[rupiezum]

You know, after seeing posts like "Would you be friends with someone who formula feeds?" and "Check out this 'real women breastfeed' shirt!" I can't help but feel a bit dispirited.

The forum title is Support and Advocacy, but a lot of the posts demonstrate anything but. Is it any wonder that FFers react so negatively to things like the ad campaign? I hear tales of women being harassed by complete strangers in the aisles of the supermarket because they're buying formula. What purpose does that serve, exactly?

As a breastfeeding advocate, I am not interested in tearing other people down to make myself feel better. I argue for, not against. Shaming, belittling and berating others is not in my game plan. I know it's easier to criticize than to educate, but I've never been one to do things the easy way myself.

My heart aches for the women who - for whatever reason - are FFing their children. As an advocate, I aim to decrease that number. Period.

Yes, I'm a complete boob nazi. I'm a lactivist. Friends and family roll their eyes behind my back. I read every bit of research and passionately describe the latest injustices and wrongs against breastfeeding in our culture to anyone who will listen. I have unshakeable faith in the power of human milk, and like any good little crusader feel certain that I am on the right side.

It just makes me incredibly sad to see my fellow crusaders behaving less than honorably on the battlefield. I'm a hopeless idealist that way.

 

[bec]

Go back to the t-shirt thread. It has taken a much more positive note, and there is a good discussion going on now about raising people up, rather than attacking others.

Although, I have to agree with you about the general tone I have seen lately. I think a lot of people feel very defensive about their choices (this goes for those that ff as well, I suspect), especially when it is often going against convention.

I try to stay out of the I'm better than other people because I 'xyz'. They usually aren't productive, and end up attacking people. This is where people's feelings get hurt. I have problems with the threads that make wide, sweeping generalizations. There are always exceptions, and there is usually exceptions for every rule and making they're personal situation a good reason for doing almost anything you can think of.

Bec

 

[rupiezum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bec There are always exceptions, and there is usually exceptions for every rule and making they're personal situation a good reason for doing almost anything you can think of.

exactly.

 

[JillyKay]

Ya know though, it's people like you that bring the "misguided" back. I posted that t-shirt thread. And several people posted that they absolutely did NOT like the shirt. Had all of you not had the courage to speak out, I would have worn it. But, thanks to those replies, I see now how that could do nothing but deter moms that *aren't sure if they will* or do not BF. And that is the LAST thing I want to do!
So, while it is disheartening to see a post like that, I am glad I posted it. It brought about a change in the way I view thing - in a GOOD way.

 

[Lucky Charm]

Quote:

Ya know though, it's people like you that bring the "misguided" back

Right on.

Support and advocacy does not mean rip to shreads to elevate ones self.

 

[jessemoon]

Rupiezum, you took the words out of my mouth (off my screen?). Thank you for expressing what I have been feeling for a while now.

It is possible to be both passionate and compassionate about an issue.

IMO, our place as lactivists is to help reduce the numbers of formula fed babies. Help. Not alienate, not make mamas who are already having a hard time feel worse. Help. Of course it makes me angry when I meet/hear of someone who didn't BF for what I consider to be foolish reasons, but more often, the women I meet tried and stopped because of lack of support and education.

Now that I think about it, perhaps I need to put my energy into supporting mamas before they give up, not just fuming about it afterward. Most of the young (teenage) moms that I knew when I was teaching, formula fed because they saw it as the only real option. Maybe instead of amusing myself by looking up funny pro-breastfeeding T-Shirts on the internet, I should call the teen-parent programs at the local schools and try to get them hooked up with LLL or offer to volunteer to help educate these mamas myself...or raise money for good breast pumps so these mamas can BF and still go back to school. I am full of positive ideas now. Thank you !

jessemoon

 

[Gidget]

I checked out that t-shirt thread too. I saw the shirts and I personally would never wear some of them. I thought they were potentially offensive. I dont know about where you live, but in my area the girls around here like to fight and I could see getting into a fight with one of those shirts on.

 

[katja]

Yeah, Ali! I wanted to start this thread, but I didn't know how to say it as well as you. I used to feel really good after visiting this forum, but lately I feel kind of dirty, like I've been around too much gossip. None of us are perfect. We all need support. BTW, I recently peeked at another site where someone was looking for advice about BFing her 16-month-old. She said her friends were giving her a hard time, and wanted to know what she should do. The responses she got were utterly vicious. And I mean VICIOUS!!! It really broke my heart to see it. We women really need to do better by each other. I think there is a difference between having discussions about the reality of abm, and tearing down people who, due to whatever circumstances, use it.

 

[jadegirl553]

Maybe, tho, since this IS a breastfeeding support and advocacy forum, BFers who feel very defensive and frustrated about the greif they're given for BFing see this as a place where they can vent their true feelings. Does that make sense? I agree that IRL, we should be caring and not harsh about our choices, but why should we do that here? After all, FF is still the mainstream way of feeding babies.

Also, I think that the FFers here realize that rants about FFing are not aimed at them, personally. I think that the BFers on this board realize that any FFers here really struggled with BFing and the decision to FF, and they respect that.

Does that make sense?

 

[bec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadegirl553 Also, I think that the FFers here realize that rants about FFing are not aimed at them, personally. I think that the BFers on this board realize that any FFers here really struggled with BFing and the decision to FF, and they respect that. Does that make sense?

You know? I don't think really think that the ff'rs here do realize that. I have seen a bunch of people here who had very good reasons to not BF get very defensive about it, myself included (I BF, but have to pump and bottle feed dd). The problem is that there are very broad generalizations being made. There is so much "why do people want to feed they're babies junk?" It doesn't make it clear at all that their thread is not directed at certain people.

Bec

 

[TigerTail]

and please, not the 'n' word here... i know some ff'ers are thinking it whether i advocate gently or strongly, but do we have to buy into it too? (i'm a little surprsied i'm the first person to bring it up this round!)

sigh, suse

 

[Icequeen_in_ak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadegirl553 Maybe, tho, since this IS a breastfeeding support and advocacy forum, BFers who feel very defensive and frustrated about the greif they're given for BFing see this as a place where they can vent their true feelings. Does that make sense? I agree that IRL, we should be caring and not harsh about our choices, but why should we do that here? After all, FF is still the mainstream way of feeding babies. Also, I think that the FFers here realize that rants about FFing are not aimed at them, personally. I think that the BFers on this board realize that any FFers here really struggled with BFing and the decision to FF, and they respect that. Does that make sense?

ITA!!! This is my "safe place" where I can come and vent/b*tch about the mainstream practices that drive me absolutely up a wall... my relief from those people that I'm surrounded by that I must bite my lip till blood comes out my nose.... this is my therapy

I feel if I can get some of my bashing out of the way here, then I'm able to be a much more productive lactivist to the IRL people.

 

[jadegirl553]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bec You know? I don't think really think that the ff'rs here do realize that. I have seen a bunch of people here who had very good reasons to not BF get very defensive about it, myself included (I BF, but have to pump and bottle feed dd). The problem is that there are very broad generalizations being made. There is so much "why do people want to feed they're babies junk?" It doesn't make it clear at all that their thread is not directed at certain people. Bec

But that's my point, Bec- why should disclaimers be attached to everything- this is a safe place to vent.

And I think that with all the hurt feelings and apologies that happen after a BFing mom vents about moms who don't care enough to BF, that FF mothers would see that never are those vents directed at mothers who struggle with the decision, KWIM?

I think that Icequeen put it very eloquently when she called it "therapy"!

 

[bec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadegirl553 But that's my point, Bec- why should disclaimers be attached to everything- this is a safe place to vent.

I understand what you are saying. Believe me I do. I love coming here and knowing that people don't think I'm nuts for doing what I'm doing. It makes it a bit easier for me when there is just an assumption that "of course I would pump when the nursing didn't work."

The problem is that the "venting" gets really vicious. And if I'm coming here in a delicate moment to get my recharge from the judgement and raised eyebrows of the day, and I see someone saying that bottles are evil, and that I'm not a real woman if I use one, it is really disheartening.

I just think that somewhere between walking on eggshells, and bashing everyone who doesn't walk around all day naked so the babies can have quicker access there is a middle ground.

Bec

 

[sawsun1]

What we do in this life echoes an eternity.....

 

[rupiezum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillyKay Ya know though, it's people like you that bring the "misguided" back. I posted that t-shirt thread. And several people posted that they absolutely did NOT like the shirt. Had all of you not had the courage to speak out, I would have worn it. But, thanks to those replies, I see now how that could do nothing but deter moms that *aren't sure if they will* or do not BF. And that is the LAST thing I want to do! So, while it is disheartening to see a post like that, I am glad I posted it. It brought about a change in the way I view thing - in a GOOD way.

And *that's* a sure sign of a "real" woman.

 

[rupiezum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessemoon IMO, our place as lactivists is to help reduce the numbers of formula fed babies. Help. Not alienate, not make mamas who are already having a hard time feel worse. Help. Of course it makes me angry when I meet/hear of someone who didn't BF for what I consider to be foolish reasons, but more often, the women I meet tried and stopped because of lack of support and education. Now that I think about it, perhaps I need to put my energy into supporting mamas before they give up, not just fuming about it afterward. Most of the young (teenage) moms that I knew when I was teaching, formula fed because they saw it as the only real option. Maybe instead of amusing myself by looking up funny pro-breastfeeding T-Shirts on the internet, I should call the teen-parent programs at the local schools and try to get them hooked up with LLL or offer to volunteer to help educate these mamas myself...or raise money for good breast pumps so these mamas can BF and still go back to school. I am full of positive ideas now. Thank you ! jessemoon

Now you've made my day. I think that is a FABULOUS idea!

 

[rupiezum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by suseyblue and please, not the 'n' word here... i know some ff'ers are thinking it whether i advocate gently or strongly, but do we have to buy into it too? (i'm a little surprsied i'm the first person to bring it up this round!) sigh, suse

Well, I feel its use was appropriate in the context in which it was employed - though a slightly satirical tone is not always adequately conveyed in typed words on a web page. Too bad there isn't an icon for "tongue in cheek".

 

[rupiezum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icequeen_in_ak ITA!!! This is my "safe place" where I can come and vent/b*tch about the mainstream practices that drive me absolutely up a wall... my relief from those people that I'm surrounded by that I must bite my lip till blood comes out my nose.... this is my therapy I feel if I can get some of my bashing out of the way here, then I'm able to be a much more productive lactivist to the IRL people.

Yes, but there's a difference between venting and slamming, KWIM? Threads like the ones I mentioned in my original post cross the line into slamming, IMHO. Maybe it's just me, but I'm really bothered by mamas saying they'll toss out a friendship over FFing.

 

[jadegirl553]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bec I understand what you are saying. Believe me I do. I love coming here and knowing that people don't think I'm nuts for doing what I'm doing. It makes it a bit easier for me when there is just an assumption that "of course I would pump when the nursing didn't work." The problem is that the "venting" gets really vicious. And if I'm coming here in a delicate moment to get my recharge from the judgement and raised eyebrows of the day, and I see someone saying that bottles are evil, and that I'm not a real woman if I use one, it is really disheartening. I just think that somewhere between walking on eggshells, and bashing everyone who doesn't walk around all day naked so the babies can have quicker access there is a middle ground. Bec

That makes sense, Bec, and thank you for clarifying and sharing your position. I can see better where you are comming from. Also, rupiezum, I see what you are saying about the difference between slamming and venting.

However, I still stand by what I said earlier, that this is a place for BF moms to vent and find support. I don't want to have to add disclaimers to what I write about BFing, because I have to do enough of that IRL.