[GoodWillHunter]

HELP! Last year, back in August? I was helping my oldest son clean his room and I ran across several printouts of hardcore porn pics. I calmly looked at him and said, "Sweetie, what's this?" and he burst into tears. I held him and told him it's totally normal to want to know what a woman looks like and totally normal to find these pictures attractive. However, I don't feel that hardcore porn is appropriate for an 11 year old, yk? I feel it's just too much for them to comprehend or understand or anything. Also I don't want him thinking that all women are like the women in the pictures. Most women don't have that kind of body, lol. I gave him the option of getting rid of it or keeping it (!) and he said he wanted to get rid of everything.<br><br>
So, I thought we were done... but apparently not. Last Saturday, I was cleaning out his room in preparation for new furniture (whack my hand) and guess what I found? More hardcore porn. And this stuff was GRAPHIC. I just don't know what to do. It's not BAD... but... it is inappropriate for him, I think. He's only 11.5 and that's a lot for someone that age to wrap his brain around... I don't know what to do... I don't want him to think he's bad for having these feelings because he's NOT bad. He's a fabulous kid.<br><br>
But, also some of the pic were of "hot teens" and, while that may be 18 or 19, he was downloading these at my parents' house... And y'know, we had a "family friend" get in trouble for child pornography (real child porn, too. It was awful). And we were worried about my DAD getting in trouble for getting illegal porn.<br><br>
I don't mind him looking at scantily clad women... that's totally cool in my book, but I feel hardcore is way too much. Help?

 

[Yoshua]

agree 100% with the hardcore, and what you did the first time is good and I would keep doing it as you find his stashes explaining to him that hard core is not appropriate and if he chooses to look at it when he gets older that is his personal choice.<br><br><br>
My dad's solution, not saying it was the best and I won't be following suit, was to leave his subscription to playboy laying around his house, granted we didn't live with him full time, and so long as we weren't 'caught' looking we didn't get in trouble. He knew we looked, he knew we knew he knew, and so long as we didn't get 'caught' we didn't get in trouble.<br><br>
I had a brother 3 years older so my brother was 15 and I was about 12 when that was going on but my dad always exclaimed that hard core was filth and playboy was classy.<br><br><br>
All that being said you can't stifle curiousity, you can just set ground rules for your house. And if this was my household his alone time on the grandparents computer would be removed. Period. It is not ok to browse porn at the grand parents house.<br><br><br><br>
I like what you did the first time around, but I personally wouldn't give him the option of keeping it. I would bring it up to him with him there, let him know you weren't snooping but you DID find it and let him know it is not ok to have hard core porn in the house. Then ask him if he wants a subscription to Maxim maybe? My dad got us 'men's mags' like maxim and sport illustrated when we were young/pre teens too.

 

[MillingNome]

Yeah, it sounds kind of young to be having those pictures in your head. Best thing might be to not let him on computer unless it is in a common area with people around. Also, depending on if you want to let him know you found his "stash", you might want to remind that there are things that can get you in trouble on the computer and maybe it would not be so good if grandpa has to explain to the feds why he was looking at child porn (not from personal experience but teen porn and child porn tend to come up on the same searches so it is possible there your ds could have pulled some of it up on grandpa's computer).

 

[BelgianSheepDog]

Am PMing you, I know someone with personal experience but don't feel OK sharing publically since they aren't the one sharing it...

 

[GoodWillHunter]

Since the first time, I had my parents put a filter on their PCs(all four of them). Net nanny, IIRC. At our home, the computer is in our bedroom, and the door is always open. I would know. We also have a filter as well.

 

[mammastar2]

He was able to download them at your parents' despite the net nanny?? I don't have any experience with them, but if so, that's too bad.<br><br>
I would bring it up with him again, discuss your concerns, and also highlight the legality and getting grandpa in trouble. If he's old enough to be curious, he's old enough to have a proper discussion about 'big picture' issues around hardcore porn, and why you have a problem with him looking at it - and involving his grandpa.

 

[SusanElizabeth]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Yoshua</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7993572"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My dad's solution, not saying it was the best and I won't be following suit, was to leave his subscription to playboy laying around his house, granted we didn't live with him full time, and so long as we weren't 'caught' looking we didn't get in trouble. He knew we looked, he knew we knew he knew, and so long as we didn't get 'caught' we didn't get in trouble.</div>
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I had to smile when I read your post. My father did exactly the same thing with the Playboy subscription. I was one of five children, and, although I was girl, I have to admit that my sister and I would go into my parents' bedroom when they weren't around and read it together. My brother probably did the same thing. The thing that I took away from the experience of looking at Playboy and some of the other books about sex that my parents kept, was the idea that sex was a lot of fun and very enjoyable.<br><br>
so -- back to GoodWillHunter's post -- To a certain extent, I think interest in porn is normal. I can see where the "hard core" stuff is disturbing, so I don't really have any good advice about that but I do think that your son looking at this is not inconsistent with the "fabulous kid" that you describe (and I'm sure he is!)<br><br>
***I wanted to add -- I think looking at porn on his grandparent's computer is a really bad idea. I would not let him use the computer there.

 

[GoodWillHunter]

Just for clairfication the hardcore stuff he had had been printed <i>last</i> year when he initially printed out the pictures. I guess he had a "secret" stash. Recently, he'd been spending more time upstairs in his room, "reading". And usually, he's downstairs with the rest of us, soooooo... even though I really was in there, cleaning, I was wondering if there was another stash... and of course, I came across it. I wasn't actively digging, I just was cleaning out what appeared to be paper trash.<br><br>
So, to recap, he didn't download this with NetNanny in operation. It was last year. I think he had put some somewhere... and either forgot about it, or neglected to tell me.<br><br>
The Playboy Idea is a grand one and I will discuss it with my husband and see what he thinks. I mean, we love sex (lol), and are anything but prudish or whatever... we are very open and that's how I want it to be. I grew up in a household where sex was nasty or dirty or gross. That's not how I want my kids to feel.

 

[MamaWindmill]

Well, here's my take, and I may be the only one who feels this way: from what you're telling us, you have a great kid, these pictures aren't disturbing (graphic, yes, disturbing, no), they were not printed recently, and he's not behaving in an inappropriate manner. I would say maybe get rid of them and just drop the subject - unless you feel he is developing a problem, I also think any forays into his room should be carefully considered first.<br><br>
My husband, from over my shoulder: "You should just do what my mom always did: leave the porn on my bed with a note saying 'get rid of these'." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Honestly, he sounds fine. I understand your feelings about objectification, but I also think that, as women, we have to remember that this is a delicate time in a boy's life, and having to talk to his mom about his sexual thoughts as they're developing might be a huge source of embarrassment for him.<br><br>
I can't say I really agree with the Playboy idea, frankly. It might seem odd to him to suddenly find that around the house after his mother threw away his porn - it sends very mixed messages, IMO.

 

[Legato_bluesummers]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MamaWindmill</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7998805"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, here's my take, and I may be the only one who feels this way: from what you're telling us, you have a great kid, these pictures aren't disturbing (graphic, yes, disturbing, no), they were not printed recently, and he's not behaving in an inappropriate manner. I would say maybe get rid of them and just drop the subject - unless you feel he is developing a problem, I also think any forays into his room should be carefully considered first.<br><br>
My husband, from over my shoulder: "You should just do what my mom always did: leave the porn on my bed with a note saying 'get rid of these'." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Honestly, he sounds fine. I understand your feelings about objectification, but I also think that, as women, we have to remember that this is a delicate time in a boy's life, and having to talk to his mom about his sexual thoughts as they're developing might be a huge source of embarrassment for him.<br><br>
I can't say I really agree with the Playboy idea, frankly. It might seem odd to him to suddenly find that around the house after his mother threw away his porn - it sends very mixed messages, IMO.</div>
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I agree with Mamawindmill. He does sound perfectly ok. I know he is young and that he is looking at pornography. I know I did the same exact thing when I was 12. The difference is is that I found it in my dads filing cabinet. When he found out that I was looking at them (mom too), he just told me that it is perfectly fine (Most awkward moment in my life). Every (well not every) man and woman is going to get curious about EVERYTHING. I mean, I understand how you feel. I know if I saw my dd or ds with it, I would have a heart attack. But I wouldn't blow it out of proportion.

 

[Arduinna]

My parents subs were out in the open also. My dad got playboy and penthouse and my mom got playgirl for awhile. In our case they were in the loving room <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I read my dads mags at that age, 11ish, I'm not and wasn't particularly interested in playgirl. I devoured the call me madam column in penthouse though. He does sound quite normal to me.

 

[Roar]

I'm wondering if part of the confusion with your son is that in the first place you gave him a choice to keep the pictures. I would like to see more parental leadership here. I think he needs to hear that his curiosity is natural, cool, etc. but that sex is about a lot more than these pictures and that it can be a negative thing to have his views of women, his thoughts about sex, etc. be tied up with hard core images.<br><br>
There are pictures that if put in a person's head early (and strongly reinforced - what could be a bigger reinforcement than an orgasm) are hard to get over. There is some really icky, really nasty stuff online that frankly I'd rather not have a kid see. 11 is a kid. Kids may have sexual feelings but that doesn't make them anything other than kids who need guidance and help to make healthy choices.<br><br>
In some ways this conversation is reminding a lot of conversations about spanking in some circles where we hear "but I turned out fine" and lots of rationalizations and justifications that what parents did was correct. I think it is possible to say instead that while many people turn out just fine viewing porn as children, it isn't the best way to learn about sex and one thing we can do as parents is to provide safe places for our kids.

 

[readytobedone]

okay, i'm not a parent yet but just had an observation, so take it FWIW. another difference between "then" and "now" is just the sheer volume and variety of pornographic material available online. i think the internet represents a very different kind of exposure to sex for children than anything i faced growing up!<br><br>
playboy, penthouse, i saw all of that--but there were only a few magazines lying around the house. it's not like i could've literally spent all day online looking at thousands of different naked people, LOL. i dunno...for some reason, internet porn seems more dangerous to me, just because the constant novelty of it makes it harder to get bored with. and so i think kids (and adults <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> ) run the risk of getting addicted to it more easily than in the past.<br><br>
so while some of these sexually open, encouraging parenting tactics might have worked well when there were some porn subscriptions in the house--it's a different phenomenon now and harder to manage, i think.

 

[MidgeMommy]

I'm afraid I disagree with most of Roar's post. I know that when I was 11, I was reading a trashy romance novel a night; whichever one my mom had finished last. And when I got bored of that, I moved on to crazier stuff, that I found online. But I did have to hide it from my parents, and I think that hiding it made me more likely to look for the more 'hardcore' stuff, because it seemed more taboo. What I really would have appreciated was if my mom would let me talk to her about the romance stories. I was trying to learn about sex, and those romantic versions were the best way to do it.<br><br>
Romance novels, of course, aren't hardcore porn. But the point is, I think you did right by making it HIS choice to throw out the hardcore porn in the first place, but I think he felt obligated to keep the rest of his 'stash' because he wasn't given a healthy sexual alternative. Playboy, while not the ideal for giving him a healthy and normal standard for women's body, is much closer too age appropriate than what your describing as being in his possesion. There are plenty of books and stories that have sex in them, and things like Sports Illustrated and even Victoria Secret catalogues, that boys can 'fantasize' about.<br><br>
Maybe, he and Dad need to have a talk about 'acceptable' reading material, and the difference between Playboy and his stash need to be defined. That way, he understands that it isn't the sex that bothers you, its the content, and that there are healthy and satisfying alternatives to bordeline-illegal pornography.<br><br>
Good luck, and I'm glad you recognize sex as normal and your son as a good person, a lot of parents(like mine!) aren't mature enough to deal with the two together. Which makes me wonder about the health and stability of their sex lives....

 

[GoodWillHunter]

First of all, this is a tough thing for me as a parent, as I'm venturing into uncharted waters. As for the choice, well, I admit that probably wasn't the best idea in the world, but I was totally caught unawares and I wasn't sure what to do. I didn't want him to think his feelings are "bad" or "ugly" or "nasty".<br><br>
I am more inclined to leave the door open, as it were, for conversations with my son and give him unconditional love and a safe place to talk. Our home is a safe place, as we have net filters on everything and no internet access in rooms where you can "be alone."<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">In some ways this conversation is reminding a lot of conversations about spanking in some circles where we hear "but I turned out fine" and lots of rationalizations and justifications that what parents did was correct. I think it is possible to say instead that while many people turn out just fine viewing porn as children, it isn't the best way to learn about sex and one thing we can do as parents is to provide safe places for our kids.</td>
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And, frankly, this particular quote hurts me as that is totally not where I"m going with this. I'm doing the absolute best I can with very limited tools. In my home growing up, sex was NOT a topic of discussion, ever. And I mean EVER. It was "gross" and "dirty" and "ugly" and "nasty." To this day, my mother feels uncomfortable if my three year old is naked. She says "I don't like naked people." It's a wonder I was ever conceived in the first place.<br><br>
My son is safe here. His dad and I are not together and, AFAIK, their home is a safe zone as well. My parents now have NetNanny (confirmed yesterday), and they are a safe zone as well. And by trying not to make a big deal out of it, to me, makes it easier for my son to deal with it. If I turned it into a drama, then it's going to be even more attractive to him. I spoke with him again, saying that I don't like him having those pictures as they are a lot to handle at once and I don't feel he's ready for them. Period.<br><br>
As for "going through his stuff" well... I was cleaning out his room in preparation for new furniture. I had asked him to do it several times and he hadn't. So, I did it. And I feel that needs no justification. I don't just randomly go in there and dig through his stuff. I'm better than that, thank you very much. I had a parent who went through my stuff... and that sucks.

 

[kyndmamaof4]

I agree with Yoshua, get him a subscription to Maxim or SI...PLENTY of flesh for an 11, 12 or even 14 yo boy to see, IMO.<br><br>
My oldest boy is just turning 8 next month, but I know that it won't be long before we are right where you are.<br><br>
I am very open with my kids, we are not modest, our kids feel completely fine walking around nude, as well as do we(DH and I)(usually just from our room to the bathroom, or from the bathroom to the laundry room) now that we have a baby girl, I don't know how daddy feels about that, but it wouldn't bother me till she was bigger.<br><br>
I was raised very prudish, and sex and sexuality were wrong and inappropriate.<br><br>
That is the last thing I want to do to my kids. I want them to trust their instincts, and listen to their bodies, but only as it is age appropirate.<br><br>
Hardcore porn is not appropirate for anyone under 18, and personally some of the stuff I've seen,even just straight one man one woman sex, can get a little far out there for kids and young adults who really IMO should be starting out slow, fetish porn or just the pure objectifying of women is not appropirate for anyone under 21.<br><br>
I feel like if ya start out with the more extreme versions of sex, it only perpetuates "hang ups" later in life. "men's mags." are leaving a little more to mystery...Y/K?

 

[Legato_bluesummers]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Roar</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8000912"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm wondering if part of the confusion with your son is that in the first place you gave him a choice to keep the pictures. I would like to see more parental leadership here. I think he needs to hear that his curiosity is natural, cool, etc. but that sex is about a lot more than these pictures and that it can be a negative thing to have his views of women, his thoughts about sex, etc. be tied up with hard core images.<br><br>
There are pictures that if put in a person's head early (and strongly reinforced - what could be a bigger reinforcement than an orgasm) are hard to get over. There is some really icky, really nasty stuff online that frankly I'd rather not have a kid see. 11 is a kid. Kids may have sexual feelings but that doesn't make them anything other than kids who need guidance and help to make healthy choices.<br><br>
In some ways this conversation is reminding a lot of conversations about spanking in some circles where we hear "but I turned out fine" and lots of rationalizations and justifications that what parents did was correct. I think it is possible to say instead that while many people turn out just fine viewing porn as children, it isn't the best way to learn about sex and one thing we can do as parents is to provide safe places for our kids.</div>
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With Roars post. I agree with what you are saying about the negative affect on his mind. I think that is where the parents come in and talk to him about the roles that the people are "playing" in those magazines and how to treat women. Like I said in my case. I was 11 or 12 when my dad and mom found me. And I must say, my vision of sex was skewed then. I only knew what I saw in those books and on online videos. But my dad and mom talked to me about what those books and videos were intended for and how to treat women and such. Just talk with him and don't make him feel like he should feel bad for what he has done. In my opinion, there are only three ways to learn about sex. 1) Talking 2) Having Sex 3) Pics and Videos. Talk to him about the ways he should go indulging himself.

 

[Roar]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>GoodWillHunter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8001337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First of all, this is a tough thing for me as a parent, as I'm venturing into uncharted waters. As for the choice, well, I admit that probably wasn't the best idea in the world, but I was totally caught unawares and I wasn't sure what to do. I didn't want him to think his feelings are "bad" or "ugly" or "nasty".</div>
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Oh, just to be clear I totally get it was an in the moment thing and I don't think you handled it terribly. I think you were totally right to put filters on stuff and I think I might be the only person who has posted who agreed that there is a concern about viewing pornography this might affect his feelings about women and sex.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>GoodWillHunter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8001337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am more inclined to leave the door open, as it were, for conversations with my son and give him unconditional love and a safe place to talk.</div>
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Gosh, I hope so and I don't see anyone who suggested otherwise. I think it is very possible as a parent to have very open discussion, conversations, etc. and still have clear limits. Driving the car drunk is against the rules. It is dangerous. We can and should talk about why that rule exists and how we feel about it, but the limit isn't one that is open for negotiation. To me the limit is a very small part of how this is handled and the much bigger one involves a lot of talking.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>GoodWillHunter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8001337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And, frankly, this particular quote hurts me as that is totally not where I"m going with this. I'm doing the absolute best I can with very limited tools. In my home growing up, sex was NOT a topic of discussion, ever. And I mean EVER. It was "gross" and "dirty" and "ugly" and "nasty." To this day, my mother feels uncomfortable if my three year old is naked. She says "I don't like naked people." It's a wonder I was ever conceived in the first place.</div>
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LOL on the conception. Sorry your family didn't handle this better.<br><br>
That quote was directed at the responses in this thread. Unfortunately for many people the ONLY place they learned about sex was through porn. What I'd like to suggest is that there are healthy approaches to be honest about sexuality in a family that don't include having 11 year old children look at porn. There are other ways to learn about sex and I hate to see posters on this thread saying the answer is to childhood curiosity about sex is to provide porn. What I got from your original post was that you recognized that porn could be problematic for your son and I'm trying to offer some support that you are on the right track here.<br><br>
Another thing that might be worth thinking about is what kind of access he's had to sexuality information and education. The UU church has a very good sex ed curriculum and that may be worth considering. At this point what ever you do I'd like to see ongoing discussions with your son about these issues.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>GoodWillHunter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8001337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I spoke with him again, saying that I don't like him having those pictures as they are a lot to handle at once and I don't feel he's ready for them. Period.</div>
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I'm glad you did that. My suggestion is really just that saying it isn't allowed may be EASIER for him than saying he can make a choice and that you will just disapprove of the choice. I believe there are times when kids like to have the limit because it allows them some freedom from themselves and having to have all the responsibility. I think by installing the computer filters, etc. that is exactly what you are doing for him.

 

[MamaWindmill]

Is it possible he didn't even remember the pictures were there? I think everyone has to remember that he printed these out a year ago. It's not like he's breaking into people's computers to get at porn. I think GoodWillHunter is taking the right approach here - and I think her kid is just fine, honestly.

 

[GoodWillHunter]

I did tell him that I didn't like how the pornography portrayed women and that it made women seem as objects rather than people. Although, I'm not sure if he got the idea, lol. But, at any rate, he knows that hardcore is not acceptable. It is entirely possible, MamaWindmill. I think he had it stashed in several places (even at my parents' house) He and his cousin (who is 13) downloaded it together, IIRC. My sister made her son apologize to my parents for doing this. I totally disagree with that... It's punitive and degrading.<br><br>
Thanks, btw. I'm just a bit sensitive today... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">