Abortion, the Taliban, and the Constitution

1227 Views 39 Replies 20 Participants Last post by *Erin*, Jun 19, 2004

goodcents

Discussion Starter · Jun 15, 2004

If we let religious principles guide, and in fact make, our political decisions for us, have the American people not become like the Taliban?

Are we not in fact allowing "Christiandom" to rule this country, just like the Taliban let their "Islamic Extremism" rule theirs?

For example their are a number of posters here that feel the candidate that will receive thier vote is the one that is Pro-Life. Isnt this a form of political and religious extremism? Do these people not believe in the separation of church and state? If they don't believe in it, are they aware of the similarities that their "kind" share with "that kind" i.e. the Taliban? Sure maybe we are'nt dressing women in burqas and demoting them in life and liberty, but taking away reproductive rights is a step in that direction.

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aussiemum

· #2 · Jun 16, 2004

Doesn't look like anybody's going to bite, goodcents, so I will. What a surprise.

Quote:

If we let religious principles guide, and in fact make, our political decisions for us, have the American people not become like the Taliban?

well, that's prolly taking it a bit too far, but the US does look more & more like a theocracy for modern times....

Quote:

Are we not in fact allowing "Christiandom" to rule this country, just like the Taliban let their "Islamic Extremism" rule theirs?

yes, IMO, Christianity does rule in the US. At the very least gov't is increasingly based on (conservative evangelical) Christian principles. And not all Christians are conservative evangelical, of course- would NOT want to lump such a diverse group all together!!

Quote:

Do these people not believe in the separation of church and state?

I believe a lot of folks would like to get rid of that. And no, I don't think that they see the similarities to any other sort of religious-based government. My personal experience with the Christian church was that I had to accept that Christianity was 'right' & every other religion was 'wrong', & if you can't do that, then you don't belong. I am sure there are a variety of ways to look at that, depending on the church..... But that sort of mind set makes it easy to base a government in religion- ie: 'My religion is the 'right' one, therefore you all are wrong & misinformed & should be treated as the ignoramuses that you are...' (and yes, I know that's not a word!)

I believe I have said this here before: try inserting the word 'allah' instead of 'god' when you hear a politician speak. It's particularly effective with Dubya as he invokes God so often. When the 'other' side does this & invokes Allah in a speech, we call them fanatics.....

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RachelGS

· #3 · Jun 16, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiemum
I believe I have said this here before: try inserting the word 'allah' instead of 'god' when you hear a politician speak. It's particularly effective with Dubya as he invokes God so often. When the 'other' side does this & invokes Allah in a speech, we call them fanatics.....

That's a pretty powerful exercise!

Joyce in the mts.

· #4 · Jun 16, 2004

Absolutely! Always interesting and effective.

Interesting to put the shoe on the other foot, eh?

Joyce in the mts.

gethane

· #5 · Jun 16, 2004

Irony: We go to "free" the Afghani people from their oppressive religious government while here at home we move step by step closer to an oppressive religious government.

librarymom

· #6 · Jun 16, 2004

ITA--and also wonder why it is that so many people say they did/will vote for Bush because he's born again/Christian, whatever. Have we ever had a Pres that wasn't Christian????? I cannot understand how this makes him different from Kerry.

Rainbow

· #7 · Jun 16, 2004

I know it is over stated but freedom of religion means freedom from religion.

However, I think the people who are pro-life don't see it as a religious belief but an ethical one- like murder or robbery.

abortions took place in biblical times, by way of herbs primarily but physically as well and yet the bible doesn't directly approach teh subject. I have a hard time believing that something that was meant to be a foremost concern wasn't approached by Jesus or the early Christians.

Rainbow

· #8 · Jun 16, 2004

Wasn't Thomas Jefferson a free thinker?

Rainbow

· #9 · Jun 16, 2004

http://www.thehappyheretic.com/11-97.htm some neat information the presidents fo the past not devoted to Christianity.

TiredX2

· #10 · Jun 16, 2004

Darn! Beat me to it.

DebraBaker

· #11 · Jun 16, 2004

I believe abortion infringes on the rights of the unborn child.

I also know outlawing abortion infringes on the rights of the pregnant woman.

This is why abortion is such a divisive issue, both sides have a valid point.

I err on the side of life for the baby. Not on religious grounds but on civil rights grounds.

Understanding the other pov.

Ducking the tomatoes for the second time today.....

DB

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Rainbow

· #12 · Jun 17, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiredX2
Darn! Beat me to it.

:LOL it was fascinating to read how many of our founders were not Christian. but when you think of it most the "christian" flavor is more recent than the founding decades (pledge for example)

librarymom

· #13 · Jun 17, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow
:LOL it was fascinating to read how many of our founders were not Christian. but when you think of it most the "christian" flavor is more recent than the founding decades (pledge for example)

This is what I was getting at, earlier. In recent times...the christianity is more important. Big to-do over Kennedy being the first Catholic and all. I think we need to head back that way...I cannot abide the "I

Bush because he's born-again" camp.

My mom and I argue this about once a month. She dines with a lot of conservative women who always talk Bush up. She disagrees but won't speak up (avoiding conflict you know) (except with me...hmmm...). Anyway--when she says they love him because he's "Christian"--I always ask--what does that MEAN??? I think it means different things to different people and cannot see how this makes him a good President, or any different from Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon...all christians.

Does this make any sense???

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chicagomom

· #14 · Jun 17, 2004

John Kerry is a Christian too - a Catholic one.

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librarymom

· #15 · Jun 17, 2004

Right--so how is Bush's christianity so much more ***** for some people than all previous Presidents?? I just don't get it.

gethane

· #16 · Jun 17, 2004

I'm not a christian, so maybe my opinion matters little, but jimmy carter seems to me to be a much better christian. He always seem to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. He's still walking it, at 80+ years old (Habitat for humanity). Contrast that with jumping out of planes for your birthday.

librarymom

· #17 · Jun 17, 2004

3

Quote:

Originally Posted by gethane
I'm not a christian, so maybe my opinion matters little, but jimmy carter seems to me to be a much better christian. He always seem to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. He's still walking it, at 80+ years old (Habitat for humanity). Contrast that with jumping out of planes for your birthday.

Excellent post.

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mahdokht

· #18 · Jun 17, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by gethane
I'm not a christian, so maybe my opinion matters little, but jimmy carter seems to me to be a much better christian. He always seem to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. He's still walking it, at 80+ years old (Habitat for humanity). Contrast that with jumping out of planes for your birthday.

ARGH. That reminds me, I was watching a program on George Bush Sr. and they were interviewing him about how "active" he's been since he left the white house he gave that famous Bush family smirk and said "Well I don't wanna sit around like Carter and Ford writing letters all day trying to save the world, I've got more exciting things to do." I got sick to my stomach, yelled at the screen and turned the channel. MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO THAN SAVE THE WORLD? What an ***. I mean he might as well have said "the people don't have bread, then let them eat cake."

Morgaine

· #19 · Jun 17, 2004

I agree with Debra, it is not because if religion that I am pro-life. I believe that becaues it is illegal to kill outside the womb it should also be illegal inside.

mealymama

· #20 · Jun 17, 2004

You are assuming everyon'e opposition to abortion is religious. That's a mistake.
I'm not taking a stand here, by the way... just passing through to post my funny-haha bush link in W&P. Political forums cause pre-term labor, it's well known :LOL

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