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-   -   Mask Madness (https://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1614913-mask-madness.html)

Tweety_Bird 06-01-2020 07:50 PM

Mask Madness
 
What is it with people who expect those of us who are not sick to wear a mask to protect them.

Surely if they are concerned they can wear a mask.

Certain employers are even requiring their (non-medical) employees to wear masks that are not designed to be worn for long periods.

Wearing a mask is not benign. The disposable and cloth masks impair breathing.

I recently read a comment by an individual who mentioned that both herself and co-worker felt light-headed etc. after wearing masks for their full shift.

Important response by a doctor regarding wearing masks:
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-40

kathymuggle 06-01-2020 09:37 PM

So, I actually had trouble wrapping my head around this for a while. People were saying the mask does not protect the wearer, it protects others. I did not get it - if virus particles were big enough to get out of the mask, then they were big enough to get in. An article eventually explained though that masks protect others in case you are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic. That sort of makes sense. I really think they screwed up big time in terms of mask usage. First they said we did not need masks, then they said we did, sort of. The messaging has been pretty horrible and confusing.

I have yet to wear a mask. Canada has less mask wearers than the USA, and I live rurally, and rural citizens wears mask less often than urbanites...for obvious reason.

I live in Ontario. There are currently about 4000 unresolved cases in Ontario. 65% are in Toronto (I am not in Toronto) and I am not sure what percentage are in long term care facilities, but it is huge. This is all to say I do not think I have Covid. There are 14 000 000 people in Ontario, and the math does point to me currently having it. If the math changes, I might make different decisions. I am more than willing to stay 6 feet away from people as well.

All this is to say know your area and make your decisions accordingly.

I do think mask wearing might offer some protection, but I am not going to do it. And yeah, it is not my job to wear a mask when the risk is pretty darn low to make someone else feel (not *be* in any appreciable way) safer. Masks are gross in many ways and I think they do have some health ramifications. I will appease peoples worries by staying 6 feet away from them. That is what I am going to do. I cannot really abide shaming of non-mask wearers either. All these "I wear a mask for you" post on FB and the like are annoying - they remind me of the "I vaccinate for you" posts.

emmy526 06-02-2020 07:03 AM

Anymore, mask wearing is equal to vaccination

ohhhhhhhhh, the horrrrrorrs!!! YOU went in the store/public WITHOUT A MASK???? OMG -- your'e outside WITHOUT A MASK????!!!!

The new 'status symbol'

Funny thing is, the people who say wearing one impedes THEIR RIGHTS, are the same ones demanding forced vaccination, or deny women certain procedures.....SMH


As was explained to me -- if someone is carrying this virus unknowinlgy, and they sneeze without a mask, that umbrella of spray goes up to 40ft...without my mask on, that spray will come down on me like rain, all over my face, with me inhaling the droplets....with MY mask on, my intake of spray is diminished - that is supposed to be the purpose of healthy wearing a mask.

emmy526 06-02-2020 07:04 AM

And i guess no one told all the protesters to wear masks, either...so we'll truly see whether numbers go up or not

i'm still waiting to see how memorial day pans out in terms of spikes in illness in southern states

kathymuggle 06-02-2020 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmy526 (Post 19766465)
And i guess no one told all the protesters to wear masks, either...so we'll truly see whether numbers go up or not

i'm still waiting to see how memorial day pans out in terms of spikes in illness in southern states

Ditto. Very curious to see if there will be large spikes in places that are reopening and in places highly affected by rioting and/or protesting.

Deborah 06-03-2020 01:32 PM

I've been watching for "spikes" following various incidents:
Wisconsin Supreme Court decision. There have been news stories claiming an increase in cases, but nothing solid. Most likely the result of more testing rather than an increase in illness.

Wisconsin voting a few weeks back. Someone did an actual study on this. Insignificant increase in actual sickness.



Georgia and Florida. No real increases. A few news stories claiming increases but actual data? Nope.


California beach invasions a while back. Nope.



And on it goes.


Not to mention that schools have reopened in Denmark, Norway, Austria, Finland and probably more, without any repercussions. Sweden kept their schools open throughout. Sweden did have significant numbers of cases in homes for the elderly, but as far as I know not a single case related to their schools being open.

kathymuggle 06-03-2020 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah (Post 19766513)


Not to mention that schools have reopened in Denmark, Norway, Austria, Finland and probably more, without any repercussions. Sweden kept their schools open throughout. Sweden did have significant numbers of cases in homes for the elderly, but as far as I know not a single case related to their schools being open.

Well, Quebec re-opened schools and daycare off the island of Montreal almost a month ago.

There has been a spike in cases - but here is what is going on.

A parent or tacher or someone has Covid. The whole school is tested and drum roll please, some people come back positive. If those people are kids, they are likely asymptomatic. I thought this line from this article was interesting:

"About half of more than 200,000 eligible children have gone back to school in the province. Areas of Quebec outside the greater Montreal region have added new cases at a rate of 44 per 100,000 people since school restarted. Those regions have an overall rate of cases one-sixth of the Montreal hotspot but still worse than any other Canadian province." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...schools-since/


My nephew had Covid. He lives in a group home with other young adults with autism. A staff worker brought it in, everyone in the house was tested, as was staff. 5/6 of the people who live in the home tested positive, with only one showing symptoms (cough and runny nose). The average age of the residents is likely around 20.

As a complete aside, but mask related, I really think the expectation that people wear mask must be very hard on those with autism to understand. I also feel for the hard of hearing who lip read. I much prefer the spit guard kind of masks some people use.

Deborah 06-03-2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 19766515)
Well, quebec has re-opened schools and daycare off the island of Montreal almost a month ago.

There has been a spike in cases - but here is what is going on.

A parent or tacher or someone has Covid. The whole school is tested and drum roll please, some people come back positive. If those people are kids, they are likely asymptomatic. I thought this line from this article was interesting:

"About half of more than 200,000 eligible children have gone back to school in the province. Areas of Quebec outside the greater Montreal region have added new cases at a rate of 44 per 100,000 people since school restarted. Those regions have an overall rate of cases one-sixth of the Montreal hotspot but still worse than any other Canadian province." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...schools-since/


My nephew had Covid. He lives in a group home with other young adults with autism. A staff worker brought it in, everyone in the house was tested, as was staff. 5/6 of the people who live in the home tested positive, with only one every showing symptoms (cough and runny nose). The average age of the residents is likely around 20.

As a complete aside, by mask specific, I really think the expectation that people wear mask must be very hard on those with autism to understand. I also feel for the hard of hearing who lip read. I much prefer the spit guard kind of masks some people use.


That is interesting. One of the ways that cases "increase" is by focusing testing in hot spots and also not showing how many tests it takes to reach a certain number of cases. It really looks to me as though this illness is becoming steadily less communicable. Either the virus is losing steam or more people are immune or both.



I think the mask thing is uncomfortable for everyone but seriously uncomfortable for people with one or another communication challenge. Small children must be struggling a bit because signals they depend on are out of sight.

Nazsmum 06-03-2020 06:20 PM

I'm working w/o a mask. We never closed...all Neg. (work with kids)

kathymuggle 06-03-2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah (Post 19766517)
That is interesting. One of the ways that cases "increase" is by focusing testing in hot spots and also not showing how many tests it takes to reach a certain number of cases. It really looks to me as though this illness is becoming steadily less communicable. Either the virus is losing steam or more people are immune or both.



I think the mask thing is uncomfortable for everyone but seriously uncomfortable for people with one or another communication challenge. Small children must be struggling a bit because signals they depend on are out of sight.

Right from the beginning, I have never relied on cases as a gauge of how many people have COVID.

If two areas have the same real rate of COVID, but protocol for testing is very different, the numbers will highly skew to who tests more.

I prefer to look at mortality rate - and to a lesser degree, hospitalization rate.

Even mortality rates have issues, and how they are counted varies from country to country. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...and-when-67543

Deborah 06-03-2020 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 19766523)
Right from the beginning, I have never relied on cases as a gauge of how many people have COVID.

If two areas have the same real rate of COVID, but protocol for testing is very different, the numbers will highly skew to who tests more.

I prefer to look at mortality rate - and to a lesser degree, hospitalization rate.

Even mortality rates have issues, and how they are counted varies from country to country. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...and-when-67543


Hospitalization rates also have issues. Do you remember Ethical Skeptic. Guy has a web-site. I ran into him again on Twitter, where he has been posting incredibly detained charts tracking the Covid pandemic from many angles. I think he is being paid big bucks to track all this and then shares some of the data as a public service or something.



Anyway, starting a few days ago he pointed out that there are a lot of people described as "in hospital" but the medical supplies usually used up for people in hospital are not matching the numbers. Someone came up with a great term: hospitals are "hoteling" people. Basically, they need the money OR there isn't a safe place for the people to go where they won't infect people. But it would be a lot less expensive to let people convalesce in a hotel. Hugely less expensive.



I've learned a lot lately on the ingenious ways in which numbers can be twisted.

Deborah 06-03-2020 07:54 PM

Let's see if I can paste one of his charts and here is the commentary: "As we can see here, our Covid Fatalities as this point has a snowball's chance of being confirmed as valid going forward. Our Covid season totals projection is coming near to a close, within 1-2% of our projection 2 months ago."
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZoGdxGW...g&name=900x900

Tweety_Bird 06-04-2020 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 19766515)
I much prefer the spit guard kind of masks some people use.


Do you mean similar to these shields made in Canada? https://capshield.ca/

They attach to a cap.

kathymuggle 06-04-2020 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweety_Bird (Post 19766531)
Do you mean similar to these shields made in Canada? https://capshield.ca/

They attach to a cap.

yeah, or something like it.

I have seen a few kicking around :)

kathymuggle 06-06-2020 11:57 AM

https://scontent.fyto2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...27&oe=5F00159C


Sorry - my browser is ancient and does not allow copy and paste all the time - worth the click! Funny graph on masks.

Deborah 06-06-2020 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 19766667)
https://scontent.fyto2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...27&oe=5F00159C


Sorry - my browser is ancient and does not allow copy and paste all the time - worth the click! Funny graph on masks.


Pretty good analysis. Individual results may vary...

Claudia Chapman 06-10-2020 10:38 AM

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6923e4_w

The real toll of the disease isn't fully expressed in death rates or hospitalizations. It includes the large number of people who are still sick with neurological and cardiovascular symptoms from Covid three months or more after contracting it.

My friend in Massachusetts got it in February. Homeschooler. Natural health care. Spiritual. Healthy. Uses herbs and nutrition as primary means of treating dis-ease. And still sick. Really sick. Was brought in to the hospital in April because she looked like she was having a stroke while she had Covid. No stroke but the infamous Covid toes syndrome started the next day. Piercing pains and numbness in fingers and toes. Fevers. Chills. Exhaustion. It's still going on and it's a real "thing" that's associated with Covid 19. They don't know if it's a permanent condition — that it damages the nervous system.

Wearing a mask when you're in the grocery store, for most people, isn't a hardship. It's something you do for the community. If Covid hasn't hit your community hard, you want to keep it that way. Think it can't happen? Look at the Navajo community. One person spread it through basically the entire community. They're as isolated and rural as it's possible to be, but one big religious gathering and it started a wave of cases that has devastated the community, and has spread to the Apaches, Zuni pueblo and some of the other pueblos as well.

Please don't equate mask wearing to vaccination. Mask wearing is non-invasive for the vast majority of us and it helps keep people safe if everyone does it. Refusing to do it because freedom actually pushes us closer to government intervention and forced vaccinations and quarantines. The whole re-opening thing would happen a lot faster of people would wear masks.

emmy526 06-10-2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

The whole re-opening thing would happen a lot faster of people would wear masks.
Maybe someone should tell Sacramento, where NO ONE is wearing masks, no stores are taking ANY precautions of any kind, either...
I guess our state capitol missed that memo

Down here in Sonoma county - no mask, no entry., and all forms of precautions taken

emmy526 06-10-2020 12:54 PM

Quote:

Please don't equate mask wearing to vaccination. Mask wearing is non-invasive for the vast majority of us and it helps keep people safe if everyone does it.
on the flip side -
please don't equate vaccination to mask wearing...vaccination is non invasive for the vast majority, safe, effective, and helps keep people 'safe' if everyone does it.

The argument goes both ways. I've seen it written many times in many different media.

kathymuggle 06-10-2020 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudia Chapman (Post 19766831)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6923e4_w


Please don't equate mask wearing to vaccination. Mask wearing is non-invasive for the vast majority of us and it helps keep people safe if everyone does it. Refusing to do it because freedom actually pushes us closer to government intervention and forced vaccinations and quarantines. The whole re-opening thing would happen a lot faster of people would wear masks.

I looked over the past page are so, and while some parallels are being drawn between mask use and vaccine issues, no one is saying masks are as invasive as vaccines (at least I hope they are not!) Vaccine are typically injected into humans, often humans too young to consent, and there are a whole plethora of risks associated with vaccines, many of which are hard to measure.

kathymuggle 06-10-2020 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudia Chapman (Post 19766831)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6923e4_w
....The whole re-opening thing would happen a lot faster of people would wear masks.

Not sure that is true - at all. Re-opening seems to correlate to politics more than anything else - and what keeps the electorate happy.

Deborah 06-10-2020 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudia Chapman (Post 19766831)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6923e4_w

The real toll of the disease isn't fully expressed in death rates or hospitalizations. It includes the large number of people who are still sick with neurological and cardiovascular symptoms from Covid three months or more after contracting it.


And the real cost of the lockdowns isn't expressed just in unemployment numbers.

kathymuggle 06-10-2020 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah (Post 19766849)
And the real cost of the lockdowns isn't expressed just in unemployment numbers.

Opioid deaths are up something like 25% in Ontario and 39!!! in BC during the Pandemic. Will get source if asked (think it is CBC)

Tweety_Bird 06-10-2020 08:43 PM

A couple of videos by a retired British doctor regarding face masks:


Tweety_Bird 06-10-2020 08:44 PM

A parody song about face masks:


Curious how nurses and doctors would have the time to choreograph dances on tiktok, if they are purported to be inundated with corona virus patients.

emmy526 06-11-2020 07:57 AM

And let's not forget all the suicides happening, and OD'ing occuring during this time, too

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/h...de-health.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...h-coronavirus/

https://www.usnews.com/news/healthie...virus-pandemic


then there's the segment who ingested bleach/disinfectant

Tweety_Bird 06-14-2020 11:29 PM


Tweety_Bird 06-26-2020 07:41 PM

Another great video by Carl:
Includes short education segment towards the end, i.e. a Brit correcting a couple of Americans.

emmy526 07-02-2020 06:28 AM

Here's a new one --''my mask won't work unless you wear one too''

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


Yes, actually said to a friend of mine

sunshinemama91 07-02-2020 01:05 PM

My husband and I have this thing where we wonder if it's a way to get people to denounce their faith on the sly. People have more faith in a man made piece of cloth and chemical sanitizer than they do in God and expect everyone else to do the same. Same with vaccines. All of the man made "hope" in the world is utterly useless, nothing inside of creation can save a soul. When they start to see efforts failing miserably, its gonna get more extreme. It starts with mask compliance and ends in forced vaccination and tracking chips. We are just watching it happen.

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