Keep asking the questions that don't get responses - Mothering Forums
 294Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 133 Old 11-08-2015, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
Keep asking the questions that don't get responses

I've noticed that there are some interesting questions that people slide on past.

This happens on both sides of the discussion.

This thread is to re-post the questions that were skipped.

There are two advantages to bringing them up again.

1) If they are hard questions for the other side to answer, they are probably generally useful in vaccine debates. For those of us who get into such debates, compiling a list of tough questions could be useful.

2) Perhaps the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth...time they are brought up someone will have a brainstorm and sort it out.

This isn't a thread for the questions that have been asked and answered a hundred times. It is for the questions that were just quietly ignored.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 133 Old 11-08-2015, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
What about babies and children that react to vaccines over and over again? Is it always coincidence? Could the parents be re-writing what happened to justify their belief system (vaccines cause autism, for example)? Are there studies about these cases of multiple reactions?

I'm trying to be helpful by offering some of the possible explanations--but I can honestly say that I've never seen this question addressed by a pro-vaccine person here or elsewhere.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#3 of 133 Old 11-08-2015, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
Wanted to add that this is not a thread for trick questions.

An example would be posting an impossibly esoteric section from a very specialized article on vaccines and demanding that parents explain what it is about in order to justify their right to question vaccines.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
 
#4 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 01:20 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
I'm not sure this is the type of question you have in mind, but it's one I would like to see answered.

Why is it that one death out of millions of people caused by complications of a VTD is proof that everyone should be vaccinated, while one death out of millions of people caused by a reaction to a vaccine is insignificant?
usually-lurking is offline  
#5 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 06:55 AM
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,152
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 650 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by usually-lurking View Post
I'm not sure this is the type of question you have in mind, but it's one I would like to see answered.

Why is it that one death out of millions of people caused by complications of a VTD is proof that everyone should be vaccinated, while one death out of millions of people caused by a reaction to a vaccine is insignificant?
some people honestly believe if a child dies from a vaccine, then that child is 'sacrificed for the greater good' is how they see it. They don't see the grief stricken, heartbroken parents, they don't believe it truly was a vaccine that could potentially kill, because their dr told them other wise.
usual excuses: 'Oh, it's so rare, one in a million'
'well some babies can't have vaccines' (uh, too late now, isn't it?)
'the vaccines didn't cause the problems, baby was born that way'...(funny to note baby was 'normal' til the vaccines)

that ONE person who contracted a VTD well, that's money in pharma's pocket for pushing more useless vaccines - fearmongering, plain n simple.
emmy526 is offline  
#6 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
Yes, I think that question/answer falls more into the category of answers some of us find unsatisfactory.

Browse back through threads and look for points that are raised and totally ignored, on both sides of the argument. The stuff that people don't want to discuss.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#7 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 09:34 AM
 
Xerxella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 3,284
Mentioned: 552 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by usually-lurking View Post
I'm not sure this is the type of question you have in mind, but it's one I would like to see answered.

Why is it that one death out of millions of people caused by complications of a VTD is proof that everyone should be vaccinated, while one death out of millions of people caused by a reaction to a vaccine is insignificant?

Maybe I can tackle this for the pro vax side:
If we didn't have vaccines, many more people will die from VAD. It's because there are vaccines that, in your hypothetical scenario, only one person died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Married to one of the last good guys left Jim
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mom to AJ 4/07
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and Genevieve 5/09
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And THEN twins: Matt 11/14
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and his guardian angel Billy
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ten days in our lives, a lifetime in our hearts


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Xerxella is offline  
#8 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 11:23 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
Maybe I can tackle this for the pro vax side:
If we didn't have vaccines, many more people will die from VAD. It's because there are vaccines that, in your hypothetical scenario, only one person died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What if the disease is not (even) vaccine avoidable? Why should we have our children injected with something for no reason:

http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2015/...mumps-vaccine/

Last edited by Anne Jividen; 11-09-2015 at 11:53 AM.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#9 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by usually-lurking View Post
I'm not sure this is the type of question you have in mind, but it's one I would like to see answered.

Why is it that one death out of millions of people caused by complications of a VTD is proof that everyone should be vaccinated, while one death out of millions of people caused by a reaction to a vaccine is insignificant?
I'm wondering the same thing.

Last edited by Anne Jividen; 11-09-2015 at 11:52 AM.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#10 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 11:34 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
Maybe I can tackle this for the pro vax side:
If we didn't have vaccines, many more people will die from VAD. It's because there are vaccines that, in your hypothetical scenario, only one person died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Children dying from vaccines is not hypothetical:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...easles-vaccine
SilverMoon010 likes this.

Last edited by Anne Jividen; 11-09-2015 at 11:52 AM.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#11 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 12:31 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
Maybe I can tackle this for the pro vax side:
If we didn't have vaccines, many more people will die from VAD. It's because there are vaccines that, in your hypothetical scenario, only one person died.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, this basically.

The risk of a child dying from measles is not 1 in a million.
chalkdust3r likes this.

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is offline  
#12 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 12:32 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne Jividen View Post
Children dying from vaccines is not hypothetical:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...easles-vaccine
Isn't that the case where children were accidentally given a muscle relaxant instead of the MMR?

That is a very tragic story but not an example of children dying from the MMR.

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is offline  
#13 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 12:58 PM
 
ismewilde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 408
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Some articles to consider:

http://cfstreatment.blogspot.com/201...c-accepts.html

Please click to open the corporations list on this link:

http://www.cdcfoundation.org/what/partners

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opin...-its-decisions

Papers on thimerosal:

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2012/373678/

http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/07...osalPaper1.pdf

http://www.healing-arts.org/children...on_Mercury.pdf

Note the first paragraph on the final page.
applejuice and Anne Jividen like this.

"The soul is its own source of unfolding" - Heraclitus


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ismewilde is offline  
#14 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 03:05 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,811
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Yeah, this basically.

The risk of a child dying from measles is not 1 in a million.
But why is a real death now worth less than a hypothetical situation.


Child dies of vaccine now

versus

If vaccine rates drop, then we might see more disease and death.

I think current realities have to trump theoreticals.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.
kathymuggle is online now  
#15 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
But why is a real death now worth less than a hypothetical situation.


Child dies of vaccine now

versus

If vaccine rates drop, then we might see more disease and death.

I think current realities have to trump theoreticals.
Not if you are really good at denying that anything ever really happened or happens.
Anne Jividen likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#16 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Isn't that the case where children were accidentally given a muscle relaxant instead of the MMR?

That is a very tragic story but not an example of children dying from the MMR.
You're right, this is a story of children dying because of the practice of vaccination, not necessarily from that vaccine itself. Maybe we should refine that practice so one in one million, whoops I mean 34 in one million don't die.
SilverMoon010 likes this.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#17 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
I guess that's one of those questions that won't get answered.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#18 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 04:14 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
...

Last edited by Mathemom; 01-08-2016 at 03:37 PM.
Mathemom is offline  
#19 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 04:52 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathemom View Post
That argument can be turned around, though, and used for the other side.

"Why is it that one death out of millions of people caused by a reaction to a vaccine is proof that nobody should be vaccinated, while one death out of millions of people caused by complications of <insert name of disease> is insignificant?"

Of course, the truth is that the death of every child is significant, and it is a personal tragedy for that family. We all wish that no children had to suffer or die, but sadly that is not the way the world works. I hope nobody would dismiss the death of a child for any reason.

Which version of the argument you find more satisfying depends on how you weigh the relative risks of people dying from vaccines vs. people dying from the diseases vaccines prevent.
Vaccines claim to prevent.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#20 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 05:04 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
...
teacozy and Anne Jividen like this.

Last edited by Mathemom; 01-08-2016 at 03:38 PM.
Mathemom is offline  
#21 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 05:34 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Which version of the argument you find more satisfying depends on how you weigh the relative risks of people dying from what is claimed to be a vaccine injury vs. people dying from the diseases vaccines claim to prevent.

To put claim on only one side would suggest bias. Personally, I find it cleaner without the claim, but YMMV.[/QUOTE]

So are we talking personal injury claim, in a claim of courts? Oh, wait, by today's American definition, i don't have that right.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...enth_amendment
Anne Jividen is offline  
#22 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 05:38 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
When it comes to claiming what rendered my child ill, because I am going to be responsible for said child, I should hold sway over said claim.
kathymuggle likes this.
Anne Jividen is offline  
#23 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 05:39 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
But why is a real death now worth less than a hypothetical situation.


Child dies of vaccine now

versus

If vaccine rates drop, then we might see more disease and death.

I think current realities have to trump theoreticals.
NO one one either death was worth less than the other. It is about looking at the big picture.

As was put by another person (they got the roughly 11 deaths a year from MMR number from the VAERS data non-vaxers often cite)

"So-called wild measles was merely an unpleasant experience for 90% of the victims, but it hospitalized an estimated 48,000 per year and killed 400. No antivaxer has ever been able to explain why trading 400 wild measles deaths for even the alleged 11 vaccine deaths is a bad deal. Or why 400 deaths and thousands of cases of deafness, blindness, and brain damage are the signs of a "mild" disease.

To give an analogy, suppose before seat belts 20,000 people died a year from being thrown through the windshield, and today, nobody dies that way, but 8 people die from their seat belts. (The numbers are made up, but it is absolutely true that in rare cases people are more injured by a seat belt than by the accident.) Is this an argument for or against seat belts? What would happen if we got rid of seat belts?"
chalkdust3r likes this.

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by teacozy; 11-09-2015 at 09:45 PM.
teacozy is offline  
#24 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
As I said above, there are questions that the pro-vaccine are eager to answer and the one we've been discussing is a good example. It is just that the answers don't satisfy some folks.

I'm interested in focusing this thread, not on answers that are debatable but on answers that are non-existent.

To return to my original example, how to explain those babies, children and adults who react more than once to a vaccine? The best current example, is, of course, the HPV vaccine. It is given multiple times. Some of the people who have ended up chronically ill following the vaccine have reacted to multiple doses. In discussions of these chronic illnesses I've never seen either an explanation or an acknowledgement of the problem of multiple reactions.

Now THAT is an unanswered question.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#25 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
I didn't originally phrase this one as a question, but the entire thread was ignored except for someone popping up with a variation on "the dose makes the poison"

So, in the aluminum paper that Bow and I have been discussing, on pages 9 and 10, there is some coverage of interactions between Al and glyphosate. One of the problems with the vaccine schedule is that babies don't get vaccinations in isolation. They get several at one time, plus a plethora of environmental exposures. How do we know that some of these combinations of environmental exposures and vaccines are not destructive? Is anyone even keeping an eye on the research for possibly dangerous mixes that could be destructive to the long-term health and functioning of human beings? Here is the handy link to the article http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...Boi%3Dscholarr
Anne Jividen and Nemi27 like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#26 of 133 Old 11-09-2015, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,396
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3205 Post(s)
This thread https://www.mothering.com/forum/47-va...y-testing.html starts by looking at the problem of inadequate long-term studies of ADHD drugs and compares this reality with vaccines.

These are the questions I asked in the first post.
Quote:
How many vaccines have been looked at in long-term studies, either singly or in combination? Are such studies needed? Or is clinical use enough, even without mandatory reporting of problems?
No pro-vaccine responses. So I'm going to count these as more unanswered questions.

I've barely scratched the surface.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is online now  
#27 of 133 Old 11-10-2015, 08:29 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,811
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
NO one one either death was worth less than the other. It is about looking at the big picture.

As was put by another person (they got the roughly 11 deaths a year from MMR number from the VAERS data non-vaxers often cite)

"So-called wild measles was merely an unpleasant experience for 90% of the victims, but it hospitalized an estimated 48,000 per year and killed 400. No antivaxer has ever been able to explain why trading 400 wild measles deaths for even the alleged 11 vaccine deaths is a bad deal. Or why 400 deaths and thousands of cases of deafness, blindness, and brain damage are the signs of a "mild" disease.
"
Ah, measles. Measles is always trotted out because it is a bit of an ace in the pro-vax pocket. Shall we talk about the flu, or how about pertussis - which in 2012 reached levels not seen since the 1950's?

But....let's talk about measles. It is one of the only diseases where the argument of "do it or we will return to mass complications and deaths" might resonate with anyone with any knowledge on the subject.. Flu, pertussis? Nope - vaccines are lousy. Chicken pox, rotavirus, hep a , mumps, rubella? Nope - diseases are not scary in developed countries. No mass complications or mass deaths expected (although an argument can be made that teens who have not had mumps, rubella and CP by adolescent could consider vaccination to keep complications low). Diptheria? Scary - but sooo unlikely to return. Diphtheria is largely a disease of social disintegration. Tetanus? Not contagious. etc. I will also add that many non-vaxxers would put measles in with chicken pox, rubella, rotavirus, etc. It really isn't scary to a lot of them.

So...back to measles for a second, now that lurkers know why it is trotted out. Other diseases are just not so convincing. With the exception of a vaccinated, very sick woman who got measles in a hospital (the hospital should have done a better job of keeping her away from the public) no one has died of measles in the USA in over 10 years.

As a parent, my number one job is to protect my children. 11 deaths from MMR versus 1 from the disease. Cast my vote for the "1" crowd, please.
To a large degree I think the public is duped. The media does not help in this area. People truly think measles is out there just waiting to get their child, and if they do not vaccinate, their child will get it and will suffer horribly. Or they think they have to vaccinate for their child to go to school, or tthey simply always do exactly as their doctor says.....

I suspect that only a small percentage of people (less than 10% perhaps) know that in the last 10 years or so the average number of measles cases in the USA has been around 200, and that only one very sick, vaccinated person died form it.

I acknowledge that measles numbers would spike if more people declined MMR. Measles is endemic in some parts of the world and highly contagious. I am still going to skip the MMR vaccine - because not vaccinating for measles is currently safer than vaccinating for measles in many countries, by virtually any matrix. I do not care if you think this selfish (shrug). I am not going to put my children at higher risk for the "greater good." I am, frankly, very confused how any parent can choose to put their child's safety below the "greater good".....the only conclusion I can come to is that many pro-vaxxers do not really believe that vaccines put their child at any risk. This is evident in their denial of court cases, lack of concern with vaccine inserts, refusing to name *any* person they believe hurt by vaccines, the continual dismissal of parent stories and "coincident disorder" etc.
Deborah, 95191, Xerxella and 7 others like this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.

Last edited by kathymuggle; 11-10-2015 at 07:23 PM.
kathymuggle is online now  
#28 of 133 Old 11-10-2015, 08:34 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,811
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
back on track:

Why do we continue to give infants more aluminum (through vaccines) on one day than has shown to be safe in one day?

Please note: I am not interested in hearing about aluminum in breastmilk or formula in 6 months! If this happens I will stamp my cyber foot and claim muddying the issues.

What is the daily limit for aluminum for infants? fetuses?

Do vaccines given on any particular day surpass this limit?

TIA

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.
 
Book and herb loving mama to 2 teens and one young adult.
kathymuggle is online now  
#29 of 133 Old 11-10-2015, 08:59 AM
 
mama24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: with the dust bunnies
Posts: 2,928
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Ah, measles. Measles is always trotted out because it is a bit of an ace in the pro-vax pocket. Shall we talk about the flu, or how about pertussis - which in 2012 reached levels not seen since the 1950's?

But....let's talk about measles. It is one of the only diseases where the argument of "do it or we will return to mass complications and deaths" actually resonates with anyone with any knowledge on the subject.. Flu, pertussis? Nope - vaccines are lousy. Chicken pox, rotavirus, hep a , mumps, rubella? Nope - diseases are not scary in developed countries. No mass complications or mass deaths expected (although an argument can be made that teens who have not had mumps, rubella and CP by adolescent could consider vaccination to keep complications low). Diptheria? Scary - but sooo unlikely to return. Diphtheria is largely a disease of social disintegration. Tetanus? Not contagious. etc. I will also add that many non-vaxxers would put measles in with chicken pox, rubella, rotavirus, etc. It really isn't scary to a lot of them.

So...back to measles for a second, now that lurkers know why it is trotted out. Other diseases are just not so convincing. With the exception of a vaccinated, very sick woman who got measles in a hospital (the hospital should have done a better job of keeping her away from the public) no one has died of measles in the USA in over 10 years.

As a parent, my number one job is to protect my children. 11 deaths from MMR versus 1 from the disease. Cast my vote for the "1" crowd, please.
To a large degree I think the public is duped. The media does not help in this area. People truly think measles is out there just waiting to get their child, and if they do not vaccinate, their child will get it and will suffer horribly. Or they think they have to vaccinate for their child to go to school, or tthey simply always do exactly as their doctor says.....

I suspect that only a small percentage of people (less than 10% perhaps) know that in the last 10 years or so the average number of measles cases in the USA has been around 200, and that only one very sick, vaccinated person died form it.

I acknowledge that measles numbers would spike if more people declined MMR. Measles is endemic in some parts of the world and highly contagious. I am still going to skip the MMR vaccine - because not vaccinating for measles is currently safer than vaccinating for measles in many countries, by virtually any matrix. I do not care if you think this selfish (shrug). I am not going to put my children at higher risk for the "greater good." I am, frankly, very confused how any parent can choose to put their child's safety below the "greater good".....the only conclusion I can come to is that many pro-vaxxers do not really believe that vaccines put their child at any risk. This is evident in their denial of court cases, lack of concern with vaccine inserts, refusing to name *any* person they believe hurt by vaccines, the continual dismissal of parent stories and "coincident disorder" etc.
Bravo!!!

Sus
samaxtics, Anne Jividen and Nemi27 like this.
mama24-7 is offline  
#30 of 133 Old 11-10-2015, 09:00 AM
 
Xerxella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 3,284
Mentioned: 552 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

As a parent, my number one job is to protect my children. 11 deaths from MMR versus 1 from the disease. Cast my vote for the "1" crowd, please.
[/I]To a large degree I think the public is duped. The media does not help in this area. People truly think measles is out there just waiting to get their child, and if they do not vaccinate, their child will get it and will suffer horribly. Or they think they have to vaccinate for their child to go to school, or tthey simply always do exactly as their doctor says.....

I suspect that only a small percentage of people (less than 10% perhaps) know that in the last 10 years or so the average number of measles cases in the USA has been around 200, and that only one very sick, vaccinated person died form it.

I acknowledge that measles numbers would spike if more people declined MMR. Measles is endemic in some parts of the world and highly contagious. I am still going to skip the MMR vaccine - because not vaccinating for measles is currently safer than vaccinating for measles in many countries, by virtually any matrix. I do not care if you think this selfish (shrug). I am not going to put my children at higher risk for the "greater good." I am, frankly, very confused how any parent can choose to put their child's safety below the "greater good".....the only conclusion I can come to is that many pro-vaxxers do not really believe that vaccines put their child at any risk. This is evident in their denial of court cases, lack of concern with vaccine inserts, refusing to name *any* person they believe hurt by vaccines, the continual dismissal of parent stories and "coincident disorder" etc.

This exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Deborah, Anne Jividen and Nemi27 like this.

Married to one of the last good guys left Jim
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mom to AJ 4/07
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and Genevieve 5/09
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


And THEN twins: Matt 11/14
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and his guardian angel Billy
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ten days in our lives, a lifetime in our hearts


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Xerxella is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,302

13 members and 1,289 guests
bugmenot , bunurias5 , Deborah , fernandacalloway , fernandacalloway123 , FunSunSon , idler , kathymuggle , KerriB , lauritagoddess , lovelytony22 , momcreates
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.