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Hi all. My 8 mo son Ryder had a reaction to his DTaP 2 months ago and hasn't been back since (he broke out in red spots from head to toe, perfectly round, looked like a Dr. Seuss picture, my heart stopped, his breathing was labored, they observed for 45 minutes and sent us home). At this point I don't think I want to vaccinate him ever again, or my almost 3yr. old daughter, but I feel I need to do the research. I have a book called "Just a Little Prick", but nit is overwhelmingly huge! Does anyone know of a REPUTABLE SOURCE that gives concise info. about why not to vaccinate? Any leads would be much appreciated!
 

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Have you spent some time in the archives of this board? People have different favorites - I think the depth of the debate indicates the lack of a single, definitive source.<br><br>
To me the question is: why vaccinate? If this were a new, experimental practice (as opposed to an established, experimental practice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> ), would you be considering it?
 

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Well mama, the problem you're going to find is that <i>every. single. time</i>. a person, organization or source gives reasons that vaccines may not be such a great idea, they are immediately deemed disreputable, quacks, unreliable, etc. Basically, the mainstream monster has decided that the basis for determining whether or not a person or group is reliable when it comes to the subject of vaccines, is how they feel about vaccines. If the group does not support current vaccination policy, they are considered unreliable. If the group does support current vaccination policy, they are considered reliable. Therefore, it is literally impossible to find <i>one</i> source that contains <i>all</i> of the pertinent vaccine information and that is also considered reputable by mainstream standards.<br><br>
I second reading the archives here. There isn't one place online where you're going to find all the research nicely organized. You have to take it one disease at a time and ask the questions you need answered. This is a difficult subject and you simply can't get all the information you need in one place. It takes a while, so you have to just be prepared to devote a few months of free moments to learning what you need to learn. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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This is a great book to start with.....by Neil Z. ****** Vaccines: Are they really safe and effective?<br><br><a href="http://www.thinktwice.com/vac.htm" target="_blank">http://www.thinktwice.com/vac.htm</a>
 

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And Randall Neustadter's book. This guy is often invited for live chat in mothering.<br><br>
Randall's book gives details of each disease for which vaccines are available. It also gives details on each vaccine.<br><br>
Med. establishment will always label non vax sites quack. Since these two sides (medical establishment vs alternative health) will have bias towards each other till the cows come home. So bear that in mind when you research about vaccine.<br><br>
Other example is on autism. Autism sites which give reference on mercury link to autism and suggest alternative meds are not recommended (or labeled as quack sites). Yet, many moms who have autistic children used the alternative route and got good results from them. The research performed by 'quack'autism organization are also labeled as pseudoscience by the med. establishment.<br><br>
I would second the suggestion to read Neil ******'s book: Is vaccine safe and effective ? and Randall's book. I think it's important to know the reason why the unvax people unvax because all of us know why vax people vax, right ? Then look at websites which give you a look at each vaccine (i.e. the content of each vaccine) . Learn what you can about the diseases touted to be prevented by vaccines. And learn about how our body achieve immunity and how to boost it (anyway, you'll find that vaccine only stimulates one kind of immunity, whereas our body has numerous ways to protect ourselves). Then decide for yourself.<br><br>
Hope this helps.<br><br>
mom2moon2
 

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I would think until the following is understood, (especially #1 on the list) one is taking a great risk when vaccinating:<br><br>
Adverse Vaccine Reactions Not Understood<br><br>
In the United States, The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 established a Committee from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) to review the adverse consequences of childhood vaccines.<br><br>
This group found severe limits in the knowledge and research capability on vaccine safety.<br><br>
Of the 76 vaccine adverse events they reviewed for causal relation, 50 (66%) had no or inadequate research.<br><br>
Specifically, the IOM Committees identified the following limitation's:<br><br>
1) <b><span style="color:#FF0000;">Inadequate understanding of biologic mechanisms underlying adverse events;</span></b><br><br>
2) Insufficient or inconsistent information from case reports and case series;<br><br>
3) Inadequate size or length of follow-up of many population-based epidemiologic studies;<br><br>
4) Limitations of existing surveillance systems to provide persuasive evidence of causation and<br><br>
5) Few experimental studies published relative to the total number of epidemiologic studies published.13,14<br><br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/research/peds.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/research/peds.htm</a>
 

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Have you spent any time looking through the VAERS database?<br><br><a href="http://www.medalerts.org/" target="_blank">http://www.medalerts.org/</a><br><br>
This is the CDC site for logging vaccine reaction reports. One thing that I noticed when I started doing my research (after my dd had a mild reaction to the DTaP) was that the children who died after a shot reaction often had mild or non-life threatening reactions before with previous shots. Scary stuff.
 

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here is a link to when the CDC says not to vaccinate.<br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/recs/contraindications.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/recs/contraindications.htm</a><br><br>
one of the things that began to turn me off to vaccines was realizing that even the CDC's own vaccine contraindications aren't widely know. it made me feel like, what else is undisputed but not "out there" for parents?<br><br>
i haven't found one single vaccine source that i feel is totally complete. i find that the "anti-vaccine" sites tend to go too far for me, citing science i don't think is legit. unfortunately, the pro-vaccine side just goes ahead and assumes "if it's not PROVEN unsafe, then it must be safe" waaaay too often. i think you'll eventually find that you have to make a decision without all of the information, which is why you can have 2 people review the same information and come to different conclusions.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Basically, the mainstream monster has decided that the basis for determining whether or not a person or group is reliable when it comes to the subject of vaccines, is how they feel about vaccines.</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"><br><br>
To the OP, there is no magical website or book that's going to jump out and tell you everything you want to hear. There is a lot of good info right here and there are many sites, including the CDC site, that offer raw data. You just have to look for it. Researching vaccination has been one of the most tiresome yet interesting tasks I have taken on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you all so much who took the time to give me leads! I think it's clear that there is no easy answer, and I'll just continue to do the research. I have just been so overwhelmed that I was hoping for an 'easy out', so to speak. I'll just suck it up and start researching again.<br><br>
Thanks again for your help!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:
 

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It took me about 2 years to come to the conclusion not to vaccinate.<br><br>
There is so much to read and think about. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nut.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nut">:<br><br>
I like to read the Pink Book.
 

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I think when I read that the CDC says that patients are more likely to have a vax reaction than get the actual diseases it really cemented my decision to not vax.<br><br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/safety.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/safety.pdf</a> Read Decreases in Disease risk.
 

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I actually stressed out for months over the vax no-vax issue and went through alot of research on both sides. I was not completely convinced either way until I saw a documentary posted on <a href="http://www.mercola.com" target="_blank">www.mercola.com</a>. You can search his site for it. Honestly, I have not regretted my decision at all.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>2 in August</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7920707"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think when I read that the CDC says that patients are more likely to have a vax reaction than get the actual diseases it really cemented my decision to not vax.<br><br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/safety.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/safety.pdf</a> Read Decreases in Disease risk.</div>
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I, too, have been debating on whether or not to vax my child. I've always been completely against the Chicken Pox vax....it just seemed ridiculous to me, and my very mainstream fiance agreed with me on that. Since I felt that way about CP, I started to wonder about other vax's and if it was worth it. But I've felt SO overwhelmed with all the info. I had/have no idea where to start.<br><br>
But seeing the CDC say that it's more likely you'll have a vax reaction than the actual disease....that's all it took for me. That blows my mind. My 3 mo. ds has had the first round, but he will NOT be getting any more.<br><br>
Now I need to find out what I need to do get a exemption! (Anyone know how Nebraska works? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> )
 

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I got Sherri Tedpenny's book, and found it to be very informative. Its basicly her slide show in book form with some other articles and such thrown in. The numbers for some of the vaxes are just crazy. Why do we still immunize for polio? We quit immunizing for small pox after it went away, so why not do the same for polio?? Same goes for diptheria. Pertussis just flat doesn't work and it sounds the same for tetanus. And then of course theres the MMR shot which, none of the diseases sound lifethreatening to me (basicly same as chicken pox - can be, but only very very rarely are in otherwise healthy kids). And none of hte newer ones (for HIB and the like) sound very proven (either effective or safe) to me at least.<br><br>
Hope that helps!!
 
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