[MyNameIsBen]

I wondered out loud while making dinner with my partner how different she thought the United States would be if routine infant circumcision was unknown. I have wondered this before, in a more or less abstract way, many times. Would there be less violence? Less sexual misconduct and abuse? Less republicans?

Oddly, we turned this topic after I mentioned that Greenland was melting faster than ever before, and that got me to thinking about pollution. That got me to thinking about the Kyoto treaty, to which I think Clinton made us signatories. Then my partner remembered that he recently advocated circumcision as a way to combat AIDS. So, anyway, that's how I got here.

My partner wonders if this sea change would lead to infants being treated more like people than they currently are. What kind of deeply detaching effect does handing your child over to a doctor to be circumcised have?

I know this is an abstract question, but I'm just looking for other peoples thoughts. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ivan's Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsBen What kind of deeply detaching effect does handing your child over to a doctor to be circumcised have?

I have always felt that anyone who could hand over their tender little baby to someone to have their sensitive gentials pulled, stretched and sliced was very detached. I fell in love with my baby the morning my breasts felt fuller than usual. This was minutes before the stick test to confirm there was life growing in me.

 

[kxsiven]

Here is an interesting comment;

The social and psychological effects may be profound.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/SimpleTrend

 

[Anglyn]

OMG! My first child was circed, not only did I not know better, I didnt really know what it was or I never would have let it happen.

But, growing up, whenever he got a little hurt, like stubbed his toe, he always accused me of not caring that he was hurt. I always thought he was being melodramatic, like, was I suppose to panic over every scrape that I knew was minor? But after reading that article, maybe it came from his subconcious articulating something he couldnt back then?

Oh the guilt.

 

[DocsNemesis]

I went into the comments section of that article. One guy (who is arguing for RIC-because of cleanliness and reduction of infections

said that he has never heard of a guy who disliked being circ'd. Obviously this guy hasnt done any looking around AT ALL. I am pretty sure the thousands of men who are restoring are unhappy with being circ'd. I am also pretty sure that the men who have been suing are unhappy. I also know that my dh is very unhappy. I am going to post too, but I have to wait 24 hours for activiation.

 

[baybee]

I love the title of this thread because it actually makes the brain do some exercise to envision that possibility. I've just been working with this link from
Finland where a court decided that boys are equally protected from circumcision as are girls. That's what the U.S. and Canada will have when we grow up.
http://tinyurl.com/zhs5v

Baybee

 

[Minky]

I would hesitate to aline leaving boy's intact with not being a Republican, in the same way as I would hesitate to aline it with being steerotypically crunchy, because your going to lose people who really don't fit into those category's.

I am a Christian who voted for George W. Bush, but I left my son intact.
And just today I see that Bill Clinton is supporting circumcision.

I like the thread title too but come on, how is not circing going to eliminate republicans?

 

[LadyMarmalade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglyn OMG! My first child was circed, not only did I not know better, I didnt really know what it was or I never would have let it happen. But, growing up, whenever he got a little hurt, like stubbed his toe, he always accused me of not caring that he was hurt. I always thought he was being melodramatic, like, was I suppose to panic over every scrape that I knew was minor? But after reading that article, maybe it came from his subconcious articulating something he couldnt back then? Oh the guilt.

 

[kxsiven]

Just to clarify - I did not post that link because of it's political colouring. It was just one of the many articles out there connecting violence&circumcision.

Generalisation is dangerous, like Minky just proved. But. When we look at the American map and places where circ rates are very low(for example North California) and where they are high(traditionally conservatives states in middle USA)one cannot help drawing the conclusion that liberal thinkers are more open to question circumcision?

As far as the court case here in Finland - on the other hand I am proud it but on the other hand I am scared. This is now the first real attemp to stop religious circumcision of minors in Finland(not many here anyway, just check 2004 stats, only 7 cases). It might force the parliament make an actual law. That law can go in two ways; 1) circs are made illegal 2) religious circumcisions are put under social healthcare. Unfortenately I am afraid for option 2 since religious circ is just too much of a hot potato...

The good thing is that in finnish law doctors are allowed to say no to operations that go against their moral and Finnish Medical Association has taken very strong stand against circ and advicing doctors not to do them. But we do have some doctors coming abroad and they are the ones willing to do them.

I hope and pray that our parliament would have the courage.

 

[MyNameIsBen]

I was joking about the "less republicans" thing...sort of. Typically, republicans are much less comfortable with change and more likely to do things traditionally.

 

[travisandjill]

Well I too happen to be a proud republican, who doesnt circ or vax. I realize that many republicans are against change....but I have always considered myself a free thinker.

 

[2Sweeties1Angel]

Quote:

But, growing up, whenever he got a little hurt, like stubbed his toe, he always accused me of not caring that he was hurt. I always thought he was being melodramatic, like, was I suppose to panic over every scrape that I knew was minor?

OMG, my son is the same way. Maybe it is because I made the huge mistake of allowing him to be circed.

 

[DoulaClara]

I'm a Conservative Independant who happens to usually vote R- and my DH and I are going to selectiely/nonvax, and I'm pulling him over to the no-circ side, and we're crunchy organic types. Nope, I don't see the connection politically either.

The correlation between circumcision and the states is intriguing...

 

[christifav]

I hope I live long enough to see this as a reality. Hopefully our grandchildren's generation will be mostly intact.

Seems to me, RIC causes most of the problems it was designed to prevent. (masterbation, obsession with sex, sex/violence connection, child abuse...)

I don't think RIC causes Republicanism, but I do think that in general Republicans tend to prefer conformity (look like Daddy, etc). Of course that is just a broad generalization, though.

 

[trmpetplaya]

I'm a conservative Christian libertarian (I agree more with far far left wing than I do with either Democrats or Republicans - who I actually don't see much difference between

or much to agree with about...).

I've been thinking about this thread... It's hard to imagine such a thing ever happening or what it would do. I definitely agree that there would be less violence, but the main violence that would be much less would be the circumcisions that weren't being performed

I think that we would have to respect children more in order to get to the point of protecting all of them from needless mutilation.

But most of the changes I can envision have more to do with bringing about the end of circumcision, rather than stopping circumcision has with bringing about the changes... Wow, I hope that makes sense outside of my head! It's late and I should be in bed...

:

love and peace.