Mothering Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New York Times
November 8, 2005

LONG PRAIRIE, Minn. - Polio was pronounced dead in the Western Hemisphere years ago, after one of the most successful public health campaigns in history. But now it is stealing through a tiny Amish community here in central Minnesota, spreading from an 8-month-old girl to four children on two neighboring farms.

More at link

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,476 Posts
Oh, oh oh, don't you like this bit???


Quote:
She may have been infected in a hospital by another immune-deficient patient who nursed it for years. A doctor or nurse may have served as a go-between. Or there may have been a chain of carriers in the Amish community.Regardless, the girl is now a wellspring for polio, a modern-day Typhoid Mary who can pass it along to others...
Pardon? Are they making no attempt to find the real index case, but just pinning the blame on this child?
 
  • Like
Reactions: applejuice

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,476 Posts
Quote:
Genetic testing showed that the virus was almost identical to that of the oral polio vaccine given in much of the rest of the world but not in the United States. The slight changes to the virus from that of the vaccine suggested that it had been circulating for at least two years. The girl has never traveled abroad.

A fear is that such a person could unwittingly incubate a polio infection for a decade or more and then accidentally reintroduce it - years after experts have declared it eliminated from the world and vaccinations have stopped.
for all they know its been around for a decade or more! stoopid nanas.

Time they put their brains in gear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: applejuice

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,476 Posts
REad it. She was shuttled through four hospitals and it was only picked up in the thied one one, so how could they say it came from the amish community? It's far more likely to have been picked up in the second or third of the four hospitals and transferred TO the Amish community. The last three hospitals should be gone through with a toothcomb in relation to WHO treated her, and who she was in contact with. THAT is the way to find the real typhoid Mary. This child is a victim of medical ignorance, and now, incompetence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: applejuice

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
But, MT, isn't this all about distraction and diversion? They have their unvaccinated scapegoat and something to divert the media to and use it to further push the "necessity" for mass vaccination. I'm sure "they" are loving this, as even many peds here are doubting the continued necessity for this vaccine.

I know I'm not the only one that noticed all the contradictions and condescention in this piece.

Quote:
"If that child is a message in a bottle," said Bruce Aylward, coordinator of the global polio eradication initiative at the World Health Organization, "it has just washed up on shore."
Is this to drive home the "it's only a plane ride away" scare tactic?

Quote:
The farms could have come straight out of children's books. There are ducks and chickens, cattle and hogs. Fence posts are columns of stones enclosed by wire mesh. Lacking electricity, the farms are remarkably quiet. At one, the children rarely yelled or even spoke in the presence of a stranger. The air smelled of turned earth, manure and wood smoke.
Is the author trying to actually pretend they went to this community to write this article?

Quote:
Since many Amish use outhouses, however, state officials geared up to go door to door. They unearthed a public health form explaining how to collect stool samples. The form had pictures of a flush toilet and a garbage can with a plastic liner - things foreign to many Amish communities. Officials changed the form.

The Amish commonly take buses and trains, and occasionally even planes. Families from the baby girl's community recently attended a wedding in Ontario, Canada, that health officials said drew more than 1,000 guests. Some have visited Wisconsin in recent weeks.
So, did the new forms have a picture of an outhouse and a paper bag? Because, ya know, they probably have no clue what that porcelain bowl with the silver lever is in that little closet on the airlplanes, buses and trains. They must wait until it stops and go squat outside behind a bush. I hope they had a porta-potty at the wedding or there's going to be a whole lot of people with bladder infections from holding it all night at the reception.

Quote:
So far, no one has been crippled by the disease; only 1 in 200 cases of polio results in paralysis.

Polio experts have long feared that an immune-deficient person could cause an outbreak of paralytic polio. That is a particular hazard in poorer countries.

In much of the developing world, children are given an oral vaccine made of a live, nonparalytic polio virus.

A fear is that such a person could unwittingly incubate a polio infection for a decade or more and then accidentally reintroduce it - years after experts have declared it eliminated from the world and vaccinations have stopped.

That prospect has long seemed remote, because such children are so rare,
Why would they even mention the stats for the natural disease, since this situation has nothing to do with wild polio? But then they go on to say how the oral vaccines is a "nonparalytic" virus, yet it CAN cause paralytic polio if given the right circumstances (like an immune-deficient child). But, I guess that's the child's fault, not the vaccines fault. And why is this prospect so remote, since they even make mention of how it's not "rare" to find a sick child among the poor in these 3rd world countries where there are still cases of polio?

Quote:
But if the virus spreads too far among previously unvaccinated people, its genes will change and the virus will regain its ability to cripple and kill. Such a virus caused an outbreak of paralytic polio in Haiti and the Dominican Republic in 2000 and 2001, crippling 21. (The outbreaks in Africa and Asia began after many Nigerians refused vaccinations in 2003, suspecting they were a Western plot to sterilize Muslim girls.)
Did "they" just admit that these cases of polio were from the vaccine, not wild polio making a "comeback" because people refused vaccination? Wow! Good reason to keep on keepin' on...so you don't get paralysed from someone spreading the vaccine virus! They just admitted this "campaign" will NEVER end.

Quote:
"It's a model of what might happen if we stop vaccinating too soon," he said.

"Or we may need to revisit the strategy and time frame for stopping the use of the oral polio vaccine,"
To the first sentence I say, YES! Let's keep on vaccinating to stay safe from your vaccination! Morons.

To the second......I amazed that any intelligent statement came out of the mouth of an "official" among this entire fiasco.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
959 Posts
I actually came here to post this same article. It was very one-sided, of course, not mentioning vaccine injuries and actually declaring autism not related to vaccine use. But I have to admit, it scared the CRAP out of me. And it actually has made me consider revisiting the vaccine issue.

I was hoping this thread would help but it isn't. Someone mentioned that this Amish family has been discussed before on mothering? (how, this is from today's NYT) Can you give me a hint where? I thought this was a new story.

I'm really wondering if I should consider the vaccine now. We've done none and dd is 4.5. I was previously quite confident about it but that's with the understanding that Polio was dead in most of the world. Having 5 cases of the virus in the US is disconcerting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
I think this thread is helpful - it contains all the essentials to dispel the mainstream media scare tactics:

These kids do not have polio (polio is a disease defined by paralysis).

These kids are infected with the oral polio vaccine virus.

OPV is contagious and has always been contagious. Back when OPV was on the vaccination schedule everybody was infected with it.

The IPV currently used in the U.S. does not prevent circulation of poliovirus so it is not just unvaccinated people that spread the oral polio vaccine virus - it is everybody. And if you want to place blame, then you point the finger at the vaccinated people who are the point sources for these circulating vaccine strains.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,120 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by boston
I was hoping this thread would help but it isn't. Someone mentioned that this Amish family has been discussed before on mothering? (how, this is from today's NYT) Can you give me a hint where? I thought this was a new story.
The NYT may have just picked up on it, but it's been going on for a while. MST had the story a couple of months ago. And this thread IS helping, it's helping call out the myths and give out the REAL information, not the BS the mainstream press spews.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,343 Posts
Quote:
But if the virus spreads too far among previously unvaccinated people, its genes will change and the virus will regain its ability to cripple and kill.
Is that true?
And if it is, is that an admission of guilt that they have been infecting the 3rd world with paralytic polio for the past 50 years?
Can it mutate and regain this virulence in IPV vaccinated people?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,324 Posts
Quote:
I was hoping this thread would help but it isn't. Someone mentioned that this Amish family has been discussed before on mothering? (how, this is from today's NYT) Can you give me a hint where? I thought this was a new story.
http://204.157.9.55/~agape25/artman/...cle_2490.shtml Oct 16 2005

Quote:
I'm really wondering if I should consider the vaccine now. We've done none and dd is 4.5. I was previously quite confident about it but that's with the understanding that Polio was dead in most of the world. Having 5 cases of the virus in the US is disconcerting
not only is the vaccine poliovirus contagious. like a pp said, but THAT fact is touted as a BENEFIT for it's use in the US in the past, and in other countries today.

From the WHO http://www.who.int/vaccines-access/f...hy/xingzhu.pdf pg 41

Quote:
The use of OPV can produce secondary immunization through the spread of a vaccine virus in stools, which indirectly immunizes those with secondary contacts. This is particularly important in developing countries where the sanitation status permits this spread and the
immunization coverage is low.
The same info is found here: http://www.sabin.org/vaccine_science_polio.htm
and here http://www.cdc.gov/nip/faqs/polio-faqs.htm

Quote:
The shedding of the virus in the stool to contacts is beneficial in an area where the disease is endemic or has recently been endemic because it enhances herd immunity.
And IPV doesn't stop the spread of poliovirus http://www.sabin.org/vaccine_science_polio.htm

Quote:
Unlike the oral vaccine, IPV confers only very little immunity in the intestinal tract. When a person immunized with IPV is infected with wild poliovirus, virus can still multiply inside the intestines and be shed in stools - risking continued circulation.
After a few days of researching polio, I'm more confident than ever that ds won't get vaxed for it any further. Lots of info out there. One interesting thing is the risk factors

Quote:
Risk factors for paralytic disease include larger inocula of poliovirus, increasing age, pregnancy, strenuous exercise, tonsillectomy, and intramuscular injections administered while the patient is infected with poliovirus (22--24).
"intramuscular injections" include vaccines lol http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4905a1.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
544 Posts
Quote:
But if the virus spreads too far among previously unvaccinated people, its genes will change and the virus will regain its ability to cripple and kill.
Poliovirus spreads equally well among vaccinated people, too. It spreads among everyone. There is absolutely no room to place an iota of blame on unvaccinated people. Mainstream sources need to be challenged on this ridiculous assertion that unvaccinated people are the cause of poliovirus spread.

The oral poliovirus can and has evolved into pathogenic strains. Every living thing evolves. How about those trivalent live virus flu vaccines? Because the flu virus re-assorts its segemented genome it evolves light years faster than polio virus. Why no concern about that? A decade ago being infected with oral polio vaccine virus meant you were vaccinated, now it means you have polio. Today being infected with live virus flu vaccine is supposed to be wonderful - years from now circulating flu vaccine virus will be a scourge blamed on the unvaccinated population.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,120 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy
http://www.who.int/vaccines-access/f...hy/xingzhu.pdf pg 41
The use of OPV can produce secondary immunization through the spread of a vaccine virus in stools, which indirectly immunizes those with secondary contacts. This is particularly important in developing countries where the sanitation status permits this spread and the
immunization coverage is low.
Which is EXACTLY what is going on right now and what EVERYONE'S freaking out about!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
Oh, but Insider, the sanitary conditions are so hard to control that their only option is mass vaccination.


Quote:
Which is EXACTLY what is going on right now and what EVERYONE'S freaking out about!
Exactly. I don't get it. In the same article, the author says the ability for oral polio virus to spread vaccinates other people, like it's a good thing. In the next paragraph he's saying how this spread to the unvaccinated can cause the virus to become paralytic and the process is a danger. Wth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,343 Posts
Quote:
Poliovirus spreads equally well among vaccinated people, too. It spreads among everyone. There is absolutely no room to place an iota of blame on unvaccinated people. Mainstream sources need to be challenged on this ridiculous assertion that unvaccinated people are the cause of poliovirus spread.
I bet if you were to call them out on it, though, they'd say "Oh...we just meant unvaccinated with OPV".
I'm not really terribly worried about this, but does anyone know what the real chances are that a particularly virulent, mutant OPV strain could morph it's way across the country?
Mutation is random, right?
Isn't there an equal chance it could mutate in such a way as to become less dangerous?
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top