Corrupt system not just around vaccines - Page 10 - Mothering Forums
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#271 of 430 Old 01-13-2018, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Bow View Post
Had the same experience with frequent recommendations for alternating the doses and reading the same thing i.e. no safety studies.

I see something from the US, warning of that situation in 2000 here;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10790455
Alternating antipyretics: is this an alternative?



There have been some studies since.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../#b10-pch12127

We had one nurse recommending tylenol pm at bedtime for inability to sleep issues for a 10 year old child

On a semi related note
http://time.com/5096715/acetaminophe...nguage-delays/
New Study Links Pregnant Women Taking Acetaminophen with Language Delays in Baby Girls

I haven't read the whole thing yet.
So who or what is behind pushing these drugs? I'm reaching a point around these issues where I no longer believe in any random motion if someone might possibly be profiting.
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#272 of 430 Old 01-14-2018, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bow View Post
Had the same experience with frequent recommendations for alternating the doses and reading the same thing i.e. no safety studies.

I see something from the US, warning of that situation in 2000 here;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10790455
Alternating antipyretics: is this an alternative?



Yes, thank you, that is the one I was looking for.

There have been some studies since.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../#b10-pch12127
From the link immediately above:
Quote:
Fever phobia is widespread. As many as 91% of caregivers believe that elevated temperatures may cause harmful effects, with 85% saying they would awaken their children to administer antipyretics (1).
And who is responsible for that fever phobia? I wouldn't have been sat in the ER in the middle of the night had I not been instructed by doctors to make sure to seek medical attention for any fever in an infant. And since otitis media is an acknowledged adverse event following vaccination, I wonder if the advice to give the infant tylenol before the vaccination is a factor. But yes, blame the parents for the phobia.
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#273 of 430 Old 02-07-2018, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://medium.com/@lifebiomedguru/w...d-d5c20739f237

This one shows horrendous behavior from certain individuals who mercilessly screwed over American veterans...and then went on to screw over American families with vaccine injured children.

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In the 1980s U.S. Congress had mandated Agent Orange Studies. Frank and Coleen ended the studies two years early, insuring that “no link” would be found between illnesses being reported by injured veterans and dioxin. The early termination of the study allowed the US Department of Veterans Affairs to deny any connection Agent Orange and medical problems, preventing veterans and their families from qualifying for compensations. Here’s your hurt, what’s your hurry. The Boyle/Destefano team bamboozle was outed by Admiral Zumwalt, went to the President and laid out the science in a classified report (now declassified):
Both still employed by our very own government!
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#274 of 430 Old 02-09-2018, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://therussells.crossfit.com/201...nstitute-next/

Food industry giants are revamping their strategy. The corporate trusters will say "see, the system works."

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How does ILSI get away with this? It exploits the nonprofit loophole. This loophole, unfortunately, is prevalent in most institutional conflict-of-interest policies. For example, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services would never allow its employees to be board members of junk food or tobacco corporations. Yet they have often served as board members of the International Life Sciences Institute. No academic journal would allow an author to declare no conflicts of interest after listing his email as [email protected]. Yet ILSI authors frequently get away with that. How? Well, ILSI portrays itself as a “nonprofit, worldwide organization whose mission is to provide science that improves human health and well-being and safeguards the environment.”

Furthermore, ILSI funds CDC and NIH employee travel. NIH even funds ILSI events. And that’s just in the U.S. ILSI has penetrated the highest levels of public health agencies in South Africa, Brazil, Malaysia and China. It is quite normal for the world’s high-level public health officials to simultaneously hold leadership positions in the food and tobacco industry’s scientific propaganda arm.
Here’s ILSI’s problem. As long as journalists, doctors, and the public were unaware of its true nature, it could advocate for industry with impunity. But Mars’ departure is calling much more attention to ILSI, just as Campbell Soup’s departure did to the GMA. And more important, in its departure Mars has validated the very message that CrossFit, U.S. Right to Know and other healthy food movement organizations have long shared. Its Vice President of Public Affairs, Matthias Berninger, said.
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#275 of 430 Old 02-18-2018, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2...roups-funding/

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As the nation grapples with a worsening opioid crisis, a new report suggests that drug makers provided substantial funding to patient advocacy groups and physicians in recent years in order to influence the controversial debate over appropriate usage and prescribing.
Specifically, five drug companies funneled nearly $9 million to 14 groups working on chronic pain and issues related to opioid use between 2012 and 2017. At the same time, physicians affiliated with these groups accepted more than $1.6 million from the same companies. In total, the drug makers made more than $10 million in payments since January 2012.
“The fact that these same manufacturers provided millions of dollars to the groups suggests, at the very least, a direct link between corporate donations and the advancement of opioid-friendly messaging,” according to the report released on Monday night by U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill, who has been probing opioid makers and wholesalers.
When money flows, do people cooperate?
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#276 of 430 Old 02-19-2018, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Covering up problems from aluminum http://info.cmsri.org/aluminum-and-y...ans-face-today

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Myth No. 1: We are told aluminum in vaccines is safe because it is rapidly excreted from the body; it is not. It persists for years after injection.
Myth No 2: Public health maintains injected aluminum is localized in the body to the injection site; it is not. Research shows clearly that it is swallowed up by phagocytic cells and migrates via these to other organs and accumulates in the brain where it exerts neurotoxic effects.
Myth No. 3: Public health toxicology says “the dose is the poison” and extremely high doses of aluminum are needed to do damage. This is not true. Dose-response studies show that low doses of the smallest sized particles of aluminum are the most toxic and it obeys “particle toxicology,” not dose-dependent toxicology.
Actually, this really belongs in a pure vaccine related thread, but never mind.
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#277 of 430 Old 03-20-2018, 05:24 PM
 
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This is a documentary regarding a drug trial, in the UK, that went horribly wrong:
100% of the volunteers who received the actual drug ended up in ICU with multiple organ failure. One of these poor souls even had to have amputations.
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#278 of 430 Old 03-26-2018, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...es-study-finds

And what is keeping public agencies and non-profits from creating effective programs to get rid of TB?
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“This study is important to show that preventative measures have great impact,” explained Daniel Carter, research fellow at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.





“We tend to only engage with TB patients when they are already ill, but this is not enough to eliminate TB. Poverty reduction could be just as effective in tackling the disease as drugs and vaccines.”
Carter, who co-authored the study, added: “Science is sexy but poverty elimination is not. If a biomedical tool were to show the same efficacy on TB it would be immediately implemented, but expanding social programmes requires more political will and ambition from health and development leaders.”
Tuberculosis is among the top 10 causes of death worldwide. In 2016, 10.4 million people fell ill with TB and a further 1.7 million died from the disease.
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#279 of 430 Old 03-27-2018, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You've got to wonder who profits from overuse of antibiotics? Someone must because 500,000 deaths a year isn't a minor problem. https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ease-worldwide

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“In high income countries, the most important thing that reduced mortality from infectious disease in the 20th century was infrastructure,” Klein said. “Separating waste from drinking water and chlorinating it was one of the most important things we did.”
Beyond clean water supplies, Klein said vaccination programmes could also help to curb excessive antibiotic use, and so drug-resistant infections. While antibiotics are not effective against viruses, vaccines that protect against the flu and viruses that cause diarrhoeal disease would reduce the number of people being handed antibiotics unnecessarily. “The reality is that a lot of antibiotic overuse is for viral infections,” Klein said.
People are stupid and careless. Therefore we need more vaccinations. Even if the vaccinations don't really work.
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#280 of 430 Old 03-27-2018, 10:46 PM
 
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Probably to make super germs.

Ten years ago I was in a discussion with a doctor who told me not to worry, that the antibiotic over use is being addressed.

As we wait, ... and get sick and die.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#281 of 430 Old 04-06-2018, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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More on the Tylenol issue, trying to debunk any concerns. https://www.romper.com/p/does-infant...st-yet-8638498

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One of these studies not only looked at the metadata, but also examined the tissues themselves for their own study published in Frontiers in Physiology. What they found is interesting. Researchers suggest that ASD isn't just a disorder of the brain, but instead a systemic disorder and that people with ASD have greater oxidative stress levels and that increases inflammation.
These levels of oxidative stress and inflammation could increase the need for acetaminophen, noted the Journal of International Medical Research. The study didn't rule out acetaminophen exposure as a possible trigger, but didn't definitively draw that conclusion either, instead calling for more analysis. It's important to note when looking at this that the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), American Association of Family Physicians (AAFP), and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) still recommend acetaminophen for fever and pain in babies.
Since I'm not a doctor, I recommend breastfeeding, cuddling, and trying to balance out body temperature. Your baby's hot fevered brow may be counterbalanced by icy feet, and an effective treatment could involve warming up the feet to cool down the head. How many doctors know this?
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#282 of 430 Old 04-19-2018, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Forbes had to fire this guy. Once it became obvious. https://usrtk.org/hall-of-shame/why-...*****-on-gmos/

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The emails between ****** and Monsanto’s Eric Sachs show how corporations and writers sometimes work together to promote corporate talking points in ways that are not disclosed to editors or the public.
In the emails, Sachs asked ****** to write about the decision by the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) to classify glyphosate as a probable human carcinogen. ****** replied, “I would be if I could start from a high-quality draft.” Sachs provided what he called a “still quite rough” draft, which he described to ****** as “a good start for your magic.” The draft appeared a few days later, largely unchanged, in this Forbes column that appeared under Miller’s name.
Retraction Watch quoted Mia Carbonell, senior VP of global communications at Forbes, on why Forbes has removed Miller’s work from its site:
“All contributors to Forbes.com sign a contract requiring them to disclose any potential conflicts of interest and only publish content that is their own original writing. When it came to our attention that Mr. ****** violated these terms, we removed all of his posts from Forbes.com and ended our relationship with him.”
Forbes also removed articles co-bylined by ****** and allies including Julie Kelly, Kavin Senapathy and Bruce Chassy – all of whom have claimed independence while writing in defense of pesticides and GMOs.
He has also worked for a group that is a leader in muddying the climate change issue.

I'm sure he is pro-vaccine, but he may be too obvious a shill for Merck to want to hire him.

All the things with the *** are actually his name M*I*L*L*E*R which is, for some mysterious reason, always replaced by *. Weird!
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Last edited by Deborah; 04-20-2018 at 07:31 PM. Reason: to explain the appearance of *******
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#283 of 430 Old 04-20-2018, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is a fun little article pointing to some serious problems around science. https://www.healthnewsreview.org/201...93b9-105883049

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You could rightly accuse me of being predictable when I say that following the money has gotten trickier in health care journalism; that pharma as a lobbyist makes the auto industry of the post-war years look like a wimp, and that if I had a dime for every sensationalistic health story I read that forgot to mention the research was actually based on mice … well … I’d be writing this sentence from a beach in the South Pacific.
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#284 of 430 Old 04-28-2018, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This article has a whole round-up of yucky stuff happening in the medical field https://www.medpagetoday.com/hospita...practice/72495

My favorite is the last item.
Quote:
Where Government, Advocacy and Pharma Meet: Patrick Kennedy
Former U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy -- and son of the late Sen. Ted Kennedy -- joined President Trump's opioid commission, served as CEO of a behavioral health nonprofit, and sits on the board of eight pharmaceutical corporations, Politico reports.
"The many entanglements make Kennedy a one-man nexus of government, private-sector and patient-advocacy work, which he defends as an expression of his lifelong goal to erase the stigma surrounding mental health and addiction," the political news site said.
Kennedy has not registered as a lobbyist, and is paid handsomely for speeches, raising classic questions about where the line lies between quid pro quo and donors supporting someone's ideas. The Kennedy Forum discloses 39 sponsors, among them Eli Lilly, Janssen and PhRMA.
Guess which Kennedy is a target of relentless attacks?
I did find some attacks on Patrick, but they aren't nearly as harsh as what we see directed at the environmentalist vaccine critic. Wonder why? examples:
https://www.politico.com/states/new-...n-firms-368780

All about his foundation. Is it for sale? https://www.braeburnpharmaceuticals....ick-j-kennedy/

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/03/...grich-kennedy/

Trying to block legalization of marijuana https://www.thenation.com/article/an...-big-bankroll/
Quote:
Given that CADCA is dedicated to protecting society from dangerous drugs, the event that day had a curious sponsor: Purdue Pharma, the manufacturer of Oxy-Contin, the highly addictive painkiller that nearly ruined Kennedy’s congressional career and has been linked to thousands of overdose deaths nationwide.
Prescription opioids, a line of pain-relieving medications derived from the opium poppy or produced synthetically, are the most dangerous drugs abused in America, with more than 16,000 deaths annually linked to opioid addiction and overdose. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that more Americans now die from painkillers than from heroin and cocaine combined. The recent uptick in heroin use around the country has been closely linked to the availability of prescription opioids, which give their users a similar high and can trigger a heroin craving in recovering addicts. (Notably, there are no known deaths related to marijuana, although there have been instances of impaired driving.)
https://digboston.com/friend-of-the-...f-the-problem/

Quote:
All of which amounts to Kennedy either being a complete fraud, who understands that he’s a shill for questionable companies and a front group led by docs who lie about the harm of cannabis, or just a total dummy, who doesn’t pay any attention to which special interests are actually funding his pet projects. Let alone the background of products like Oxycontin, whose marketers spent hundreds of millions of dollars peddling poison while politicians like Kennedy sat idly.

And let’s face it. Without the Kennedy name, Patrick’s just another two-bit prohibitionist claiming that weed is addictive and pushing junk science for a sham organization. It’s an undeserving air of legitimacy, and it’s part of the problem.
This is the harshest criticism I found.

This is one of the most sympathetic articles I found on the vaccine criticizing Kennedy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.31324933832e

Quote:
Then came the backlash. Critics charged Kennedy with quoting material out of context. Rolling Stone had to make corrections. Enough doubts were raised that Salon eventually retracted the story. Unbowed, Kennedy stands by the piece and admits to only a few inconsequential errors.
As the applause turned to denunciation, Kennedy simply doubled down.


The more Kennedy talked on the subject, the
more his rhetoric became hyperbolic. During one 2011 segment on his Air America radio show, he accused government scientists of being “involved in a massive fraud.” He said they skewed studies to demonstrate the safety of thimerosal. “I can see that this fraud is doing extraordinary damage to the brains of American children,” he said.
Last year, he gave the keynote speech at an anti-vaccine gathering in Chicago. There, he said of a scientist who is a vocal proponent of vaccines and already the object of much hate mail from anti-vaccine activists that this scientist and others like him, “should be in jail, and the key should be thrown away.”
Last summer I reported on these inflammatory comments for the Discover magazine Web site, where I have a blog. (I write often about contentious issues in science.) I concluded that Kennedy “has done as much as anyone to spread unwarranted fear and crazy conspiracy theories about vaccines.”
A few days later, Kennedy called. “I’m trying to figure out whether you are a shill for Big Pharma,” he said straight away. He then talked without pause, reprising the claims made in his Rolling Stone article, which I learned he had expanded into a book manuscript.
After talking nonstop for nearly an hour, Kennedy asked if I would be willing to look at the manuscript. I said yes. But I told him that I was extremely dubious. I wasn’t the only skeptical one. When he sent his manuscript to friends and colleagues, asking in a cover letter “for your advice and support,” the silence was crushing.
Most of those who did respond were dismissive. Philip Landrigan, a leading public health advocate and physician who heads the Children’s Environmental Health Center at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, offered a reply that stung. “We were buddies,” Kennedy said. “I got a curt note back from him, saying, ‘This isn’t worthwhile, and this is an effort you should immediately abandon.’ ”
Kennedy remained defiant. “The only way I can stop this is if someone shows me I’m wrong on the science.”
He kept me apprised of his efforts. In September he got a “terse” letter from the National Vaccine Program Office, acknowledging that this is a complex issue but that there was no evidence that thimerosal in vaccines is harmful.
Irva Hertz-Picciotto, an epidemiologist and professor at the University of California’s Mind Institute in Davis, was one of the few scientists willing to read Kennedy’s manuscript. “It’s a mixed bag,” she said to me over the phone. She believed that Kennedy had stacked the book with too many problematic studies that he cites as evidence of thimerosal’s contribution to neurodevelopmental disorders. “But it is not true that there is a body of scientific evidence that has put this question to rest, as the CDC asserts.” In fact, on a possible connection between autism and thimerosal, she said, “I think the question still remains to be answered.”
Most of the material I saw was incredibly nasty and harsh. I won't link to it.
Interesting contrast.
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#285 of 430 Old 05-05-2018, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/atten...-dennis-ma-rp/

Lyme disease. The denial of the real problem began with a vaccine, but has rolled relentlessly onward.

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So here we are in 2018 and we have tens of millions suffering with chronic Lyme disease. Decades later, we are still battling for medical recognition of this illness, an accurate case definition, proper testing, along with humane care and treatment for men, women and children around the globe. Care for those who are suffering beyond description––many of whom are slowly dying––while mainstream medicine continues to turn its back and deny the very existence of this vector-borne illness.
Sure looks like corruption to me.
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#286 of 430 Old 05-22-2018, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Merck is still pushing this drug. A good friend told me that her doctor recommended it, but she did her independent research and said "no way". http://vaccineimpact.com/2018/mercks...nes-and-drugs/


Quote:
We uninformed physicians, thanks to Merck’s deceptive tactics, ignorantly but energetically prescribed the drug for decades, thus inadvertently also deceiving our patients, some of whom suffered the permanently devastating disease called (Fosamax-induced) osteonecrosis of the jaw, an incurable disease that only came to light when thousands of dentists did otherwise standard dental extractions on Fosamax patients and then found that the extraction sites never healed, sometimes actually resulting in incurable infections, chronic pain and even fractures.
1,200 of those osteonecrosis patients are still waiting for compensation a decade or two after the connections were proven and lawsuits were filed. Sociopathic entities like Big Pharma’s drug- and vaccine-making corporations are in the habit of making cunning use of their lawyers, cruelly threatening their victims, delaying court hearings, trying to settle out of court with low-ball dollar figures and then refusing to pay court-ordered settlements until the plaintiffs give up or die. See more on the Fosamax lawsuits.
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#287 of 430 Old 05-24-2018, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.rutlandherald.com/article...erage-lacking/
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Eventually, we will carve an epitaph on that monument, a joyless acknowledgement of a mistake too long in the fixing. Like leaded gasoline, DDT, asbestos, PCBs, and other false blessings, fluoridation will take its place among industry’s bad actors. At best, it will serve as a cautionary tale for future generations seeking to harness public policy to the public good.

the tone of the comments supporting water fluoridation is so similar to the tone of comments supporting GMOs and the tone of comments supporting vaccines...you'd almost think the people behind all three have hired the same PR firms!
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#288 of 430 Old 05-24-2018, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Treating depression with drugs is immensely profitable. http://kellybroganmd.com/amindofyourown/
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Recent years have seen a shocking increase in antidepressant use the world over, with 1 in 4 women starting their day with medication. But the truth is, what women really need can’t be found at a pharmacy.
According to Dr. Kelly Brogan, antidepressants not only overpromise and underdeliver, but their use may permanently disable the body’s self-healing potential.
We need a new paradigm: The best way to heal the mind is to heal the whole body.
But the doctor makes money from her book, so you can't trust her. Better to trust GSK!
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#289 of 430 Old 05-24-2018, 09:38 PM
 
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Have you guys checked out holistic mental health treatment from alloflife.org ?
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Melissa Wife to DH
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. We are a homebirthing, no vax, intact, devoutly LDS happy family!
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#290 of 430 Old 05-25-2018, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you guys checked out holistic mental health treatment from alloflife.org ?
Thanks.
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#291 of 430 Old 05-27-2018, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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One of those points that should have been determined before dosing billions of people with these goodies, doncha think? https://www.theweek.in/health/quicks...d-obesity.html
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People switch to zero-calorie artificial sweeteners such as aspartame and acesulfame potassium to limit their sugar intake. These are among the most common food additives worldwide, and is found in diet and zero-calorie sodas and other products. But, a US study presented at the Experimental Biology 2018 meeting have linked artificial sweeteners to obesity and an increased risk of diabetes.
The researchers looked at biochemical changes in the body after consumption of sugar or sugar substitutes, as well as their impact on vascular health by examining how they affected the lining of blood vessels.
The studies, which were done in rats and cell cultures, showed that artificial sweeteners change how the body processes fat and gets its energy. Also, acesulfame potassium seemed to accrue in the blood, and higher concentrations had a more harmful effect on the cells that line blood vessels.
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#292 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 01:08 AM
 
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This is an interesting article regarding health insurance:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...your-big-bills

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#293 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Too simplistic idea of how to sort out a complex and severely messed up system. Read this book. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/b...rosenthal.html for a thorough analysis of why health care costs in the US have skyrocketed. Health insurance is a factor, but not the only factor.


Quote:
Where Rosenthal’s account falls short is in explaining why this deeply broken system persists. Early on, Rosenthal seems to side with Speaker Ryan and Senator Paul, describing “the very idea of health insurance” as “in some ways the original sin that catalyzed the evolution of today’s medical-industrial complex.” But, as Rosenthal (too briefly) discusses, countries where people are much better insured don’t have anything like our self-dealing, upside-down incentives and outrageous costs. Somehow, despite largely keeping citizens’ skin out of the game, other rich democracies manage to have much lower costs per person — as well as greater utilization of physician and hospital services and better basic health measures.
The fact is that people need insurance for the highest costs they face. They may be able to pay for Lasik, a nonessential, nonemergency procedure for which consumers have plenty of time to shop around. But the biggest-ticket items — cancer care, cardiac surgery, organ transplants — are beyond the reach of all but the richest, and not so easy to shop around for when they’re needed. Just as we shouldn’t blame the idea of mortgages for the financial crisis, we shouldn’t blame the idea of health insurance for the health care crisis.
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#294 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 05:15 PM
 
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I agree that it isn't the only factor. I think that it's still an important factor.

I recall, for example, a father who does not believe in health insurance mentioning that his son broke his leg.

When he got the bill, it seemed rather steep. So he contacted the applicable hospital and doctor etc. When he mentioned that he didn't have health insurance, they basically said: "Oh, you don't have health insurance. Well in that case it's $....", cutting the bill to a third or a quarter of what it originally was.
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#295 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 06:49 PM
 
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When he got the bill, it seemed rather steep. So he contacted the applicable hospital and doctor etc. When he mentioned that he didn't have health insurance, they basically said: "Oh, you don't have health insurance. Well in that case it's $....", cutting the bill to a third or a quarter of what it originally was.
Exactly! That has been my experience while raising my own children and going to the doctor myself. People do not know that. I have always been able to negotiate a bill down. And I have always paid my bills.

Dentists also.

Everything is negotiable. Everything.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#296 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 06:53 PM
 
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Let me add very parenthetically that I had insurance with only my second child. With the third, I thought I had insurance with my husband's work; I did not ask for it, but the HR person gave my husband the paperwork for filing a claim. I read it over and it did not have maternity coverage. The company took it out. So be careful of that.

And the birth was not complicated at all. I paid out of pocket for everything, including the pediatrician.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.

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#297 of 430 Old 05-28-2018, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Tweety_Bird View Post
I agree that it isn't the only factor. I think that it's still an important factor.

I recall, for example, a father who does not believe in health insurance mentioning that his son broke his leg.

When he got the bill, it seemed rather steep. So he contacted the applicable hospital and doctor etc. When he mentioned that he didn't have health insurance, they basically said: "Oh, you don't have health insurance. Well in that case it's $....", cutting the bill to a third or a quarter of what it originally was.
Yes, insurance as it is currently run is an important factor. Rosenthal, in the book I cited, lists a number of factors that boost costs. At this point, removing just one piece, insurance, won't be enough to sort out a disastrous, interlocking mess.

It is possible to negotiate costs down and that is one thing that Rosenthal strongly recommends. She explains how to search for lower priced care and how to get the bill down afterwards. But she does point out that individual actions are not going to be enough to change an entrenched system.

The insurance factor isn't working as described, anyway. Everyone gets hit with co-pays and percentages. My broken ankle, even though I had excellent insurance, cost me well over $3,000. I wasn't in a good position to negotiate in advance, but the hospital offered me a break after a while, so I think I ended up paying "only" a couple thousand.



Between the monthly insurance payment that most people now have to come up with and the direct payments demanded for medical care, the outrageous costs are no longer invisible except for the very wealthiest people. Unfortunately, few people have any idea of how to fight back.
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#298 of 430 Old 05-29-2018, 11:47 PM
 
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You might have already seen this. Even Snopes confirms that it's true:


https://www.straightdope.com/columns...-iron-filings/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wh...cause-it-iron/

Wouldn't want to have to worry about minor details, such as whether the iron is biologically available to the body.
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#299 of 430 Old 05-30-2018, 08:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tweety_Bird View Post
You might have already seen this. Even Snopes confirms that it's true:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWbThJpGXc

https://www.straightdope.com/columns...-iron-filings/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wh...cause-it-iron/

Wouldn't want to have to worry about minor details, such as whether the iron is biologically available to the body.
Yes. My home treatment for iron deficiency anemia is a spoonful of molasses washed down with OJ daily. Unless a person is diabetic or has hidden internal bleeding, that clears up any iron deficiency in a week. Too simple? Yes. I guess. But it works. Honest. My DH and DS both had a hereditary inclination to anemia.

Quote:
such as whether the iron is biologically available to the body.
Yes. The most common form of iron given by MD types to patients who are deficient is ferrous sulfate which is hard to absorb by the body, and causes constipation. Ferrous fumerate or gluconate are more easily absorbed into the body and can be found in most HFSs.

And another factoid doctors will not tell you is never take a vitamin E supplement with an iron supplement. They bind each other up and move through the body without being absorbed so it would be a complete waste.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.

Last edited by applejuice; 05-30-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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#300 of 430 Old 05-30-2018, 11:41 AM
 
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Yes. My home treatment for iron deficiency anemia is a spoonful of molasses washed down with OJ daily. Unless a person is diabetic or has hidden internal bleeding, that clears up any iron deficiency in a week. Too simple? Yes. I guess. But it works. Honest. My DH and DS both had a hereditary inclination to anemia.

Wow! During my last pregnancy, I developed a strange craving for molasses--eating a couple spoonfuls a day from an old bottle I found in the back of the pantry. When it ran out, I went to the store and bought more. I had chalked it up to a pregnancy-induced sweet tooth. DH thought it was so funny. But perhaps it was a way of getting the iron I needed?
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