Yet another example of why you shouldn't blindly accept vaccine injury/death stories - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yet another example of why you shouldn't blindly accept vaccine injury/death stories

I'm sure anyone who follows the vaccine movement on social media has heard the story of Evee Clobes. She was vaccinated and then her mother found her dead the next morning. She's put up billboards and been interviewed on places like The Highwire with Del Bigree saying vaccines caused her death.

Dorit wrote about it a week or so ago detailing the Medical Examiner's report that the baby died from positional asphyxiation as a result of co-sleeping. The baby was sleeping in a queen bed on a soft mattress with a soft comforter and pillows. She had marks on her face from a comforter, there was fluid from the baby's mouth and nose on the sheets, and she had blood pooling in her face and front of her body indicating she had unfortunately been face down for quite some time. This is consistent with earlier interviews in which the mother said she "rolled" Evee to look at her when she didn't respond, even though now she tries to dispute that she was face down.

The mother has been repeatedly saying that she had another pathologist who she sent samples to whose findings supported her claim that vaccines caused her daughter's death. This pathologist is one that is "respected" by anti-vaxxers and has testified in court before on vaccine SIDS cases.

Now a new report on NBCnews is even more damning.

In it, we learn that the mother had been drinking whiskey that night. She also says "This is because she was sleeping with me" on the 911 transcript call.

Even more damning, the pathologist she hired says the mother has been lying about his findings. He said he found no evidence that vaccines caused or contributed to Evee's death and says he told the mother so months ago.

Quote:
For the autopsy — more precisely, a study of tissue samples retained by Wright County — Clobes' lawyer hired Dr. Douglas ******, a clinical professor of pathology at the University of Missouri and one of the few mainstream medical professionals anti-vaccination activists seem to respect. He has served as an expert witness for parents who filed lawsuits claiming vaccines triggered SIDS in their children. Clobes said on social media that ****** would be doing the study.

******, who charges $500 per hour to evaluate a vaccine injury claim case, confirmed to NBC News that he completed an evaluation for Clobes in July.

****** said his investigation found no evidence that vaccines had contributed to Evee's death. He said he told Clobes of his conclusion, and had declined to support her case in the federal government's National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, known more commonly as Vaccine Court. He declined to name the factors that led to his decision, citing concern for Clobes' privacy.

Online, however, Clobes claimed Dr. ******'s report offered "proof" that Evee had suffered "a cellular infiltration triggered by an immune response from the vaccinations."

"I did not tell Ms. Clobes of any such finding," ****** said, "and I did not provide her or her attorney with any report which alleged any such finding."

When asked about ******'s statements, Clobes directed questions to her lawyer, who did not return multiple requests for comment.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be to know your actions resulted in your child's death. That does not mean you get to blame vaccines without evidence to make yourself feel better.

Shame on those in the anti-vaccine community who prey on these vulnerable parents of babies who died from SIDS and try and convince them vaccines are the cause for their own propaganda benefit.

Hopefully, this article puts this claim to rest and that poor baby can stop being used as anti-vaccine fodder.

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#2 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know why Mothering is censoring his name but it is Dr. Douglas M-i-l-l-e-r.

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#3 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 09:26 AM
 
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There is little difference between blindly accepting a vaccine injury story and blindly disregarding it.

Catie Clobe's baby died 36 hours post vaccination. She had been 100% healthy prior to dying. The death was listed as undetermined in the original death certificate. The mother asked/borderline begged for certain tests to be done to rule in or out vaccine damage - and the medical examiner refused. This is a woman who was pro-vax prior to her baby dying....the callous treatment she received, the lack of looking into things - these doubtlessly contributed to her being non-vax. She was not born non-vax; she was made this way.

And yes, shame on anyone who preyed on her, shame on anyone who treated her callously or dismissively.
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#4 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
There is little difference between blindly accepting a vaccine injury story and blindly disregarding it.

Catie Clobe's baby died 36 hours post vaccination. She had been 100% healthy prior to dying. The death was listed as unexplained in the original death certificate. The mother asked/borderline begged for certain tests to be done to rule in or out vaccine damage - and the medical examiner refused. This is a woman who was pro-vax prior to her baby dying....the callous treatment she received, the lack of looking into things - these doubtlessly contributed to her being non-vax. She was not born non-vax; she was made this way.

And yes, shame on anyone who preyed on her, shame on anyone who treated her callously or dismissively.
It was not listed as just unexplained in the original report. That is another untruth from the mother. It was listed as undetermined with co-sleeping with an adult as a significant contributing factor. Did you read the article?

Quote:
The medical examiner initially found the cause of death to be "undetermined," with co-sleeping with an adult as a "significant condition." Three months later, at Clobes' request, the same examiner reviewed the case and amended the cause of death to positional asphyxia, or suffocation.
The mother asked for a more thorough investigation which the ME did. Listing cases of accidental suffocation of a baby as SIDS or unexplained/undetermined is a known phenomenon that is often done as a kindness to the grieving parents. It's such a problem that even the CDC has said they want to take steps to prevent labeling suffocation deaths as SIDS.

I feel sympathy for the mother for losing a child, but not in how she has handled it afterward. She has been... less than forthcoming (and that is putting it kindly) about the facts surrounding her baby's death and has been outright lying about pathology results from Dr. M-i-l-l-e-r who she herself hired and who is sympathetic towards the non-vaccine community in order to further the agenda and shift blame from herself. That is inexcusable and I do not feel sympathy for that.

If only she had put her efforts into warning people about unsafe sleeping practices instead of being dishonest about the facts surrounding her baby's death, maybe some good could have come out of this tragedy.

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#5 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 11:30 AM
 
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It was not listed as just unexplained in the original report. That is another untruth from the mother. It was listed as undetermined with co-sleeping with an adult as a significant contributing factor. Did you read the article?

.
No, lol, it was me writing too fast. I used the wrong word. I will change unexplained to undetermined.
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#6 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 12:07 PM
 
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I haven't followed this story at all and as such can't comment on it.

I just find it interesting how opponents of medical autonomy are so quick to condemn "anti-vaxxers" for "blind acceptance" when they were so quick to blindly accept the media narrative about Ezequiel Stephens. https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/david-and..._gsc=eTuOvDVen

This is why I take issue with moral crusades; the crusaders themselves become so entrenched in their beliefs that they're blind to their own hypocrisy.

Meanwhile, the Stephens family is stigmatized for life over a child's death that wasn't their fault.
But I won't hold my breath for any apologies.
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#7 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 01:30 PM
 
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Yes.

Remember how the pro-vaxxers pounced on that teen who decided to go against his moms wishes and vaccinate himself? Or that young kid in Mexico who posted a pro-vax video.

Are those examples of pro-vaxxers exploiting vulnerable people? They might be. It is not quite as heinous as a woman with a dead baby...but still not great.

An alternate viewpoint is that the teen, the kid in Mexico and the mom with the deceased baby came to their beliefs fairly independently without much influence from either side. To believe otherwise is fairly patronizing (as an aside, the most likely to be unduly influenced, given his age, and it would likely be by his parents, would be the kid in Mexico).
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#8 of 37 Old 09-24-2019, 09:28 PM
 
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"Grieving parents may believe vaccines caused their baby’s death, but the timing is often a coincidence, since any baby who dies would likely have been vaccinated recently."
What does this say about our vaccine schedule? Historically, babies always co-slept with parents until cribs became affordable for more than the rich. I slept with all of my babies. They are all adults now. I find it unbelievable and heartbreaking that this is being touted as factual since they made this all up. If vaccines were so safe and effective, why is the US #45 in infant mortality? Perhaps we can list the date of any dead child's last vaccinations with batch and lot numbers so Time can tell us the Truth. All studies done have shown a temporal link between SIDS and vaccination.

Because of the damage the pertussis vaccine has been known to do since 1947, Japan stopped giving infant vaccines in the 1970s, waiting until they child was two years of age to begin vaccinating. In that period of time, Japan's infant mortality plummeted to nearly nothing - Japan has remained in the top 5-10 ever since. Japan reintroduced infant vaccinations because of pressure from the drug companies. I guess it was obvious.

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Reports of brain damage and death are found in the following DPT inoculation medical literature as far back as 1933, but it was 45 years before the federal government decided to take a closer look.

In 1978-79, the Food and Drug Administration financed a study of adverse reactions to DPT within 48 hours of immunization. Research work was done at the University of California at Los Angeles by Drs. James D. Cherry, Larry J. Baraff, Charles R. Manclark, Christopher Cody and S. Michael Marcy.

When their first article appeared in the journal Pediatrics in November 1981, adverse reaction rates reported were unexpectedly high. The incidence of convulsions was one in 1,750 shots. Incidence of shock also was one in 1,750 shots.

Typically, the number of shots is converted into the number of children by dividing by three primary shots. That would make the incidence rate one in about 600 children. However, Cherry said last month he could not calculate the number of children because they had differing numbers of shots.

The statistics marked a tremendous leap in the previous figures — one in 7,000 children or one in 21,000 immunizations —used by the national Centers for Disease Control and accepted by physicians as the best data available in 1978.

However, it was March 1, 1983, before UCLA’s data was added to what the CDC calls the Important Information Statement which is given to parents at every public health clinic in the country.

Early in the UCLA study, adverse reactions were 5,000 percent higher than expected. That prompted Baraff to contact Wyeth Laboratories, the primary Source of DPT vaccine used in the study. He met with Dr. Marc W. Deitch of Wyeth on Sept. 6, 1978.

In a report that has been produced in lawsuits against the manufacturers Deitch reported to eight other Wyeth doctors that Baraff was studying reactions to DPT vaccine and that "far from the expected incidence of one in 15,000 immunizations, there have been five out of 1,500 or an incidence of one in 300 of generalized seizures" Deitch said all the reactions had occurred in infants less than 6 months old.

Deitch said Baraff called the reaction rate unacceptable and that Baraff’s feelings "are reinforced by phone calls and letters he receives constantly from Practitioners, clinic directors and pediatricians in California"Also during the UCLA study, two deaths occurred following DPT vaccinations The Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office recorded both as apparent crib deaths.

The deaths were disclosed in the researchers’ final report to the FDA in March 1980, but they were not included in published articles. The UCLA researchers’ articles appeared in the journal Pediatrics in late 1981 and in January 1984.

Manclark who was on the UCLA team and now directs the FDA’s pertussis branch, said the deaths were not reported because "they were outside the study." They occurred at 88 and 90 hours after the DPT shot, but the study was limited to reactions within 48 hours.

Cherry said: "They weren’t part of the study. Those deaths were no more frequent than by chance. It’s like saying children who had a shot, then were hit by a car, should be included."

Why were the deaths reported to the FDA but not to physicians in the Pediatrics articles? "There were tons of things not included in the journal," Cherry said. "That information was actually presented at a national meeting in 1981 at the Society for Pediatric Research."

Although money was provided for 50,000 doses, the study was stopped after fewer than 16,000 doses were given. The reason is unclear.

"The FDA was going in to prove their figure — one in 310,000 — was right, maybe even optimistic," said Ed Hodges of California’s Dissatisfied Parents Together. "They say they ran out of money, but what really happened is the reactions there too high. It blew up in their faces, and they aborted the study."

Cherry denies that. "Actually there was too little money to do it, anyway. The reason we didn’t do more was that it took forever to get going.

"We had to get permission through three human-subject protection committees. .. Consent forms were so crazy, trying to cover every single thing. That was at least a three-month delay.

Manclark disclaimed a link between the reaction rate and the study’s curtailment. He said a considerable amount of time and money had been spent in preparation, creating forms for parents to use and then following up on parents to see they filled them out accurately.

"All the money was used and the study was extended to get as many of the patients into the study as possible," Manclark said.

Vital medical data might have been obtained from children who had convulsions and shock if follow-ups had been done, but the study time was limited to 48 hours.

Five years after the study ended, Manclark said "Dr. Baraff is trying to find the kids now. We said we [at the FDA] would find him some support money to find those kids."
And shame on anyone who gets their primary news from the "Daily Fail" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail.

"The founder was friends with Hitler and Mussolini so they were pushing Hitler's gas chambers agenda for eugenics and depopulation. . In February 2017, the English Wikipedia banned the Daily Mail as an "unreliable source" to use as a reference in Wikipedia. Its use as a reference is now "generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist". Support for the ban centred on "the Daily Mail's reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication".?
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#9 of 37 Old 09-27-2019, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't followed this story at all and as such can't comment on it.

I just find it interesting how opponents of medical autonomy are so quick to condemn "anti-vaxxers" for "blind acceptance" when they were so quick to blindly accept the media narrative about Ezequiel Stephens. https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/david-and..._gsc=eTuOvDVen

This is why I take issue with moral crusades; the crusaders themselves become so entrenched in their beliefs that they're blind to their own hypocrisy.

Meanwhile, the Stephens family is stigmatized for life over a child's death that wasn't their fault.
But I won't hold my breath for any apologies.
You were saying? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...DwPPVhX7VrL9H4

This is exactly why judges and jurors, the vast majority of whom have zero medical training, =/= science.

So no, I am not apologizing for diddly squat. When two medical professionals the parents themselves solicited advice from told them to take him to a hospital and their child was too stiff to sit in a car seat and they still refused to do so until he literally stopped breathing, they are the ones culpable for his death.

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#10 of 37 Old 09-28-2019, 09:00 AM
 
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You were saying?

All quotes from https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2019/0...ers-testimony/


Quote:
Hess, acting on behalf of Collet Stephan, told the court that trying to understand Adeagbo’s evidence and the way it was delivered made his testimony troubling.

She told Justice Clackson that on a basic level – especially when testifying via CCTV – it was extraordinarily difficult to decipher certain words and explanations; not just because he has a thick accent, but because “He rambles. His use of punctuation is very challenging.”...She then cited about a dozen instances where either the judge, court reporter, or someone cross-examining him had difficulty making out sentences, words and meaning, calling some of them “hardly intelligible.”
So will more people be investigated for racism besides the judge?

Quote:
Adeagbo believed the toddler died of bacterial meningitis because of his own bias towards non-immunization, argued Hess. To consider other possibilities was pointless. “He seems to rejoice it’s this classic meningitis that he expects,” she said. However, he did not provide satisfactory responses to why he didn’t test the child’s spinal fluid, empyema (lung infection) or brain materials for viruses.

Hess also told the court that the doctor’s rude, flippant, arrogant and defensive responses wholly and completely detracted from his evidence.

“For someone who testified 30 times, his professionalism is lacking,” she said.
my bold

If you were on trial Teacozy, how would you feel about someone testifying against you that you could not understand? How about one that may be incompetent in their job? Does questioning this medical examiner's competency make people racists?

Quote:
Adeagbo was the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on 19-month old Ezekiel after he died in March 2012. He concluded the child died from bacterial meningitis and a lung infection. Even though the autopsy was performed shortly after death, a final report was not completed for seven months.
Why would it take seven months to be completed?

Quote:
Mention was also made in Adeagbo’s autopsy and cause of death reports that Ezekiel was not immunized and that his parents used herbs to treat his illness.
And yet Adeagbo didn't test the spinal fluid, empyema or brain materials. If you were standing trial Teacozy, would this be acceptable to you?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All quotes below from: https://globalnews.ca/news/5922905/d...decision-2019/

Quote:
Queen’s Bench Justice Terry Clackson spoke for only four minutes before telling the parents to stand.

“The Stephans did not know Ezekiel had meningitis but were alert to the possibility and monitoring the symptoms,” Clackson said before releasing a full written decision. “The meningitis Ezekiel had was viral and he did not die from meningitis but from a lack of oxygen.”
my bold

Quote:
Testimony indicated the boy was without oxygen for nearly nine minutes because the ambulance that took him to hospital wasn’t properly stocked with breathing equipment to fit a child.

“The physical evidence supports … (the) conclusion that Ezekiel died because he was deprived of oxygen. That occurred because he stopped breathing and the resulting oxygen deprivation lasted long enough to lead to his death,” Clackson wrote.

The judge added that the Crown did not prove that medical attention would have saved the boy’s life.
my bold
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#11 of 37 Old 09-28-2019, 10:38 AM
 
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This is exactly why judges and jurors, the vast majority of whom have zero medical training, =/= science.
Does one need medical training to question why a medical examiner would exclude pertinent information from their autopsy report? Quotes from: https://www.meetthestephans.com/stan...xDrqACpN1AzVPo

Quote:
At one point during the trial when the topic of Ezekiel dying from hypoxic injury due to going over 8 minutes without oxygen in an ill equipped AHS ambulance, Dr. Adeagbo admitted to making a practice of excluding pertinent negatives from his autopsy reports which resulted in chatter from the gallery as they were left wondering what other AHS condemning information Dr. Adeagbo had excluded from Ezekiel's autopsy report.
my bold


Quote:
Perjuries, refusal to answer questions, angry rants and explosive outbursts were all things Court of Queen's Bench, Justice Terry Clackson had to deal with during the 7 days of testimony of Dr. Bamidele Adeagbo.
The Crown had estimated his testimony to take 2 weeks but it ended up taking 2-3 months. All on the taxpayer's dime.

Oh look! The Crown prosecutor and court reporter are racists too!
Quote:
Crown prosecutor Britta Kristensen made numerous statements regarding the struggle the Court was having in understanding the Doctor's testimony. At times the court reporter would appear to be on the verge of tears and would even interrupt testimony in an effort to clarify what had been said.
Quote:
Dr. Adeagbo repeatedly claimed Ezekiel was dead well before arriving at the hospital. This claim was shattered by a recorded 911 call where Ezekiel was recorded breathing while his parents discussed whether they should rush him into the hospital or wait for an ambulance.


Lookout Indiana.

Quote:
Less than a month after being found not-guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life to his 18 month old son Ezekiel, David Stephan is calling for a full inquiry into all past autopsies performed by former Alberta Medical Examiner Bamadele Adeagbo. Shortly After complaints were made to RCMP about perjury of the former ME, Dr. Adeagbo relocated to Terre Haute, Indiana where he works at the Terre Haute Regional Hospital.
Vaccine extremists/parental rights deniers are pathetically desperate. When the facts don't suit, they now resort to race baiting.
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#12 of 37 Old 09-30-2019, 02:11 PM
 
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Before she's completely slandered, Catie Clobes deserves a chance to air her side: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
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#13 of 37 Old 09-30-2019, 02:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Before she's completely slandered, Catie Clobes deserves a chance to air her side: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
My goodness! Are you thinking that the vaccine supporters might distort some facts to protect vaccines?
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#14 of 37 Old 10-01-2019, 07:28 AM
 
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My daughter's initial cause of death was "undetermined" by the medical examiner's office. There were absolutely no signs of suffocation, nor any indications that co-sleeping played a part in her death, but before the autopsy was complete, the medical examiner and I exchanged words about "va******" being the cause, and in this phone conversation, the medical examiner proved herself to be completely partial towards the thought that va****** do not cause deaths. There was no maltreatment found, an investigation was done by the county and CPS and it was completed before the autopsy report had even reached me.
And this is a good point.

Quote:
Furthermore, asphyxiation is undetectable in an autopsy, it doesn't happen in an infant who is 6 1/2 months old and can roll from back to belly & vice versa, and the investigative report & autopsy state that Evee had blood come from her nose, and milk from her mouth, shortly after her death. I still have the mattress pad it soaked into. Her airways were visibly open & clear.
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#15 of 37 Old 10-01-2019, 12:14 PM
 
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Before she's completely slandered, Catie Clobes deserves a chance to air her side: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
It will be interesting to see if this "blackwash" works well for the vaccine pushers. They have certainly plumbed the depths to come up with nasty accusations to fling at Catie.



But Catie has the original report which looks completely different from the claims that Teacozy is putting forward.
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#16 of 37 Old 10-01-2019, 12:56 PM
 
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Indeed. It may be time to re-name the thread: "Another Reason Why You Shouldn't Blindly Accept Slanderous Claims Against Vaccine Injury/Death Stories."

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#17 of 37 Old 10-01-2019, 07:49 PM
 
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So I did a little more dirt diggin' on the Stephan case. The complaint was filed by 42 academics, mostly in law and medicine. https://www.680news.com/2019/09/26/c...-stephan-case/

Racism and accusations of racism are still pretty prevelant in today's society. Do these people always band together like this to write a letter when it happens? Did all of them attend the trial and witness what transpired? What would be their dog in the fight?

I haven't looked up all of them, but it turns out that a good many of them are vaccine compliance warriors and/or medical autonomy foes.

Dr. Susan Bornemizca of University of Calgary School of Medicine: https://www.calgaryherald.com/health...723/story.html

Dr. Marc Steben:
https://umontreal.academia.edu/MarcSteben

Dr. Brian Ward, presenting on vaccine "conspiracy theories." https://webadmin.mcgill.ca/science/o.../2010/schedule
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...arents_of_boys

Dr. Samara Perez: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Samara_Perez

Dr. Amir Attaran advocating for forced measles vaccination: https://www.thestar.com/life/health_...ms-wishes.html

My hunch? They didn't like the verdict of the case and haven't given up on trying bring this family down. So they reacted by slandering the judge, calling his criticism of their star witness' accent and poor communication skills "racist."

It's desperate. And pathetic.
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Another name on the complaint is Juliet Guichon
Her name is on this paper: A National Survey of Canadian Adults on HPV: Knowledge, Attitudes, andBarriers to the HPV Vaccine

In the complaint these "academics" try to make the case that the judge is racist because he had an issue with Dr. Adeagbo's accent but not with Dr. Anny Sauvageau's French Canadian accent. There are two official languages in Canada and neither of them are Nigerian. Most non-French speaking Canadians are used to the accents of the French speaking Canadians and understand them when they speak English. It is my understanding that translators are to be provided for the accused and witnesses in criminal trials. The Crown Prosecutors would have known in advance that this witness' English was hard to understand and they should have provided a translator.

As for the witness' "body language":

Quote:
During one explosive rant, Dr. Adeagbo paced the floor while yelling at the Court and the questioner in an indiscernible dialog all while seeming oblivious to the fact that he was testifying in a court of law.
https://www.meetthestephans.com/stan...xDrqACpN1AzVPo

Here, from the court records is how the judge responded to Dr. Adeagbo:

Quote:
Justice Terry Clackson: "Stop for a second, Doctor, please. I want you to take a breath. I want you to know that everybody gets a little frustrated with the court process, and you're not the first and won't be the last. I've also been frustrated on occasion in this trial, and when we get frustrated, sometimes we rant. And I think, however, that this process is one that is necessary to the decision that I have to make, and so, while frustrating, it's one that we have to put up with, tolerate. And so I'm asking you, sir, to try and get past your frustration, and we'll try and move along so that we can complete this portion of the trial and move on to the next aspect; okay? Do you think you can do that?"
I dunno, that sounded pretty respectful to me especially given some of the sketchy testimony. Perhaps the doctor's theatrics were a way to deflect from the incompetencies.

I think this quote from the author of the blog linked above is spot on:

Quote:
The recent and baseless claims of Justice Terry Clackson acting in a racist fashion, appears to be nothing more than a desperate attempt by the establishment to control the Courts through defamatory actions, while deflecting responsibility away from the organizations they represent. Namely, the University of Calgary and their Alberta Children's Hospital which originally incited the criminal prosecution on the Stephans at the same time that they were covering up the fact that their testing showed that Ezekiel did not have bacterial meningitis and that Ezekiel had actually died from oxygen deprivation in an ambulance.
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They didn't like the verdict of the case and haven't given up on trying bring this family down.
The powers that be have been after this family since the early days of the patriarch's foray into making a supplement that was first designed to help his own children and then later became available to the public. The products were seen to be a threat to the pharmaceutical industry as there were testimonies of people getting better and stopping their prescribed meds.
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and just because 'dorit said so' isn't good enough for me
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#20 of 37 Old 10-02-2019, 07:40 AM
 
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In the complaint these "academics" try to make the case that the judge is racist because he had an issue with Dr. Adeagbo's accent but not with Dr. Anny Sauvageau's French Canadian accent. There are two official languages in Canada and neither of them are Nigerian.
English is prevalent in Nigeria but not always as a first language, (the country has 100s of languages spoken there), and not always easy for westerners to understand. (I haven't been to Nigeria but do speak with some experience here). I went poking around to see if I could find videos of both doctors. I didn't find one of Dr. Ageagbo. But I can't imagine why anybody would tell Dr. Sauvageau that she's difficult to understand.

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#21 of 37 Old 10-02-2019, 11:51 AM
 
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PSA: As a forum I think we should stick to using people's proper names if we use them at all. A FB page just had a post shut down because FB claimed they were bullying the person who was the subject of the post. Every thing vaccine choice proponents say/write is heavily scrutinized so we have to be mindful of not handing them ammunition to use against us and detract from the message.
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#22 of 37 Old 10-02-2019, 12:15 PM
 
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PSA: As a forum I think we should stick to using people's proper names if we use them at all. A FB page just had a post shut down because FB claimed they were bullying the person who was the subject of the post. Every thing vaccine choice proponents say/write is heavily scrutinized so we have to be mindful of not handing them ammunition to use against us and detract from the message.
You lost me here. I don't think I name-called anyone. Did I use/write a name incorrectly?

ETA: Oh, never mind. I found the post.
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#23 of 37 Old 10-02-2019, 12:45 PM
 
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adding an 'o' to the end of a name was a slip of the finger - fixed
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#24 of 37 Old 10-02-2019, 05:24 PM
 
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This thread highlights the extreme divide between people who trust vaccines and people who do not trust vaccines. Even if teacozy noticed that several of the people who signed the "racism" petition were well known vaccine researchers and proponents, I doubt if it would strike her that there might be something wrong there. All good people are vaccine proponents.



There is no doubt in Teacozy's mind that Dorit is a brilliant woman and an expert on vaccine law. And so on and on.



The Stephan family is the poster child of "evil anti-vaccine parents" who allowed their child to die by not vaccinating and then not getting medical care. Anyone who gives them a hard time is automatically good and anyone who defends them ranges from stupid and misguided to actively trying to undermine vaccines. It is utterly impossible for any vaccine proponent to say anything positive about this family.



The divide is scary.
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I'm noticing something quite suspicious. Every time there *anything* happens to validate the medical autonomy movement - an adverse reaction, a court ruling, a political victory, etc. - somebody **conveniently** uncovers slanderous and scandalous information that usually involves impugning someone's character.

We must be really, really evil people. That or . . . it's fair to say you smell a rat.
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#26 of 37 Old 10-03-2019, 07:25 AM
 
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I'm noticing something quite suspicious. Every time there *anything* happens to validate the medical autonomy movement - an adverse reaction, a court ruling, a political victory, etc. - somebody **conveniently** uncovers slanderous and scandalous information that usually involves impugning someone's character.

We must be really, really evil people. That or . . . it's fair to say you smell a rat.
The same way that every time someone publishes research that makes vaccines look less than perfect it turns out to be junk science, or COI, or something is terribly wrong with the publication. ALWAYS!!!
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The same way that every time someone publishes research that makes vaccines look less than perfect it turns out to be junk science, or COI, or something is terribly wrong with the publication. ALWAYS!!!
We can always count on dorit or offit to make a rebuke statement that will end upn posted in this forum here as the 'explanation for it all' that we should just blindly accept because THEY said so
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#28 of 37 Old 10-03-2019, 08:19 AM
 
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We can always count on dorit or offit to make a rebuke statement that will end upn posted in this forum here as the 'explanation for it all' that we should just blindly accept because THEY said so

Or the Oracle or even Skeptical Rapture. Since both of those dudes post anonymously, I can mock their pseudonyms without being accused of disrespect, right?
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If that young woman in Toronto gets famous, you'll soon hear a story about how she's a covert mobster who runs a chain of brothels somewhere.
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#30 of 37 Old 10-03-2019, 08:38 AM
 
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If that young woman in Toronto gets famous, you'll soon hear a story about how she's a covert mobster who runs a chain of brothels somewhere.

Sounds like a good career choice in our rather odd universe...
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