Corrupt system not just around vaccines - Page 6 - Mothering Forums
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#151 of 430 Old 09-16-2016, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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AND SOMETIMES CORRUPTION DOES INCLUDE VACCINES

http://ahrp.org/former-merck-scienti...fficacy-fraud/

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This is a major federal case alleging fraud in vaccine testing; it encapsulates how medical research can be manipulated to achieve desired results, and why it may be wise to question the integrity and the validity of “science-based medicine.”
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#152 of 430 Old 11-20-2016, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.drbuttar.com/coca-crony-s...es-to-the-cdc/

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That Coca-Cola is attempting to use Pratt and ILSI to get to WHO, in an attempt to avoid damage to their overly sugared (and decidedly unhealthy) beverages is just the tip of the iceberg. The company already has plenty of friends at the UN and elsewhere. They are members of the UN Global Compact. This is a kind of global chamber of commerce where corporations sign on to look like good guys as they glad-hand their way into access—to UN officials, government officials, and other movers and shakers worldwide. All the UN asks of them, as members of the Compact, is to promote the agenda of the UN. Bayer was one of the founding members of the Compact and Coca-Cola joined in 2006. PepsiCo¸ and other Big Food, Big Pharma, and Big Ag companies, are also on board.
Linked to top people at the CDC! Anyone having trust issues?

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#153 of 430 Old 11-26-2016, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An example of the "honesty" of the no labeling folks. https://www.organicconsumers.org/new...ney-laundering

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To explain away their blatant attempts to conceal its members' contributions to the "No on 522" campaign, GMA stated it was an "inadvertent technical violation of the State's vague and complex disclosure law … "5
However, "inadvertent technical violation" does not correspond with GMA's actual actions. As The Seattle Times reported, GMA even distributed talking points to its member companies advising them to deny they were funding the anti-I-522 campaign.6 It's not the first time GMA tried to skate responsibility.
Shortly after they eventually revealed the individual donors to their aggressive anti-labeling campaign, GMA sued the state of Washington, arguing they should be allowed to hide their donors — which is a direct violation of state campaign disclosure laws — in order to "speak with one voice" for the interests of the food industry.

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#154 of 430 Old 12-05-2016, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been trying to come up with a template for pulling off a long-term deception of the public, either for profit or in order to hide the malfeasance of public officials.

There doesn't seem to be a single model, but some of the things I'm spotting are:

1) using the same strategy for multiple goals. An example would be Monsanto getting their people into high up positions in organizations that set guidelines, make recommendations and so on for "restoration" projects. These people probably are in a position to accomplish other things that benefit Monsanto. Getting their people into agricultural colleges works the same way. It is a matter of laying a solid groundwork, paradigm, where other options are always on the outside looking in across a whole range of areas.

2) developing a support group of cheerleaders/attack dogs who will defend the paradigm. I suspect that the majority of this crew will be true-believers, rather than insiders. In other words, they will be people who, for one reason or another, are absolutely certain that there is nothing to be concerned about, whether it is vaccines, GMOs, contaminated talcum powder, or glyphosate and are willing to fight hard to defend that certainty. I'm not quite sure how such people are gathered or recruited, and that would be an interesting thing to investigate. I think some are paid by PR firms and are not actual "believers", some are copycats, some are just people who like to attack outsiders and some like to feel superior. In other words, a mixed bag. (Note, I don't think that there are many people on Mothering, if any, who fall into those categories. I'm talking about the big world out there, not our little enclave.)

3) control of media is very helpful and is becoming easier as main-stream media becomes more desperate for income.

4) regulatory capture is great if you can pull it off

5) scientific consensus is also sort of fun--such a beautifully vague concept--easy to claim, hard to define or either prove or disprove. And very handy if you want to get people to keep using a dangerous product.

5) public apathy is also nice
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#155 of 430 Old 12-06-2016, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post

2) developing a support group of cheerleaders/attack dogs who will defend the paradigm. I suspect that the majority of this crew will be true-believers, rather than insiders. In other words, they will be people who, for one reason or another, are absolutely certain that there is nothing to be concerned about, whether it is vaccines, GMOs, contaminated talcum powder, or glyphosate and are willing to fight hard to defend that certainty. I'm not quite sure how such people are gathered or recruited, and that would be an interesting thing to investigate. I think some are paid by PR firms and are not actual "believers", some are copycats, some are just people who like to attack outsiders and some like to feel superior. In other words, a mixed bag. (Note, I don't think that there are many people on Mothering, if any, who fall into those categories. I'm talking about the big world out there, not our little enclave.)
I get why some parents of vaccine injured children put themselves out there in the spotlight. They want answers and they want those who are responsible to take responsibility. And they want to wake other parents up.

I get why some people become activists. They don't want the water, soil, animals, air, earth to be destroyed by thoughtless and greedy people.

But I'm really curious as to why a law professor gets involved in this issue. And I don't include just giving their legal opinion. I mean commenting (on non legal matters) on practically every media article; thousands of comments at all times of the day and week. What is in it for them? And who remunerates/subsidizes them to attend these "meetings" across the country? And how do they get their employers to accommodate all this time off work from their regular job? And I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do this. But I want to know what is in it for them. And is it an interest that should be declared?

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#156 of 430 Old 12-06-2016, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I've been trying to come up with a template for pulling off a long-term deception of the public, either for profit or in order to hide the malfeasance of public officials.

There doesn't seem to be a single model, but some of the things I'm spotting are:

1) using the same strategy for multiple goals. An example would be Monsanto getting their people into high up positions in organizations that set guidelines, make recommendations and so on for "restoration" projects. These people probably are in a position to accomplish other things that benefit Monsanto. Getting their people into agricultural colleges works the same way. It is a matter of laying a solid groundwork, paradigm, where other options are always on the outside looking in across a whole range of areas.

2) developing a support group of cheerleaders/attack dogs who will defend the paradigm. I suspect that the majority of this crew will be true-believers, rather than insiders. In other words, they will be people who, for one reason or another, are absolutely certain that there is nothing to be concerned about, whether it is vaccines, GMOs, contaminated talcum powder, or glyphosate and are willing to fight hard to defend that certainty. I'm not quite sure how such people are gathered or recruited, and that would be an interesting thing to investigate. I think some are paid by PR firms and are not actual "believers", some are copycats, some are just people who like to attack outsiders and some like to feel superior. In other words, a mixed bag. (Note, I don't think that there are many people on Mothering, if any, who fall into those categories. I'm talking about the big world out there, not our little enclave.)

3) control of media is very helpful and is becoming easier as main-stream media becomes more desperate for income.

4) regulatory capture is great if you can pull it off

5) scientific consensus is also sort of fun--such a beautifully vague concept--easy to claim, hard to define or either prove or disprove. And very handy if you want to get people to keep using a dangerous product.

5) public apathy is also nice
6) Remember that because the public never demanded your product in the first place, you will need a top-notch marketing machine and an arsenal of tactics to force it on them aggressively--marketing guilt and fear and pushing for mandates are tried and true methods. If you're lucky, as with GMOs, you can just spike the food supply with your product and lobby hard to deny customers the right to know even whether it's entering their bodies.

I'm the crunchy mom Dr. Amy warned you about.
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#157 of 430 Old 12-06-2016, 09:48 AM
 
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Not sure if this is a #7 or if it falls under other numbers already posted.

-Make sure to align/attach critics with every other controversial topic out there. Call them every name in the book not only in attempts to push them underground, but so that people who are ignorant of the discussion or are neutral will not want to be seen as sympathetic to them whatsoever for fear of being tarred with the same brush.
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Not sure if this is a #7 or if it falls under other numbers already posted.

-Make sure to align/attach critics with every other controversial topic out there. Call them every name in the book not only in attempts to push them underground, but so that people who are ignorant of the discussion or are neutral will not want to be seen as sympathetic to them whatsoever for fear of being tarred with the same brush.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-p...ing-underdogs/

Scroll down to #3 . It explains why amid thousands of of anti-SB277 protesters, reporters at the Sacramento Bee highlighted a weird couple with a Hitler sign. Because wanting to enroll your kid in school without so much as a single dose of the vaccine schedule makes you Just Like These Weirdos.

You can play around with all of these points in reference to the vaccine issue. (Note that there's a second page to the article).
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#159 of 430 Old 12-06-2016, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, I'm impressed with the thoughtful additions to my first attempt to explore how these conspiracies work,

Thanks!
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#160 of 430 Old 12-07-2016, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't really picture a bunch of powerful people sitting around a table saying: "how can we get millions addicted to opiates so we can get even richer than we already are?"

I see it playing out more like this:
First, someone develops a new drug and then they start trying to figure out how to market it. One of the brainstorming crew says: "I bet there are a lot of people with pain who aren't getting enough relief. Let's find some scientists to do research on this and perhaps we can get the drug to people who really need it." So they do the research and there are people with pain who aren't getting relief and with a bit of publicity and pushing and changes of guidelines the market starts expanding and everything looks good.

But then comes the dirty dealing. When it starts getting obvious that the drug is addictive and is being over-prescribed and there is an epidemic of opiate addiction developing...then we start getting folks working on burying the history, blocking laws that prevent the drugs being over-prescribed and so forth and so on. At that point the process becomes two-pronged: one prong is blaming everyone else for the crisis and the other prong is to delay for as long as possible any steps that will reduce sales.

Not a conspiracy in the usual "conspiracy theory" sense at all.
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#161 of 430 Old 12-07-2016, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When these "conspiracies" are pointed out, a common response is for someone to say: "look, the system works, the problem was spotted, the malfeasance was halted, it is all good."

I think there needs to be a sort of formula developed on how long it took for the problem to be spotted, how much longer it took after that first identification for something to be done to stop the "misbehavior", and finally what the consequences were for the people who were actively working to prevent the problem from being identified.

I don't think we can count the system working when someone first raises a red flag.

I don't think we can count the system working when a few thousand people become concerned and start writing to their legislators.

I think we can only count it as the system working when action is taken to correct the situation and restructure the system.

Let's look at Rachel Carson and the problem of pesticides being used on crops and on golf courses, etc. Rachel Carson's book, Silent Spring, was published in 1962.

It is now 2016 and people, animals, wildlife, insects (bees, for example) and the environment continue to suffer from exposure to various pesticides and herbicides.

I'd say the system didn't work and continues to not work, year after year.
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#162 of 430 Old 12-07-2016, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-p...ing-underdogs/

Scroll down to #3 . It explains why amid thousands of of anti-SB277 protesters, reporters at the Sacramento Bee highlighted a weird couple with a Hitler sign. Because wanting to enroll your kid in school without so much as a single dose of the vaccine schedule makes you Just Like These Weirdos.

You can play around with all of these points in reference to the vaccine issue. (Note that there's a second page to the article).
Over forty-five years ago, cerca 1970, my parents agreed to be interviewed as a large family that is dedicated to feeding their children organic, with supplements, raw milk, etc. They had an appointment, sat down, were filmed and - nothing. None of it was ever used.

What was put into that piece were interviews with long haired hippies and a doctor in jeans and a beard. While one may not see that as strange now, at the time, long hair and hippies were linked to news items as the Manson Family and other social outcasts - so that eating organic and healthy would not seem normal.

Organic had a renaissance in the early 1980s with the pesticide Alar in the news.

As I understand it, organic is defined in law in TX and CA and other states. Still it is a fringe group that demands it.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#163 of 430 Old 12-07-2016, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Or a group that is labeled as fringe!

Excellent example of framing, Applejuice.
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#164 of 430 Old 12-07-2016, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not so much seeing conspiracies as a deep-seated mindset that only allows certain sorts of solutions to problems to be put on the table. Anything outside of that mindset is more or less automatically framed/labeled as crazy.

The vaccine push is a truly blatant example and it would be interesting to explore why vaccines have been boosted for quite a long stretch as a reasonable solution to infectious diseases and why anyone who doesn't see them as a reasonable solution is demonized. And why this has escalated in the last few years. Are vaccines the last gasp of the old paradigm and hence being defended to the bitter end? But the other examples in this thread are all "real" and I think they build up a pretty good picture of a very dysfunctional society and scientific system. Seriously.
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#165 of 430 Old 01-05-2017, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This one is a DOOZY! https://www.hormonesmatter.com/gaslighting-women/

Hormonal birth control and blood clots. And denial of blood clots, orchestrated by...drum roll...people who profit from spreading misinformation. Does this all sound really familiar?
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My work on the Nelson Pill Hearings has proven that convincing doctors that these drugs are safe has been an ongoing and completely intentional manipulation by the pharmaceutical industry. Every witness that testified on behalf on the pill had financial ties to drug companies. Those that did not profit from drug companies, like Dr. Williams, warned us of these dangers (NPH, page 6277):
“Prominent physicians long identified with pill promotion have actively advanced the cause, often with dogmatic denials of the pill’s dangers, often with exaggerated rebuttals of the danger alarms—for example, the pill is safer than pregnancy—and often with irrelevant analogies and misstatements of facts, calculated to obfuscate the issues.”
He also warned us of the reach of the pharmaceutical industry in educating our physicians (NPH, page 6220):
the average practicing physician relies upon the drug companies for much, if not all of his information about drugs… the Physician’s Desk Reference is no more than a compendium of drug company advertising.”
Dr. Williams was not the only one concerned. Dr. Spellacy testified that (NPH, page 6437):
“One of the problems is keeping physicians informed of the tremendous expanding literature on this particular subject… I believe that relying solely on the pharmaceutical industry to inform the physicians of these things is shedding our responsibility as a medical group to keep ourselves informed.”
Tell me again, why should we trust the pharmaceutical companies?
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#166 of 430 Old 01-06-2017, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I personally know three people who went through extreme difficulties with Lyme. Probably know more, but not everyone talks about it. And the book I got for my library on Lyme has gone out both locally and via interlibrary loan quite a lot.

https://www.change.org/p/the-us-sena...-idsa-and-aldf

Quote:
“In the fullness of time, the mainstream handling of chronic Lyme disease will be viewed as one of the most shameful episodes in the history of medicine because elements of academic medicine, elements of government and virtually the entire insurance industry have colluded to deny a disease.”
Conspiracy and cover-up in medicine...gosh...how very unlikely!
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#167 of 430 Old 01-06-2017, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And in this case, there are vaccines involved.

Could there be a real conspiracy? Stay tuned.
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#168 of 430 Old 01-07-2017, 07:17 AM
 
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I personally know three people who went through extreme difficulties with Lyme. Probably know more, but not everyone talks about it. And the book I got for my library on Lyme has gone out both locally and via interlibrary loan quite a lot.

https://www.change.org/p/the-us-sena...-idsa-and-aldf



Conspiracy and cover-up in medicine...gosh...how very unlikely!
So many similarities between the vaccine injury/autism issue and the lyme disease issue.

See the documentaries "Under Our Skin" and "Under Our Skin: Emergence". They probably can both be seen online for free (in our area a library card will give access to Hoopla).
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#169 of 430 Old 01-07-2017, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So many similarities between the vaccine injury/autism issue and the lyme disease issue.

See the documentaries "Under Our Skin" and "Under Our Skin: Emergence". They probably can both be seen online for free (in our area a library card will give access to Hoopla).
Some libraries don't have Hoopla, but they can borrow the DVD from another library via interlibrary loan. Libraries are very useful!
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#170 of 430 Old 01-25-2017, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is the problem corruption or just bad habits and inertia? Whatever the explanation, this is a MUCH bigger problem than vaccine refusal. We could have 10 times our current rate of vaccine refusal and it wouldn't do this much damage. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...uld-cut-c-diff

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C difficile is considered an urgent threat by US health officials. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that C difficile causes nearly 250,000 US hospitalization a year and 14,000 deaths. From 2000 to 2007, C difficile–related deaths increased by 400%, in part because of the spread of the 027 strain.
But Crook also acknowledged that reducing fluoroquinolone use by 50%—as has been done in England—will be very difficult to do in the United States, since fluoroquinolones are used widely in the US healthcare system.
Brad Spellberg, MD, an infectious disease specialist at University of Southern California, agrees.
"We massively overuse quinolones in the US, and, unfortunately, national guidelines have helped propagate the overuse by promoting these drugs as first line for diseases where other drugs can also be used," Spellberg said.
Spellberg said fluoroquinolones should be reserved for broad-spectrum gram-negative infections, which tend to be more resistant and harmful to humans, and should be used for less harmful gram-positive infections only when other options can't be used.
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#171 of 430 Old 02-01-2017, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And more corporate wrong-doing which has benefited from governmental shortcomings. http://www.salon.com/2016/01/04/tefl...egacy_partner/

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Now, information emerging from millions of pages of internal company reports reveals that several DuPont scientists and senior staff members had for many years either known, or at least suspected, that C8 was harmful. Yet DuPont continued to use the chemical, putting its own workers, local residents, and the American public at risk.
The documents show that signs of C8’s toxicity began to emerge very quickly as DuPont scaled up its Teflon production in the 1950s. The company funds its own safety-testing laboratory – the Haskell Laboratory of Industrial Toxicology – in part to screen workers for signs of illnesses that might be tied to DuPont products. In 1961, company lab tests linked C8 exposure to enlarged livers in rats and rabbits. DuPont scientists then conducted tests on humans, asking a group of volunteers to smoke cigarettes laced with C8. “Nine out of ten people in the highest-dosed group were noticeably ill for an average of nine hours with flu-like symptoms that included chills, backache, fever, and coughing,” the researchers noted.
Well, they did get caught eventually, but this incredibly nasty chemical is now everywhere, poisoning people across the US. Apparently there is just no way to get rid of it. Eternal crap.
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#172 of 430 Old 02-22-2017, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Boosting up this thread in response to the happy face endorsement of Google de-indexing a vaccine critic.

Sure, let's just shove all those awkward people who point to disastrous problems out of sight so they don't cut into profits!
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#173 of 430 Old 02-25-2017, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An interesting article on ways in which the naive are encouraged to overlook relevant and helpful scientific research. https://theethicalskeptic.com/2017/0...e-publication/

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1. ‘Well-established journal’ publication requires sponsorship from a major institution. Scientific American cites that 88% of scientists possess no such sponsorship, and this statistic has nothing to do with the scientific groups’ relative depth in subject field.² So this standard, while useful for the casual reader of science, is not suitable at all for one who spends a lifetime of depth inside a subject. This would include for instance, a person studying impacting factors on autism in their child, or persons researching the effect of various supplements on their health. Not to mention of course, the need to look beyond this small group of publications applies to scientists who spend a life committed to their subject as well.
One will never arrive at truth by tossing out 88% of scientific studies right off the bat.
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#174 of 430 Old 03-02-2017, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't assume that a non-profit group which is supposed to represent the interests of patients hasn't been BOUGHT. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/h...oney.html?_r=1

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And a year ago, for example, a representative for the National Psoriasis Foundation did not disclose that her group receives at least 40 percent of its annual revenues from drug companies when she testified before the North Carolina state legislature on an unsuccessful measure supported by the pharmaceutical industry that would have limited insurers’ ability to block coverage of certain drugs. Similarly, the hemophilia foundation did not disclose its pharmaceutical ties when it took the industry’s side in 2015 in a letter to the Food and Drug Administration over the issue of biosimilars, which are cheaper alternatives to complex biological drugs.
In addition to supporting drug company goals in legislative bodies, these organizations can make recommendations of treatments that might be more helpful to the drug company bottom line than they are to the actual patients.
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#175 of 430 Old 03-02-2017, 06:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Don't assume that a non-profit group which is supposed to represent the interests of patients hasn't been BOUGHT. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/h...oney.html?_r=1



In addition to supporting drug company goals in legislative bodies, these organizations can make recommendations of treatments that might be more helpful to the drug company bottom line than they are to the actual patients.
This is exactly why I stopped supporting NAMI.
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RIP old MDC. We miss you!
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#176 of 430 Old 03-03-2017, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is exactly why I stopped supporting NAMI.
Yeah. Some of what they end up supporting is over-the-top, super expensive drugs, to be paid for my taxpayers. Do the drugs benefit the end-user?
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#177 of 430 Old 03-08-2017, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And here are some humanitarians fighting against agribusiness around the globe

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The Special Rapporteurs point to denials by the agroindustry of the hazards of certain pesticides, the scale of the impacts, as well as the inappropriate shifting of blame to farmers for misusing its products. They express concern about aggressive, unethical marketing tactics that remain unchallenged, and huge sums spent by the powerful chemical industry to influence policymakers and contest scientific evidence.
http://sustainablepulse.com/2017/03/.../#.WMBa4GdOncv

Sure sounds like corruption to me.
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#178 of 430 Old 03-15-2017, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The slow and careful process of research around the risks of Hormone Replacement Therapy must have resulted in a huge increase in breast cancer. Isn't that wonderful? It is always great when it takes the maximum amount of time to find out about problems and change the recommendations.

And women are still being told it is their choice to use or not use HRT, despite the possible risk of breast cancer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2...ource=facebook
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#179 of 430 Old 03-15-2017, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is evidence of collusion between the EPA and Monsanto to cover up the risk of cancer related to Glyphosate
http://glyphosate.news/2017-03-15-ep...s-rowland.html

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Dr. Copley’s dying declaration begins by naming no fewer than fourteen effects of glyphosate known to EPA, all of which are plausible mechanisms of action explaining the increase in lymphoma risk. See Letter dated March 24, 2013 from Dr. Copley to Jess Roland, Exhibit 1. As Dr. Copley notes, “any one of these mechanisms alone listed can cause tumors, but glyphosate causes all of them simultaneously.” Id. Dr. Copley noted that glyphosate was previously classified by EPA as a “possible human carcinogen,” and argued that, in accordance with EPA’s knowledge about the chemical, EPA should classify glyphosate as a “probable human carcinogen.” Id. Unfortunately, Dr. Copley died less than a year later and before IARC, the following year, reached this very conclusion.
Dr. Copley’s letter points at corruption within EPA; she asks that Mr. Rowland consider her scientific assertions rather that “play your political conniving games with the science to favor the registrants [pesticide manufacturers].” Dr. Copley confronts Mr. Rowland with allegations that he and Anna Lowit, who still works at EPA, “intimidated staff on CARC and changed HIARC and HASPOC final reports to favor industry.” Dr. Copley’s letter closes with an additional accusation toward Ms. Lowit: “If anyone in OPP is taking bribes, it is her.” She requests that Mr. Rowland “for once do the right thing and don’t make decisions based on how it affects your bonus.”
I do believe that some members on this very forum have quoted the EPA on the safety of Glyphosate...
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#180 of 430 Old 03-15-2017, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Glyphosate lawsuit made it into the NY Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/b...=tw-share&_r=0

I find it interesting that the lawsuit against Merck from the two whistleblowers has been kept in the business press only.
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