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She is my only child, she has a ds4 and dd2mos. They attend a church which believes in the "spare the rod, spoil the child" principle. I spanked her until she was about age 5. I have never spanked my grandson or my stepkids. I am not comfortable with it anymore. My dd comes to me asking what to do with her ds, she is frustrated with him every day. From what she tells me I feel like she needs to be picking her battles with him. Examples, she put him to bed the other night and he wouldn't let go of his $5 and $1 bills (from his bday a couple weeks ago), he wanted to sleep with them. She grabbed them from his hand and he pitched a fit. I told her, he's too young to understand the concept of money and that he wasn't hurting anything with such a small amount of money, it was a bit rude, imo, to just grab something from him like that. I suggested instead of grabbing the money she could have suggested that they could put it in his bank. She said that made sense. Today I was over at her house while she was unpacking a new sewing machine on the floor. Ds was excited to play in the empty box but it had some little styrofeam pieces in it that she didn't want to get in the carpet. She got mad at him, he got upset and they sent him to his room where he shouted and cried. I suggested she could have let him play in the box since it wasn't hurting anything. She said it was a pain in the butt to removed the styrofoam even with the vacuum and she was standing by her decision.<br><br>
Meanwhile, her hubby went in there to try and reason with him and said he had to spank him and that he wasn't going to get to ride his new bike. SIL, DD and my husband were talking about kids needing to be disciplined and that if it's not working, up the ante so to speak (my words). I was outnumbered. At one point he peeked out and i waved and he waved back. He came closer and my daughter said something to him, I didn't hear and she sent him back to the room where he got even more agitated. I was heartbroken!! And she wonders why he's so "bad" and "disrespectful" and "unpleasant".<br><br>
He loves spending the night with me and his Poppie. He has fun and doesn't cause us any problems. Wouldn't he become confused with two totally different parenting methods? I would like to make a difference with him so that he could take some positive feelings away about himself whenever he leaves our house.<br><br>
Well, sorry this is so long. I wanted advice but I don't really know what could be done except to continue trying to talk to my daughter and to give my grandson a relaxed and respectful atmosphere.
 

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Since she's a Christian, you could point her to <a href="http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com" target="_blank">www.gentlechristianmothers.com</a> and the articles there.
 

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Thank you, I appreciate that! I didn't know such a website would exist for Christians. I will send her the link. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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The child(ren) will NOT get confused with a different parenting style coming from you and your DH. It's a grandparenting style, after all. And grandparents have different relationships with their grandchildren, and that's ok.<br><br>
Keep up the good efforts and being a good role model for your daughter and her husband!
 

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Tread lightly. My dh's grandmother is the kind of grandmother who thinks kids should just do whatever they want and have whatever they want. Many times she undermines me in front of them. I often leave their house annoyed and much less than supported and I'm hardly an ogre when it comes to parenting.<br><br>
To you, it may seem like no big deal that he play in the box with the styrofoam, but to her, who has to clean it all up later, it might be a very big deal. I've cleaned up lots of styrofoam and know it's a pain in the butt. Sometimes I just don't have time for it and even if I do, I may not want to deal with it that day. I know that's just one example. Many things seem like no big deal to the grandparent, but to the parent, who is trying to have some consistent order in the house, they might be.<br><br>
And, I don't know that you do this, but please don't ever undermine her or disagree with her in front of your grandkids. Nothing makes a tantrum worse than the grandmother standing there saying "just let him play in the styrofoam" after the mom has already said no. I've been there too many times to count. It sucks.
 

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I think all you can do is be a good grandparent. You can hand her resources, send her links, buy her books until you go broke, but in the end, she's going to do what she thinks is best. You may not agree with her, and may have just cause, but she's the mom. It sucks to have to watch that, but other then being gentle in your advice when she asks for it, I'm not sure what else you could do.
 

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While it is one thing to openly disagree with a choice about not letting him play with styrofoam of whatever, I do think that speaking up against spanking or any abuse is different. Even if it doesn't stop them from doing it, your grandchildren will hear another adult say that it isn't right and they don't deserve it. That can be a powerful thing.
 

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If they actually use the literal reference to "spare the rod, spoil the child", please remind them of the actual meaning:<br><br>
The shepherd uses the rod to GUIDE and PROTECT the sheep. The shepherd would never, ever physically hurt the sheep. The rod simply redirects. It is not used in a striking manner. The sheep bumps into it and thus goes the other way. It sets limits. It does not physically harm, nor instill fear. To the contrary, it builds feelings of safety and trust. This is what shepherds (and, hopefully, parents) do--guide those in their care within appropriate limits for their protection and well being.<br><br>
Best wishes to you, your dear daughter, and your dear grandkids.
 

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My advice: lead by example. I'm afraid anything else will come off preachy. I'd really hate it if my mom told me everything I was doing wrong in mothering (which I'm sure she has opinions on).<br><br>
I've learned alot just by watching my MIL with my son. She can redirect, gently correct and really show amazing love to my son. He's not always on his best behavior, but her reaction to him is amazing. The best thing about her: even when she's with me, and I know I've overreacted to my son's behavior, she is very sympathetic to me, never critical. Try applying some gentleness to your interactions with your daughter. Gentleness breeds more gentleness. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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My mom lives with us. I know she doesn't always like some of my parenting. (I also have a 4 year old DS, who is my mom's 'favorite' in some ways because back when he was the only one, she cared for him all day 4 days a week while I worked.)<br><br>
My input: Don't undermine her IN FRONT OF her child. Don't run into the child's room and start comforting him when she has chosen to send him there for misbehavior. Nothing upsets me more than when my mother does these kinds of things.<br><br>
HOWEVER: feel free to talk to your DD (if she's open to listening anyway) while your grandson's in his room. (This is what I WISH my mom would do, even if we argued a bit over my "unfairness" or whatever, I'd rather she talk to me and possibly get me to think about how I'm reacting, allow me to determine the next step, rather than jumping in and basically--in my mind--telling DS he doesn't have to listen to me.)<br><br>
In a situation like the styrofoam box---*I* would be likely to say the same thing in my house, depends on the day. If my mom were to respond to my concern about the mess by offering to clean it up for me, I'd most likely give in and let my kid play in the box. (just be prepared to follow through on this one! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> ) I understand where she's coming from with the mess she will have to clean up later, that factors into a lot of my decisions on what to let the kids do--given that "later" I could be putting everyone to bed, nursing the baby, making dinner....<br><br>
Help is always appreciated. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
and if my mom gave me a link to a website, I'd probably at least take the time to look at it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> so I say give her the gentle christian moms site.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>emmalizz</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13752077"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Not what you want to hear probably, but my advice? Mind your own business and lead by example. Preaching, sending links, etc. will just upset her and could ruin your relationship in the long run. These are your grandkids, not your children. Her responsibility, not yours.</div>
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Her daughter asked for advice.<br><br>
From the first post: "My dd comes to me asking what to do with her ds, she is frustrated with him every day."
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Twocoolboys</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13748061"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Tread lightly. My dh's grandmother is the kind of grandmother who thinks kids should just do whatever they want and have whatever they want. Many times she undermines me in front of them. I often leave their house annoyed and much less than supported and I'm hardly an ogre when it comes to parenting.<br><br>
To you, it may seem like no big deal that he play in the box with the styrofoam, but to her, who has to clean it all up later, it might be a very big deal. I've cleaned up lots of styrofoam and know it's a pain in the butt. Sometimes I just don't have time for it and even if I do, I may not want to deal with it that day. I know that's just one example. Many things seem like no big deal to the grandparent, but to the parent, who is trying to have some consistent order in the house, they might be.<br><br>
And, I don't know that you do this, but please don't ever undermine her or disagree with her in front of your grandkids. Nothing makes a tantrum worse than the grandmother standing there saying "just let him play in the styrofoam" after the mom has already said no. I've been there too many times to count. It sucks.</div>
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I definitely agree with you and just to be clear, I don't undermine my daughter in front of her son. My mother did that to me and would also give me unasked for advice which I didn't appreciate so I am very careful not to do the same to my daughter. It might be tempting to some because a grandparent comes from the viewpoint of "experience" and having been there already but I've raised my child and now it's her turn to raise her own children. When she asks my advice I give her suggestions to think about. I don't want to give her the impression that my way is the only alternative and that if she doesn't take my suggestions then she's wrong.<br><br>
I've just been surprised at their discipline methods since they've been active in their church because they used to be more gentle with him.<br><br>
I didn't go into his room while he was in there. And I don't preach to my daughter or send links without her permission. She comes to me and asks for my opinion. I guess also what I'm wondering about is what to tell her when she asks me what to do about his anger and screaming. She tries to be authoritarian but that often doesn't work with little ones. She thinks he needs to listen to her more, do more to be helpful but isn't that a bit much at times for a 3 or 4 year old? You have to tell them sometimes several times to do something and even after that they don't always.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sweetjasmine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13753778"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">She tries to be authoritarian but that often doesn't work with little ones. She thinks he needs to listen to her more, do more to be helpful but isn't that a bit much at times for a 3 or 4 year old? You have to tell them sometimes several times to do something and even after that they don't always.</div>
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Yes, I think you're right about that!<br><br>
I can completely sympathise with you - everybody has heard that it's hard to be a mother, but you never hear how difficult it is to be a grandmother! Like you I find those situations where I disagree with my daughter's approach extremely difficult. It's really hard to see your grandchild upset and not be allowed to give comfort when you feel that he or she has been treated unfairly! And it's also difficult to know where the limits are when asked for advice.<br><br>
I think it's important that she doesn't get the impression that you're sitting on your high horse judging her, and that she understands that you understand (and remember) that raising a four-year-old is very challenging at times. But you actually do have a lot of experience and can be a good help for her, if it is possible for you to communicate your advice in a way that doesn't make your daughter feel disrespected! I have found that talking about things that I myself have done, that I consider mistakes in my parenting, can be a good opening for a general discussion - and that my daughter very often comes round and finds that she agrees with me, as long as she doesn't feel pressured. I don't know if this makes any sense to you?<br><br>
I think the part of your post that I quoted is very typical of a mother/grandmother disagreement. Parents (of today?) often believe in the existence of some "method" to get the children to listen and do as they are told, and also that consistency is really important, otherwise everything becomes a complete mess. While grandparents, who have seen their children grow up, know that things take time and that they turn out fine in their own time. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent">
 

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rabbitmum, good post! I don't want to give anyone here the impression that I've been judging my daughter. I am so bent on NOT doing that and NOT giving her unsolicited advice the way my parents did with me. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: And the thing is, dd does come to me for advice and suggestions and she knows she can either take it or leave it and that's okay. Still, it's hard to see the little one get so angry and frustrated, actually both mother and son do with each other. I'm just at a loss anymore as to what to say to her because she admits she has little patience with her ds.<br><br>
If anyone has any gentle discipline suggestions, it might be helpful. Well, hopefully it will get easier for dd and she will develop the patience she would like to have.
 

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Several people responded that children are the mothers responsibility and that grandmothers should be careful what they say - they don't have any authority. When a baby is born, only one half it's genes are from the mother. One half from the father. One forth from each grandmother. So, who controls what happens to the baby.<br><br>
White women in the US typically have little or no experience with babies and yet are then they are left in isolation to care for their own babies with total control. They are told it doesn't matter if they have a C-section or vaginal birth, breastfeed or feed artificially modified cow's milk, ..., all choices are equal.<br><br>
Grandmothers, mind your own buisness - I think not. Always advocate for your grandchild in whatever way you can. If your grandchild is unlucky enough to have mothers that think you should MYOB then do the best you can for your grandchild. It can make a huge difference in their lives.
 

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I think it's great that you are in favor of a gentle approach- I'd guess that mostly you'd find the reverse. Anyway, what about modeling the gentle approach for your daughter, maybe when you're over, anticipate what might cause trouble and redirect, distract your grandson. Is there something different in your dd's life causing her to be more stressed put and less patient? Maybe she's getting/feeling some pressure from a new friend at church who isn't gentle with her kids? Maybe you could offer to keep your grandson so she could have a little break, maybe you could take just her out for lunch and a nice talk- maybe she just needs a break. Maybe she's getting pressure from her dh to get more compliance? Maybe you could share with her why you decided to stop spanking and how you didn't think it worked. You could say that you've noticed she's been a little less patient lately and us there anything you can do to help- you might get a lot of info that way. Ask her how she'd like for you to share advice/concerns with her. Or maybe suggest that you two read a gentle discipline book together and talk about it together. Maybe she could even join here and ask us for advice.<br><br>
Unconditional Parenting is a great book to get some insight on why punishment and time out doesn't work and to focus on what the long term goals of parenting rightly are. It might be a bit much for her right now, but you'd probably get a lot out of it.<br><br>
Good luck, I'm sure it's tough to see your grandson treated in a way that seems overly harsh. Also maybe a book about developmental capabilities could help- perhaps she's expecting too much of him. You could share stories of when she was that age and what she could/couldn't do and how you responded, if it worked and what you would do differently if you could.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelandmisha</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13762735"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Is there something different in your dd's life causing her to be more stressed put and less patient?</div>
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i'm gonna take a wild guess and say probably the fact that she now also has a 2 month old.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>phathui5</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13742619"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Since she's a Christian, you could point her to <a href="http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com" target="_blank">www.gentlechristianmothers.com</a> and the articles there.</div>
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This is a great site. Thanks
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">One forth from each grandmother. So, who controls what happens to the baby.</td>
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Not the grandmother, unless the parents are out of the picture. I would be irate if my parents and ILs thought they had any kind of entitlement to my child or that I had any obligation to give them a vote in how we parent. My parents are all about spanking, fast food, sit down and watch tv and don't bother me, kid. My ILs sure do a lot of yelling. Should they each get (according to you) a 25% vote in our decision making? I don't mean to be harsh, but grandparents have no place in parenting unless they're invited in.<br><br>
I hav asked for advice, but I've also told them we are not parenting by committee.
 
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