The big pile of good science supporting vaccines - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 166 Old 06-27-2017, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another study for the "big pile" of science supporting vaccinations. Will the follow-up studies take place, or will parents be encouraged to keep vaccinating their children regardless?

Note also the soothing language which the authors are hoping will keep them from being labeled "anti-vaccine" and ending up unemployed.

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This study examines whether antecedent vaccinations are associated with increased incidence of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), anorexia nervosa (AN), anxiety disorder, chronic tic disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, major depressive disorder, and bipolar disorder in a national sample of privately insured children.
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#32 of 166 Old 06-27-2017, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Another study for the "big pile" of science supporting vaccinations. Will the follow-up studies take place, or will parents be encouraged to keep vaccinating their children regardless?

Note also the soothing language which the authors are hoping will keep them from being labeled "anti-vaccine" and ending up unemployed.
Link, please?
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#33 of 166 Old 06-28-2017, 06:56 AM
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5244035/
@Deborah

Quote:
Another study for the "big pile" of science supporting vaccinations. Will the follow-up studies take place, or will parents be encouraged to keep vaccinating their children regardless?

Note also the soothing language which the authors are hoping will keep them from being labeled "anti-vaccine" and ending up unemployed
.

I wasn't a fan of that language either.
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#34 of 166 Old 06-28-2017, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Bow!
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#35 of 166 Old 09-30-2017, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This article, which links to the relevant science, brings forward a number of interesting points. https://medium.com/@andreangelantoni...e-6dfc196afd9b

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However, our current perception of the immune system is more simplistic. It was, to a large extent, shaped in the 1950s with the formulation of the clonal selection hypothesis. This line of thinking has emphasized the adaptive immune system and the specific antigen recognition and specific memory, which have been crucial in vaccine development, perhaps at the expense of examining cross-reactive features of the immune system as well as the memory capacity of the innate immune system. Although tens of thousands of studies assessing disease-specific, antibody-inducing effects of vaccines have been conducted, most people have not examined whether vaccines have nonspecific effects because current perception excludes such effects.”
A lot of that pile of science is very old, extremely outdated, and not moving with the times. But it is embedded in the way vaccines are developed and manufactured and used.

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#36 of 166 Old 10-01-2017, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is some really good scientific work getting done and even published, but there is no trickle-down effect when it comes to vaccines. They still get made according to theories and standards from the 1950s in many cases. http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/20...icity-testing/

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In essence, traditional toxicity testing only assesses acute, short-term toxicity of a substance through experiments that expose laboratory animals to various doses of the chemical being tested. It does not measure whether periodic exposure to a chemical is safe over a period of several years.2
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#37 of 166 Old 10-03-2017, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is the big pile of science still relevant when it is a new vaccine, made with new technology? http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/20...uenza-vaccine/

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On the package insert for the Flublok’s quadrivalent vaccine, it states:
A single 0.5 mL dose of Flublok Quadrivalent contains sodium chloride (4.4 mg), monobasic sodium phosphate (0.195 mcg), dibasic sodium phosphate (1.3 mg), and polysorbate 20 (Tween®20) (27.5 mcg). Each 0.5 mL dose of Flublok Quadrivalent may also contain residual amounts of baculovirus and Spodoptera frugiperda cell proteins (≤ 19 mcg), baculovirus and cellular DNA (≤ 10 ng), and Triton X-100 (≤ 100 mcg)6
What are baculovirus and Spodoptera frugiperda cell proteins?
Baculoviruses are a large group of DNA viruses (pathogens) that infect insects7 and Spodoptera frugiperda are commonly known as armyworms, also regarded as pests.8 So while the vaccine manufacturer and public health agencies boast that Flublok does not contain thimerosal, formaldehyde, antibiotics or other reactive substances, can this vaccine be considered pure given that insect viruses and armyworm cell proteins are used as ingredients?
I think that @teacozy gave us all permission to read package inserts as long as we ignore any listed reactions/side-effects. Therefore, discussing the ingredients is allowed, I hope.

Probably nothing to be concerned about. And the people in the comments who ended up sick after getting this vaccine are suffering from very late onset coincidence disorder.

I did a VAERS search, using the name of the manufacturer, Protein Sciences, rather than the name of the vaccine, which wasn't listed as FluBlok. There were 131 reports describing 531 symptoms.

And I know that a VAERS report is meaningless and 131 reports equals 131 times meaningless.
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#38 of 166 Old 10-06-2017, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Why we need a vaccine against chickenpox: Because there are some really ignorant doctors...

http://www.americanow.com/story/heal...ken-pox-photos

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Hayley Lyons shared photos of the reaction her son, Lewis, suffered because of Ibuprofen, and explained in an accompanying post how unaware she was of the dangers of using the anti-inflammatory medication for chicken pox.




“Chickenpox is going round again can I please remind people NOT to give your children nurofen/ibuprofen. 4 different doctors from our local Hospital (out of hours) prescribed it for Lewis as we couldn’t get his temp down. They even administered it to him in A&E,” she wrote in the post, the Manchester Evening News reported.
I regularly warn people about the danger of trying to lower fever during chickenpox. Not a good idea unless the fever is life-threateningly high, which is about as rare as vaccine injury...well, actually probably much rarer than vaccine injury. We have no idea at all how common vaccine injury might be. Since there is so much effort put into not counting vaccine injuries.
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#39 of 166 Old 10-16-2017, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is an interesting example. The vaccine didn't prevent flu in this population. However, they recommend continuing to use the vaccine. Add in handwashing and avoiding crowds. Maybe vaccinate everyone around the person. https://www.stjude.org/media-resourc...-patients.html

My take. The science is accurately presented. The actions recommended in the article aren't supported by any science at all. Just wishful thinking.
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#40 of 166 Old 10-18-2017, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This thread should be read by anyone who thinks that the science supporting vaccines is all good, solid, properly referenced, properly conducted science...

While any science that is critical of vaccines is bad, built on sand, incorrectly reference, improperly conducted science...

Things don't work that way in the real world.
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#41 of 166 Old 10-18-2017, 11:49 PM
 
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Again here this in my view is just too black and white. I encourage others reading this to look for the subtlety.

It?s obvious that not all scientific results which have results which support vaccination are going to be perfect. Science is done by humans and we are flawed. However there is such a body of work in support of the general principles of vaccines, and the specific details of specific vaccines that we can ignore plenty.

I?ve yet to see any published results which truly reveals problems and which isn?t easy to debunk. And I?ve read this entire thread....

Professional science requires subtlety in understanding which I don?t pretend to have in any field other than my own.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
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#42 of 166 Old 10-19-2017, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sciencemum View Post
Again here this in my view is just too black and white. I encourage others reading this to look for the subtlety.

It?s obvious that not all scientific results which have results which support vaccination are going to be perfect. Science is done by humans and we are flawed. However there is such a body of work in support of the general principles of vaccines, and the specific details of specific vaccines that we can ignore plenty.

I?ve yet to see any published results which truly reveals problems and which isn?t easy to debunk. And I?ve read this entire thread....

Professional science requires subtlety in understanding which I don?t pretend to have in any field other than my own.
Thanks for sharing your point of view.

I'll leave it to other members to read the thread and consider whether I've gone too black and white in the examples I've chosen.
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#43 of 166 Old 10-30-2017, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Science blogs gone away? http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/10/t...-an-error.html

I've got to quote one of the comments because it is such a perfect fit for our local conversations in this forum over the years.
Quote:
David Gorski always had the same MO when it came to studies:
1) Bash the author's credentials/history
2) Associate that person to other antivaxxers that they've attacked before. Guilt by association.
3) Bash the methods of the study: Sample size too small, bias, not randomized, etc
4) Bash the analysis: wrong statistical analysis used, results are meaningless due to the problems with the methods, etc.
5) Indicate that there are many studies that show no association between vaccine/adverse reaction, find other like-minded bloggers/ghost writers who agree with them, to show overwhelming "consensus" of vaccine safety.
Rinse and repeat.
I'm glad that the astroturf site is gone. Too many people use them in vaccine debates as if they were the gospel.
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#44 of 166 Old 10-31-2017, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A truly blatant example of a marketing study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1508536/

The outcome wasn't what they were aiming for, though.
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Levels of missed opportunities to immunize were high in all groups and did not change over time. Physicians' knowledge of contraindications was low. CONCLUSIONS: Bonuses sharply and rapidly increased immunization cover-age in medical records. However, much of the increase was the result of better documentation. A bonus is a powerful incentive, but more structure or education may be necessary to achieve the desired results.
How much of the current vaccine "research" consists of marketing studies?
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#45 of 166 Old 11-01-2017, 06:02 AM
 
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Levels of missed opportunities to immunize were high in all groups and did not change over time. Physicians' knowledge of contraindications was low.
Sounds like doctors were hesitant to vaccinate those patients who came in for an office visit because they were ill. And according to the vaccine pushers, that's not a good enough reason not to vaccinate them.
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#46 of 166 Old 11-02-2017, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
Sounds like doctors were hesitant to vaccinate those patients who came in for an office visit because they were ill. And according to the vaccine pushers, that's not a good enough reason not to vaccinate them.
Very good catch. Ignorance of "contraindications" means missing opportunities to vaccinate people who doctors see as possibly vulnerable to problems from receiving vaccines. No medical judgement allowed. Max vax no matter what!
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#47 of 166 Old 11-06-2017, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is this part of the pile of good science supporting vaccines? https://www.medicalnewsbulletin.com/...italian-study/

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The study developed a model comprised of multiple disease states and transitions between these states, which included a healthy state, the presence of genital warts, grade 1 and grade 2/3 cervical intraepithelial neoplasia, cervical cancer, anal cancer, and death. The model was adapted based on data available in the scientific literature about HPV and associated diseases and Italian life tables. A number of indicators were estimated to assess the impact of disease and vaccination on health, which included life expectancy, quality-adjusted life years (QALY), Disability-Adjusted Life Years (DALY), and attributable risk (AR).
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#48 of 166 Old 11-19-2017, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An analysis of how some science and the scientist involved in the research is placed outside the virtuous circle of good science. https://vaccinechoicecanada.com/medi...ne-scientists/
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A June 2014 Pubmed abstract states:
“Aluminium is neurotoxic. Its free ion, Al(3+) (aq), is highly biologically reactive and uniquely equipped to do damage to essential cellular (neuronal) biochemistry. This unequivocal fact must be the starting point in examining the risk posed by aluminium as a neurotoxin in humans. Aluminium is present in the human brain and it accumulates with age. The most recent research demonstrates that a significant proportion of individuals older than 70 years of age have a potentially pathological accumulation of aluminium somewhere in their brain. What are the symptoms of chronic aluminium intoxication in humans? What if neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease are the manifestation of the risk of aluminum as a neurotoxin? How might such an hypothesis be tested?” (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24779346)
Shaw’s work of investigating the effect of aluminum in vaccines seems a natural and important area of research given the dramatic increase in Alzheimer’s disease in our society today, and the fact that the amount of aluminum in many vaccines exceeds the maximum amount permitted by the FDA.
We also know that mercury and aluminum work synergistically such that their impact is substantially more toxic when given together. Both mercury and aluminum can be present in vaccines and cause permanent neurological damage in children and adults.
Excellent analysis of the hostile conditions under which scientists who try to criticize ANY aspect of the vaccine program function.
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#49 of 166 Old 11-28-2017, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Summary and analysis of the many ways in which medical science is corrupted and how that plays out in relation to vaccine related science. http://ahrp.org/dissolving-illusions...are-corrupted/

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The study included complete Open Payments data (2013 to 2016) for editors of the top five journals from each of seven disciplines. The study found that within each medical specialty, editors received more in payments from industry than the average doctor; there were wide ranges as to the amounts. It appears that these gatekeepers of science failed not only to comply with disclosure standards that they demand of authors of scientific studies, journal editors fail to adopt any professional guidelines to prevent blatant financial conflicts of interest from corrupting the medical literature.
Among the numerous examples of corrupted science that can be attributed to the illegitimate intervention by journal editors who are financially tied to pharmaceutical companies, is the case of an Israeli study headed by Dr. Yehuda Shoenfeld, an internationally acknowledged, foremost expert on autoimmune disorders.
(2) The Shoenfeld study, Behavioral Abnormalities In Young Female Mice Following Administration Of Aluminum Adjuvants And The Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccine Gardasil, was first submitted to the Journal of Human Immunology where it languished for 8 months and was then rejected by the editor-in-chief, Dr. Racke. According to the American Academy of Neurology, Dr. Racke received personal compensation from EMD Serono, a subsidiary of Merck, the manufacturer of one of the HPV vaccine.
The article was then published in the journal Vaccine (January 2016), until it was summarily withdrawn by that journal’s editor-in-chief, Dr. Gregory Poland, who is chairman of Merck’s safety evaluation committee for vaccine trials.
  • Not only were there no protests of foul play from members of the medical academic community, the rejections by the editors were used as ammunition, by cyber hit-squads to tarnish some of the scientists who authored the report.
I'm saddened to note that those rejections were used as ammunition on this very board by some members. I am NOT accusing those members of being part of cyber hit-squads, nor of receiving money or other benefits from Merck. I'm just noting that some people may be a bit too eager to accept criticisms of vaccine critical scientific publications.
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#50 of 166 Old 11-29-2017, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Study pushing HPV vaccine in India is challenged as inaccurate. http://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/d...ndigarh--59239

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In a letter sent to the same journal, Puliyel wrote that the PGI paper has assumed 98 to 99 per cent mortality and falsely exaggerated the benefit of vaccination. The PGI researchers, according to Puliyel, used the logic that most of the cancer cases are diagnosed only at the third or fourth stage, thus, concluding that the mortality rate is quite high.
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#51 of 166 Old 11-30-2017, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Analysis of the weakness in the "autism is genetic" science. https://worldmercuryproject.org/news...causes-autism/

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A pivotal paper published in early 2017 goes a step further, asserting that “The term ‘heritability,’ as it is used today in human behavioral genetics, is one of the most misleading in the history of science.” The paper’s two authors argue against the “deeply flawed” assumption that “genetic influences…can be separated from their environmental context.” According to these authors, “contemporary biology has demonstrated beyond any doubt that traits are produced by interactions between genetic and nongenetic factors that occur in each moment of developmental time. That is to say, there are simply no such things as gene-only influences [emphasis in original].” Stated another way, the paper suggests that “it makes little sense to attempt to quantify the relative importance of two different factors that interact with one another [dynamically] to produce an outcome.”
Really interesting article, worth discussing!
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#52 of 166 Old 12-04-2017, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Recent study examined a smallpox vaccine formulated in 1902 and discovered that it was actually some sort of horse related virus, not a cow virus. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fi...thought-it-was

The silly bit here is that 1902 is more than 100 years after the first smallpox vaccine. During that 100 plus years, the vaccine was manufactured in multiple ways by multiple people around the world. There was no consistency at all. If they had found a vial from another country which was mixed up in 1860 it would probably have a completely different selection of viruses.

Note that they skip over the part about the vaccine being contaminated with dozens of other bits and pieces...

I love vaccine fantasies.
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#53 of 166 Old 12-06-2017, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm interested in what is happening with the dengue vaccine.

1) It is clear that there was an attempt to deny and cover-up concerns about dangers resulting from the vaccine
2) Nevertheless, after 700,000 were vaccinated, the info came out
3) This story of vaccine cover-up and possible mass injury is being discussed on mainstream medical web-sites

My question: is this evidence that the system works?

Sort of.
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#54 of 166 Old 12-07-2017, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Huge political fallout, big mess, hints that some people insisted on the vaccine being used (were they bribed?) lots of finger-pointing AND at the very end of the article, concern that this blow-up will undermine trust in other vaccines.

Reminds me of the HPV vaccine problems. How many HPV families have ended up doing research on vaccination in general and losing trust?

http://opinion.inquirer.net/109293/calm-panic-dengvaxia
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#55 of 166 Old 12-07-2017, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another article http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-...-vaccine-scare
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#56 of 166 Old 12-14-2017, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The concern over the dengue vaccine mess is slipping towards concern over undermining "trust" in vaccines and vaccine programs and vaccine manufacturers and vaccine regulators. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...gvaxia-fallout

Quote:
Who's to blame?

For Lanard the question of who is responsible for the current mess in the Philippines comes down to two questions: Who knew what when, and what risks were Filipino parents told before their children were vaccinated?
"If Sanofi actually knew no more and no less than all the other experts who worried about the potential for antibody-dependent enhanced dengue in dengue-naive vaccinated persons, and if it told the Filipino government what it knew (and didn't know), then I would definitely hold the Filipino government responsible for a premature massive vaccination campaign," she said.
"I would particularly hold the government responsible if the Filipino government failed to warn parents that dengue-naive children might be at elevated risk for a severe future dengue infection."
"There is absolutely no way the Filipino government can claim they didn't know about the potential for ADE-dengue in some vaccinated children," Lanard said. "They only have a claim against Sanofi if they can prove that Sanofi dishonestly reassured them that this worry had no basis."
For Marc Lipsitch, DPhil, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard University, who is to blame is of less concern than the possible repercussions of the Dengvaxia fallout.
"Of course the fear is that this can add fuel to the anti-vaccine movement," Lipsitch said.
And unlike previous anti-vaccine arguments, there's evidence that Dengevaxia could increase harm to some recipients.
No real fear that many thousands of children could be at risk of severe disease. The big fear is that the screw-up will cause distrust of vaccines.
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#57 of 166 Old 12-16-2017, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Where is all the money coming from for these studies about marketing HPV vaccines? https://news.yale.edu/2017/12/15/opp...-alarming-rate

Quote:
“We wanted to identify and describe in detail the missed opportunities for administering the HPV vaccine to young adult women,” said senior author Sangini Sheth, M.D. “Most studies about missed opportunities for administering the HPV vaccine have focused on adolescents (13-17), but there is still an important role for providers in vaccinating young adult women (18-26) for HPV, especially when the national vaccination rates are lower than the target goals. What we found was that two-thirds of young women had had at least one missed clinical opportunity to receive HPV vaccine, with an average of 1.3 missed opportunities per person.”
The researchers analyzed the medical records of non-immunized women aged 18-26 who sought care at an urban, hospital-based obstetrics and gynecology clinic over a one year period (Feb. 2013–Jan. 2014). They identified the “missed opportunity” visits as postpartum check-ups, sexually transmitted disease screenings, or appointments for contraceptives. Of patients with at least one missed opportunity, 26.5% had received an injectable medication or other vaccine as part of their treatment.
Anytime that a human body enters a medical facility, they are supposed to be a target for a vaccine or a drug. Profits?
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#58 of 166 Old 02-09-2018, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When the science doesn't actually support vaccination policies, the New York Times just lies about the science. https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2018/...ew-york-times/

Quote:
Furthermore, recall that the CDC’s primary justifications for its policy are that vaccination reduces transmission as well as the risk of serious complications. Aaron Carroll would evidently have his readers believe that the Cochrane reviews he cites show that science has confirmed these assumptions.
They do not.
On the contrary, what the Cochrane researchers found was that the existing studies showed only “a very limited effect” on working days lost and morbidity, “no effect” on hospitalization, and “no evidence that vaccines prevent viral transmission or complications.” (Emphasis added.)
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#59 of 166 Old 02-09-2018, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just came across a new study about shingles outbreaks in vaxed children. https://scienmag.com/chicken-pox-vac...some-children/

This doesn't seem to bode well for the long term outcomes of vaccinating to prevent chickenpox and shingles. If healthy, well-nourished children are getting shingles? This is supposed to be a disease of old age.

Will there be more in teens? Even more as adults? And huge amounts in the elderly?



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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post

Found this in an old thread, a series of VAERS reports of people who were exposed to shedding CP vaccine and proceeded to develop shingles a week to two weeks later. https://www.mothering.com/forum/47-va...l#post18514002

I've come across stories about this and I'm really wishing that some brave scientist would stick their neck out and do a study.

There is an assumption that vaccine virus acts the same way the wild virus does except for reduced virulence, but is that assumption correct? For example, in the case of the vaccine version of the poliovirus, there have been situations where the virus "escaped" and not only became more virulent but mutated into a new strain. The wild poliovirus seems to be pretty stable, on the other hand. So there is one example of the vaccine virus doing something unexpected.
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#60 of 166 Old 02-13-2018, 07:02 AM
 
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2010 raport from Cochrane Collaboration says flu vaccines doesn't provide any benefit

Quote:
Plain language summary
Over 200 viruses cause influenza and influenza-like illness which produce the same symptoms (fever, headache, aches and pains, cough and runny noses). Without laboratory tests, doctors cannot tell the two illnesses apart. Both last for days and rarely lead to death or serious illness. At best, vaccines might be effective against only influenza A and B, which represent about 10% of all circulating viruses. Each year, the World Health Organization recommends which viral strains should be included in vaccinations for the forthcoming season.
Authors of this review assessed all trials that compared vaccinated people with unvaccinated people. The combined results of these trials showed that under ideal conditions (vaccine completely matching circulating viral configuration) 33 healthy adults need to be vaccinated to avoid one set of influenza symptoms. In average conditions (partially matching vaccine) 100 people need to be vaccinated to avoid one set of influenza symptoms. Vaccine use did not affect the number of people hospitalised or working days lost but caused one case of Guillian-Barré syndrome (a major neurological condition leading to paralysis) for every one million vaccinations. Fifteen of the 36 trials were funded by vaccine companies and four had no funding declaration.
Our results may be an optimistic estimate because company-sponsored influenza vaccines trials tend to produce results favorable to their products and some of the evidence comes from trials carried out in ideal viral circulation and matching conditions and because the harms evidence base is limited..." -
The Cochrane Collaboration (Wiley publication), Tom Jefferson, Carlo Di Pietrantonj, Alessandro Rivetti, Ghada A Bawazeer, Lubna A Al-Ansary, Eliana Ferroni

In 2012 a comprehensive review of 75 randomized control studies in healthy children under 16 years of age was published. Researchers discuss their findings below:
Quote:
“Inactivated vaccines in children aged two years or younger are not significantly more efficacious than placebo… little evidence is available for children younger than two years of age… In specific cases, influenza vaccines were associated with serious harms such as narcolepsy and febrile convulsions. It was surprising to find only one study of inactivated vaccine in children under two years, given current recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months of age in the USA, Canada, parts of Europe and Australia. If immunization in children is to be recommended as a public health policy, large-scale studies assessing important outcomes, and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently required.” -
Jefferson T, Rivetti A, Di Pietrantonj C, Demicheli V, Ferroni E, “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children (Review),” The Cochrane Library, 2012, Issue 8.
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