[mommy_e]

I wasn't sure what to title this as we have so many issues right now.

:

At what point can I expect any cooperation from my DC?

He is 3.75 and just has no interest at all in anything that might make life the slightest bit easier. I have two younger ones, including a newborn, and it is getting really old to have to prod him along everywhere. There are times I just cannot wait 30+ min for him to decide he is ready to come in from the car, for example. Baby is screaming and needs attended. I can't leave the door open for him to come in when he wants because the middle one is not old enough to stay in the house with the door open.

Every single thing is like that. No amount of explanation - "I can't leave the door open and the baby is crying" - direct request - "please come in now" - asking for cooperation - "It would really help me if you could come in now" - or even semi-bribes - "Let's go in so we can read your library books/eat lunch/ etc" - have any effect. He either sits in his seat (unbuckled), climbs around the car or starts to play with stuff in the garage. We usually move on to enforcing the request by giving him the choice to come in or he will be carried in. Repeat this at every stage of every trip, many times with me pushing the stroller a few feet, going back to encourage him to move on, etc. Bedtime is similar - prodding to change into pullup, prodding to get PJs on, etc. and usually ends with crying because we don't have time to read all his stories no matter how early we start. (note - playful parenting does not work here) So, this leads to my next question...

How do I make it clear that behaviors are unacceptable without completely killing his spirt?

It feels like we spend all day just correcting behavior and that is wearing on all of us. I sit down to nurse and he gets in the pantry and dumps food (which, yes, should be locked but sometimes isn't). I try to throw in a load of wash and he strips naked, which is not in itself a problem except that the 2 yo mimics him and is not potty trained. Over and over, we have said that these are not acceptable and that we expect him to stay out of the cupboard (he has his own play kitchen and access to other cupboards) and that we would like for his clothes to stay on. He also encourages the 2 yo to misbehave. I actaully walked into where the computer is and overheard him telling the 2 yo "Push that big button right there. Go on, just push it". He knows this is wrong!

After the umpteenth time of saying "Please don't do X, when you do X, Y happens. You can do Z instead" and then trying to enforce the direction, I get to the point of threats and shaming.

I don't want to be there, but none of the GD tools seem to help. Any attempts at calm explanations, like above, are met with either outright defiance or insane laughter, which makes my blood boil no matter how many times I tell myself he is just 3. Removing him from a situation is a huge game for him and not alway feasible with a fussy babe (yes I have 6 slings, but they don't always work and trying to move 34 lbs of screaming 3 yo with a baby in the sling isn't exactly safe).

I know my anger is getting out of hand and I spend most of my day dreading anything that will require getting him to do something. I just don't feel like honoring his requests after mine are so blatently ignored every time. It just seems like I am getting nowhere with GD and his behavior towards me and others is getting worse.

So, if you have read this far, thank you. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[LilyGrace]

In times like that, I don't like "please" "will you" "let's" "I need you to..". It all focuses on one thing - doing something because *I* ask.

When there is a pressing need, make that known. You aren't telling him something because you want it done, it needs to be done, for the simple reason that he is him, you are you, and this is the situation. "You need" focuses more on that.

"You need to come in now. Do you want me to carry you or do you want to walk?" Very simple and straightforward, but still offers choice and independence. If he chooses to walk, but doesn't move or attempt to go to the door, vocalize that. "Oh, I see that you've chosen to have me carry you. Alright!" There may be tears, but there will also be respect for you since the request is so easy to understand. It will be reinforced the next time a situation is presented - he'll stop and think, "Ok, I have two choices and I need to pick one." Welll...maybe not the next time, but soon.

It is much easier for a child to honor requests when it becomes not about pleasing another person, but being responsible for themselves.

 

[Ornery]

Just wanted to say I am right there with you with my 3 yo dd. Right now seems to be her time to test boundaries. My older son (now 11) went through this at 3 as well. I can remember not going out in public (or so it seemed) for a year when he was three. That is not possible now for my 3 yo dd because of my 11 yo ds and my 16 mo ds, and I am really stuck in a rut myself. She is constantly being "disrespectful" (I don't call it that to her, I just let her know she hurt my feelings) and even ran away from me the other day in the park! I just really try to keep my cool and be respectful of her, but also let her know that some things have to happen and she has a choice as to whether they happen the way she would like, or another way that may not be as fun, i.e, she can walk inside or I can carry her. I also have been giving her lots of ways to show independence (dressing herself, "making" her own food, letting her know by timers, etc, how long we have to do a certain activity). As for a solution, for us, it is just another phase to pass through.

Oops, should say that I'm not as "gentle discipline" as a lot of folks here. Although I try to treat my children with respect and love, there are also things that we HAVE to do, and I believe that having expectations of my children gives them a positive message (obviously, age appropriate expectations). I've found with my children, if I don't clearly express expectations to them, they tend not to have many of their own. Hmmm....that sounded cold, I didn't mean it that way at all. I am much more of a nurterer. Just not good at putting my thoughts down on paper!

 

[violet]

Oh mommy e my heart goes out to you!!!

Have you ever read 'Positive Discipline for the Preschooler'? She talks about how attention getting is a misguided attempt to feel secure and important. That was a wake up call for me because I had always considered DD's attention geting behaviors as part of her personality or age.

Since he's nearly 4, he probably already knows what he is doing is not appropriate and yet he still does it. Is that right? You think he is capable of understanding and remembering the rules? If so, I would consider NOT explaining for a period of time. Have you ever heard of a negative feed-back loop? This is what I would do---

I would say as little as possible and instead focus on the positive next step: ie We stop the car in the driveway, time to get to the house: Me:"DS, do you want to walk to the house yourself or do you need help this time?" there would be no further discussion or explanation from me, i would watch his actions for his real response. "do it myself" as he dances on his head in his seat and I say "looks like you chose to have me help you". If need be, I'd get the others and the groceries in the house in the meantime, but there'd be no more reminding or discussion - no remrimanding either. Then as I'm schlepping him into the house I say "I have a few chores like putting the groceries away. But most of it can wait. How about you and I play trains as soon as I put the cold groceries away" the key phrase there was "as soon as" - that makes it sound immediate and definite.

On the other side, I'd put lots of energy into the fun stuff. Brief 15 min bursts of all my attention spread throughout the day seems to work best for us. But it helps when DD knows and expects the 1-on-1 time is coming. The key is keeping the attention on the positive and offering virtually NO response to the negative.

And you say removing him from a situation is a huge game --So remove yourself. I've created an oasis in the bathroom. Stack of magazines, burp cloth for nursing my baby, etc. I'll say something like " You are choosing to throw the toys while the baby and I are in the room. That is not acceptible. The baby and I will come back when you can show me you are ready to play with us." That's it, I'm up and out and.

Among my monkies, this kind of thing passes quickly after a couple days of no discussion. I'm all for explaining and negotiating and compromising and finding solutions. But both mama and child have to be coming from a place of health for that to really work. It doesn't work when someone is overtired, hungry, sick, or feeling out of sorts. When my DD is stuck in attention getting overdrive, I feel like I have to change my response drastically to snap her back out of her loop and then we go back to "normal" discussions. I still consider the non-attentive response to be GD, it's just not our usual. I only find myself doing it when we hit a rough patch.

I wish you the best.. . He's probably growing a lot and it can't be easy on him to be learning to be an older sibling while he's still so young himself. It's a challenge fo you all. Have you had break lately? I hope you get lots of good advice and encouragement.

 

[mommy_e]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilyGrace In times like that, I don't like "please" "will you" "let's" "I need you to..". It all focuses on one thing - doing something because *I* ask. When there is a pressing need, make that known. You aren't telling him something because you want it done, it needs to be done, for the simple reason that he is him, you are you, and this is the situation. "You need" focuses more on that. ... It is much easier for a child to honor requests when it becomes not about pleasing another person, but being responsible for themselves.

Thank you. This does make more sense. I think I am too caught up in wanting him to understand how his actions affect others sometimes, but it probably does sound to him like I am just asking because I want something from him.

 

[mommy_e]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckmoore Just wanted to say I am right there with you with my 3 yo dd. Right now seems to be her time to test boundaries. My older son (now 11) went through this at 3 as well. I can remember not going out in public (or so it seemed) for a year when he was three. ... Oops, should say that I'm not as "gentle discipline" as a lot of folks here. Although I try to treat my children with respect and love, there are also things that we HAVE to do, and I believe that having expectations of my children gives them a positive message (obviously, age appropriate expectations). I've found with my children, if I don't clearly express expectations to them, they tend not to have many of their own. Hmmm....that sounded cold, I didn't mean it that way at all. I am much more of a nurterer. Just not good at putting my thoughts down on paper!

Thank you so much. Knowing that it will pass (eventually) helps. He is my oldest, so each stage is brand new to us and we get caught in that cycle of "If he won't listen now, what will we do when he is X years old?" It was very easy when he was younger to brush it off as age appropriate, but as he gets older and more verbal it is hard to remember that he is still so little and what to expect.

While we are trying hard to use GD, we are certainly on the more strict end of it. CL, for example, is just something I cannot wrap my head around and see how it would work with three LOs. I just want to get away from the shaming and continuous threats. I can see his little heart breaks with these things and I know that the threats cannot be a long term solution as they will just set up a power struggle. Since it's all I grew up with, it is what I fall back on when I am stressed.

 

[mommy_e]

Quote:

Originally Posted by violet Oh mommy e my heart goes out to you!!! Have you ever read 'Positive Discipline for the Preschooler'? She talks about how attention getting is a misguided attempt to feel secure and important. That was a wake up call for me because I had always considered DD's attention geting behaviors as part of her personality or age.

I actually got this out last week, but in my sleep deprived state it just wasn't registering. I'm going to try and get a good read of it in this weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by violet Since he's nearly 4, he probably already knows what he is doing is not appropriate and yet he still does it. Is that right? You think he is capable of understanding and remembering the rules? If so, I would consider NOT explaining for a period of time. Have you ever heard of a negative feed-back loop? This is what I would do--- I would say as little as possible and instead focus on the positive next step: ie We stop the car in the driveway, time to get to the house: ...

I will try this. I do think he is capable of understanding the rules and what is appropriate. It is very hard for me to keep neutral lately and that is what is hard. Between the sleep deprivation and PP hormones I am on the edge of grumpy most times, so maybe dropping the repeated explanations/requests may keep me from getting there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by violet On the other side, I'd put lots of energy into the fun stuff. Brief 15 min bursts of all my attention spread throughout the day seems to work best for us. But it helps when DD knows and expects the 1-on-1 time is coming. The key is keeping the attention on the positive and offering virtually NO response to the negative. ... I wish you the best.. . He's probably growing a lot and it can't be easy on him to be learning to be an older sibling while he's still so young himself. It's a challenge fo you all. Have you had break lately? I hope you get lots of good advice and encouragement.

Thank you for all the suggestions. I know that he is going through some big changes right now. I love him with all my heart, but I am getting to the point where I just don't like being around him so something needs to change.

:

Breaks have been few lately. The PP help is over and DH is back to work and trying to catch up from all the time off. Also, since he is no longer napping, I cannot sleep during the day like I did with the first two. I just need some Chicken Soup for the GD Soul or something to get me through the next couple of months.