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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted part of this in another thread but think it might get overlooked.<br><br>
DH really wants to start giving 16 mo DD short time outs (she is very strong willed and persistent and repetition is not working lol) actually I think she is really doing great right now for her age without that, but what DO you do instead of time outs at this age?<br><br>
I would prefer not to, and don't plan to, but some of the behavior is to do with going to dangerous things then looking at us to see what we are going to do. We are as childproofed as we can be, except for this, but also trying to teach her some things ARE off limits. She is very aware and understands a lot and definitely knows she is not supposed to go for example behind the sofa where there are a couple of electrical cords she can get to, the outlet is covered but the cord to the light is not, we did have it blocked off and may have to again but on the other hand I feel she has to know thats not ok as it is dangerous. (We unblocked it as we are selling our house and she only goes in that room with us right there).<br><br>
Anyhow what do you do instead of a time out? I need to have some good ideas as what I am doing is not working! Thanks!
 

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All of the child development info I've read has said that while your child may "know" they're not allowed to touch or do something, impulse control isn't usually mastered until around age three or so. Finding this really helped me to relax and realize that she wasn't necessarily defying me but instead just isn't developed enough to control herself.<br><br>
At 2 years, we still use a lot of redirection, try to give her control over as many areas as possible, and try to emphasize empathy and feelings. If she's out of control or approaching the danger zone, I try to remove her from the situation.<br><br>
My beef with timeouts is that I feel they put the focus on what happens to the child instead of on how the child's actions affected someone/thing else. I want her to learn not to hit because it hurts the other person, not because it means a time out. Some people feel that timeouts are a helpful stepping stone to reaxh that understanding but it just doesn't work for our family. My other concern with timeouts is that I feel they are essentially an act of withdrawing love in order to gain compliance. I worry that it would give her the message that if she does x, then I don't want her in my company.<br><br>
Good luck and I hope that you can find something that works for you. There are so many factors to consider (child's temperment, family values, importance of control in yoru life, etc) that it really comes down to trying out what interests you and going from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>brewgirl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My other concern with timeouts is that I feel they are essentially an act of withdrawing love in order to gain compliance. I worry that it would give her the message that if she does x, then I don't want her in my company.</div>
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Thanks and I do agree with what you said, especially this, as thats what my heart says, its just her obsession with the 'danger zone' right now is exhausting! She also saw a "bee" (well it was a fly but she thinks it is a bee lol) in the window and that was so exciting she keeps going back there over and over and over and has to squeeze through between the lamp and a table to get there behind the sofa.<br><br>
Its just so hard to know what to do because I do feel she needs some boundaries but don't want to use a time out to do it and DH is getting impatient with the repetition, and she is DETERMINED! I think we will just block it off for now so it is safe for this particular issue, but I do think GD is hard at this in between age without that impulse control where there is possible danger, for example she does NOT want to hold my hand near the road, and wants to be DOWN DOWN DOWN!<br><br>
Still looking for more ideas!
 

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I think it would benefit you guys a lot to become familiar with what is developmentally appropriate for 16 mo. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Everything you are describing is very normal development. ITA with PP about the lack of impulse control. She may 'know' she shouldn't do it, but think of it from her perspective. She doesn't know why you don't want her to, she doesn't know that 'you not wanting her to' means it's wrong, and she is basically totally unable to stop herself.<br><br>
Redirection/distraction is a very good tool at this age, and for the situation you are describing it is an excellent way to stop the action you dislike while not shaming or hurting her in the process. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
Also, ITA that timeouts are of dubious value, at best, with older children; totally useless and ineffective with a child of her age.<br><br>
Good luck. Please let us know what happens. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I also wanted to add that the repetition is not only normal, but something you should be grateful for (no, really <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> ). Children of this age are designed to do things repetitively, despite the negative consequences. That is how their brains work. How else would they get back up to learn to walk after falling on their butt for the millionth time, KWIM?<br><br>
Basically, even if you gave a time out, or spanked or whatever, it would not stop her from doing it again. Whatever you choose to do, be it time out or redirection, you are going to have to do it a hundred times. So what's more important is the type of dynamic you want to establish with her in the process. Do you want her to think, "mom and dad will make me suffer if I do it wrong," or do you want her to think, "mom and dad are there to help me to learn the right things to do."
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamasadie</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it would benefit you guys a lot to become familiar with what is developmentally appropriate for 16 mo. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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I know and you explained it very well, but YOU try explaining that to DH who has 4 older kids (20, 18, 15 and 12) and thinks he is the new Dr. Spock of baby care! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> (I say that tongue in cheek as he is definitely not Dr. Sears!)<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamasadie</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Redirection/distraction is a very good tool at this age, and for the situation you are describing it is an excellent way to stop the action you dislike while not shaming or hurting her in the process. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"></div>
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That makes perfect sense but she is just very, very focussed and not too distractible but I just need to be more inventive I think! I mean she was asleep nursing on the sofa, and I went to put her in bed, and she was half asleep and started saying Bee, Bee, Bee! Goodness knows what will happen when she sees a real bee lol!
 

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Mamasadie, thanks so much for posting.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Do you want her to think, "mom and dad will make me suffer if I do it wrong," or do you want her to think, "mom and dad are there to help me to learn the right things to do."</td>
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That really spoke to me. I'm going thru the same thing with my ds, repetition and loosing my patience so bad with him <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . I've made so many mistakes in my life, and they were things that "I should have known better" about. I was always asking myself why I didn't believe my parents, about what they said, and how I could prevent this from happening to Zane. You cut right to the heart of it-- I was afraid of them, I didn't trust that they were really on my side. So now, on to making a difference in my son's life!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamasadie</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you want her to think, "mom and dad will make me suffer if I do it wrong," or do you want her to think, "mom and dad are there to help me to learn the right things to do."</div>
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Definitely the latter! I just have to try some GD on DH I think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: and try to get him to understand where I am coming from. He really is a great Dad just comes from a more traditional viewpoint, but has come a long way and supportive of me EBF, Natural Birth, No Vaccs, Holistic Care, Homeschooling when she is old enough, just have to convince him of this one!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Natalya</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Mamasadie, thanks so much for posting.<br><br><br><br>
That really spoke to me. I'm going thru the same thing with my ds, repetition and loosing my patience so bad with him <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . I've made so many mistakes in my life, and they were things that "I should have known better" about. I was always asking myself why I didn't believe my parents, about what they said, and how I could prevent this from happening to Zane. You cut right to the heart of it-- I was afraid of them, I didn't trust that they were really on my side. So now, on to making a difference in my son's life!</div>
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Yes really she put it so well!<br><br>
One thing I HAVE done to help my patience levels and it has really helped me is use flower remedies, like Holly and Impatiens.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Destinye</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Definitely the latter! I just have to try some GD on DH I think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: and try to get him to understand where I am coming from. He really is a great Dad just comes from a more traditional viewpoint, but has come a long way and supportive of me EBF, Natural Birth, No Vaccs, Holistic Care, Homeschooling when she is old enough, just have to convince him of this one!</div>
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I think it's difficult for many people to let go of their desire for "control" over thier children. There is a feeling of saftey when you think you have control. Especially since this is how his other kids were raised, I'm sure it feels intimidating to move out of his comfort zone in parenting. He must worry about how dd will turn out with out using that method. Will she turn out to be one of those bratty out of control kids who doesn't "respect" her parents and try to walk all over him?<br>
They key here is getting him to trust that there is more than one way. That lack of punitive measures can work. It is important for both of you to realize that this method may look different as you're doing it. There is often more work and thought involved, but it is well worth it. You'll end up with child that "does the right thing" becuase she wants to, not out of fear. She'll also have a trust and respect for you both that is genuine, not forced.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Destinye</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I mean she was asleep nursing on the sofa, and I went to put her in bed, and she was half asleep and started saying Bee, Bee, Bee! Goodness knows what will happen when she sees a real bee lol!</div>
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:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL<br><br>
This just made me really LOL and wake ds who was asleep in my lap! Darn, I'm not laughing anymore!<br><br>
You have to admit... that is pretty cute!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmb123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it's difficult for many people to let go of their desire for "control" over thier children. There is a feeling of saftey when you think you have control. Especially since this is how his other kids were raised, I'm sure it feels intimidating to move out of his comfort zone in parenting. He must worry about how dd will turn out with out using that method. Will she turn out to be one of those bratty out of control kids who doesn't "respect" her parents and try to walk all over him?</div>
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I think thats true of DH, and part of the issue is that his EX lets his kids run all over her, and the one kid that lives with her, who is 12, IS seriously out of control. Plus she undermined/undermines everything he has tried to do with his kids. But she is not using GD she is not using anything at all, so I just have to convince DH there is a middle ground here. He does take a lot of time explaining things to his kids though and has a good relationship with all of them. The trouble is too he has had to compromise on everything with DD and I think thats not helping with everything, I did see a mom put her almost 2 yo in time out the other day and it was heartbreaking, the good thing is the DD and another toddler who is a little older went over and tried to comfort him, and she has done that with other babies too, so I think she is already learning empathy.
 

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We tried time-out a few times when DS was about that age but it seemed kind of pointless to me. Something my MIL said kind of cemented for me that I did not want to have a punitive approach to raising DS. She was complaining about how DS would scream/cry when he didn't get something he wanted and that he needed to have "time-out" to learn that it's not appropriate to scream. The thing is he's not very verbal yet and screaming is the only way he has to express his unhappiness about a situation. If he wasn't "allowed" to scream it's like saying he's not allowed to share his opinion or feelings at all. I think he is entitled to a developmentally-appropriate expression of his feelings. And anyway how is being set in a chair for two minutes supposed to teach him not to scream? I don't even think it would work. The whole situation really made me question the practice of punishment and consequences and to realize that's not how I want to relate to DS.
 

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At 16 mos? Redirect, distract. We have this large potted plant in my house and Nitara was digging in it. A natural thing for a toddler to do. I would have moved it but there's no place for it to go. Outside is too hot right now. So I just intercepted her every time she was about to go for the plant and put her in front of a toy or something. She got sooo frustrated. She didn't want the toy. But I just kept intercepting in a cheerful way and now she won't go near the plant. She did a couple of times, looking at me like, "Is she going to get me again" and I did. So now she doesn't even bother. She walks right past it like it's not even there. Pretty amazing.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmb123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it's difficult for many people to let go of their desire for "control" over thier children. There is a feeling of saftey when you think you have control. Especially since this is how his other kids were raised, I'm sure it feels intimidating to move out of his comfort zone in parenting. He must worry about how dd will turn out with out using that method. Will she turn out to be one of those bratty out of control kids who doesn't "respect" her parents and try to walk all over him?<br>
They key here is getting him to trust that there is more than one way. That lack of punitive measures can work. It is important for both of you to realize that this method may look different as you're doing it. There is often more work and thought involved, but it is well worth it. You'll end up with child that "does the right thing" becuase she wants to, not out of fear. She'll also have a trust and respect for you both that is genuine, not forced.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"><br>
dd was always(and still is!)very strong willed and curious!!!<br>
The only time she EVER gets a timeout is to physically seperate her from being violent towards her little brother.In those situations(normal for a toddler/older sibling)I seperate for safety, because she doesn't yet have impulse control.So I am protecting her from herself, and hurting others.BUT, I explain to her the entire time, only like a min.<br><br>
So,I basically was on my toes all of dd's infant-hood.She took alot of work, but we made it,GD all the way<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">It's so worth it and everywhere I go people think she is just so well behaved!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>USAmma</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">At 16 mos? Redirect, distract. We have this large potted plant in my house and Nitara was digging in it. A natural thing for a toddler to do. I would have moved it but there's no place for it to go. Outside is too hot right now. So I just intercepted her every time she was about to go for the plant and put her in front of a toy or something. She got sooo frustrated. She didn't want the toy. But I just kept intercepting in a cheerful way and now she won't go near the plant. She did a couple of times, looking at me like, "Is she going to get me again" and I did. So now she doesn't even bother. She walks right past it like it's not even there. Pretty amazing.</div>
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If only it was that easy! We have been doing that (like hundreds of times!) but she is very focused and strongwilled. She will take the toy and look at it like "are you nuts" and throw it down. Maybe we need to be more creative! There is a plant behind the sofa too, and yesterday she was playing on the floor by DH with a shovel, DH went into the kitchen (open to the living room and 10 ft away) and came back a minute later, she had got up run behind the sofa clear to the other end and behind the table and was digging the dirt out with her shovel. I think she must have watched DH when he was digging dirt lately and we were outside. Maybe its time for a sanbox!<br><br>
Anyhow I am just going to continue to redirect and attempt to distract as I don't think time outs would even work for her, and I don't think I would be able to handle it either. I don't want to undermine all the trust we have build in the last 16 months.<br><br>
Anyone have any video's we can get to watch for DH? He is not a reader and no time to read right now. If he sees it for himself then he will probably start telling me how to use GD with DD, and so I think I need to make him think its his idea, kind of DH GD!?
 

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Abi was my strong-willed toddler and did not redirect easily, if at all. Lots and lots of tantrums. I think beyond a certain point you just have to establish the rules and provide alternatives, and that may sometimes result in a tantrum. I wish I had better advice. Abi broke all the rules as far as parenting goes. I ended up moving the plant to another room when she was a toddler. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> Our barstools have been sitting in the garage for 3 years. Probably 2 more years to go before those come back into the house. :LOL
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">My other concern with timeouts is that I feel they are essentially an act of withdrawing love in order to gain compliance. I worry that it would give her the message that if she does x, then I don't want her in my company.</td>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod">
 

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An idea about the lamp. Is it a table lamp? could you tie the cord into a knot around the table leg? That way, if she pulls on the section of it between the outlet and the table, she can't pull the lamp over.<br><br>
There are some great baby gates that you can get that are configured to span large areas. One place to find them is Pet Edge, a pet supply company. They are available online. That may help you if you can find something to just isolate that area. They have walk thru gates in these so you can gain access but the child can't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>USAmma</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Abi was my strong-willed toddler and did not redirect easily, if at all. Lots and lots of tantrums. I think beyond a certain point you just have to establish the rules and provide alternatives, and that may sometimes result in a tantrum. I wish I had better advice. Abi broke all the rules as far as parenting goes. I ended up moving the plant to another room when she was a toddler. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> Our barstools have been sitting in the garage for 3 years. Probably 2 more years to go before those come back into the house. :LOL</div>
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Definitely more like Celeste lol and makes perfect sense, we have really had to do that already really in a few ways, just for her own safety and she does have tantrums, bangs head on floor, the works! We have really worked hard with her, being empathic and saying for example "I know you are mad you want whatever but we have to change your diaper right now its poopy" or "I know your sad you want to play with Mama's glass but here is yours" or whatever it is. Once we have verbalized and acknowledged her emotion she really seems to take a big sigh and relax, like we have understood. Sometimes I think she just needs to vent too. The good news is the tantrums are a lot better, and also when we ask her what she needs she will tell us most of the time and realize that works much better!<br><br>
Anyhow had a long talk today with DH and think he kind of gets the point more, so thats good.
 
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