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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121001601.html

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Others said the findings were disturbing because most alternative treatments have not been scientifically validated and those that have been rigorously tested have overwhelmingly been found to be ineffective.

"They are either unproven or disproven," said Wallace Sampson, founding editor of the Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine. "Acupuncture is a placebo. Homeopathy is one step above fraud. It goes on and on. The fact that they are so widely used is evidence for how gullible large segments of our society are."

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"In addition to the fact that these things are unproven and potentially dangerous, they also feed the mentality that you can forgo proven treatments in favor of these magic potions," said Seth Asser, a pediatrician and consultant to Children's Healthcare Is a Legal Duty, a nonprofit group that opposes faith healing and other nontraditional medical practices.

Quote:
But Nahin said government-funded research into such therapies is useful, citing a federal study that concluded that St. John's wort was ineffective. After the results were released, use of the herbal remedy dropped sharply, he said.

"The research is working," he said. "It's doing what it's supposed to do, which is provide reliable information to the public so they can make decisions."
thoughts?
 

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I think it's cutting into profits a bit too much for their comfort. I do realize that some alternative therapies work better than others, but there are many government studies that are questionable. Their disdain for alternative therapies is dripping off their words.
 

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I agree with them to a point. I DO think that homeopathy is one step away from fraud.

BUT I also know that MANY drugs come about because of plants that have desired effects. St. Johns Wort wasn't found to be ineffective, it was shown to have little effect. It's ok for small depressions.

White Willow bark has the same constituancy that asprin does.

Garlic can be used to treat some infections.

TTO is being studied at the Mayo Clinic for use with MRSA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yeah thats what i think. usually i like the post.. but this article made me grit my teeth. basically saying that alternative medicines are not miracles cures and therefore western medicine is better.. the part about acupuncture was off base to i think. i didn't know it was 'proven' to be just a placebo effect.
 

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I agree with them to a point also. Most alternative treatments haven't been given the kind of testing and studies that prove their effectiveness that is typically expected of health treatments. Having said that, many alternative treatments for limited duration illnesses are not going to cause dangerous side effects so at worst you wasted your money. I still take homeopathics, sometimes. But you didn't see me running to Mexico for alternative treatment when I cancer like my alt med practitioner wanted either. You have to choose treatments selectively and individually on a case by case basis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kalirush View Post
I think so many people are using alternative medicine in America because they have no access to "regular" healthcare.
i don't think that at all. we have healthcare and we use alt. medicine all of the time. not really homeopathy but other healing methods. i think they are significantly safer and have been tested by people for a very long time ... just not by 'scientists' with an agenda.
 

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Many of the people I know who use herbals do so because it's cheaper than going to the doctor.

Of course, most of the people who I know (myself included) have done their OWN research/study in herbalism.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kalirush View Post
I think so many people are using alternative medicine in America because they have no access to "regular" healthcare.
So many of the drugs/therapy cost more than western medicine so I don't really see this as true.

However Western Medicine often blows women off and tells them their systems are all in their head because their numbers fall with in "rang" on some chart. They don't treat your systems and just let you continue to suffer. Also I know many people who have asked to have their vitamin and mineral level's checked and doctors refuse. They refuse to check many peoples thyroid and if they do they do awful things such as radiate them. They jump to surgery IMMEDIATELY without giving you any other options and give you the worse case scenario and tell you you will die if you don't! They try to browbeat and bully you into do what they want and treat you was a mindless drone who is too stupid to be a part of your own health care.

THAT Is why so many people use alternative medicine.
 

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It has to make you wonder though- I assume when they say "Alternative" medicine they mean anything that doesn't involve a regular MD or medical practice.

Also with alternative therapies you're going to have people using things ineffectively- or resorting to options that don't really address their medical problems. Notice they listed taking vitamins for God's sake, that's ridiculous.

Like if I had a hernia and I heard fish oil was a miracle pill and started taking it, they'd say that I was an alternative medicine user and a shmuck because the treatment failed.

There are a lot of broken people out there trying to figure their own stuff out because of no insurance, and some people have been so wounded by the medical beast in this country that they are terrified to get treated.

The 3rd leading cause of death in this country is medical treatment. Going to the hospital, getting surgery, or taking a drug as prescribed is the top 3rd way to die here.

I'll be taking my fishoil...and avoiding the hospital.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
yup ... i also wonder if CPMs and homebirth are alt. medicine. how about dietary changes? what i don't get is people the group against alt. and faith healing.. if you are an adult (and in most cases a child's parent) what right do they have to try and force you to comply to their opinion of an ideal treatment?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
yup ... i also wonder if CPMs and homebirth are alt. medicine. how about dietary changes? what i don't get is people the group against alt. and faith healing.. if you are an adult (and in most cases a child's parent) what right do they have to try and force you to comply to their opinion of an ideal treatment?
I think it's mainly big pharma putting out all the scare tactics. They don't want to lose money.

They want us all to need drugs. They are doing a really good job with this, keep pushing crap foods and then handing us drugs as our health deteriorates...

And the old school old boy's club MD's have a hard time letting go of their God complexes, they think they know it all. Birth is not safe for mother's without a doctor....and all that crap.

They need to know their place in the grand scheme of the whole healthcare enchilada if you ask me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
lol i agree completely.... some people say its a tin foil hat thing.. i think its a
thing. they give crap food recommendations and then give you pills to 'fix' the health problems you get from those recommendations.. then they put you on a new diet to go along with those pills that gives you new problems.. just incase the first problem does get fixed... or not.. they can give you new pills for this new thing you've got wrong with you.

the idea that doctors (as in the higher ups in the political and economical side of medicine) and pharmaceutical companies have any interest in making us healthy is laughable. if we are healthy they are out of a job.
 

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Well, I disagree with this.

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the idea that doctors ... have any interest in making us healthy is laughable.
I think most individual doctors ARE interested in making people better.

Now the medical industrial complex? Not so much. But as individuals? And even institutions? Yeah, I think so.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pynki View Post
Well, I disagree with this.

I think most individual doctors ARE interested in making people better.

Now the medical industrial complex? Not so much. But as individuals? And even institutions? Yeah, I think so.
Well I think I could have phrased that better. I didn't mean to just single out doctors.

I think doctors are being typical sheep, following the status quo instead of using original thought to help people.

It's a machine, the medical system so most doctors have to work within the machine or it spits them out, so I do realize it isn't always so cut and dry.

A lot of doctors do have a god complex.

Take type II diabetes, that's so curable it isn't even funny.

Doctors hand out meds and say "eat better". They don't usually say "btw you don't have to have diabetes, you could reverse it right now".

There are a few, but most of them don't bother. They either think we're too stupid to help ourselves (and unfortunately it is often the case) or that medicine and big pharma will save us.

It's not working. Heart attacks, cancer, and diabetes rates are skyrocketting despite all these new miracle drugs.

Why is that I wonder?

Frankenfood instead of whole foods? Record rates of animal protein consumption at the expense of disease fighting veggies?

The truth is we are sick because of the knife and fork here in America where we're suffering from diseases of affluence.

Americans don't want to hear it so doctors don't say it. We want what we want no matter the cost and then we want a drug to cover everything.

I'm getting off topic and this could veer even more into the horrid way industry puppeteers the FDA and The American Cancer Society etc and so forth.

Greed is king. Alternative medicine isn't as lucrative as big pharma.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
individual doctors.. yes... but the medical industrial complex? no. and the problem is that doctors are educated by that complex. research is conducted by that complex. if they are not looking past that they are not helping people. RIC and vaccines are great examples of that... doctors should not just support the status quo.. they need to give the best patient care they can regardless of the status quo... and the majority of them do not.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post
or taking a drug as prescribed is the top 3rd way to die here.

Except that a good number of people (I won't say a majority since I have no evidence, it's just a feeling) don't take a drug as prescribed. They take it until they feel better and then 'forget' to take the rest. For many issues, ie a bacterial infection, it is not only ineffective to stop before the end of the full course, it can be deadly.

I have nothing against alt. treatments. Here in Canada it's not too difficult to find doctors that support alt. treatments. But I do think that some people over glorify them by making them out to a magical cure all. I don't doubt that some of them work, but when you completely forgo other methods of medical care in favour of alt. treatments, then your only look at half the possibilities. Same as if you forgo all alt. treatments in favour of mainstream medical treatments, your only getting half the possibilities.

There are alt. treatments that have been proven beneficial.

Now here's something curious. I was looking up night blindness a while ago and apparently the old, old treatment was to drip liver juices in your eye and then eat the liver. Ironically, it will help some people with that particular issue, not the juice in the eye part though. But one cause of night blindness is a lack of vitamin A... well guess what liver has 722% daily recommended intake of? Vitamin A.
 

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What gets me is that they're lumping "yoga for back pain relief" in with "using herbs instead of chemotherapy for cancer."

A great many people use "alternative therapies" IN ADDITION to conventional medical treatment, not as a substitute. Or they're using alternative therapies for things such as colds that are self-limiting and not dangerous, or pain that can't be effectively treated via drugs anyway. Both are situations that ANY medical doctor would likely say "it may not help, but it can't hurt."

They even included probiotics in their list of "alternative medicines." I forget if it was the sheet the children's hospital gave me, or the printout from the pharmacist when I picked up DS' antibiotics when he first came home, but a "conventional medical establishment" actually suggested probiotic use to limit the gut damage from antibiotic use. I mean, they didn't provide probiotics in the hospital, and the sheet suggested that probiotics would merely reduce the chance of diarhea rather than boost immunity, but they did recomend it! So anybody following that conventional medical advice would be listed as "using alternative medicine" in this study!

I'm also bothered by the studies on "alternative therapies." Often times they use doses way too small and then conclude the supplement is inneffective. Or they take a study that concludes "vitamin E doesn't prevent prostate cancer" and jump to the conclusion "vitamin E us useless" when it's likely that the vitamin helps prevent and/or treat other disorders (and possibly that it would prevent prostate cancer in higher doses or in combination with other vitamins.)

The article is implying that 1/3 of adults are avoiding conventional medicine when the data mentioned doesn't support that.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post
Take type II diabetes, that's so curable it isn't even funny.

Doctors hand out meds and say "eat better". They don't usually say "btw you don't have to have diabetes, you could reverse it right now".

There are a few, but most of them don't bother. They either think we're too stupid to help ourselves (and unfortunately it is often the case) or that medicine and big pharma will save us.
...or they just don't know themselves. My stepdad is having blood sugar issues and the nutritionist he consulted with all but called him a liar when he described his diet. My mom thinks the issue is actually with his blood pressure meds. So, now he's on meds for both his blood pressure and his blood sugar. My bff has an uncle who was on multiple medications for his blood sugar, and his doctor was talking about adding insulin. She (my bff) talked to him, and recommended some dietary changes. He resisted for a long time, because his doctor was down on it. He was freaked about starting insulin, so he gave it a shot...and there's no more talk about insulin. He's off all his meds, except for one for cholesterol...and the only blood sugar spikes (still within an okay range) that he has each day are noticeably tied to when he takes his doses of that med. His doctor, with all the best intentions in the world, would have had him on insulin now...and he has no blood sugar problem at all.

One of the things I loved about seeing a midwife was that she'd ask me what I was eating, and what I was craving, and discuss my nutritional needs based on my answers. Seeing a doctor, I get "are you taking a prenatal?" and was actually told a couple of pregnancies ago that I have to, because "it's not possible for a pregnant woman to get adequate nutrition from food alone". She's a very, very caring, concerned doctor. She's paid for supplies a relative of mine needed for her kids out of her own pocket. She's got a great rep with other doctors, patients and nursing staff in the area...but she doesn't think a pregnant woman can stay healthy and grow a healthy baby without taking a pill...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
the idea that doctors and pharmaceutical companies have any interest in making us healthy is laughable. if we are healthy they are out of a job.
As a cancer survivor and as a person married to someone that is alive to day thanks to bypass surgery, that is not my experience at all.
 
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