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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"Mervin Gajewski remembers hearing an infant's<br>
wails while he was having blood tests done in a Watford City<br>
hospital a few years ago.'Somebody better help that baby. He sounds<br>
hurt,' the 78-year-old Alexander man says he told a nurse. 'You would<br>
be, too, if you were being circumcised,' she replied."</td>
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<a href="http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/11706256.htm" target="_blank">http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/11706256.htm</a><br><br>
Posted on Sat, May. 21, 2005<br><b>Influenced by infant's cries, man wants ban on circumcision</b><br>
by James Warden<br>
Associated Press<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><br><br>
It made the Grand Forks North Dakota paper. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Gajewski says the reasons justifying the procedure are speculative, using the assumption that "somewhere down the line, it's going to be good for you."<br><br>
"Surgery isn't done that way," he said.</td>
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(I'm not sure if this was already posted or not. If so, please forgive me.)
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> Good guy!
 

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All these court dismissals are because the people bringing the cases "have no standing", what does that mean?<br><br>
How can someone bringing a case against someone who has circumcised her son <i>against her will</i> have no standing?<br><br>
Good luck to people though, maybe if enough people like this <i>without standing</i> keep bring cases, it might occur to someone that things have gone very badly wrong.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">All these court dismissals are because the people bringing the cases "have no standing", what does that mean?</div>
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Basically, it means they have no right to their day in court. I am only intimately familiar with one of the cases, the Flatt vs. Kantak case where the plaintiff alledged that she was not given sufficient information about the procedure to make an informed decision. The court ruled that the physician had no obligation to provide any information other than what the plaintiff asked in very specific questions and only as much as was absolutely necessary to give her the minimal amount needed to satisfy her. For instance, if Flatt were asking, it could go something like this:<br><br>
Flatt: Is there any risk from circumcision?<br>
Kantak: Yes, but they are insignificant.<br>
Flatt: What are they?<br>
Kantak: There are a range of them but they are unlikely to happen.<br>
Flatt: Name a specific one.<br>
Kantak: There is a slight chance of bleeding that can be addressed.<br>
Flatt: What if it can't be addressed adequately?<br>
Kantak: I've done thousands of circumcisions and have never had that happen. In virtually all of these cases, just compression for a few minutes will stop it.<br><br>
End of conversation! The court's ruling indicated that Kantak did not have to tell Flatt that her child could bleed to death. Kantak or any other doctor would not have to tell her about Ryleigh McWillis had bled to death unless she specifically asked about the case. This would be true of any other complication of circumcision and Kantak would not have to tell Flatt that it is believed that circumcision reduces sexuality for life or that it is a very contentious issue or that the world's medical associations do not recommend circumcision unless Flatt asked specifically about those issues. Even then, Kantak was only required to give sufficient information for Flatt to stop asking questions. Imagine getting this level of information for any other surgical procedure!<br><br>
This is the level of informed consent that the judge found was adequate. In other words, if Anita Flatt did not know enough ahead of time to ask very pointed and highly educated questions, Kantak was not obligated to bring them up for adequate informed consent. This set a precedent for North Dakota for all surgical procedures and anyone that should get this level of informed consent for say breast cancer surgery or a hysterectomy and gets inadequate information has to knock down this case before they can procede. This is clearly not adequate and if this case had been about any surgical procedure other than circumcision, I have little doubt the court would have found far differently.<br><br>
In Gajewski's case, the judge was saying he was not an offended party and had no legal standing to bring suit on their behalf indicating that he would either have to be a boy 18 years old or less who had been circumcised or he would have to be a parent of a boy who had been circumcised. This is actually legally valid. Gajewski should have found someone who is a viable plaintiff and financed the suit for them. Various groups are looking for plaintiffs to bring these types of actions.<br><br>
In the 1996 Fishbeck case, the judge said "there is no assurance at all that the injury claimed by Fishbeck, either on her own behalf of on behalf of her son, would be redressed," It appears that what the judge is saying here is that the foreskin can't be put back so there is no way of compensating the injured and thus, no reason to procede with the case. Of course, this totally ignores the possibility of financial compensation to send a message to the medical profession that they should be very careful in providing the procedure. It appears in this case that the mother, Fishbeck, was opposed to circumcision and the father wanted it. The logical conclusion is that the father went behind the mother's back and consented to the circumcision in collusion with the doctor. That is not ethical practice. If the doctor saw any conflict between the parents, he/she should refuse to provide the procedure until this conflict was resolved. Since there is no immediate medical necessity for the procedure, it would be the prudent and ethical thing to do and if there was no resolution to the conflict, there should be no circumcision. The courts are tightly bound by law and since there is no law requiring the consent of both parents, there wasn't much they could do here even if they had wanted to. With the changing face of the issue, this is something that should be addressed.<br><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Good luck to people though, maybe if enough people like this <i>without standing</i> keep bring cases, it might occur to someone that things have gone very badly wrong.</td>
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That is what will happen. While North Dakota seems to be solidly planted in the dark ages, there are other more progressive states that will address the issue and bit by bit and piece by piece, the courts will hand down precedence to be used in other cases. Eventually, we will find a judge who will give us the golden hammer to pound infant circumcision into the ground.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 
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