Corrupt system not just around vaccines - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Or Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap.
Are there reports of long-lasting illnesses following use of Dr. Bronner's Soap?
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#92 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 09:03 AM
 
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Are there reports of long-lasting illnesses following use of Dr. Bronner's Soap?
No, just the promise that "for on God's Spaceship Earth, with Bomb & Gun, we're All-One or none! All one! All one! Exceptions eternally? Absolutely none!"

I'm trying to imagine all of that on a vaccine vial, but there's no room with all of the warnings and ingredients.

Yes. Sadly, I did grab the bulk-rate Dr. Bronner's from the bathroom cabinet in order to transcribe that.
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#93 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 09:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
No, just the promise that "for on God's Spaceship Earth, with Bomb & Gun, we're All-One or none! All one! All one! Exceptions eternally? Absolutely none!"

I'm trying to imagine all of that on a vaccine vial, but there's no room with all of the warnings and ingredients.

Yes. Sadly, I did grab the bulk-rate Dr. Bronner's from the bathroom cabinet in order to transcribe that.
Alas, we would like to use Dr Bonners, but like so many other products, it too contains corn. Makes me wonder: do vaccines contain corn? I wouldn't be surprised.

Back to your regularly scheduled program. :-D

Sus
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#94 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, clearly we need to be protected from soap with weird propaganda printed on the label, but no one needs to be protected from vaccines with weird propaganda in the news.

Did I really say that?
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#95 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 10:47 AM
 
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Alas, we would like to use Dr Bonners, but like so many other products, it too contains corn. Makes me wonder: do vaccines contain corn? I wouldn't be surprised.

Back to your regularly scheduled program. :-D

Sus
It's non-GMO. I'm good with that. Mostly I ignore the incoherent bottle label, but it's fun to pull it out for the occasional amusement.

Back on topic, while Minnesota roasts with unusually high temperatures and India faced a deadly heatwave in April, the Koch brothers are still funding global warming inaction.

Lotsa corruption afoot.

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#96 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
It's non-GMO. I'm good with that. Mostly I ignore the incoherent bottle label, but it's fun to pull it out for the occasional amusement.

Back on topic, while Minnesota roasts with unusually high temperatures and India faced a deadly heatwave in April, the Koch brothers are still funding global warming inaction.

Lotsa corruption afoot.
As "science" rejecters, we aren't supposed to believe in global warming.

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#97 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
It's non-GMO. I'm good with that. Mostly I ignore the incoherent bottle label, but it's fun to pull it out for the occasional amusement.

Back on topic, while Minnesota roasts with unusually high temperatures and India faced a deadly heatwave in April, the Koch brothers are still funding global warming inaction.

Lotsa corruption afoot.
Their website calling out what ingredients came from where is pretty good! Usually you have to call a company to get that kind of information. If we could do any corn, it'd be good enough for me too ;-).

I can't read the links. That kind of stuff is just too depressing.

Sus

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#98 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 02:01 PM
 
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As "science" rejecters, we aren't supposed to believe in global warming.
OK, I'll fess up. The sky fairy presiding over my flat, geocentric planet informed me via tinfoil-hat communication that global warming is a hoax.

Actually, that wouldn't be too likely, now, would it?

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#99 of 430 Old 05-09-2016, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, I'll fess up. The sky fairy presiding over my flat, geocentric planet informed me via tinfoil-hat communication that global warming is a hoax.

Actually, that wouldn't be too likely, now, would it?
That is funny. Whatever it is that brings people to question vaccines, it doesn't make them easy to classify!
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#100 of 430 Old 05-13-2016, 03:04 PM
 
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Dr Humpheries -
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It would be nice if the corruption in the vaccine industry and government was simple. But it's not. It extends much farther than Thompson and the CDC and has been around and building for a long time. If you want a more full and complex understanding of the problems, it requires time. My full version of "Manufactured Consent" covers the measles misinformation and some players that you may not have heard of. Complete with PMID numbers for your reference.
This talk took me nearly a year to put together and is full of information.
Wonder how those parent information forms are done?
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#101 of 430 Old 05-16-2016, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Video with David Healy exploring how drug companies manipulate data and information so that doctors, regulators and the public can't make good decisions.

This evil doctor wants us to believe anecdotes, how horrific!

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#102 of 430 Old 05-19-2016, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is an absolutely perfect example of how business is triumphing over even a tiny slice of good sense. http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philp...ide-toxic-bees

How long can it take to stop a disastrous decline and die off of honey-bees? Forever, if the pesticide manufacturers can manage it.
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Marketed by European chemical giants Syngenta and Bayer, neonics are the most widely used insecticides both in the United States and globally. In 2009, the agency commenced a long, slow process of reassessing them—not as a class, but rather one by one (there are five altogether). Meanwhile, tens of millions of acres of farmland are treated with neonics each year, and the health of US honeybee hives continues to be dismal.

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Last edited by Deborah; 05-19-2016 at 08:47 AM.
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#103 of 430 Old 06-02-2016, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just ran across another nifty example http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/new...new-gmo-report

Quote:
A peer-reviewed study published last year detailed the concerns of hundreds of expert scientists who concluded that there is no “scientific consensus” on GMO safety. While that’s not diametrically opposite to what NRC said, it sends a far different message than last week’s headlines.
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#104 of 430 Old 06-02-2016, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wanted to point out that this single thread has come up with multiple conspiracies, all of which have harmed individuals and the environment and have benefited various corporations and governmental agencies.

Weirdly, so far, no one has yelled "silly conspiracy theorists" at the thread.

I'm coming to the sad conclusion that major conspiracies are actually quite common and that most of them are successful, sometimes for very long periods of time.

For example, Monsanto and Dow conspired to make herbicides and pesticides essential parts of restoration projects. They've made millions, if not billions off of this conspiracy. Although a few people are pointing out what is going on, it hasn't made a dent in the situation because the "scientific consensus" as created by Monsanto and Dow rolls merrily along.

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#105 of 430 Old 06-04-2016, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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https://www.chelseagreen.com/clear-river-press

I'm currently reading Altered Genes, Twisted Truth by Stephen M. Druker. This makes all the other nasty conspiracies listed in this thread look like child's play.

Fascinating and horrifying and very convincing.

To provide one example, when the FDA was creating this policy http://fas.org/biosecurity/education...red-crops.html they had multiple comments from top FDA scientists stating that these crops were not safe, were not similar to the results of normal plant breeding processes, etc. All of this input was removed from the final document and ignored by administrators who were committed to getting these foods on the market ASAP.

Just another example of how scientists simply don't control policy.

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#106 of 430 Old 06-04-2016, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A discussion of the book and the concerns being raised is here http://www.gmwatch.org/news/latest-n...d-over-gm-food

Quote:
Those files revealed that GM foods first achieved commercialisation in 1992 only because the FDA:
* Covered up the extensive warnings of its own scientists about their dangers
* Lied about the facts.
* And then violated federal food safety law by permitting these foods to be marketed without having been proven safe through standard testing.

The book points out that if the FDA had heeded its own experts’ advice and publicly acknowledged their warnings that GM foods entailed higher risks than their conventional counterparts, the GM food venture would have imploded and never gained traction anywhere.
FDA documents available here http://3dd.816.myftpupload.com/24-fda-documents/

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#107 of 430 Old 06-05-2016, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And then there is the scandal of big corporations pushing baby formula in the developing world. Nestle wins/won the prize, but I'm sure they aren't the only greedy people in this particular game.

Massive numbers of horrific deaths as a result. Unbelievable. http://www.businessinsider.com/nestl...al-2012-6?op=1

Wanted to add that it is possible to bottle feed fairly safely if there is clean water available and the family can afford the formula. This particular discussion is aimed at corporations pushing formula sales in countries and areas where most people cannot bottle feed safely.
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#108 of 430 Old 06-06-2016, 06:43 PM
 
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It is rather strange to me that other developed countries have similar FDA type departments for food safety, yet America is one of the few not partially or fully banning gmos. To my knowledge, Russia is an all out ban on growing for consumption and imports. Australia and Uk severely restricted. What's going on with America? Is it because Monsanto is based here and they're a driving force behind lobbying?

Insights Deborah?
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#109 of 430 Old 06-06-2016, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is rather strange to me that other developed countries have similar FDA type departments for food safety, yet America is one of the few not partially or fully banning gmos. To my knowledge, Russia is an all out ban on growing for consumption and imports. Australia and Uk severely restricted. What's going on with America? Is it because Monsanto is based here and they're a driving force behind lobbying?

Insights Deborah?
Russia hasn't come up yet in the book, but Europe and the UK are described as very lax, ditto Australia and NZ.

The entire story is so outrageous that I'm going to start believing in a flat earth
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#110 of 430 Old 06-08-2016, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bumping up my thread of nasty corporate and government conspiracies, which scientists are totally helpless to stop, control or out, just in case one of the people who have huge trust in authority want to respond to some of the real stuff that is going on.

Won't hold my breath
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#111 of 430 Old 06-09-2016, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did Merck conspire to cheat Gilead? Will Merck win in the end after a couple of appeals, despite unethical behavior? http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...nap-story.html

Quote:
She described the company’s behavior as “systematic and outrageous deception in conjunction with unethical business practices and litigation misconduct.” That conduct included “lying to Pharmasset, misusing Pharmasset’s confidential information, breaching confidentiality and firewall agreements, and lying under oath at deposition and trial.”
This does make the whistleblower case against Merck over the MMR (mumps portion) seem quite reasonable. A company that goes in for "systematic and outrageous deception" in one area is probably game to do the same in other areas.
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#112 of 430 Old 06-15-2016, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
https://www.chelseagreen.com/clear-river-press

I'm currently reading Altered Genes, Twisted Truth by Stephen M. Druker. This makes all the other nasty conspiracies listed in this thread look like child's play.

Fascinating and horrifying and very convincing.

To provide one example, when the FDA was creating this policy http://fas.org/biosecurity/education...red-crops.html they had multiple comments from top FDA scientists stating that these crops were not safe, were not similar to the results of normal plant breeding processes, etc. All of this input was removed from the final document and ignored by administrators who were committed to getting these foods on the market ASAP.

Just another example of how scientists simply don't control policy.
I'm almost done with this book. It is a sort of case study on how to corrupt scientific organizations, government agencies and the press. Successfully. I'll probably start a separate thread just for this book, because the use of GMOs to manufacture vaccines has most likely not been properly tested either.
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#113 of 430 Old 06-15-2016, 11:25 AM
 
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It is a sort of case study on how to corrupt ... the press.
I will look for that book.

I have many old Prevention and Organic Gardening magazines from the 1950s forward. There are plenty of jokes about how poor J.I.Rodale died; his son Robert died in a traffic accident in Moscow as his publications were moving into the former Soviet Union - now his daughter, Maria, keeps the company going. I do not fault her as she has a business to run and business needs $ to meet the competition and the changing times, but one has to wonder how the far pharmaceutical arms reach to change the tone and viewpoint of a well-known publication. There are lots of ads for OTCs.

I worked in a library 40 yrs ago; I recall being told by a nurse and later by a certified nutritionist that Prevention was considered a quack magazine. I have always subscribed for the recipes. 40 yrs later, I am still here and healthy.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#114 of 430 Old 06-15-2016, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Profitable, but very dangerous drugs. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2089...rugs-on-women/

And how do they get women to comply and doctors to prescribe? Organizations funded by pharmaceutical companies make it work.
Quote:
Drugs said to help women with bone loss come with a slew of horrible side effects and have even been shown to cause the problem they are supposed to fix. So we have reason to be wary when multiple bone associations issue a joint press release calling “untreated osteoporosis” a “public health crisis,” as they did last month. These associations, funded by pharmaceutical companies, have every reason to lament that women are not treating their bones with medications; unfortunately, those reasons are more tied to making money than to improving women’s health.
Let's remember to link this thread any time someone yells "silly conspiracy theory" or "flat-earth society" at us.
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#115 of 430 Old 06-24-2016, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bumping up this thread because of multiple mentions of conspiracy theories. People continue to imply or even outright state that the only reason people distrust vaccines is because they are crazy conspiracy theory nuts.

You aren't nuts if there really is a conspiracy. This one thread has a couple of dozen.
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#116 of 430 Old 07-01-2016, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We continue to get people arguing that vaccination policy is based on the science. As the numerous conspiracies outlined in this thread demonstrate, scientists don't make policy. So claiming that our vaccination policy in the US is based on science is an oxymoron. There are a lot of factors that go into regulations and laws and science, if it enters into the discussion at all, plays a minor role.
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#117 of 430 Old 07-01-2016, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another fun example. How did we get to this point? I can't see scientists or epidemiologists or doctors actually saying:

"Let's dump many thousands of new chemicals into the environment and expose all the babies, starting before they are born and just assume they are all safe until they are actually proven to be harmful."

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/EHP358/

Quote:
Based on these findings, we assert that the current system in the United States for evaluating scientific evidence and making health-based decisions about environmental chemicals is fundamentally broken. To help reduce the unacceptably high prevalence of neurodevelopmental disorders in our children, we must eliminate or significantly reduce exposures to chemicals that contribute to these conditions. We must adopt a new framework for assessing chemicals that have the potential to disrupt brain development and prevent the use of those that may pose a risk. This consensus statement lays the foundation for developing recommendations to monitor, assess, and reduce exposures to neurotoxic chemicals. These measures are urgently needed if we are to protect healthy brain development so that current and future generations can reach their fullest potential.
We have a system that, at best, just drifts, and at worst actively hides harm to protect profits.

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#118 of 430 Old 07-02-2016, 06:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Another fun example. How did we get to this point? I can't see scientists or epidemiologists or doctors actually saying:

"Let's dump many thousands of new chemicals into the environment and expose all the babies, starting before they are born and just assume they are all safe until they are actually proven to be harmful."

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/EHP358/



We have a system that, at best, just drifts, and at worst actively hides harm to protect profits.
And, in other places, we have a complete lack of system.

I picture myself being buried in a casket filled entirely with unused prescriptions. Because, in addition to all the prescriptions people get, and use, and pee out all the excess, there are so many that are the wrong one, the wrong strength, not completely finished...most people just dump them out, but, either way, they wind up in the water supply.

In my town, a conscientious green kinda place we have curbside recycling. And people sort and wash out their cans and place them out in the special cans for a company that has been often cited for dumping all the trash and recyclables together to take to the landfill. But at least we have the illusion of trying, which is what matters, I guess.

However, for household chemicals and pharmaceuticals, as well as various other hazards, there's no system. Sure, every once in a while someone does a collection. But mostly people just trash the stuff.

And agricultural runoff, including hormones and antibiotics...
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#119 of 430 Old 07-02-2016, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by SchoolmarmDE View Post
And, in other places, we have a complete lack of system.

I picture myself being buried in a casket filled entirely with unused prescriptions. Because, in addition to all the prescriptions people get, and use, and pee out all the excess, there are so many that are the wrong one, the wrong strength, not completely finished...most people just dump them out, but, either way, they wind up in the water supply.

In my town, a conscientious green kinda place we have curbside recycling. And people sort and wash out their cans and place them out in the special cans for a company that has been often cited for dumping all the trash and recyclables together to take to the landfill. But at least we have the illusion of trying, which is what matters, I guess.

However, for household chemicals and pharmaceuticals, as well as various other hazards, there's no system. Sure, every once in a while someone does a collection. But mostly people just trash the stuff.

And agricultural runoff, including hormones and antibiotics...
Economic "efficiency" has long been based on not dealing with the waste products and other indirect costs.
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#120 of 430 Old 07-02-2016, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here is a great one involving the CDC! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey-..._10760490.html

Quote:
But a report by a consultant to WHO found that ILSI was infiltrating WHO and FAO with scientists, money and research to garner favor for industry products and strategies. ILSI was also accused of attempting to undermine WHO tobacco control efforts on behalf of the tobacco industry.

WHO eventually distanced itself from ILSI. But questions about ILSI influence erupted again this spring when scientists affiliated with ILSI participated in an evaluation of the controversial herbicide glyphosate, issuing a decision favorable to Monsanto Co. and the pesticide industry.
ILSI is the International Life Sciences Institute.

And here they are supporting tobacco science...literally! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119783/

Quote:
The WHO document, which has been published on its website this week, said that tobacco companies have attempted to undermine tobacco control efforts over the past few decades and that one of the ways they do this is to fund and become involved in “seemingly” unbiased scientific groups, therefore “manipulating the political and scientific debate concerning tobacco and health.”
It goes on to use the institute as an example and suggests that the institute was used by certain tobacco companies to try to “thwart tobacco control actions.”
Sure are a lot of real life conspirators around, many of them very well paid.
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