[Past_VNE]

DS just played with one of our bantam chicks in his kiddie pool until it drowned.

HOW do I talk to him about this???

I explained how drowning feels, how she was scared, how her lungs filled up with water and she couldn't breathe. I said, "Doesn't that make you feel sad?" He says, "No, I don't feel sad."

It was honestly a mistake, he wasn't trying to kill it. But WHAT NOW? Especially since he doesn't seem to understand it was scary and painful for the chicken.

DH is outside, talking about drowning and DS is filling in the hold DH dug to bury the chick. DS would have dug the hole, but the ground is too hard.

ETA: **See my details and updates below.**

 

[mama_mojo]

I don't mean to sound heartless, but let it go. Or, just grieve with him over this terrible accident. Be sad WITH him. He did not do it on purpose, and even if he had, he would not have understood quite what he was doing.

Just last summer (and I am 36) I killed a chick by squashing under the water dish; it wasn't quite dead when I discovered it, so I carried it around inside my shirt, thinking maybe it was just cold. I felt SOOOO bad, and I could not admit to anyone this horrible thing I had done. I cried and cried, and I am, as I said, 36 years old.

Please, no more lectures or discussions of the horrors of drowning. He's too little. He probably feels as bad as his little 4 yo heart can feel. Callousness is a wall building tactic to bad feelings. Be sad with him, but no more lectures.

 

[North_Of_60]

I would leave the kid alone, and instead reflect upon the fact that your child was unsupervised with a baby animal near a body of water and had the opportunity to do this in the first place. He's 4. Where was the supervising parent/guardian in charge, and why did they allow this to happen? Better yet, if he had the opportunity to drown an animal, what about HIS safety?

 

[fek&fuzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by North_Of_60 I would leave the kid alone, and instead reflect upon the fact that your child was unsupervised with a baby animal near a body of water and had the opportunity to do this in the first place. He's 4. Where was the supervising parent/guardian in charge, and why did they allow this to happen? Better yet, if he had the opportunity to drown an animal, what about HIS safety?

Yes, this.

 

[junipermuse]

If it was truly and accident I'd let it go. I think it's important that you watch him more carefully in the future. 4 is too young to be given the responsibility of not hurting the baby chicks without your supervision. Take it as a learning experience for both of you.

 

[The4OfUs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mama_mojo I don't mean to sound heartless, but let it go. Or, just grieve with him over this terrible accident. Be sad WITH him. He did not do it on purpose, and even if he had, he would not have understood quite what he was doing. Just last summer (and I am 36) I killed a chick by squashing under the water dish; it wasn't quite dead when I discovered it, so I carried it around inside my shirt, thinking maybe it was just cold. I felt SOOOO bad, and I could not admit to anyone this horrible thing I had done. I cried and cried, and I am, as I said, 36 years old. Please, no more lectures or discussions of the horrors of drowning. He's too little. He probably feels as bad as his little 4 yo heart can feel. Callousness is a wall building tactic to bad feelings. Be sad with him, but no more lectures.

: I'm sorry that the chick died, but please don't give him any more descriptions of what drowning is like, or try to make him feel badly about this. I don't think that at 4 years old, he needs to "understand" how scary/painful it was for the chick in teh way an adult could understand it - they're jsut not there yet at 4 years old. Developing sympathy/empathy is a process, and repeatedly addressing the chick's circumstance of death is likely not going to be helpful in helping him learn either. Chalk it up as a lesson that he is not able to handle playing with the chicks unsupervised. He's processing it in a way that's totally normal for a 4yo, and I wouldn't worry about him becoming an animal torturer/serial killer, or even indifferent to life.

 

[RiverSky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by North_Of_60 I would leave the kid alone, and instead reflect upon the fact that your child was unsupervised with a baby animal near a body of water and had the opportunity to do this in the first place. He's 4. Where was the supervising parent/guardian in charge, and why did they allow this to happen? Better yet, if he had the opportunity to drown an animal, what about HIS safety?

Yeah, I'm leaning this way, too.

It was a tragic accident, and thank goodness it was not your son.

 

[Amylcd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by North_Of_60 I would leave the kid alone, and instead reflect upon the fact that your child was unsupervised with a baby animal near a body of water and had the opportunity to do this in the first place. He's 4. Where was the supervising parent/guardian in charge, and why did they allow this to happen? Better yet, if he had the opportunity to drown an animal, what about HIS safety?

This is exactly what I was going to say.

 

[LaLaLaLa]

When my DD, who is four, has done something wrong, she often tries to pretend that it hasn't happened at all or that she doesn't care. I think this is a defense mechanism against disappointment and horror. It sounds like you've been handing out plenty of disappointment and horror, in an attempt to get through. I'd argue that you've already gotten through perhaps too much.

He didn't mean to hurt the chick. In his brain and heart he might be completely devastated by what he has done, and your disappointment is more than he can take. Perhaps he CAN'T show remorse, because his wall of uncaring is all that is keeping him from completely disintegrating. After all, today he's killed a living thing, been made aware that this living thing was terrified and in agony before it died, and has been made aware that his parents must think he's pretty awful, as they keep pushing his face in this terrible thing he's done by mistake.

Please, please, don't pressure him any more to show he's sorry. This is the kind of memory that will stick with him and continue to haunt him as he grows up and deals with more death. Poor kid.

 

[nextcommercial]

Yep.. drop the subject, and make sure he doesn't play with them anymore (in the pool).

He probably does feel bad, but won't say he does.

 

[Daphneduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by North_Of_60 I would leave the kid alone, and instead reflect upon the fact that your child was unsupervised with a baby animal near a body of water and had the opportunity to do this in the first place. He's 4. Where was the supervising parent/guardian in charge, and why did they allow this to happen? Better yet, if he had the opportunity to drown an animal, what about HIS safety?

Ditto.

 

[rainbowmoon]

I don't know. I have gone through this with my own kids. They eventually learn compassion and learn about how their actions can hurt. and sometimes it takes awhile to learn that. My own 2 darlings killed some of my ducks once with absolutely NO remorse whatsoever!

:

But since have gained some compassion toward animals thankfully! I really think it's just a part of life and learning about life and death and cause and effect. Nothing more nothing less. Try not to read into it so much.

 

[Past_VNE]

His kiddie pool is on the back deck. The back door was open. We were on the other side of the door. He wouldn't drown in that, I'm confident, so I don't need lectures on that. I do agree, however, that he is being given a little too much freedom, obviously, since he can't make the right decisions on things like that. We live on a farm. He's not always in sight or directly with us. We have plenty of rules regarding checking in, answering when called, etc. I'm happy with that set up. I just need to know how others handle the death issue.

mama mojo, thanks for the kind words. I'm very sorry you had that happen to you. I understand the pain. It sucks, no doubt. I agree that it probably should just be let go.

It freaks me out that he isn't sad about it. But, I am trying to remind myself that when my MIL died, whom DS adored, he said he wasn't sad about that either. So, I think that's just how he expresses himself at this point.

...making dinner....distracted post. sorry if it's not a complete thought...

ETA: Sorry. Only mama mojo and North of 60 had written when I started to reply (amidst cooking dinner.) So many more replies! Thanks for the important reminder about his general level of understanding. This kid is sooo advanced on so many levels, it's a very hard thing for me to remember. And, about the pool...yeah, I wasn't clear in my first post, so I understand your concern. But it's really in a safe place. And, the chicks were headed to the barn tonight anyway, as they're getting big enough and the temps are finally up today.

 

[mamatoablessing]

Hugs Mama. That must have been rough and I know it seems like your DS may not care, but like a pp said, it is most likely a defense mechanism so that he doesn't have to think about what he's done. (I don't mean this to sound accusatory, as I don't think he quite understands the consequences of his actions.) Yes, he was probably too young to be left unsupervised with the chicks...I'd chalk it up as a lesson for the both of you. Regardless of what your DS has said to you, I'm pretty sure he will remember this incident and hopefully use his new found knowledge not to play with the chicks in the water. And you know better than to leave him alone around water and the chicks from now on.

I had to have my wonderful old kitty put to sleep two months ago. He was the light of DD1's life (she's 4yo too). She lived for this cat. I waited until she got home from preschool to tell her what we had to do (he had cancer) and I was crying very hard. She could've cared less about the cat. All she cared about was me crying and being sad. She wanted me to stop. I think my being so upset was very distressing to her. Even now, when we talk about the cat, she never says she misses him or anything, but only asks me if I'm still sad about him and when will I stop be sad. I think it's scary for children to see emotions in their parents that they haven't quite learned how to express themselves. I feel like I'm rambling, but I hope you get the point.

One last thing... As for the being in the pool without you there, I'm ok with that. You know your son and his limits. I wouldn't hesitate to leave my 4 yo in a real pool, if I was working inside and could check on her every few minutes. In fact, I did that often last week on vacation. She is an amazingly strong swimmer. So I don't fault you on that at all!

 

[North_Of_60]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Past_VNE I do agree, however, that he is being given a little too much freedom, obviously, since he can't make the right decisions on things like that.

I think it's completely ridiculous that he was even given the opportunity to attempt making such decisions. A 4 year old alone with a kiddy pool and a fragile baby animal? Uh, not the kid's fault here. He's 4.

 

[ahimsa_in_action]

It's so easy to feel like one's child should be able to feel remorse over killing another living creature, but he probably hasn't had enough life experience yet to fully understand what it was like for the chick. I've heard that it can take awhile for a child to learn empathy and compassion, especially boys (maybe that's just because of how they're typically raised...). I feel that some of the other comments made were a bit harsh...it didn't sound to me like you were guilt-tripping him, more like trying to help him understand. There's a big difference between the two, in my opinion. I also wouldn't jump to the conclusion that his lack of understanding or compassion towards the animal was a sign of putting up a wall...I see it more as simply innocence...he just doesn't get it yet. Maybe make a point of helping him understand how other people and animals are feeling when the urge strikes you. My son is a little over 2 years old, and for the last year or so I explain to him when the situation arises how someone else is feeling. Like if he's running across our garden, not noticing how he's crushing some of the plants under his feet, I'll say, "Please be careful where you step...that hurts the plants, they have feelings, too..." or something along those lines. I make sure I say it in a compassionate tone so the message is given as clearly as possible. Oftentimes now he'll try to be careful when he's walking in that area, which may or may not be a sign of compassion...but at least it's putting the idea/feeling in his head, which is a step in the right direction, imo

 

[potatocraft]

Ummm....Even if you child is good around water, you need watch him. Children can drown in an inch of water. What if he is running around the kiddy pool trips falls in and bumps his head. Then he is face first unconcious in water.
As for the chick, I'm sorry that happened. And even if he doesn't show it, he will be too. He will remember later, and know better.

 

[chaoticzenmom]

I think you did fine. You explained that we don't hurt animals and why. He may not get it yet, but he will.

As for the kiddie pool on the back porch. He's 4 and it's a kiddie pool. Absolutely no big deal, except for that somehow he got a hold of the chick.

My 3yo made a baby chick um, fly, once. It wasn't pretty

 

[NaturalMindedMomma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by potatocraft Ummm....Even if you child is good around water, you need watch him. Children can drown in an inch of water. What if he is running around the kiddy pool trips falls in and bumps his head. Then he is face first unconcious in water. As for the chick, I'm sorry that happened. And even if he doesn't show it, he will be too. He will remember later, and know better.

She stated she was on the other side of an open door, she would have heard this.

I wanted to add, I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching a child that hurting an animal is NOT ok. Accident or not, I would just address that he cannot do this.

((HUGS)) mama.

 

[NaturalMindedMomma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahimsa_in_action It's so easy to feel like one's child should be able to feel remorse over killing another living creature, but he probably hasn't had enough life experience yet to fully understand what it was like for the chick. I've heard that it can take awhile for a child to learn empathy and compassion, especially boys (maybe that's just because of how they're typically raised...). I feel that some of the other comments made were a bit harsh...it didn't sound to me like you were guilt-tripping him, more like trying to help him understand. There's a big difference between the two, in my opinion. I also wouldn't jump to the conclusion that his lack of understanding or compassion towards the animal was a sign of putting up a wall...I see it more as simply innocence...he just doesn't get it yet. Maybe make a point of helping him understand how other people and animals are feeling when the urge strikes you. My son is a little over 2 years old, and for the last year or so I explain to him when the situation arises how someone else is feeling. Like if he's running across our garden, not noticing how he's crushing some of the plants under his feet, I'll say, "Please be careful where you step...that hurts the plants, they have feelings, too..." or something along those lines. I make sure I say it in a compassionate tone so the message is given as clearly as possible. Oftentimes now he'll try to be careful when he's walking in that area, which may or may not be a sign of compassion...but at least it's putting the idea/feeling in his head, which is a step in the right direction, imo