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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a very interesting study from China on the effects of a live, non-adjuvanted, vaccine BCG and an adjuvanted vaccine hepB on the TH1 and TH2 immune response and in turn how it affects the brain. The BCG vaccine is a single antigen live vaccine and acts in a similar way to a natural infection, whereas, the hepB vaccine contains a neurotoxic aluminum adjuvant and no live virus.

The BCG vaccine activated the TH1 arm of the immune system and the HepB the TH2. The BCG had a beneficial effect on the brain and the HepB had a detrimental effect. When both vaccines were administered they canceled each other out.

Relevance to Autism
Autistics have Th2 bias. Autistics have abnormally low IFN-g (associated with Th1), and abnormally high IL-4 (associated with Th2). So, autistics have the same immune system imbalance that is produced by the hepatitis B vaccine in this study. Also, it is known that aluminum adjuvant causes Th2 bias. The Hep B vaccine contains aluminum adjuvant and the BCG vaccine does not contain aluminum adjuvant (BCG vaccine contains no adjuvant).
An important finding in this study is that many of the effects of hep B vaccine did not appear until age 8 weeks. This finding undermines claims of vaccine safety, which are almost always based on short-term outcomes of a few days or weeks. Furthermore, 8 weeks is a long time in rats. 8 week old rats are almost fully mature adults. This suggests that adverse effects of vaccines may take years or decades to appear in humans. This is consistent with what is known about immune activation and schizophrenia. Immune activation in the fetus can cause schizophrenia 20-30 years later.
http://vaccinepapers.org/two-vaccines-opposite-effects-brain/
 

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That is an interesting article and the focus on longer-term effects in particular.

Lately I've been seeing attacks on Gardasil girls for talking about problems that developed several months after vaccination. The claim is that there just cannot be a connection between a vaccine and something that develops months later.

Why not? In diseases, this is biologically plausible. There are diseases that cause immediate symptoms and there are others that can take years to manifest. Or you get something with a small, immediate symptom and then it goes out of sight for a while. Lyme disease sometimes acts like this. So does syphilis. It does seem possible that some problems that develop after vaccination might take months or even years to become clearly visible. And then, of course, no one could possibly make a connection between a slowly developing condition and the vaccine received two years back.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The paper's conclusion:



“We propose a hypothesis that a systemic Th1/Th2 bias modulates central cytokines and neurotrophins and thereby affects the neurogenic niche, which is tightly correlated with synaptic plasticity. Previous reports support this hypothesis. It was reported that cognitive deficit was related to decreased Th1/Th2 balance in periphery and could be recovered when the balance was restored (Jakobsson et al., 2014; Palumbo et al., 2012).”

“..our data suggested that combinations of different vaccines can mutually interact (enhance or counteract). The mechanism of synaptic plasticity modulation through neonatal BCG/HBV vaccination may be via systemic Th1/Th2 bias accompanied by a specific profile of cytokines and neurotrophins in the brain. Our work highlights a critical role of neonatal vaccination in synaptic plasticity outside of infectious disease prevention, which suggests the necessity of further studies on the association of vaccination with brain development under normal physiological conditions.”
A side note, my eldest DD had the BCG and hep B as a newborn in the hospital, as did all (unless you were savvy enough to decline) babies born in Hong Kong in the early 1990s.
 

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Aaby has done important work on non-specific effects of vaccines, although his research hasn't had a lot of effect on actual vaccine schedules. This article is available free full-text for anyone who wants to dig into this stuff. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24920644
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What is interesting to me is the beneficial non-specific effect of the BCG vaccine on the brain of the mice. As the paper said, the live single antigen acts like a natural infection. Remember all those mothers' observations of their children taking developmental leaps after natural measles infection? Maybe they weren't fuzzy memories after all.
 

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What is interesting to me is the beneficial non-specific effect of the BCG vaccine on the brain of the mice. As the paper said, the live single antigen acts like a natural infection. Remember all those mothers' observations of their children taking developmental leaps after natural measles infection? Maybe they weren't fuzzy memories after all.
Yes, since vaccines do come with risks, it is probably possible to figure out ways to get the same beneficial non-specific effects by other, less risky methods. I'm reminded of Dr. Suzanne Humphries discussion of normal neonatal development and how vaccines interfere with this path by trying to get particular immune responses long before the baby's system is ready to deliver them.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, since vaccines do come with risks, it is probably possible to figure out ways to get the same beneficial non-specific effects by other, less risky methods. I'm reminded of Dr. Suzanne Humphries discussion of normal neonatal development and how vaccines interfere with this path by trying to get particular immune responses long before the baby's system is ready to deliver them.
I don't think we need to figure it out. Mother Nature has already done that for us.
 

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I don't think we need to figure it out. Mother Nature has already done that for us.
Yes and no. People have gotten sort of dense. Stuff that was obvious has become difficult and puzzling and looks like it needs fixing. Getting back to the obvious is the challenge of human life in the present!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes and no. People have gotten sort of dense. Stuff that was obvious has become difficult and puzzling and looks like it needs fixing. Getting back to the obvious is the challenge of human life in the present!
That is a matter of waking up. There is still nothing to fix. That is the very real truth.
 

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That is a matter of waking up. There is still nothing to fix. That is the very real truth.
I'll give an example.

When my mother was having babies, hospitals actively interfered with breastfeeding and my mother failed at nursing her first two, despite being in close contact with her mother who had successfully breastfed four children. The problem was that my grandmother had no conscious understanding of HOW to breastfeed. She just did it. And despite being an intelligent, widely read and competent woman she had never really thought about breastfeeding.

So something that most women had done with no horrific failure rate throughout most of history was successfully undermined by a few medical jerks and breastfeeding became a real challenge for most women, something that only the most dedicated managed to do.

Since then, with the work of La Leche League and the development of lactation consultants, breastfeeding has been partially recovered, but it was a long hard slog.

I see the same sort of problems with other obvious stuff like nutrition, co-sleeping, unmedicated childbirth etc. Things may be obvious, but there are a lot of artificial mountains placed in the path of most people who are trying to get to the obvious.

There is a lot of money and power and lies standing in the way of having a healthy baby. Someone even wrote a book about it--Margulis The Business of Baby.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@Deborah I have no problem with your observations and it is wonderful that organizations like LLL are here to help mothers access their maternal wisdom. The point I am making is this wisdom is within Nature, always has been and always will be, and is evident in all aspects of the natural world. The problem is people are so disconnected that they cannot access this innate wisdom, and I will also note, that, for whatever reason, great effort has been made to prevent us from doing this. When we wake up to this powerful truth and we can begin to trust our intuition and follow our hearts, life flows in beauty and harmony. Until we do this as a species we can never be sovereign and will need "science" to tell us what is in front of our noses. If the science is actually truthful, otherwise we are being lied to.
 

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@Deborah I have no problem with your observations and it is wonderful that organizations like LLL are here to help mothers access their maternal wisdom. The point I am making is this wisdom is within Nature, always has been and always will be, and is evident in all aspects of the natural world. The problem is people are so disconnected that they cannot access this innate wisdom, and I will also note, that, for whatever reason, great effort has been made to prevent us from doing this. When we wake up to this powerful truth and we can begin to trust our intuition and follow our hearts, life flows in beauty and harmony. Until we do this as a species we can never be sovereign and will need "science" to tell us what is in front of our noses. If the science is actually truthful, otherwise we are being lied to.
Well said!
 
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