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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
this must effect alot of people, and i am pretty shocked at the Church's recent recommendation:<br><br>
The bishops reaffirmed church policy but called for these people to make "every possible effort" to have their previous marriages annulled. If the marriages cannot be declared invalid, the couple should celebrate their new marriage as a "loyal and trustworthy friendship" -- meaning they shouldn't consummate it.<br><br>
eta the link: <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/22/vatican.celibacy.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html</a><br><br><br>
also, i think this next link is really troubling, and pretty relevant to this discussion:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/22/alaska.priestsuits.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/22/al....ap/index.html</a>
 

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do you have a link for this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>polka123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">do you have a link for this?</div>
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yes ma'am, and there's no big red dog in it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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:nana: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/moon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="moon"> on the Red Dog thing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I guess AK was the Siberia for bad clergy?
 

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mama g, I'm glad you posted this. I read the portion you quoted, about married people living as 'friends' if they couldn't get an annulment and was just flabbergasted.<br><br>
This is one problem I see for a celibate clergy. You have to be VERY out of touch with reality to see this as a realistic solution.
 

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UUhh.......<br><br><br>
Oh good grief.<br><br>
I can't think of anything to say...this has scrambeled my brains and I need to go lay down.
 

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Gosh, this ones pretty personal to me. My dad is catholic, but had no trouble cheating on my mom, getting divorced, then remarried. And he would force me to go to church with him, until I was about 12-13, and at church he would take communion, and my little sister (raised catholic) would, but my older sister and I would be left in the pew feeling very, very isolated/condemned. It was miserable. Now my dad's on marriage number three but must feel pretty good about this one, because he did actually make the effort to get his first two kid producing marriages annulled. And so did his third wife. So now all six of their kids come from annulled marriages. Yet they are both "good" catholics.<br><br>
I guess I just feel a little more like, well, if people subscribe to such a restrictive religion and have no problem with the rules alienating other people, then they should have to follow them as well, does that make sense? I know my thoughts are pretty colored on this...<br><br>
I think these are desperate attempts, though, and that soon the catholic church will have to wake up and see reality.<br><br>
Just my :twocents!
 

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The second article's content has been ALL over the local news lately.<br><br>
And I'm really <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/ROTFLMAO.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rotflmao">: at the idea of this "loyal friendship" unmarriage. Yaaaah. That'll fly. Where do ya come up with this stuff?
 

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Plenty of very wealthy Catholics have been able to remarry using an annulment as Frank Sinatra, John Kerry and maybe Ted Kennedy - ?<br><br>
I feel bad for the children of the first marriages which were annulled.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>applejuice</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel bad for the children of the first marriages which were annulled.</div>
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Why?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/crap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crap">
 

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I feel bad for them because it is as if the marriage and the life they knew with their parents together never took place as far as the Church is concerned.<br><br>
Now, I know they are wealthy and can have anything materialistic, but depending on how important the Church is in their life and how they felt about having their parents together, I think that may be one sorrow.<br><br>
Just a guess.
 

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Do people really think that? All annulment means is that it was not a valid sacrament. Obviously the marriage took place. Obviously the life together was real. No one has the power to take that away.
 

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feel bad for them because it is as if the marriage and the life they knew with their parents together never took place as far as the Church is concerned.<br><br><br><br>
I think that is a common misconception among both catholics and noncatholics. An annulment does not erase the marriage or deny it. It simply says that a SACRAMENTAL marriage did not take place. The annulment is for the sacrament part only, not the legal aspects at all. And if you got a divorce, then truly a sacramental marriage did not take place or you would still be married!!! The children are still products of a valid, legal marriage. You're not supposed to pretend it never occurred or anything. Just that things happened either before, during, or after that rendered the sacrament invalid.
 

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But if you are very involved in the Church and a wedding isn't a wedding unless it takes place in a Catholic church, you are basically saying your marriage never happened when you get an annulment or the Church is. Before my mother finally admitted to herself and us that she was a lesbian she wanted to get the marriage to my father annulled so she could rejoin the Church with her 2nd husband. It was not an easy process to even apply for it and she became uncomfortable with the idea of basically stating the marriage never happened.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>applejuice</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel bad for them because it is as if the marriage and the life they knew with their parents together never took place as far as the Church is concerned.<br><br>
Now, I know they are wealthy and can have anything materialistic, but depending on how important the Church is in their life and how they felt about having their parents together, I think that may be one sorrow.<br><br>
Just a guess.</div>
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That is exactly how I feel and why I have a hard time converting. An annulment means the church sees it as no marriage ever took place because of certain ciircumstances, which vary. IMO that is wrong.
 

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That's just the point.... you are not saying any such thing. Let me give an example in a different realm. Suppose a crime is committed. Maybe a store is robbed. Witnesses, arrest... so on and so forth. At some point it comes out that the person who was arrested was not read his rights. They have to throw out his statement, start all over... end up not able charge him. The robbery still happened. The arrest still happened as a physical event... the handcuffs happened, the fingerprinting and the mug shot.... that all actually happened. The arrest is thrown out on a technicality but all the events are just as real. They just didn't meet the requirements.<br><br><br>
An annulment does not change the past. It maybe says that some parts of the past were not exactly what we thought they were... but they were darn close, obviously. Mostly it is a legalistic technicality in a highly legalistic church.
 

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The thing is though when you get married as a Catholic, it's supposed to be for life. Divorce isn't an option. Anulments were basically invented for those times when money talked or when maybe a marriage didn't actually take place (like never consummated) so that people could remarry and still remain within the Church.<br><br>
I guess when I left the Catholic Church it was b/c I found I didn't agree with a lot of things - abortion, birth control, the purpose of marriage, divorce, and quite a few other things. So my thought was why call myself Catholic if I don't believe a good deal of what is being taught as Catholic?
 

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Well, there's that pesky New Testament thingy.<br><br>
Jesus: "Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18; cf. Mark 10:11–12).<br><br>
Paul: "Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. . . . Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive" (Rom. 7:2–3).<br><br>
Paul: "To the married I give charge, <b>not I but the Lord</b>, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife" (1 Cor. 7:10-11).<br><br>
I haven't read much on why non-Catholic Christians think it's okay for couples to divorce and remarry when Jesus and Paul said this stuff. Anyone?
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">An annulment does not change the past. It maybe says that some parts of the past were not exactly what we thought they were...</td>
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Yea, but sadly in our culture there is still a big difference between being born "of a marriage" and "out of wedlock."<br><br>
Being one of those children who was "annulled" it definitely makes me feel stigmatized.<br><br>
Kama'aina Mama...maybe it just makes perfect sense to you as a catholic (if you are)? As a non-catholic, I don't get it. Just like I also don't get catholic communion... But just because it may make perfect sense to catholics doesn't meen it won't mean something different to those around, no? For instance, to carry your analogy in another direction, if a person was completely innocent of a crime, yet charged, tried, then get off on a technicality etc... yes, they are technically exonerated, but there is still a stigma that attaches.
 
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