
There's a theoretical risk that somebody could get in an accident, and the carseat inhibits getting the child out quickly, maybe because the car falls into a river.

I'm confident that these sorts of adverse events, however, would be much more readily acknowledged than vaccine-induced events.

But yes, I would agree that carseats and vaccines statistically have a much, much different risk-benefit ratio. As Jessica mentioned, people are rightfully afraid of car accidents. Last I checked, they're the number one killer of children in the U.S. That threat is much greater and much less abstract than scare tactics about catching Hep B in a kindergarten classroom or polio being a plane ride away.
applejuice and Nemi27 like this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#9 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 10:40 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Thanks for the clarification, samaxtics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post

However I do like that you brought up the practicality/difficulties of taking public transit. So maybe in that way, a mandatory public transportation law would be analogous to mandatory vaccination for public schooling law.
I think the analogy I was trying to make is more that a mandatory car seat for riding in cars law is analogous to a mandatory vaccination for public schooling law:

Some people say requiring vaccines for kids who go to school doesn't make vaccines mandatory for everyone, because you don't have to send your kids to school--you can homeschool (I am assuming here a law that does not cover homeschooled children.)

Some people could say that requiring car seats for kids who ride in cars doesn't make using car seats mandatory for everyone, because you don't have to have your kid ride in a car--you can take public transit or walk instead.

I'm saying that while both of those things are technically true, they are beside the point. Homeschooling isn't a realistic and practical option for many/most people, so school vaccine requirements effectively make vaccines mandatory for them. Public transit isn't a realistic and practical option for many/most people, so car seat requirements for kids riding in cars effectively make car seats mandatory for them.
Nemi27 likes this.
Jessica765 is offline  
#10 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 11:02 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,811
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
Lots of good points upthread.


I think people have a visceral reaction to being told what they can and cannot put in their bodies...for good reason. Car seats do not enter bodies

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.
kathymuggle is online now  
#11 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
There's no false reality being proposed that people who don't use car seats are putting other children at risk.
applejuice likes this.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#12 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 11:57 AM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 11,576
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
There's a theoretical risk that somebody could get in an accident, and the carseat inhibits getting the child out quickly, maybe because the car falls into a river.


You still have to be in a car accident for something to go wrong. The real problem is being in a car under water.


If you just put a child in a car seat, and not have a wreck, the car seat can't hurt the child. The process of putting a child is a car seat has zero risk.


Vaccines carry a risk whether or not you are ever exposed to the illness.
Turquesa and Anne Jividen like this.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is offline  
#13 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
You still have to be in a car accident for something to go wrong. The real problem is being in a car under water.
Agreed. Just like you first have to get measles in order to have the potential to spread it, experience high risk factors, die from it, etc. And just as putting a kid in a carseat doesn't guarantee disaster, sending an unvaccinated or partially vaccinated child to school doesn't guarantee disaster.

I'm just sick of this assumption that unvaccinated or partially vaccinated = infected.

I saw the worst political cartoon. A parent was sitting with a child in front of the school principal explaining that they were filing a vaccine exemption. The parent and child were both skeletons wearing black cloaks and holding scythes. Because without timely vaccine compliance to the U.S. schedule, everyone convulses and dies instantly.

Maybe that's another reason why carseats are a better sell than vaccines. The risk of car accidents is so real that nobody feels a need to over-sensationalize them to the point of losing credibility.
applejuice and Steph Anie like this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#14 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
You still have to be in a car accident for something to go wrong. The real problem is being in a car under water.


If you just put a child in a car seat, and not have a wreck, the car seat can't hurt the child. The process of putting a child is a car seat has zero risk.


Vaccines carry a risk whether or not you are ever exposed to the illness.
Car seats can cause injuries outside of the context of a car wreck, though (perhaps) not if they are used 100% as they are supposed to be used.

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/...ur-outside-car

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/car-seat...eeping-babies/

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-seats/252006/
(little substance to that link)
Jessica765 is offline  
#15 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 12:25 PM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
The only similarity between the car seat mandates and vaccine mandates is the risk of a defective or faulty product causing greater injury, and that similarity isn't even on the same playing field because car seat manufacturers are held accountable; vaccine manufacturers are not.

Aside from defective products, car seat protection is fairly black and white; vaccine protection is not. The individual not wearing a car seat is at much greater risk of getting injured in an accident than one who is wearing a car seat. That is obvious and is clearly acknowledged by the general public. As mentioned above, there is no risk of putting the child into a car seat. It is easily done and the child is held securely in place and the risk of injury is greatly reduced. Vaccines are quite the opposite. The risk is immediately present, and this risk is undergone to prevent a disease in which that individual may never be exposed to, and then there is the risk that the vaccine wasn't even effective in preventing the disease in the first place and then the risks of the disease on top of the additional risks endured previously if the vaccine failed. With each new vaccine, this risk is always present. Where are the risks of putting kids into car seats? There is no emotional toll in doing so, or worry, as there is with getting children their vaccines and stressing over a reaction. It's a thoughtless action, and becomes second nature. It's not a fair assessment to say those who are not vaccinated are at greater risk than those who are, because it's very possible that a child who isn't vaccinated can fare just as well against a disease as a vaccinated child; but a child not in a car seat will not fare as well as a child in one. Totally different.

I never understood the car-seat vs. vaccine analogy. There is absolutely no comparison.

Last edited by SilverMoon010; 05-28-2015 at 12:41 PM.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#16 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica765 View Post
Car seats can cause injuries outside of the context of a car wreck, though (perhaps) not if they are used 100% as they are supposed to be used.

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/...ur-outside-car

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/car-seat...eeping-babies/

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-seats/252006/
(little substance to that link)
These links deal with activities that aren't legally required, and legal requirements are what are at issue in this thread.

Carseats are only required for moving vehicles. No state statute requires parents to tote their kids around in carseats outside of cars. It's an option, for sure, but these articles demonstrate that it needs to be done carefully. I'm a baby-wearer myself, but I like that there's more public education about out-of-car carseat safety.
applejuice likes this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#17 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 12:42 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever in the Islets of Langerhans
Posts: 24,395
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Do not forget the fact that driving is considered a privilege, not a right. A driver's license can be revoked by the state and has to be renewed periodically.

And a person who does not have a car can have a driver's license; a person who owns a car does not necessarily need a driver's license.

A person CAN go through life without having a driver's license. There are viable alternative transportation choices in most communities.

Education and health are seen as absolute civil rights; denying a child an education because of their vaccine status is wrong as well as denying a child healthcare because their parent questions vaccination is wrong too.

Quote:
I never understood the car-seat vs. vaccine analogy. There is absolutely no comparison. Two totally different entities.
I agree. It is the nanny state wetdream of controlling us all with their view of the world through enacting laws, statutes, codes, etc.
SilverMoon010 and samaxtics like this.

"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.

Last edited by applejuice; 05-28-2015 at 02:44 PM.
applejuice is offline  
#18 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
So what does engender trust in a government recommendation, or even a mandate? What factors determine whether the public complies, expresses skepticism, or puts up outright resistance?

I guess it goes back to the question of the OP: Why does the public appear to trust carseats more than vaccines?
applejuice likes this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#19 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
So what does engender trust in a government recommendation, or even a mandate? What factors determine whether the public complies, expresses skepticism, or puts up outright resistance?
I still think it's mainly about whether the public feels threatened by the thing addressed by the recommendation (be it polio or car accidents). Since even the pharma-funded government [please note that my tongue is firmly in cheek here] isn't going to deliberately release measles and polio into the population to increase the threat posed by those diseases, all they can do is highlight the threat of those diseases returning and the complications that could occur if they do.
Jessica765 is offline  
#20 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 01:30 PM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
So what does engender trust in a government recommendation, or even a mandate? What factors determine whether the public complies, expresses skepticism, or puts up outright resistance?

I guess it goes back to the question of the OP: Why does the public appear to trust carseats more than vaccines?
I think what it comes down to maybe as simple as, dare I say, people trust car seat manufacturers more than they trust vaccine manufacturers, and feel the benefits of the car seat outweigh any risks involved with a potential defective product, while not quite so sure that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks. It would appear that way if we are comparing car seat mandates, where people easily comply, versus vaccine mandates, where people don't as easily comply.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#21 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 01:34 PM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Keep in mind that there is a long history of pharmaceutical companies and government dealing dirty and conducting wrongdoings, so the mistrust is certainly warranted. Car seat manufacturers' reputations aren't quite as tainted.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#22 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 02:00 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
I am bothered by the fact that a number of posters are saying that car seats are safe. Car seat have safety issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_safety_seat#Hazards

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/bu...l-at-risk.html
muddie is offline  
#23 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 02:32 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,811
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by muddie View Post
I am bothered by the fact that a number of posters are saying that car seats are safe. Car seat have safety issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_safety_seat#Hazards

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/bu...l-at-risk.html
The second link points out that 3/4 car seats are not installed properly, and that automobile crashes remain the number one cause of death in children under 13.

Despite the above, there are not huge campaigns to make it mandatory to have carseats professionally installed. The media has not picked up the cause in a huge way, nor has social media.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.
kathymuggle is online now  
#24 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 02:34 PM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
The second link points out that 3/4 car seats are not installed properly, and that automobile crashes remain the number one cause of death in children under 13.

Despite the above, there are not huge campaigns to make it mandatory to have carseats professionally installed. The media has not picked up the cause in a huge way, nor has social media.
Excellent. We can easily see how priorities are a bit misplaced.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#25 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
The second link points out that 3/4 car seats are not installed properly, and that automobile crashes remain the number one cause of death in children under 13.

Despite the above, there are not huge campaigns to make it mandatory to have carseats professionally installed. The media has not picked up the cause in a huge way, nor has social media.
I do think this is something ripe for a movement. It's obviously not practical to have them installed professionally each time (many people have to take them out at times for various reasons), but something should be done to empower parents to install and re-install correctly. I was given a list of places I could go to get a free check of my installation, and I called several of them, only to reach disconnected phone numbers, responses it they didn't do it anymore, responses that the one guy who did it was on vacation for two weeks, responses that was only done on the third Thursday of the month, etc. The car seat safety check is clearly not a priority in my area. It's ridiculous.
Jessica765 is offline  
#26 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sophia's Correction
Posts: 9,078
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
There's no money to be made in car seat checks, it is done by volunteers. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I am Rhome
Mirzam is offline  
#27 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
There's no money to be made in car seat checks, it is done by volunteers. BIG DIFFERENCE.
There could be, though. I'd pay for it. I'd also pay extra for a car seat from a company that provided it. (Now that I know how hard it is to get a free one in my area.)

Or it could be a government service, reliably provided during regular hours.

Last edited by Jessica765; 05-28-2015 at 03:04 PM.
Jessica765 is offline  
#28 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 8,479
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica765 View Post
I still think it's mainly about whether the public feels threatened by the thing addressed by the recommendation (be it polio or car accidents). Since even the pharma-funded government [please note that my tongue is firmly in cheek here] isn't going to deliberately release measles and polio into the population to increase the threat posed by those diseases, all they can do is highlight the threat of those diseases returning and the complications that could occur if they do.
Well, I'll first thank you to remove that tongue from your cheek. http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2362?etoc

I do agree with the rest and will add that the key word here is "feels." Our personal risk perceptions are based on feelings, what we personally choose to fear the most,and rarely any kind of rational, objective analysis. That's why I usually don't like legislators getting into the business of risk assessment.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
#teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

RIP old MDC. We miss you!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#29 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sophia's Correction
Posts: 9,078
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica765 View Post
There could be, though. I'd pay for it. I'd also pay extra for a car seat from a company that provided it. (Now that I know how hard it is to get a free one in my area.)

Or it could be a government service, reliably provided during regular hours.
Right, but how does that compare to the multi-billion dollar vaccine market? What are you going to pay $20, $10?

Silly.

I am Rhome
Mirzam is offline  
#30 of 205 Old 05-28-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
Right, but how does that compare to the multi-billion dollar vaccine market? What are you going to pay $20, $10?

Silly.
Why would I compare them? They are independent problems that have nothing to do with one another.


Also, if every parent paid $10 for every car seat (I have thus far purchased around 10 car seats), I think you'd be looking at some pretty serious money.

I don't know if car seat installations could be made profitable, but either way I think the government should likely be involved in promoting/mandating/subsidizing them.
Jessica765 is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,443

14 members and 1,429 guests
AlisonNorth80 , deidrec , DeonIvan , Dovenoir , FunSunSon , Hyacinthe , idler , kathymuggle , lauritagoddess , LexFitz , Liquidat1on , Nelen , Realdeal , Vinal
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.