[AquariusHome]

Or maybe he's just 6 and nothing more. IDK

My ODS is extemely intelligent, does wonderfully in school, etc. He's always been the kind of kid who could sit for hours and focus on something of interest to him - like his airplanes or legos (or even better lego airplanes

). That hasn't changed. But recently he is having trouble with the most basic routine activities. He absolutely cannot be left to get himself dressed, pick up his toys, clear the table, or anything else he is supposed to be doing as he is WAY too distracted. Last night I had to remind him 2-3 times for each plate he was trying to clear off the table. In between he was too busy pretending to fly his airplane. He absolutely cannot focus well enough to do these things.

Maybe it's nothing. Maybe he's just an imaginative 6 yr old. If you think so please tell me - it will help ease my mind.

He doesn't have any food allergies or intolerances that I know of, but he did have terrible reflux as a baby, chronic ear infections and spasmodic croup as a toddler, intense emotional outbursts and aggression as a pre-schooler, pretty significant KP, frequent dark circles under his eyes, allergic to penicillin, still wets the bed at night at times, ... Just wondering if this newest phase is our next set of symptoms.

Are there particular foods (beyond artificial colors and sweeteners) that might be most likely to cause attention issues? Anyone have a similar story?

 

[kjbrown92]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurieG He doesn't have any food allergies or intolerances that I know of, but he did have terrible reflux as a baby, chronic ear infections and spasmodic croup as a toddler, intense emotional outbursts and aggression as a pre-schooler, pretty significant KP, frequent dark circles under his eyes, allergic to penicillin, still wets the bed at night at times, ... Just wondering if this newest phase is our next set of symptoms. Are there particular foods (beyond artificial colors and sweeteners) that might be most likely to cause attention issues? Anyone have a similar story?

Um... I'd say he has food intolerances that you DON'T know of. It could be any food. I'd start by taking out dairy since he's had chronic ear infections (which also causes reflux and bedwetting in my DS). If you want more, take out dairy, gluten, soy, and corn. ADHD, if he did have it, is part of autism spectrum, so you could try GFCF (gluten/dairy free) if you want another option. Keep a food diary and see if you can figure out the trigger for the bedwetting or the outbursts or any of it to see if it's a lesser (not so pervasive) food.

 

[AquariusHome]

Kathy - I agree he must have some food intolerances. I had planned on doing an ED with both the boys once school is out.

But does this lack of focus seem like normal kid stuff?

I didn't realize ADHD is part of the spectrum.

 

[Multimomma]

Well, *I* would say that part of it is normal. Pretty much every child I know goes through the phase of being 'distracted'. Some of it is choice...he's now realizing that he HAS a choice to listen or not. To obey or not.

How much is normal depends on the child, and no one else knows him as well as you do. The eyes and wetting the bed would be signals to me of some sort of allergy though...could be food, or could be seasonal. My daughter always has more outbursts during pollen season, when she feels bad, it's harder to control those emotions for all of us!

All of my airborne allergic kids have the circles under their eyes. Both of my allergy children have emotional responses to food allergens.

Has he had any sort of allergy testing? Honestly that would be my first step, and maybe cutting back on milk IF he seemed to eat it overly much. You might try an OTC allergy medicine just to see if that helps at all, just for a week or so.

 

[AquariusHome]

I guess I'm looking for stories from those of you who have similar aged kids who you know their triggers and have eliminated them. Is being zoned out just part of the picture of a young school aged kid, allergies or not?

It also seems odd that this is getting so much worse right now? I have a hypothesis that it goes with the full bucket theory. It's getting to be spring time and environmental / pollen allergies are kicking up. Maybe he could manage better when he was just dealing with the foods, but add in the pollens are he's over the top. That thought made me wonder about kids in general - "they" always say kids get crazy in the spring-time. I wonder how much allergies play in to that.

 

[AquariusHome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multimomma Well, *I* would say that part of it is normal. Pretty much every child I know goes through the phase of being 'distracted'. Some of it is choice...he's now realizing that he HAS a choice to listen or not. To obey or not. How much is normal depends on the child, and no one else knows him as well as you do. The eyes and wetting the bed would be signals to me of some sort of allergy though...could be food, or could be seasonal. My daughter always has more outbursts during pollen season, when she feels bad, it's harder to control those emotions for all of us! All of my airborne allergic kids have the circles under their eyes. Both of my allergy children have emotional responses to food allergens. Has he had any sort of allergy testing? Honestly that would be my first step, and maybe cutting back on milk IF he seemed to eat it overly much. You might try an OTC allergy medicine just to see if that helps at all, just for a week or so.

I posted at the same time as you.

He was SPT'ed around age 3 and was negative to everything. At that time we were looking for a reason for his chronic croup. We've gone milk free in the past, I don't know how helpful it was - definitely didn't take away the issues altogether. We've also used Claritin for a bit with him. He's definitely stuffy this week, so I suspect environmental allergies is playing a role too.

Thanks for your thoughts on the distractibility.

 

[kjbrown92]

When my DS has his intolerance triggers, he wets the bed (for milk), is easily distracted, doesn't listen well, or follow the rules, has tantrums, cries at the least provacation, and is very needy. When all the allergens are removed, he is a nice sweet kid, like last night offering to help me make cookies and pie even though neither of us could have them (for a regular people bake sale). Not enough sleep plays into it as well. And when DS is off his foods, his severe ragweed allergy is practically non-existent. The bucket is probably full (or overflowing) if he's got both food and environmental triggers. If you don't want to start an ED now, you could at least start a food journal for both of them and see if you can figure it out that way.

 

[LauraLoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurieG I guess I'm looking for stories from those of you who have similar aged kids who you know their triggers and have eliminated them. Is being zoned out just part of the picture of a young school aged kid, allergies or not? It also seems odd that this is getting so much worse right now? I have a hypothesis that it goes with the full bucket theory. It's getting to be spring time and environmental / pollen allergies are kicking up. Maybe he could manage better when he was just dealing with the foods, but add in the pollens are he's over the top. That thought made me wonder about kids in general - "they" always say kids get crazy in the spring-time. I wonder how much allergies play in to that.

You probably won't know, until you know, ya know? Someone doesn't have to have allergies to be distractable. On the other hand, what you are describing is perfectly normal for a bright child that has a wonderful imagination. What's more fun? Creating a wonderful and exciting mental picture, or making your bed? IME, it is perfectly normal to be distractable at this age.

On the other hand, if you feel pretty yucky a lot of the time, it doesn't give you much energy to focus on the tasks that need to be done. Full bucket theory would definitely apply here -- he can manage ok when only dealing with food allergies, but now that environmental ones are in the picture, he's overloaded. But I would also say with the list of the other symptoms he's having, looking diet issues would definitely be a good place to start. Maybe it will help with his focus, and maybe it won't. But he'll probably feel a whole lot better.

And btw, even though he was tested at 3, you might want to have him retested. He may have developed allergies.

kjbrown92 -- do you have a site that cites that ADHD is part of the autistic spectrum? I've come across this now twice in 2 days on MDC and spent a good portion of last night googling and haven't found any supporting info.

 

[tanyalynn]

Laura, I don't know that ADHD is truly considered spectrum, but people who are approaching the various behavior issues that kids manifest as health-related often see them as different individuals manifesting in different ways. The best place I know to read about it is Kenneth Bock's book (he's a DAN!) here...

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Ch...9465148&sr=8-1

He feels that autism, adhd, asthma and allergies are all different manifestations of toxic load, gut health, all those interrelated health issues. And based on my personal experience with me and the kids, I see very different manifestations in my two children.

Laurie--I can't exactly answer your question. I can say that my daughter's ability (she's 5.5yo now) to interact positively and constructively, to be helpful, to have smooth interactions with everyone else, has increased markedly as she's felt better. She's not perfect, I'm certainly not either, and that's not even the goal, but our family is calmer and there's a lot less nagging and head-butting than there used to be. Kids do have ups and downs, and times when other stuff is more important, but given the other signs you see in him, and the overall health picture of your family, I would not assume this is just normal, typical development.

 

[LauraLoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez Laura, I don't know that ADHD is truly considered spectrum, but people who are approaching the various behavior issues that kids manifest as health-related often see them as different individuals manifesting in different ways. .

That I completely understand -- and part of what I found last night was this:

From Medscape Today: (it's through WebMD, but you may have to sign up to view the article)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/523295_4
"Review of AAP ADHD Guidelines--Evidence-Based Recommendations for Evaluation, Diagnosis, and Treatment Protocol Development
Diagnoses
Combining Diagnosis Factors: Multiple Settings, Subtypes"

Under the current DSM-IV criteria, if autism is present, clinicians cannot make a comorbid diagnosis of ADHD. However, because the treatments for ADHD are symptomatic and not diagnostically specific, some ADHD treatments have been used clinically to benefit some children within the autism spectrum of disorders as an off-label use.

So, the DSM IV separates ADHD from anything on the autistic spectrum.

I also know that the DSM V is proposed to launch in 2010 (or so) and the revisions may allow for a comorbid dx of ADHD and autism, but there is still nothing that moves ADHD to the autistic spectrum:

http://psychiatry.org/MainMenu/Resea...oupReport.aspx

 

[tanyalynn]

I think you're right, the diagnostic labels are separate. But for people who are trying to address their kids' health problems, the label isn't as important as the underlying cause, and if the underlying cause, like for my kids, is crazy-high heavy metals, then how I treat the issue doesn't change, regardless of my kids' specific symptoms.

 

[kjbrown92]

I've heard it a lot recently too so I assumed it to be true... now I'm looking further...

"Although ADHD symptoms are not officially part of the ASD criteria for any of the official dx's, it is found in virtually all kids on the spectrum (either with or without the hyperactivity factor). In fact, many very well-respected autism docs are currently looking in to seeing if those symptoms can eventually be added to the criteria."

Also a discussion site in the UK said that in some countries (didn't specify which) ADD/ADHD was part of ASD, but not in the UK. Though looking at Australia sites, Australia might be one of them that considers it on the spectrum.

BED is to heal ADHD and ASD so there's got to be a connection.

Another site says that 99% of ASD people also have ADHD or ADD. Yet another site says they can't co-exist, but that the ADHD/ADD symptoms are part of ASD. So it's definitely confusing at best.

Sorry if I continued to spread misinformation.

Six is a hard age as kids exert their independence and grow a mind of their own. I agree about playing being more fun than chores. I've taken to telling DS one thing at a time, since he only seems to retain one at a time...

 

[lil_miss_understood]

All I can say is that when I took DS1 to see the doctor when he was 3, the doctor told me that, as far as she was concerned, he should be considered autistic and, as we've removed food allergens, that diagnosis has shifted from autistic to first severe ADHD, then moderate and now mild. Of course, this is not the same doctor we first saw, but it was the same doctor when the shift was from autism to severe ADHD.

:

 

[crunchy_mama]

I don't have much time but wanted to give a quick answer. I have eliminated dyes and preservatives completely but actually haven't found them to be our big trigger- really unexpectedly.

Salicylates are a much bigger trigger for behavior issues(for us). Lots of grapes or strawberries and he totally lacks the inability to listen, to focus, to sit still- it will drive you bonkers.

Also- after going gf/cf he had MASSIVE improvements in learning ie went from scribbling tiny little circles to drawing little people and monsters in a couple months time period and many other examples.

 

[AquariusHome]

I'm going to move OT for a moment - this thing about bedwetting being tied to food intolerances....

My 6 yr old has been able to sleep without pull ups or the like for at least 2 or 2 1/2 yrs now, but occassionally wets the bed. Generally we can tie it to him not going to the bathroom one last time before bed, or being exceptionally tired, or drinking more than usual in the evening. But not always.

My 4 1/2 yr old, who I'm absolutely certain has multiple food intolerances that we haven't figured out, has a soaking wet pull up every morning. He is nowhere close to staying dry through the night. Many nights he's peed so much he still wets the bed even with the pull up on. I thought it was just a maturation thing, but now I'm wonding if that is tied in with his food intolerances too.

At what age does peeing at night shift from normal to not-normal?

 

[FireWithin]

haven't read all of the responses.

This fall I trialed dairy back into my 5.5 year old's diet. The reactions at first were slow and subtle. By the time we declared the dairy trial a failure, I was convinced if we continued down that path, he would be on ADHD and asthma meds. Off of his allergens he is kind, focused, thoughtful, just a regular kid, on allergens, wow I don't think he could survive in a classroom.

This winter we realized he had a problem with corn. Once we removed it, and all of its derivitives, he stopped wetting the bed multiple times a night. Since Feb, he has wet the bed 2 times. It was amazing.

 

[LauraLoo]

Laurie -- You may be interested in looking at this site regarding how some behavioral symptoms can mean a wide variety of potential causes:

http://www.add-adhd.org/attention_deficits_ADHD.html

 

[kjbrown92]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurieG I'm going to move OT for a moment - this thing about bedwetting being tied to food intolerances.... My 6 yr old has been able to sleep without pull ups or the like for at least 2 or 2 1/2 yrs now, but occassionally wets the bed. Generally we can tie it to him not going to the bathroom one last time before bed, or being exceptionally tired, or drinking more than usual in the evening. But not always. My 4 1/2 yr old, who I'm absolutely certain has multiple food intolerances that we haven't figured out, has a soaking wet pull up every morning. He is nowhere close to staying dry through the night. Many nights he's peed so much he still wets the bed even with the pull up on. I thought it was just a maturation thing, but now I'm wonding if that is tied in with his food intolerances too. At what age does peeing at night shift from normal to not-normal?

DS wets the bed the night AFTER he consumes dairy and the next night and the next night. DD2 just turned 4 and she's been out of pull-ups at night for... 4 or 5 months. When we trialed beef for her (moderate intolerance), she started wetting the bed. Took it back out, she was dry. My DD1 (no food intolerances) was wet/dry trained at the same time 3 months before she turned 3. She wet the bed maybe twice and never did again. I never did pull ups with her. DS and DD2 don't have anything to drink after dinner (which is usually done by 6:30pm). They have a small drink (maybe 3-4 oz.) when they brush their teeth and then they go pee (they go to bed at 7:30). I think if he's soaking wet and he's not drinking a lot at night and he's 4.5, and you think he has intolerances already, it could definitely be one of the symptoms. Have you done a food journal yet?

 

[LauraLoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbrown92 Another site says that 99% of ASD people also have ADHD or ADD. Yet another site says they can't co-exist, but that the ADHD/ADD symptoms are part of ASD. So it's definitely confusing at best. Sorry if I continued to spread misinformation.

It is confusing. My concern with whether or not autism and ADHD can be considered part of the same spectrum is that many people stop at that and don't look any further. Incorrectly lumping dx's mean that it's harder to find out if there are any other possible causes. For example, if kids can be misdiagnosed with ADHD or autism, many people wouldn't consider learning disorders or food allergies as being the sole culprit. Instead, they may choose to medicate for ADHD which would never address the real issue. Anxiety issues also appear to be a comorbid dx with ADHD and autism, but is the anxiety a byproduct of ADHD or autism, or is anxiety causing the ADHD and/or autistic like behavior? Or is the anxiety a natural reaction to having a learning disorder which makes navigating life more difficult and thus causes difficulty with interpersonal relationships and a lower threshold of distractability?

ADHD continues to be a controversial diagnosis because the criteria is based on behavior characteristics and so many of the behaviors overlap with other possible causes. I've read too many cases of children being misdiagnosed with ADHD or autism only to have the dx be lifted later. If you can cure ADHD or autism with dietary changes, then was it really ADHD/autism or a food intollerance? I find the medical community about as clear as mud a lot of the time.

And while all this may not necessarily appear to be pertinent to the OP's question, it truly believe it is. She is trying to figure out if this could be ADHD or food allergies, or both or ????

 

[tanyalynn]

Laura, I agree 100%! It's so difficult, sometimes, to get past the label to figure out the reason, and even harder when there are different reasons for different people! I love MDC, seriously, it's gotten me through so much. For me, the first label I had to overcome was hypothyroid. It took a year to decide that it wasn't permanent, nor inevitable despite my family history, but just getting past the medical label was a real hurdle.

And I don't remember if it was this thread or the Chat Thread, talking about folks who won't look past the conventional medicine explanation, even if that's not actually helping their kids. But this is just it, what we see gives us insight into what's going on in a person, mind and body, and then we can decide how to address that (or get a list and start working through it).