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Well here I am looking for a new profession. Well actually I am starting massage school next month and I am also thinking about becomming a doula to complement each other. So what do all of you recomend. alace is what my midwife said she liked better than dona, as dona is pretty medicalized. Also I have seen that Raven is studing under childbirth international. Please let me know your thoughts about both or all three. After my awsome birth I want to share that with other families all the time.


darkstar
 

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I think that all the programs have thier pros and cons. I searched through them all a few years ago to make my decision... I settled on CAPPA. It didn't have any major negatives about it and the trainings were close to home and I felt that thier reading list was good-not too long and not too short. I also like that they offer trainings in a variety of birth related fields as well like CBE and lactation etc.... they also have a new teen program I'm interested in!
 

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I did ALACE, because DONA doesn't want you doing VEs or palpation, and I already do them, as a homebirth doula, and even for hospital clients(but for them I don't do VEs.) I usually go with how the lady is dealing with the surges. If she is very calm, we don't need to go anyhwere. So far only two clients have had thier babies in the car, and each was thrilled how fast the labor was! Next time both will birth at home!
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cathicog
I did ALACE, because DONA doesn't want you doing VEs or palpation, and I already do them, as a homebirth doula, and even for hospital clients(but for them I don't do VEs.)
What are VE's or palpatations?

Wondering what they are and how they effect birth.

Thanks
 

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Actually, ALACE is more medicalized than DONA. ALACE doulas are trained to do vaginal exams, etc... and DONA doulas are not.

I guess it depends on what you feel comfortable with. Do you want to be able to offer your clients vaginal exams so they know where they are before they go to the hospital/birth center? Or do you just want to be there to offer emotional and physical comfort and information on procedures?
 

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Birthworks also has training I think. Haven't seen that mentioned.

I am doing CAPPA postpartum doula training currently, via their distance program, which is great for me, since I don't live near ANY trainings. CAPPA's flexible distance options are wonderful for someone like me up here in the boonies. I appreciate that option. They have advanced levels of training and such a variety of areas of training that it helps you to diversify your work and learning. Very thorough too.

I have attended a DONA labor doula training as well. I went because Penny Simkin was teaching it and oddly, it was near enough by that I could go...everything fell into place for me, so I did it. But that was not about preferring DONA, it was about wanting to learn from Penny Simkin.

I have to agree that each organization has its' advantages and disadvantages, and I, personally, need alot of flexibility. CAPPA's folks have been very generous with their time and are very accommodating about my learning needs in particular. I can only speak for my ongoing experience regarding CAPPA.

I think each person finds the training they need, that works for them and that's how it's supposed to be rather than seeing it in terms of good, better and best or the hard sell for a name.

The programs ALL continue to develop and grow and change to meet as many folks' training and learning needs as possible and this happens over time. That is one thing I will say about each and every one of the programs I have looked into.

We really need more doulas of all kinds- antepartum, labor and postpartum- no matter what. Every woman should be able to find the doula that clicks with her and can best meet her needs, should she want one.

The trick about finding training that fits well for you, is to explore for yourself- no one can do more than come from their own experience, but that is theirs, not your. See what your goals are, see what program appeals to you and also which one meets your needs as a learner. I recommend contacting the program folks by phone and talking to a human being about your concerns and needs for yourself and your own success. Money is also another important factor.

Believe me. I have explored alot of training organizations over the years waiting and watching for what would work for me.

So just explore, don't be afraid to write stuff down about the programs as you search and explore.

Above all, ENJOY the exploration!...
Joyce in the mts.
 

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I took DONA training and really liked it--it is true that they don't conceptualize a doula having any medical responsibilities, but I am okay with that. Even if you chose not to get DONA certification I think the training is good. If I had the opportunity I would also like to do the Birthing From Within training:

www.birthingfromwithin.com/doula.html

I agree that being a LMT and a doula is a great combo! A couple women I did doula training with happened to be reiki practitioners, which I think is good too.
 

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If I had it to do over again I'd go w/ ALACE for lots of reasons. I'm a DONA-trained doula and an ALACE CBE. I also have CAPPA credentials. Last year I took the Level I BFW workshop and after that I have no intentions of completing my certification. I've also taken an ICEA doula training. The two organizations I now most reccommend are CAPPA and ALACE. Mostly for their philosophies and positions on certain issues. Also, their support of doulas and CBEs going through the process is great. It took me nearly 3 years to work though the modules for ALACE but they were so patient with me. Having just gone through an ICEA recert. workshop I can honestly say that I was jipped when I went through DONA training.

If you have any intentions of pursuing midwifery in the future...I say go w/ ALACE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well I registered for massage school on friday!! I feel like I am getting something done finally.

I have done alot of looking and altough I havent looked at birthing from within, I like CAPPA and ALACE, although ALACE seems kind of medical to me. Anyone have any thoughts about that.

I just traded for a doulas make a difference stamp on the TP, so I guess I am one step further



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Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstar
I like CAPPA and ALACE, although ALACE seems kind of medical to me. Anyone have any thoughts about that.
Not sure exactly what you mean by medical. The ALACE program includes descriptions of procedures and such but, IMO, you need to know that kind of stuff to be an effective doula. I honestly think the lack of medical terminology used in DONA's trainings is a real disadvantage of their program. I understand about DONA not wanting to confuse the doula w/ a medical professional but I've seen DONA-trained doulas who could not even explain to a mom why a nurse was going to start an IV and administer Pitocin and the risks and benefits involved in doing so


Also, keep in mind ALACE was originally Informed Homebirth/Informed Birth and Parenting so its roots are in homebirth.

CAPPA and ALACE just seem to be more holistic in their approach, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ALACE's training course teaches how to do vaginal exams, to chech cervix's. I havent seen that in other training courses. I am not opposed to that, although I havent had a vag exam during pregnancy. Still not sure. I will keep learning


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Quote:

Originally Posted by birthdancedoula
Not sure exactly what you mean by medical. The ALACE program includes descriptions of procedures and such but, IMO, you need to know that kind of stuff to be an effective doula. I honestly think the lack of medical terminology used in DONA's trainings is a real disadvantage of their program. I understand about DONA not wanting to confuse the doula w/ a medical professional but I've seen DONA-trained doulas who could not even explain to a mom why a nurse was going to start an IV and administer Pitocin and the risks and benefits involved in doing so


Also, keep in mind ALACE was originally Informed Homebirth/Informed Birth and Parenting so its roots are in homebirth.

CAPPA and ALACE just seem to be more holistic in their approach, IMO.
I had DONA training last summer and the above-mentioned type of information was included. DONA says the doula doesn't perform medical procedures herself, but giving info about them if the clinet wants that is part of what a doula does. Also, Henci Goer's The Thinking Woman's Guide to Birth is on their reading list (at least it was). One thing about DONA training is you are expected to do some work (attend a series of childbrith classes not as a pregnant person) and do some reading before the training, so I think common procedures and tests used during normal birth, and their risks and benefits, are not discussed with as great a deatail as if it was the case that the participants knew nothing about them. Here is a sample of DONA course content:
http://www.doulaworkshop.com/courses.htm
 

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I also wanted to add that it totally depends on who the instructor is. My first instructor didn't delve into any of the typical procedures. My recertifying instructor was way more thorough, though. She stressed how important it is to be familiar with stuff you will be confronted w/ in the hospital...one of the reasons ICEA lists a maternal-child nursing text as required reading.

I guess one of the reasons I was confused about ALACE being "medical" was b/c I consider stuff like IVs and medications to be medical. Depending on the client, dilation checks come w/ the territory of midwifery. I feel it is good to know those things, particularly if midwifery is in your future, but if you did them in practice you'd be more of a montrice, not simply a doula. Not sure if ALACE makes that distinction in their doula training or not.
 

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I'm reading a few things on this thread that have me quite alarmed...

Quote:
I did ALACE, because DONA doesn't want you doing VEs or palpation, and I already do them, as a homebirth doula, and even for hospital clients(but for them I don't do VEs.)
There is no doula program out there that endorses a doula doing a vaginal exam. Doulas should not be doing vaginal exams. If you are a midwife acting in the capacity of a doula, you should not do a vaginal exam. If you are an L&D nurse acting as a doula- you do not do the vaginal exam!

Doulas get kicked out of hospitals for behavior like this! There is a hospital in San Francisco that BANNED doulas because a nurse walked in on a doula performing a vaginal exam! I realize you're not doing them at the hospital but if you have a home birth client who needs to transfer before the midwife gets there and the hospital finds out you've done a vaginal exam....


Doulas DO NOT perform vaginal exams whether they are in the hospital or at home! I can not emphasize enough how DANGEROUS this is for our profession- if you are caught performing vaginal exams, there are huge repercussions for the other doulas practicing in your area! Please, please- if you are a trained professional who can do this, make sure that you are NOT calling yourself a doula. A monitrice is a doula who is essentially trained in some clinical aspects like vaginal exams, heart tones, etc but can not do anything diagnostic - maybe that is more up your alley? If you are skilled at these things then market your skills! But please- do not call yourself a doula and do clinical things. I realize how strongly worded this is and it is not in any way intended to attack but I am alarmed after reading this!

I am a midwife assistant and I would never do heart tones, vitals, etc for a doula client- NO WAY.

Quote:
Actually, ALACE is more medicalized than DONA. ALACE doulas are trained to do vaginal exams, etc... and DONA doulas are not.
This is not exactly true. ALACE training involves doing a vaginal exam/having one done on you by the class participants if you wish. This is for experience, and not training. You are NOT trained to perform vaginal exams in an ALACE training- the purpose behind this is to expose women to what it is like to perform a vaginal exam, see what another woman's vagina is like, etc.- but does NOT prepare you in ANY way to diagnose dilation, effacement, station, etc. They do not endorse that their doulas run out and do vaginal exams on clients- rather it is explained very clearly to the participants that this is for experience only. ALACE began as a precursor to midwifery training- doulas who intend to be midwives usually perfer the ALACE training because they are exposed to some things that the other programs don't. However- the scope of practice does NOT include allowing doulas to perform clinical skills (for which they are not even trained properly)!

This is from the ALACE site, please note the wording (emphasis mine):

Quote:
You will also receive an introduction to the following skills:

* Maternal vital signs during pregnancy and birth
* Palpation of fetal position and presentation
* Auscultation of fetal heart tones by fetoscope
* Sterile technique
* Understanding common tests and techniques
* Basic pelvic examination
Each organization has their own focus and you have to decide which is the one for you. One of the big things people liked about CAPPA was the wide range of skills you can learn from one organization. Others like DONA because it is the most well established, oldest and widely known organization out there. Everyone has their reasons for choosing one org over another, but not one of these doula organizations endorses doulas performing clinical skills. The very definition of a doula is that we are non-medical providers.

I highly suggest figuring out what YOUR values are about being a doula.
  • What are your long term goals? Do you want to also do childbirth education? Lactation? Midwifery?
  • Who has trainings nearby, and if the org you like doesn't, will they send a trainer if you host a training?
  • Do they offer distance learning?
  • What can you afford?
  • Talk to people who have chosen each organization and listen to their experience. Does the organization return calls in a timely manner? Are they professional? Are there additional learning opportunities? Etc.
Also, you don't have to go with one of the 'big three', you can choose Birthworks, Birthing From Within, BirthLove, and there may be local doula organizations who can also provide trainings as well. Don't limit yourself to just CAPPA, DONA and ALACE.

For me personally, I was trained as a DONA doula but intend on attending an ALACE training just for the range of experience. Also, I am a midwife's assistant. I had professional issues with CAPPA but still believe they have a good program- I just had some other conflicts that left a bad taste in my mouth. I intend on certifying with Birthing From Within, because I believe in the philosophy and I find their certification process challenging.

I also encourage all doulas to network with other doulas in your community. We have created a website to help unify the folks in our community who are providing services to pregnant and birthing women, and new families. We just needed to find someone who'd host for free and someone who could build it- and it's growing daily. We also meet monthly to get to know each other, offer support, share experiences and just build our community. Now when I am contacted by a client I can't take, I have a few names of people I trust will provide her excellent care to refer her to, versus having to just hand her a list with no clue how anyone practices. If you can network, you can find out who is choosing what path and why- and use that information to help make your decision.

Best of luck to everyone!
 

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Hi,

I'm new to this board but thought I'd chime in!


I sponsored the ALACE labor assistant (doula) training in Tacoma, WA this past January and it was fantastic! The workshop itself was incredibly informative and comprehensive. Nancy Draznin was the instructor, and she is a lay midwife as well as a doula so she really gave a great scope of the doula's role.

The certification program is also comprehensive and well thought out. ALACE requires you to attend 6 births and read some really interesting books, Like Heart & Hands, and Birth as an American Rite of Passage, not just the standard (and sometimes rather dry) texts. The self-study program compels you to want to learn and keeps you engaged. The test is challenging, but rewarding because you can really express what you've learned (it's an open book test that you send in with your final packet.)

I've been really happy with this program and what I've learned. The main reason I chose ALACE was because of the opportunity to sponsor the workshop in exchange for the fee of the certification program being waived (I would highly recommend sponsoring as well - you really get to know and connect with your area resources. It was a lot of work but worth it.) DONA is based in Seattle so there are very few ALACE doulas here (if any!) besides me. Can't say much about any of the other programs, but if you want a program that follows the midwifery model of care, promotes holistic health and woman-centered care, then ALACE is a great choice.

One thing I want to clarify - ALACE does NOT promote or teach labor assistants how to perform vaginal exams on their clients. We performed them on each other at the workshop (on a completely voluntary basis - no one was ever pressured to participate) to get a better understanding of the pelvis, vagina and cervix. If you do them in your practice, it is completely at your own risk (we even signed a letter!) Same goes for palpations.

Hope this helps. BTW, I am a Birthing From Within Mentor if you want more information on the program at all, I'd be happy to share. BFW completely changed my views on teaching (am in ICEA CBE program as well), doula-ing and my own birth experience. Would highly recommend the Level 1 workshop for doulas & CBEs alike.

Sarah
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelia430
Actually, ALACE is more medicalized than DONA. ALACE doulas are trained to do vaginal exams, etc... and DONA doulas are not.
Actually, ALACE doulas are NOT trained to do vaginal exams or anything else. I have attended two ALACE workshops with two different instructors and neither time was I trained to do anything clinical. Each labor assistant is offered the opportunity to do a vaginal exam on another participant to get a feel for what the inside of a vagina feels like, where a cervix might be found, what/where the ischial spines of the pelvis are, what a pubic arch feels like. No one is taught how to determine dilation or effacement. This experience is very helpful in describing these landmarks to our clients.

We have pregnant women come to one day of the workshop so we can experience Leopold's Manuevers-- something I think is very helpful in recommending OFP exercises to women. We also find out how close we are in correctly determing position by listening to the baby's heart with a fetoscope, which is just a treat for mom and labor assistant in training.

After a weekend of this sort of introduction, labor assistants are encouraged to go out and get more training on specific skills should they plan to introduce them into their care packages. ALACE does not determine a labor assistant's scope of practice, but strongly recommends they are trained for these skills as *training* was not provided in the workshop.

Kris
Home birth intern-midwife
ALACE certified labor assistant
 
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