So who's scared to death of coronavirus? - Page 19 - Mothering Forums
 929Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#541 of 557 Old 11-19-2020, 01:44 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post

I've heard rumors that they are beginning to get slightly concerned.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#542 of 557 Old 11-20-2020, 02:15 AM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
applejuice and Deborah like this.
Tweety_Bird is offline  
#543 of 557 Old 11-20-2020, 09:33 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I've heard rumors that they are beginning to get slightly concerned.
Yes.

Sweden's experiment failed miserably. They had far more deaths per million than their neighbors only to wind up exactly where most of the rest of us are - surging infections and more restrictions.

Quote:
Sweden has the world's 14th worst rate of COVID deaths (out of 214) on the basis of population. Sweden's neighbors, meanwhile, imposed more restrictions on people and businesses and their death rates have been far lower.
And:

Quote:
...In Sweden, health officials told the Financial Times this week they don’t understand why they are facing such a new surge after having gone through a similar one earlier.

Stefan Lofven, the Swedish prime minister, looked shaken as he addressed his nation Monday, announcing some of the kinds of restrictions Sweden had specifically avoided earlier in this pandemic year. Gatherings will be limited to eight people or less. Bars can’t serve alcohol after 10 p.m.

Calling it a “new normal” and warning that things will get worse, Lofven said, “It is a clear and sharp signal to every person in our country as to what applies in the future. Don’t go to the gym, don’t go to the library, don’t have dinner out, don’t have parties — cancel!”
https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020...lofven-vaccine

A vaccine is our best way out of this, as much as many of you may hate to admit it.

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by teacozy; 11-20-2020 at 09:42 PM.
teacozy is offline  
 
#544 of 557 Old 11-21-2020, 10:24 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Yes.

Sweden's experiment failed miserably. They had far more deaths per million than their neighbors only to wind up exactly where most of the rest of us are - surging infections and more restrictions.
And:

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020...lofven-vaccine

A vaccine is our best way out of this, as much as many of you may hate to admit it.
Greetings! Delighted to see you again. I hope you and the little ones are all doing well and thriving.
applejuice and Nazsmum like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#545 of 557 Old 11-21-2020, 03:15 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Alas, many health-care workers have doubts about the speed with which this vaccine has been developed. https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...s-coronavirus/


Throughout the article they keep proclaiming that they are NOT anti-vaccine. But of course they are. Raising concerns about any vaccine at any time for any reason...
applejuice and Hyacinthe like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#546 of 557 Old 11-21-2020, 10:35 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Alas, many health-care workers have doubts about the speed with which this vaccine has been developed. https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...s-coronavirus/
Thanks for the link. I read down through the comments and was fascinated - doctors, biochemists, etc. I guess they could just be claiming those professions, but the comments seemed legit. Not many seem willing to commit without more data, and some seem to want a lot more data than what will probably be available initially.
applejuice and Deborah like this.
Hyacinthe is offline  
#547 of 557 Old 11-22-2020, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,149
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
My son and husband were exposed at a funeral last week....

an attendee was asymptomatic and went to the funeral too....tested regular for work...he works for denver public schools, and even on their website it says employees can return to work with a POSITIVE COVID TEST....schools are closed, but still...the maintenance is still spreading the virus, obviously.


now the attendee has covid symptoms

AND I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THE CONSTANT CONFLICTING INFORMATION ON THIS VIRUS!!!!
applejuice and Deborah like this.
emmy526 is offline  
#548 of 557 Old 11-22-2020, 10:33 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Greetings! Delighted to see you again. I hope you and the little ones are all doing well and thriving.
Thank you! We are all doing well and have been COVID-free (knock on wood). Hope you and your family are doing well too
Deborah and Nazsmum like this.

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is offline  
#549 of 557 Old 11-22-2020, 10:39 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,030
Mentioned: 586 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3684 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Alas, many health-care workers have doubts about the speed with which this vaccine has been developed. https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...s-coronavirus/


Throughout the article they keep proclaiming that they are NOT anti-vaccine. But of course they are. Raising concerns about any vaccine at any time for any reason...
Glad to read that the data they are looking for to feel more confident could be available as soon as next month from the FDA according to that link.

95% efficacy with a sample size of over 60 thousand participants between the two vaccines is pretty remarkable (these were double-blind saline placebo trials to boot).

The earth is not flat | Vaccines work | Chemtrails aren't a thing | Climate change is real #standupforscience
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is offline  
#550 of 557 Old 11-22-2020, 07:26 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Thank you! We are all doing well and have been COVID-free (knock on wood). Hope you and your family are doing well too
I'm fine. My daughter and son-in-law are both fine, but very busy at their respective jobs. My daughter works for a business that distributes organic and local food directly to consumers. As you can imagine, this pandemic has been a great boost to such businesses. And my son-in-law is a speech language pathologist. He is currently working partly in person and partly online. Very busy.



Unfortunately my grandkids are suffering, as are millions of other children, teens and young adults. I'll respect their privacy and not go into the details, but I find it sad that "saving" people from COVID is messing up so many people in other ways.
idler likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#551 of 557 Old 11-23-2020, 12:25 AM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Important Court Ruling:

Recent ruling by the Portuguese Court of Appeal which casts doubt on the reliability of the PCR test. https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/16/latest-news-195/#portuguese-appeals-court-deems-pcr-tests-unreliable

Quote:
In a recent decision, dated November 11, 2020, a Portuguese appeal court ruled against the Azores Regional Health Authority concerning a lower court decision to declare unlawful the quarantining of four persons. Of these, one had tested positive for Covid using a PCR test; the other three were deemed to have undergone a high risk of exposure. Consequently, the Regional Health Authority decided that all four were infectious and a health hazard, which required that they go into isolation. The lower court had ruled against the Health Authority, and the appeal court upheld that ruling with arguments that explicitly endorse the scientific case for the lack of reliability of the PCR tests.

The court’s main points are as follows:
  • A medical diagnosis is a medical act that only a physician is legally qualified to undertake and for which such physician will be solely and entirely responsible. No other person or institution, including government agencies or the courts, has such an authority. It is not up to the Azores Regional Health Authority to declare someone ill, or a health hazard. Only a physician can do that. No one can be declared ill or a health hazard by decree or law, nor as the automatic, administrative consequence of the outcome of a laboratory test, no matter which.
  • From the above, the court concludes that “if carried out with no prior medical observation of the patient, with no participation of a physician certified by the Ordem dos Médicos who would have assessed symptoms and requested the tests/exams deemed necessary, any act of diagnosis, or any act of public health vigilance (such as determining whether a viral infection or a high risk of exposure exist, which the aforementioned concepts subsume) will violate [a number of laws and regulations] and may configure a crime of usurpação de funções [unlawful practice of a profession] in the case said acts are carried out or dictated by someone devoid of the capacity to do so, i.e., by someone who is not a certified physician [to practice medicine in Portugal a degree is not enough, you need to be accepted as qualified to practice medicine by undergoing examination with the Ordem dos Médicos, roughly our equivalent of the UK’s Royal College of Physicians].”
  • In addition, the court rules that the Azores Health Authority violated article 6 of the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights, as it failed to provide evidence that the informed consent mandated by said Declaration had been given by the PCR-tested persons who had complained against the forced quarantine measures imposed on them.
  • From the facts presented to the court, it concluded that no evidentiary proof or even indication existed that the four persons in question had been seen by a doctor, either before or after undertaking the test.
The above would suffice to deem the forced quarantine of the four persons unlawful. The court thought it necessary, however, to add some very interesting considerations about the PCR tests:
  • “Based on the currently available scientific evidence this test [the RT-PCR test] is in and of itself unable to determine beyond reasonable doubt that positivity in fact corresponds to infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, for several reasons, among which two are paramount (to which one would need to add the issue of the gold standard, which, due to that issue’s specificity, will not be considered here): the test’s reliability depends on the number of cycles used; the test’s reliability depends on the viral load present.”
  • Citing Jaafar et al. (2020), the court concludes that “if someone is tested by PCR as positive when a threshold of 35 cycles or higher is used (as is the rule in most laboratories in Europe and the US), the probability that said person is infected is <3%, and the probability that said result is a false positive is 97%.” The court further notes that the cycle threshold used for the PCR tests currently being made in Portugal is unknown [N.B. – I know from acquaintances that in at least some Portuguese labs the threshold is 35 cycles].
  • Citing Surkova et al. (2020)), the court further states that any diagnostic test must be interpreted in the context of the actual probability of disease as assessed prior to the undertaking of the test itself, and expresses the opinion that “in the current epidemiological landscape of the United Kingdom, the likelihood is increasing that Covid 19 tests are returning false positives, with major implications for individuals, the health system and society.”


The court’s summary of the case to rule against the Regional Health Authority’s appeal reads as follows:
  • “Given how much scientific doubt exists — as voiced by experts, i.e., those who matter — about the reliability of the PCR tests, given the lack of information concerning the tests’ analytical parameters, and in the absence of a physician’s diagnosis supporting the existence of infection or risk, there is no way this court would ever be able to determine whether C was indeed a carrier of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, or whether A, B and D had been at a high risk of exposure to it.”
Deborah likes this.

Last edited by Tweety_Bird; 11-23-2020 at 12:30 AM.
Tweety_Bird is offline  
#552 of 557 Old 11-23-2020, 07:35 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Yes.

Sweden's experiment failed miserably. They had far more deaths per million than their neighbors only to wind up exactly where most of the rest of us are - surging infections and more restrictions.



And:



https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020...lofven-vaccine

A vaccine is our best way out of this, as much as many of you may hate to admit it.


vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#553 of 557 Old 11-24-2020, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,149
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
And when it comes down to it i do blame 45 and his ass backwards way of dealing with this since the get go last winter.

This ALL IS HIS FAULT!!!


fucking selfserving piece of rotten flesh that needs to be strung up so all who have covid, or had a family member suffer from it, would be able to publicly flog him in any fashion they pleased......he got royal treatment while his paupers suffer and die left and right....asshole.
emmy526 is offline  
#554 of 557 Old 11-24-2020, 03:01 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
How tech giants are using COVID to take over everything.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...virus-pandemic
Quote:
At the heart of this vision is seamless integration of government with a handful of Silicon Valley giants – with public schools, hospitals, doctor’s offices, police and military all outsourcing (at a high cost) many of their core functions to private tech companies.
I keep trying to tell everyone I know that some real bad times are coming, all prettied up as convenience...and now as "safety" and "protection."
idler and Hyacinthe like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#555 of 557 Old 11-24-2020, 08:09 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 18,389
Mentioned: 373 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Glad to read that the data they are looking for to feel more confident could be available as soon as next month from the FDA according to that link.

95% efficacy with a sample size of over 60 thousand participants between the two vaccines is pretty remarkable (these were double-blind saline placebo trials to boot).

There were a number of concerns raised at this FDA committee meeting:
Quote:
Dr. Luigi Notarangelo, a committee member who is a chief researcher at the National Institutes of Health, minced no words as he articulated several of the critiques.
Notarangelo said measures of vaccine effectiveness included in an FDA document the committee was asked to review have two problems.
“First of all, they really are biased — skewed towards mild disease,” he said. “Mild disease may not mean very much.”
“The other problem with those efficacy measures is that most of them are really subjective,” he said. “And I think that’s a major concern. I mean, we’re relying basically upon reporting from the subjects without any objective validation of what they’re reporting.”
“I think children at this point should not be considered for use of this vaccine until there is sufficient evidence” that it’s safe for them, “and what we’ve been presented today does not provide that,” Notarangelo said.
Without sufficient racial minority representation in the clinical trials, “the net effect will be that perhaps the white population might be protected, and we will only see cases of severe COVID among the Black [population], which would be a total disaster,” he added.

and

Quote:
Dr. Hayley Altman-Gans, a professor of pediatrics at Stanford University Medical Center, painted a picture of the clinical trials as deeply flawed. She spoke of “hugely missed opportunities” and said, “We really need to be thinking about this differently.”
“I really feel like they haven’t gone far enough in terms of the safety outline” and “efficacy as well,” she said. What’s more, “nobody’s collecting as far as I can tell” certain important data.
“One of the things I have not heard much about during this conversation is infection,” said committee member Kathryn Holmes, a professor emerita at the University of Colorado School of Medicine. “I’d like to see how we could actually be measuring infection rather than just mild disease. … We should be looking to see what can prevent infection because that is the rubric which would prevent spread through the community most effectively and that is what would protect our elderly as well.”

Quote:
Dr. Michael Kurilla, an expert on infectious diseases and a director of clinical innovation at the National Institutes of Health, said a standard the FDA has set for coronavirus vaccine authorization — 50% efficacy — doesn’t make sense in all situations. For health care workers and staff in long-term care facilities, a vaccine “that would take them merely from a mild infection to potentially an asymptomatic infection where they still might be infectious doesn’t seem like it’s something worthy” of an EUA, he said.
“The minimum has to be much, much higher in terms of having a general overall public health impact,” he said.

Lots of concerns being raised at that meeting.
Quote:
Under the proposed FDA standard, “we could have a vaccine that seems to do well, meets the 50% test, and it’s effective at avoiding mild cases but actually does very little to address what we really care about, which is serious disease and death,” said Sheldon Toubman, a legal assistance attorney in New Haven, Connecticut, and the advisory committee’s consumer representative.
Toubman also challenged the FDA’s stated openness to granting an EUA based on two months of observations.
“There could be adverse effects we don’t know about, and so isn’t two months a little short?” he asked.
Toubman recommended that the FDA not grant EUA for coronavirus vaccines.
FDA officials rebutted some of the committee members’ concerns — saying, for example, that focusing on more severe cases would require enrolling an unrealistically large number of people in the clinical trials.

You were saying?

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...) #teamvaxchoice
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Deborah is offline  
#556 of 557 Old 11-24-2020, 11:48 PM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post
And when it comes down to it i do blame 45 and his ass backwards way of dealing with this since the get go last winter.

This ALL IS HIS FAULT!!!

Nonsense Roll the Tape:
Deborah and Nazsmum like this.

Last edited by Tweety_Bird; Yesterday at 06:32 AM.
Tweety_Bird is offline  
#557 of 557 Old Yesterday, 08:05 PM
 
Tweety_Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Tweety_Bird is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,074

9 members and 1,065 guests
barnetta , bimaster , K703 , lauritagoddess , lermontq , omarinbox1888 , RhiannonRain , satkins , surecene8
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.