[elanorh]

I'm wondering about something (and probably folks here are as confused as I am about it) - but wanted to see what people think when they run into this situation:

On a different board I frequent, a mom is trying to wean her baby (good little bfer that she is, baby is resisting and refusing bottles

) .... mom has to return to work and isn't going to be able to pump at work, so is weaning.

I mentioned that she could ff while at work, and bf while at home, and that way she and baby would still receive some of the benefits of bfing (and not as much of the ff costs!) .... but mom is not interested. It's either 100% bf or 100% ff, she doesn't want to do both (although, actually, it'd be the dcp who was doing the ffing in the end, not mom, so all mom would do is buy formula and bf while at home with baby)....???

I've run into this before, and often assumed that moms just didn't know that bf while at home and ff while at work was even an option. But once a mom knows that's an option --- why do some still want to go to straight ff instead of a bf/ff combo? I think most of the moms making these decisions are at 4-6 weeks pp, so maybe they're not at the "Wow, this bf thing is really workable and I'm enjoying the connection with my child" state of mind yet? So they see it as "lose the frustration/irritation of bf a newborn, and this will make WOH easier if I ff even at home?" I know it's hard to WOH (I did it Ina's first year) -- and time is at a premium when you get home from work, in terms of needing to cook/clean/reconnect with dh/dk etc. etc..... But bf IME made it easier, not more difficult, to do that reconnection.

I guess there's a part of me which thinks that bf 'til the work return, then straight ff afterwards, is a way for a mom to perhaps try to appease both sides of the argument (bf/ff). "Well, I bf while I was at home, but once I returned to work, I had to ff." That way the ff pushers in her world are happy, and the lactivists in her world are happier than if she just ff'd from the beginning, and if she's conflicted, she's appeased a bit of "both" in the end too.... And of course, she may have been told that all the benefits happen in the first 6 weeks anyway, it seems a common enough statement.

It's just frustrating to me because I think bf's benefits are enough that I don't understand the "either/or" dichotomy. Sure, 100% bm is best. But if it's not workable due to supply issues, or workplace issues, or etc. --- surely, 50/50 or even 20/70 is better than no bm at all??

 

[wendy1221]

Yes, I've run into this as well. My sister's SIL (does that make her my SIL?) went back to work when her baby was 6 weeks old. Now, this woman did NOT want to bf at all. She thought it was "disgusting." But she felt guilted into it b/c her sister had wanted to bf so badly and wasn't able to b/c of a pituitary tumor. So she weaned her babe completely to formula at 6 weeks even though my sister passed on my idea of ff while away and bf at night. She truly regrets it now. She said she misses bf and wishes she'd done it longer. She ended up loving bf! (and ironically, she has turned out to be very AP, and her sister very mainstream. I would have predicted the opposite from their attitudes before having kids!)

I don't know why people seem to feel that it has to be all or nothing.I would rather babies got some bf than go to all formula. I get a little upset when moms start the formula too early, like before 6 weeks (although I personally feel that it should be treated as a solid--unless you truly NEED to supplement--as in no formula until the baby has started solids. THen their guts are more ready to handle this foreign substance.) Maybe letting moms know that giving formula during the day and bf at night is a good option to switching to ff completely. I think we lactivists push too hard towards exclusive bf and it makes people feel like it IS all or nothing. Yes, it would be great if everyone could ebf, but how about letting those women who feel they CAN'T know that it is doable to do both?

 

[accountclosed3]

most people in our culture are taught to think only in absolutes. strange how it manifests.

 

[lalaland42]

At the risk of being declared the worst mom ever, I have to admit I ff while at work for a few months. At 10 weeks, DD was exclusively bf and I was guilted into going back to work. My boss (a woman who stuck her 2 kids with a nanny at 2 weeks) heavily guilted me into going back to work. I told her I could not go back full time but I would work 4 hours a day (DH stayed home with DD). I started driving to work (before I took the bus) so I could run out of the office, to the parking garage and drive home as fast as possible. In total, I was gone 5 hours a day. I fed DD immediately before leaving for work and immediately after returning from work but she still needed at least one small bottle a day.

I tried pumping, honestly I did. It took forever to get enough milk for the next day so I found that I was either feeding DD, eating so I had the energy to feed/pump or pumping. I was so stressed and tired from the schedule that I fell apart. I couldn't pump at work because the only place I could do it was in the bathroom and besides being gross, there wasn't any place to sit other then the toilet. I called my ped and she said to use powdered goat's milk because it is the most like bm, so I did. And I am not sorry about it. As soon as I added the one bottle of formula a day, I was able to pull myself together and my relationship with DD and DH improved. Not too long later I quit my job which I am also not sorry about. DD loves bf and we don't show signs of stopping anytime soon.

 

[accountclosed3]

i don't think there's anything wrong with doing both--if one feels that they must. better some BF than no BF, imo.

sorry about your boss!

 

[elanorh]

Quote:

At the risk of being declared the worst mom ever

That's just it - you chose to combine feeding methods (ff and bf, or in your case, goat's milk and bf) -- rather than simply weaning at what point you returned to work. And it seems to me that if it's possible to provide any breastmilk - even if it's a small % of what baby takes in - that's certainly better than 100% ff. So that's great! Not bad. And it just seems like there are a lot of moms who go the, "Well, I have to go back to work, therefore I must wean," route - as if they'll be at work 24/7 and never return home to be with their child(ren) and partner again, KWIM? I don't know why so many go the "For me, it'll be either 100% bf, or it's 100% ff" route.

I don't think that many women have good choices in re: returning to work/pumping at work. There isn't that much support for moms who want to pump, for one thing; many jobs pretty much preclude it (especially lower-wage jobs, say - waitressing or clerking at a store; if it's busy, you're not breaking 'til the rush is over, KWIM?) .... and at other jobs, even if there is some support, it's not that hot ("Sure, you can pump - *in the bathroom!*" ... or, "You'll need to work extra to make up for your pumping time," [even though your pumping time could be your "breaks" for the day], or "I don't want that breastmilk in the fridge next to my pastrami on rye!" or etc.) ..... I think there's a reason that only 10% of WOH mothers are still bf at 6 months.

And it's not like many of them have a choice in re: their job situations (or feel that they have a choice, which is the same thing in the end). I know I didn't - Ina was on my insurance, and her medical condition wouldn't have been covered if I quit work. So there I was, working! And not able to switch jobs, either. Fortunately, mine was supportive of pumping (other than that it happened in a hot storeroom whose door didn't lock).

That said ... it seems to me that the choice to bf while at home, and ff while at work would at least prolong nursing, and still provide some of the benefits of bf. I know that with mothers whose supply wasn't well established before returning to work, it would likely end up meaning an "earlier" end of nursing than the ideal - but it'd be better than the alternative. Wean at 6 weeks, or partially wean at 6 weeks and bf 'til 10 months while supplementing?

If I can't eat the whole cake at one sitting, how 'bout eating one piece a day for several days instead of just eating a piece and throwing the rest of the cake away?? Sure, the cake might get stale before I'm done so I may not get it finished anyway, but I'd certainly get to eat more than if I threw the remainders out the first day. Maybe it's a bad analogy ....

 

[nonconformnmom]

I apologize for being a bit off-topic here, but this is something I've been thinking about for a while. It seems that, with breastfeeding, there is a hierarchy. You have sort of the 'gold standard' which would arguably be exclusively breastfeeding for 12 months; and then you have the 'silver standard' which might be, for example, exclusively breastfeeding for a minimum of 6 months, then adding solids, but still breastfeeding and doing child-led weaning, to mother-led weaing, all the way down to 6 months of breastfeeding or less and that's it. (Please note this is NOT meant to say that is how I think it should be, or to disparage anyone who breastfeeds no matter how long).

Whereas, for those who formula-feed; it's "formula feeding" and that's it. No hierarchy to fit into, no 'gold standard' by which to measure oneself and feel a failure ... Does this make sense to anyone? Besides me?

There is just so much pressure on breastfeeding moms. Sometimes I think FF moms have it so easy because they don't have to figure out what 'level' of FF to do; it really is all or nothing. Sigh ....

 

[siobhang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom You have sort of the 'gold standard' which would arguably be exclusively breastfeeding for 12 months; and then you have the 'silver standard' which might be, for example, exclusively breastfeeding for a minimum of 6 months, then adding solids,

Question for you - who is actually promoting exclusively breastfeeding for 12 months? I have never read or heard any scientifically based citations that support ebf for 12 months. Six months, yes, absolutely, that is the WHO standard and AAP recommendations, and then supplemental feeding (meaning adding foods, not with formula) afterwards. But 12 months?

Siobhan

 

[nonconformnmom]

Quote:

Question for you - who is actually promoting exclusively breastfeeding for 12 months? I have never read or heard any scientifically based citations that support ebf for 12 months. Six months, yes, absolutely, that is the WHO standard and AAP recommendations, and then supplemental feeding (meaning adding foods, not with formula) afterwards. But 12 months?

I totally pulled that out of my rear end.

Please don't take any of those 'standards' that I wrote literally - I definitely don't want anyone to completely misunderstand my purpose in posting this.

Nobody (that I know of) is actually "promoting" these standards outright. I simply gave fictitious examples. But I do think there are complicit levels or achievements that maybe are just kept internal. Maybe I'm the only one who does this .... I'm not pushing standards on anyone, I'm just trying to understand why [i\I]I[/I] have felt that there are.

 

[siobhang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom I totally pulled that out of my rear end. Please don't take any of those 'standards' that I wrote literally - I definitely don't want anyone to completely misunderstand my purpose in posting this.

oh, okay, thanks for clarifying. I was more confused than anything else.

Quote:

But I do think there are complicit levels or achievements that maybe are just kept internal.

I think you are absolutely right. I think there is an implicit belief at MDC that unless a mom has ebf for 6 months (with some kudos for going longer) - and no formula touched the baby's lips during that period - and she nursed her baby for at least 2 plus years, then she didn't do it "right". I hear that from moms who apologize for not living up to these standards.

What bothers me about these assumptions is that it does set up an all or nothing approach - IF you are not going to nurse for a minimum of 2 years, then it doesn't "count" as good enough - which I can see for many moms feels overwhelming during the early, nurse every hour for hours weeks.

I personally prefer using the WHO standards as guidelines, but not measurements, ya know? Every ounce of breastmilk is valuable.

I HATE it when I hear a woman say "I couldn't breastfeed - I was only able to do it for 1 month." I actually would rather hear her say "I breastfed my baby for one month, but I had to stop before I wanted to." Because she DID breastfeed and she should be applauded for trying and congratulated for what she was able to do.

I personally think taking a positive approach makes her more likely to a. be positive about her breastfeeding experience (which means she won't necessarily tell other women it is "too hard" and b. try to nurse for longer next time if there is one.

My 2 cents.

Siobhan

 

[2Sweeties1Angel]

I BF and supplemental FF while I was at work. It doesn't work out so well after awhile because your supply starts to drop and you can have trouble BF at all. I guess if you can get your baby to completely reverse cycle it might work out just fine, but mine refused to nurse at night.

 

[nonconformnmom]

I worked full time and breastfed both of my kids, now 3.5 yo and 20 months old (still nursing strong!

) With each of them, I returned to work at 6 weeks pp,and pumped while at work. At 6 months and 8 months respectively, I stopped pumping at work and began supplementing with formula while I was at work. I was able to breastfeed at all other times without problems. I breastfed the first until 14 months; and the second one, as I said, is still going strong at 20 months.

Supplementing during my work hours did not negatively impact my milk supply or our breastfeeding relationship at all, for both of my kids.

 

[Kavita]

In response to the original post as to why someone would prefer to wean completely than to do part time BF/part time FF:

I am not sure, so I am just going to venture a guess here:

I wonder if some people just feel that breastfeeding is something that "belongs" in the early postpartum period when you are home with the baby and feeding all the time, but that when you get past that time and get back to your "regular life" of work, etc., that breastfeeding doesn't fit in with that? Sort of like those 70's hazy photos of moms in white nightgowns in wooden rocking chairs breastfeeding, maybe they feel that it's something that gets done in private on the "babymoon" but doesn't fit in with the working world?

I'm not saying I advocate that or feel that way myself, but I am just wondering if that could be a factor. It might be just too "bodily" for some people to reconcile with their self image as a working mom.

 

[Aeress]

I don't think many women know enough about breastfeeding in general. I have two children and have learned from each one, more information about breastfeeding.
my second dd, i returned to work at 3 months, after starting out exclusively b'fding, then adding some formula bc stupid ped made me think that zoloft was going to deform my baby, to trying to exc b'fd again, whihc didn't work, to using a sns for 10 months to keep her at the breast, then using only fomrula while away fom momma, and then to just formula bc the sns drove me batty....i tried just about everything....but this was my 2nd, so i had learned so much by being on mothering...that i felt i could try other things.

also, most main stream books are absolutely horrible. so unless you find an alternative book on breastfeeding, you are getting horrible information....

 

[Mokhwar]

Non-conform 'n' Mom and Siobhang

As to the orgional ? ...

I think that they do not know that it is easy. Breastfeeding is easy. Bottlefeeding (once you get the hang of it) is easy. But I think they fear that the baggage of both combined is NOT easy. (i.e. sure cleaning the bottles and preparing tomorrow's formula is easy IF you're not in the middle of a "mommy you're home!" two-hour nurse-a-thon between dinner and bathtime.) KWIM? Also anecdotes about things like nipple confusion don't help. And finally I think "Well, I'm really going to need my sleep now, and if I am nursing all night..." plays a big part.

I of course advocate that it make it as clear as possible to working moms that it is totally doable, easy even, and 100% worth it on the weekends!

 

[Benji'sMom]

I think it's a bunch of things that everybody here has touched on:

Thinking it'll be too much trouble, so I may as well stick to one system;

Not having a CLUE about milk production and how to maintain it, or how to pump, which pump, etc. (This falls under "bad information" that also makes it "seem too hard," because the whole pumping thing can be overwhelming if you don't know where to get info on that);

Also you don't have to worry about "failing" at FFing because even if your child is constipated, puking, allergic, whatever, that's just "normal" for FF;

And just the socialization that BFing belongs with maternity leave, it's not part of "real life."

 

[wonderwahine]

I think some women even after finding out using both is an option....just veiw ff as easier.

 

[accountclosed3]

actually, i don't think there is pressure on BFing moms.

BM is the 'gold standard' food. BF isn't necessary to get this "gold standard" food into a baby. And, exclusive BM isn't necessary either--particularly if the mother finds it difficult to develop a consistant supply. but giving as much "gold standard" food as possible is more beneficial than no 'gold standard' food.