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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI...<br>
I posted on this forum a while ago but i'll introduce myself again <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br>
i'm a sahm to my dd who is now 12 weeks old...she is *not* vaxed and i want to keep it that way...i'm in ontario, canada so the only vax u "have" to get is PENTACEL (which includes 5 vaccines-incl. act-Hib--this one is paid for by the gov't)..the others are 'by choice'(pay out of pocket or insurance covers it-ie. chickenpox and others i cant remember right now)<br><br>
anyway there is sooo much info it's so overwhelming but for me, my religious beliefs are so strong i cant allow for anyone to inject my baby with what i consider poison --i had to act fast, so i started reading on vaxes b4 dd was born but it was so much i decided to look into the religious aspect (vax's in general are allowed, but the principle in islam is that u are *not* allowed to use prohibited ingredients --anything from pig, alcohol, dead animals--to cure an illness)...so after finding info on that i told dh and though he does lean more to the medical side i told him listen i'm the one doing all this research and i'm not subjecting her to anythign based on what i have read and believe...so...cool, we're not vaxing...he's a little more hesitant about it than i am and it's hard where we live, b/c everyone and their mom vax's but wahtever man, we're outcasts anyway <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
man, what a great place to go for support, seriously, the real world is tough on ur spirit some days, kwim?<br>
after my aunt asked me about vaxing in front of a bunch of other ppl (which i'm sure my mom put her up to in order to put me on teh spot--why else would it come up an hour after my mom asked about her vax's?) i said we are not doing it and she was like WHY?!?!?!? almost in a screaming tone and i told her our reason (they are of the same belief but not so practicing--and they *know* how strongly dh and i follow islam) and she was like (in such a sarcastic/rude tone of voice) 'oh so ur just gonna put ur trust in God?' <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> like, what do u want me to say to something like that...ummm, no, i'll put my trust in doctors instead..what the heck<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> i told her yes, we trust Allah will protect her if we stay away from things HE forbid<br><br>
just fyi- islam doesnt say 'reject medicine' or healing or cures, in fact, it's the opposite, we are *supposed* to seek cures b/c of the belief that Allah sent the disease and the cure, BUT only permissible methods and only if it's a life or death situation would u be permitted/obligated to use things otherwise prohibited...<br><br><br>
anyway i'm rambling...dh feels we should at least do *something*, so i wanted to ask are there any alternatives to vax's?? besides eating healthy--islamically we have to bf for 2 yrs so that's a non-issue..<br>
anything to boost her immune system etc?(sorry, at a loss for words, i'm new to all this) like certain foods, natural medicines etc?<br><br>
thanks so much if u've read this far
 

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Hi there, fellow canadian. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">i'm in ontario, canada so the only vax u "have" to get is PENTACEL (which includes 5 vaccines-incl. act-Hib--this one is paid for by the gov't)..the others are 'by choice'(pay out of pocket or insurance covers it-ie. chickenpox and others i cant remember right now)</td>
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I just wanted to make sure that you knew that it's part of our constitution that all canadians have the right to refuse any medical treatment, including vaxes. There arent any vaxes that we 'have' to get.<br><br><a href="http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pphb-dgspsp/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/97vol23/23s4/23s4b_e.html" target="_blank">http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pphb-dgspsp/p...4/23s4b_e.html</a><br><br><br>
ds needs me, gotta go!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Aster..<br><br>
i'm aware that i have the right to refuse..i put "have" in quotes cuz that's how everyone, including dr's, makes u feel<br><br>
thanks for the link though!<br><br>
btw, do u have any links on the rates of certain diseases/illnesses in canada between vaxed and unvaxed children? or do u know where i can find that information--i want to see if the benefits outweigh the risks<br><br>
tia
 

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I'm sure the canadian numbers are just as low as the us numbers for most of the vax diseases... so, next time you talk to your aunt let her know Allah has been doing just fine.<br><br><br>
here is a possible link to canadian numbers...<br><br><br><a href="http://216.92.20.151/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36321" target="_blank">http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...threadid=36321</a><br><br><br>
you made me wonder....I wonder if there are islamic peditricians who support non vaxing. It would seem that would be possible.<br><br>
hmm something to think about for all of us non vaxers.
 

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I'm so sorry that your aunt/mom teamed up on you like that! How rude! As far as I know, Allah is the most reliable person you can put your trust in. Isn't that the absolute best thing you can do? Sorry to seem harsh, I'm Catholic and I've been exposed to way too much religion bashing lately. I hate to see anyone get bashed for being true to their faith. Sorry! off my <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox"> now<br><br>
There is some good discussion on here about boosting your immune system: <a href="http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58217" target="_blank">http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=58217</a><br><br>
I think it's like 60pp to print out all the responses, but that's what I did and I'm still not finished going through it all. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:<br><br>
Also, just curious and I hope it's not too <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/oops.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="oops">T, where does Islam stand on using products that originated from aborted fetal tissue? I'm struggling with this one myself right now. The Catholic church has basically decided not to decide. Their stand is that since you are not the cause of the abortion and that the actual tissues used are from babies that were lost in the 60's and 70's and they don't need the tissues from any more babies to produce the vaccines that we can use the vaxs with clear concience - HOWEVER, if we have a personal objection to it the church will stand behind us. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">: We're not obligated to refuse, but the church will stand behind us if we do.<br><br>
Here's the links just FYI and maybe a bit OT but maybe you could find something similar for Islam: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/cathnews.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...n/cathnews.htm</a> this one points out the two babies' tissue that is used but I'm not sure of the accuracy of the info on this because I haven't seen it with my own eyes - did a search at the CDC for WI-38 and MRC-5 and couldn't find anything that said "yep these are babies")<br>
And here's the CDC's summary of the catholic stand <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/cathnews.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...n/cathnews.htm</a><br><br>
Good luck! Hang in there!
 

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I began my journey on the non-vax path with mostly faith, intuition and a few facts and some info. I have just recently become more informed on a scientific/medical level thru this board and links.<br>
My dd is 3 and has not been in daycare, although she has been around her peers in playgroups, mom groups, etc. since 2 months of age, and with me in an elementary after-school program since 7 months. (My rule with the elementary kids was that they couldn't touch her hands or face.) It never occurred to me to fear exposure around other recently vaxed children. So some may think I am really naive and downright stupid! Now if there was an outbreak of a contagious and life threatening disease, I would certainly take measures to protect my dd, but I do my best to not live in fear.<br>
For immunity boosting, I am ebf'ing and now give her probiotics and sodium ascorbate daily. I am also reading and researching about cod liver oil. Those are 3 things that seem to be repeatedly talked about here to keep our dc's healthy. I, of course, attempt to feed her a whole and balanced diet, tho she is a picky eater and I am not hard core, as she gets the occasional ice cream, crackers, cheese puffs, etc. Healthy junk tho not the "really bad" stuff<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> So I think these other supplements are important. I have given her a multi vitamin since 2 years too.<br>
My mother is totally cool about our decision to not vax and listens and understands all of my reasoning. (I am certain that my vaxes in the 1960's were far fewer in # than what they now "issue".) My mil, otoh gives me way too much opinion and uninformed arguments. When I talk with her, I feel even stronger about my convictions, because she has been fed and believes all the hype. Stay strong!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by turquoise</i><br>
As far as I know, Allah is the most reliable person you can put your trust in.</td>
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just a clarification...in islam we believe Allah ( God in the arabic language) is a diety and *cannot* be personified.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Also, just curious and I hope it's not too <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/oops.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="oops">T, where does Islam stand on using products that originated from aborted fetal tissue? I'm struggling with this one myself right now.</td>
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--actually how amazing that u ask that, i just today while researching found an islamic ruling by scholars in saudi arabia on the topic...here is the answer they gave:<br><br><b>In some fields of medicine there is a trend towards using aborted foetuses for organ transplants. What is the ruling on this?</b><br><br><i>Answer:<br>
Praise be to Allaah.<br>
Nowadays there is something known as the trade in foetuses, in which some doctors deliberately abort foetuses so that they can profit from selling the foetal organs or cells, from which some kinds of injections may be prepared for the benefit of elderly rich people and others. This is a major crime, because it entails the deliberate murder of innocent souls for financial gain. This is a serious form of wrongdoing and the rulings concerning it are well known and obvious. The question of whether the aborted foetus may be used as a source of transplant organs has been researched by the Islamic Fiqh Council, which issued the following fatwaa:<br>
1.It is not permitted to exploit foetuses as a source of organs needed for transplant into another person except in certain limited circumstances under stringent conditions.<br>
1.It is not permitted to deliberately induce abortion for the purpose of exploiting the foetus for organ transplants to another person. Only foetuses expelled through natural or spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or aborted for a legitimate reason may be used in this way. Surgery should not be performed to remove the foetus except in cases where the mother’s life is at risk.<br>
2.If the aborted foetus is viable and capable of living, then medical attention should be aimed at preserving its life, not at exploiting it for organ transplant. If it is not viable and will not live, its organs cannot be used until after it has died naturally, according to the conditions of sharee’ah.<br>
1.It is not permissible to exploit any part of the procedures required to obtain and transplant organs for commercial gain.<br>
2.The procedures surrounding organ transplants must be supervised and regulated by a specialized and trustworthy organization.<br>
And Allaah knows best<br></i><br><br>
so basically to sum it up it is not allowed unless it was a natural death and then organs may be used to save someone else's life, as i understand it
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
oops<br>
 

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the very short answer is that the alternative to vaxes is discovering the amazing complexity of our exquisite human bodies and the using that info to give them every substance they crave in order to strengthen them.<br><br>
I don't know how many vax books you've read but the best I have ever read-- only 150 pages-- is Jamie Murphy's "what every parent should know about Childhood immunization". The only thing I don't like about it is the title.<br><br>
It is a good immunological primer, and has great info on the power of Breastmilk.<br><br>
Check out my "Great Book Alert" thread for excerpts.<br><br>
Might be a good book for your mother to read after you do.<br><br>
Good luck,<br><br>
Ray<br><br>
P.S. Good to have another monotheist here.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">just a clarification...in islam we believe Allah ( God in the arabic language) is a diety and *cannot* be personified.</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> I'm so sorry saffiyya, I didn't mean to offend. I just didn't know how else to express that properly. I hope you caught what I "meant" even if it wasn't grammatically correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
np turquoise..i got it..just wanted to clarify in case others didnt catch it<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> ur sweet
 

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I don't know about you, but sometimes I get overwhelmed by all the reading on the subject. I just saw a video tonight by Sherri Tenpenny, the foremost expert on vaccines at the moment. This video, more than anything else, has put my fears to rest and I am now comfortable with my no vax decision. You can get this video from <a href="http://www.mercola.com" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com</a> as well as an audio tape on how to legally avoid vaccination. Lots of great vax info on this searchable site as well as other health info and consumer warnings. Hang in there and trust yourself. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 
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