[AlmostAPpropriate]

Hi, I have two kids and would really like to have more. I just know we cant afford to have any more according to our goals for them - for me to stay home, arts/enrichment classes, homeschool, college, etc. My DH is self emp and we are just squeaking by as it is. He and I dont have health ins due to the cost and our weight. We pay for the kids to have a very high deductible coverage. I dont have a high earning profession so, if DH should die, I couldnt support more than 2 kids very well at all. There is government aid but I just cant see "planning" to go on WIC, medicaid, etc by having kids I know I cant afford. And yet, I want more kids. I guess this is just where you grow up and have to accept your limitations.

What do you think?

 

[jeteaa]

I know this issue can be an emotional one for parents. We just had our 2nd child 11 months ago. And 2 is it for us. I love being pregnant and having a babe to care for. And so far I love all the moments as they grow. I would LOVE to have a house full of kids.... but no matter how much $$$ parents have, I simply think it is irresponsible for one couple to have more than two children. We could raise our kids to be as green, tree hugging, PEACE to all etc, as possible, but we as parents really can't controll how our kids will turn out as adults. So given our current state of over population and how consuming us americans are. I say feel good about reproducing one person for each of you and call it good.

 

[lilyka]

Our third one hasn't cost us much. She gets hand me down not just from her sisters but also all her sisters friends. she really scores. Actually every little girl we know from 4 on down really scores because we have more than we could ever wear. the older ones we shop carefully, a lot of second hand off season but it is all the top brands that all the girls want

: feeding one more doesn't cut into your budget much. We all ready had a seat for her in the car.

that said we don't do classes or lessons or anything really. It would be fun but we can't afford for all three. heck we can't afford for one to do those things really. I also hate having to drag everyone around to lessons and planning our lives around games and practice. I also think of all the gas that gets wasted doing that kind of thing. even if we could afford it I don't think I could justify the waste of time and resources. however I think if they had to make the choice between ballet and tae kwon do or Ava, i would think they would choose Ava hands down. she is more entertainment than money could ever buy. we do stuff through parks and rec, with our homeschool group etc. i feel no obligation to pay for college, and we live in a small 3 bedroom house in a rough neighborhood but we like it. We can be as tacky as we wanna be and don't have to worry about being the tackiest people on the block

We drive a piece of crap car but only when we aren't biking walking or taking the bus. and it is paid off. And all my friends are very impressed at my skills with jumper cables.

We homeschool so they will be able to work more to save money for college (and I really think kids value it more when they pay for it themselves), We do have small savings accounts for them that are growing slowly but steadily. we will teach them about investing at a young age so it will increase faster. In the end though it is there money and they can use it how they want be it college or a car or travel or just making ends meet. we are teaching them to value public transportation and leg powered transportation so owning their own car won't be high on their priority list, we do have some money for extras but they know that life involves choices and we can't have it all, do it all and be it all. and sometimes it falls on them to choose what is important to them.

We also are just blessed to hang out with people who are willing to help us. Grandma gave us her old piano and does piano lessons for us. I know we are blessed to have a skilled musician in our family. And one who is so generous with her time and talent. and old piano (which is still really nice - I think she just wanted an excuse to get a new one

). but we also know about 2 other people that we could have traded or bartered with for free quality piano lessons. We are blessed to have an excellent inexpensive homeschool co-op. 5 hours a week, 25 weeks a year, all for the low cost of $200 for all three girls. I am blessed to have children who would rather have play dates than play soccer or hockey. I am blessed to have friends who know where all the cheap and free entertainment for kids are.

We do not have health insurance but we have a great free clinic and a Dr. office who will bill us. we own our own business and barter occasionally including some medical stuff. but really insurance isn't all its cracked up to be. we crunched the numbers on Ava's birth and even with an extended hospital stay and a horrible infection it still only saved us about $50 when you factored in deductible, co-pay, premiums and such. it really is just cheaper for us to pay as we go. I know it is a risk if something huge happens but if all else fails since we are self employed we can always bottom out our income for a few months and get Medicaid. we are just barely over the line for the girls as it is.

i have a little job to help pay for the extras. I work overnights. One nice perk it has is that part time employees qualify for limited benefits including a medical savings account. That would be nice to have. but really it is amazing how far a little part time job can go towards paying the bills on extras. One shift a week pays for all our homeschool expenses. A second shift a week will pay for braces. 1.5 shifts a week pay for all our groceries - organic mostly. if i wanted all the girls in a lesson of their choice 1 shift a week would pay tuition and equipment. So long as you don't have to pay daycare it is amazing how much you can have for little extras with just 10-20 hours a week.

 

[boigrrrlwonder]

I have one child, who I can't really afford. I live with my parents. I receive public aid. It isn't easy. I didn't plan on having my kid, but continuing the pregnancy and then choosing to parent was the best decision I made. But it's a hard decision. I would love to be able to be a stay-at-home parent, but I can't. I would love to live in my own home, but I can't. I haven't even thought about how I might one day pay for my kid's college - I'm busy getting through college myself. If staying at home and paying for all of this stuff is necessary for you to want to parent another child, then you shouldn't have another, but if you *really* want another child, ask yourself if you could be flexible about some of these things (like having your kids pay for college via student loans, temping periodically to make ends meet, not signing your kids up for enrichment activities, etc...)

BTW, you might want to check your area's restrictions on public aid. WIC here is only for single mothers.

 

[Kidzaplenty]

We struggle financially right now. But we currently support six children with the same finances we could support 1 or 2. When we are financially where we want to be (not excessive, but about where most would feel comfortable supporting 1 or 2 children on) we will easily be able to support a dozen (if we have that many).

I have always felt that more children does not necessarily mean more expenses, it just means being more frugal.

 

[Alkenny]

I don't work outside the home and my DH doesn't make much money at all comparable to most people...we have all of the above (except for college funds!) for our 3 kids.I agree with Kidzaplenty...it's not about making more money, it's about being more frugal.

Circumstances can change at any moment for ANY of us, so the logic behind 'affording' kids is a little skewed IMO. Everytime you have a child, your budget takes a beating...if we all waited until we could afford them, I don't think ANY of us would have kids.

 

[maliceinwonderland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkenny ...if we all waited until we could afford them, I don't think ANY of us would have kids.

This is what my mom told me when I was deciding whether or not to have another one (who turned out to be ds!). She said "If you wait until the perfect time to have another one, you'll be waiting forever." And the more I thought about it, the more I realized how right she was. When I had dd, I was in highschool, and working parttime. Definitely not the best situation, but I made it through and wouldn't go back and change a thing. We were very short on money, but we had everything we needed, and found some creative and cheap ways to fill in the other stuff.

Now if I can just convince SO that having a third wouldn't be a problem

 

[Jenlaana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeteaa I simply think it is irresponsible for one couple to have more than two children.

Wow thats harsh. Why not say its irresponsible to have kids at all? Why 2 specifically? Why not just 1? Just because 2 works for you doesnt make it the magic number after which we are a bane to the world.... Kinda judgemental~

As to the OP's topic... I have 2 children and a third on the way. Our finances have not been a steady decline based on how many children we have. I had my first son with my ex-husband, and when he chose to up and leave us, we were pretty hard up. I worked for $7.50 an hour, and luckily my mortgage was only $150 a month or I wouldn't have made it. Then my DH and I met, and we moved in together and got married. I stopped working and was caring for my son during the day and going to school at night. We were doing fantastic, financially. We moved so my DH could get a better job, and were doing even better. We had my DD and were doing even better financially. Then we bought a house, and now we are in rough shape again. But we're having another baby, just as planned. We wont be bad off enough to go on welfare or anything. We just have to live frugally. (my ex does not ever pay his child support so we don't have that either - I've gotten about a hear of payments total for the 10 yrs he has been gone).

I cannot yet pay for college for my kids, but I know a lot about financial aid, and am not concerned. Any child that wants to go to college WILL be able to go, if they know where to look for funding. Thankfully my DS is far enough ahead of my daughter that if we did have to pay for it, we wouldn't have to do it all at once. Unlike a PP, I do feel that its my responsibility to pay for college. But that doesnt mean I have to have $100k put aside by the time each kid gets there.

Once my kids are all in school (I homeschool my son but plan on putting my daughters into public school) I will go back to work (or my wahm business will take off enough that I don't have to) and I'll be able to help our income that way. As a PP said, if you wait till you can afford them, it may never happen. Life changes. My income has gone from $18,000 a year to $50,000 a year to $38,000 a year to $42,000 a year. Next year it may be $60,000 a year if things go as planned. A few years later it could be $85,000 a year if I go back to work. And it may not. Its never set in stone for us. We take risks (like moving away from family for a job my DH was offered) sometimes they work out and sometimes they dont. In the end, we don't need a lot to be happy. We're happier now than any of us have ever been in our lives (including my DS, who now has a sister and a stable home and pets for the first time ever).

My DS doesnt do a lot of structured activities, but its not because we cant afford them. Its because his condition makes it difficult for him to function in a structured setting (hence why we are homeschooling him and probably not the other 2) Either way, I think there is a lot to be had in life that doesnt cost money, and I am happy that I can share with my kids that not everything that is wonderful is commercialized and expensive. You'd be suprised what your kids will enjoy if they are not innundated with classes and things.

 

[Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkenny Circumstances can change at any moment for ANY of us, so the logic behind 'affording' kids is a little skewed IMO. Everytime you have a child, your budget takes a beating...if we all waited until we could afford them, I don't think ANY of us would have kids.

I agree with the second part, but not about the logic being off. It makes sense to not plan for something that you cannot now afford and don't foresee being able to afford.

Of course, what exactly does "afford" mean? For some people, feeding and clothing their kids means they can afford them. My definition of afford is a little different. I feel like I owe it to my child to be sure he has opportunities to enrich his life through classes he would want to take (as a means to fulfilling his own future) and to start off as debt-free as possible. For me, that means that I don't have any more children right now. It also means that I'm available to him as much as possible (while still working full-time, which I do). I'd have to work more to provide another child with the life I think s/he deserves and not detract from my child's current life.

 

[mumm]

We planned for 3 which we can afford and got a bonus child this round! We will deal with 4 just fine, it is a matter of changing priorities. We do not do many organized programs for several reasons. (1- my kids are shy and would rather play baseball with me and a few friends than do a class or league and 2- they are expensive!) A vacation involves camping.

I think it is just a matter of living within your means. There is a similiar discussion going on over in frugal living about living debt free.

My parents (and my partners' parents) had more children than they could afford. The more motivated children went to college and made it work out. The others did not, which is probably just as well. I think they wouldn't have taken it seriously if the money for school was just handed to them. I knew we were 'poor' growing up (We got wic, food stamps, christmas presents labeled 'girl, 11 years' etc.) and also that our family was much larger than any I knew. I don't think I realized the two were related!

jeteaa- I don't think we are being irresponsible by having 4 children. Our ecological footprint is much smaller than the family of one mom and one child living near us. And I do have some say in how my children will behave as adults-I'm raising them.

Kids learn how the world works from their parents, so they are learning that what we do daily makes a difference in the overall scheme of the world. (geez- we've talked about how needing a larger car changes how we drive.) They don't know that most families create a bag or more of trash every week, while we only need to bring trash to the dump every 3 weeks or so. They'll just continue those habits as they grow older.

 

[Peony]

I've been thinking about this issue as well. I had always planned on having 3-4 DC, then DD2 was born. She has cost us a fortune. She is almost 8 months old and we have spent over 15K on her medical bills alone, if I sat down and added everything up, it probably would be hitting 20K. We have insurance, at $420.00 a month, that is everything insurance will not cover.

:

I grew up not getting any extras", no classes, dance, etc... I won't put my DD's in everything class out there, but one here or there I will do. We will be homeschooling, I do believe that costs more then sending them off to public school.

I had more thoughts but the DD's are awake now.

 

[primjillie]

I have three children and didn't work when they were young. I would have dearly loved more babies, but we really couldn't afford it. I strongly believe in giving them activities ~ sports, girl scouts, karate, music lessons, etc. ~ within reason, of course. I want my children to be able to go on field trips, attend birthdays parties and not be embarassed by not being able to afford it. We struggled when they were young ~ I babysit off and on for extra money and my husband did side jobs when he could get them. Luckily my husband got a job with the State, so we had health insurance. If I couldn"t afford the basics ~ food, decent clothes and shoes, a home (I hate apartments), working utilities, insurance, plus the reasonable extras ~ sports, etc. as I mentioned above, I wouldn't have any more.

 

[momto l&a]

I read about a guy who had a large number of kids. He himself was totally uneducated, he farmed, was poor and had no pay of paying for his kids education.

He gave his kids each a rabbit and told them this was the collage $$, invest wisely.

The kids did, they turned those rabbits into chickens and those chickens turned to pigs and so on.

Each of his children went on to collage paid for by their rabbit.

Some of this children became drs others lawyers. What an incredible education that man gave his kids.

We ourselves have 4 kids, have no clue if we will have more. We believe children are a gift from God, if he gives them to us then He will provide.

I myself dug gold ore to pay for my 2 years of highschool at a boarding school of my choice. Did you ever see a 90 pound gal using a 100 lb jackhammer?

 

[arlecchina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by momto l&a I myself dug gold ore to pay for my 2 years of highschool at a boarding school of my choice. Did you ever see a 90 pound gal using a 100 lb jackhammer?

you are amazing! I think you made my day, prolly my whole week!

 

[phathui5]

Well, you already have two. Some of the goals you mentioned (staying home with the kids, homeschooling) won't be harder with two kids than it would be with three, four or more.

We homeschool and are about to have our fourth. Many of the books that my ds1 is using now, my other kids will be able to use later. All we'll have to get are the workbooks that go with some of them. Grandparents and tax returns have covered any classes he's wanted to take so far.

We aren't planning on fully covering college, though the kids are welcome to live here while they go to college. And if one of them had their heart set on a career path that required a specific degree, I would be happy to get a job to help them pay for it.

We have recently had to go on WIC, but that wasn't the plan. When dh's work switched to company cars and took away his car allowance, we were stuck with a car payment we couldn't afford (and we can't get out of the loan because the amount left is more than what we can sell the stupid car for).

In response to post 17

Quote:

and our daughter won't have to support us when we are old.

, I'd like to add that our four (unless we have more) kids won't have to support us when we're old. While we're scraping in areas now, retirement saving is something that we're taking seriously, along with paying off our house/debt. Plus, at 23 and 27, we have plenty of time to save up for when we retire.

 

[Alkenny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfly I agree with the second part, but not about the logic being off. It makes sense to not plan for something that you cannot now afford and don't foresee being able to afford. Of course, what exactly does "afford" mean?

I didn't say the anyone's logic was 'off', but that it can be skewed by exactly what you said...we all see affordability and opportunity in different ways. We all have things available to us in different ways too. Just depends.

 

[Diane B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarissaHouTX Hi, I have two kids and would really like to have more. I just know we cant afford to have any more according to our goals for them - for me to stay home, arts/enrichment classes, homeschool, college, etc. My DH is self emp and we are just squeaking by as it is. He and I dont have health ins due to the cost and our weight. We pay for the kids to have a very high deductible coverage. I dont have a high earning profession so, if DH should die, I couldnt support more than 2 kids very well at all. There is government aid but I just cant see "planning" to go on WIC, medicaid, etc by having kids I know I cant afford. And yet, I want more kids. I guess this is just where you grow up and have to accept your limitations. What do you think?

I think it's just fine to choose to limit your family size based on your financial circumstances! That was a big factor for us (along with being older, and the costs of a second adoption). Having one child means that neither of us has to work full-time so we have more time with her, and we still have some funds available for savings, health care, music lessons and other "extras". We don't live extravagantly by any means, but our cars work, our home will be paid for in a few more years, and our daughter won't have to support us when we are old.

By the way, we are not consumerist at all - we don't shop recreationally, our daughter has modest amounts of toys, she wears used (or highly on-sale) clothing, we mostly cook at home, and we spend our free time on mostly free activities. And still, given where we live, our ages, incomes and how much we choose to work, etc. one child is the right number financially for us. I think it's different for different families, but yes, I think finances should be a consideration in planning your family.

 

[2bluefish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilyka We homeschool so they will be able to work more to save money for college (and I really think kids value it more when they pay for it themselves), We do have small savings accounts for them that are growing slowly but steadily. we will teach them about investing at a young age so it will increase faster.

I love this idea, thanks for sharing!

I think we will be just fine with 3. We might even go for 4. We aren't very concerned with our kids having all the "stuff" that other people have. We are in a similar boat with insurance. DH is considering going back into the cooperate world (he now works for a small consulting firm with the idea of eventually becoming a partner), in order to get the benefits. The more we talk to friends who are self employeed the more we wonder if he could do it and be the kind of dad he wants to be. There are pros and cons to each way of life. We've had a taste of both, so now we have to decide.

I also feel that a large extended family is a blessing and a priviledge that cannot be so easily dismissed. In my experience, friends and community are not adequate replacements for family.

 

[lovingmommyhood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeteaa I simply think it is irresponsible for one couple to have more than two children.

Wow, how handy for you that you have 2 and you think that is the golden number.

 

[FireWithin]

We plan on having 3 kids. We already have two. I can think of two financially drastic changes for us in the future. We probably would need to upgrade to a car larger than our beloved '97 corolla, and buying a 2 bedroom condo or 2 bedroom house wouldn't make sense. We would really need to look for a 3 bedroom. In our area, that greatly increases the cost.