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In church today, I had a hard time not wiggling with delight when this scripture was read aloud. I dunno, maybe I read more into it than most, DH didn't "get it" like I did, but I think some of you would appreciate it:<br><br>
John 7:22-23<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.<br>
23 If a man on the asabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?</td>
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The contest is that Jesus had just healed a man on the sabbath and the pharasees wanted to kill him for it. What really struck me was the juxtaposition of "circumcision" versus "made a man whole". I know he constantly referrs to himself as "fulfilling the law of circumcision" (making it obsolete and unnecessary), but I've never been quite so hit with (what I saw as) a direct implication that even Christ thinks circumcision is making a man other than whole.
 

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The forum guidelines for The Case Against Circumcision do not allow for the discussion of religious issues regarding circumcision. That discussion can be hosted in the Religious Studies forum and as such, I am moving this thread there.<br><br>
Thanks!
 

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Have never understood that either. Because the halakha (Jewish law as per the Phariseic/Rabbinic tradition) is that the boundaries of the Sabbath may be broken, so to speak, to save a life. So have never understood the story as written that he was getting his chops busted for saving a life on Shabbos. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"><br><br><br><br><br><br>
But that's obviously not what your thread is about, so will take my leave.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wave.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wave">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But that's obviously not what your thread is about, so will take my leave.</td>
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Im actually glad you brought that up... I have always wondered how much judaism has changed since Jesus walked the earth... Just like how much christianity must have changed... a little<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> since then. And also, unless Im reading it wrong... Jesus didnt save his life, he just made him whole. He did a 'work', a miricle, to make him whole. And maybe you can correct me on this but is/was <i>any</i> work forbidden on the Sabbath? Unless it was to save a man's life? I think that Jesus even goes on to say that they would exert themselves to save a donkey's life if it got stuck on the sabbath but they were 'busting His chops' for 'making a man whole'/ in other words healing him. Im not sure if its the right verse but I think this one is talking about restoring a man's withered hand. Jesus came to say this 'You people think you are worshipping God and think that you KNOW Him.... Im here to tell you that you dont. This is what God has always wanted from you! You have never been able to do this on your own!! IN FACT, No one can do this without His help. Let me show you the way!'... But that isnt what this thread is about so I might as well bow out now too. ttfn<br>
gen
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">. And maybe you can correct me on this but is/was any work forbidden on the Sabbath?</td>
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The 39 types of creative work are and were forbidden. Rest was created and allowed. I'm not sure what you are asking, really, though.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Unless it was to save a man's life?</td>
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Saving a human life takes priority over anything. Life and limb. Meaning if somone will lose an arm or use of the arm that also overides shabbos. If you need to call a doctor for life extending treatment or healing of a threat to life or limb, that overrides shabos. Etc.
 

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I think in this instance, Jesus healed a man whose injury wasn't life threatening. Like making a blind man see, or "lame" man walk, etc. The man is made "whole", but would have survived just fine without it - like he'd been doing before Jesus performed the miracle.<br><br>
I'm pretty sure the juxtaposition of circumcision and "made whole" is coincidence, though. Basically, if it's OK to perform circumcisions on the Sabbath, then surely it's OK to make a blind man see, (make him whole, because whole man can see, so to speak).
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>suzywan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7996451"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think in this instance, Jesus healed a man whose injury wasn't life threatening. Like making a blind man see, or "lame" man walk, etc. The man is made "whole", but would have survived just fine without it - like he'd been doing before Jesus performed the miracle.<br></div>
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Please read my post. No need to be blind or lame to honor shabbos.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BelovedBird</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7996487"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Please read my post. No need to be blind or lame to honor shabbos.</div>
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Please rephrase - I don't understand what you mean by the latter half of your post.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I think in this instance, Jesus healed a man whose injury wasn't life threatening. Like making a blind man see, or "lame" man walk, etc. The man is made "whole", but would have survived just fine without it - like he'd been doing before Jesus performed the miracle.</td>
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This is exactly what I was trying to say. In a longwinded, round about sort of way. lol.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'm pretty sure the juxtaposition of circumcision and "made whole" is coincidence, though. Basically, if it's OK to perform circumcisions on the Sabbath, then surely it's OK to make a blind man see, (make him whole, because whole man can see, so to speak).</td>
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I agree, but I can see why the verses jumped out and spoke to LittleLlama. Its a pretty <i>interesting</i> coincidence. Im not sure Jesus was trying to make a point about circumcision (but hey maybe he was!). I believe that the bible speaks to individuals in individual ways. Good or bad. There have been times when I have read the same verses over and over and I have gotten new meaning from it everytime. Like its a living book! Its awsome! I can imagine that God was speaking directly to you LittleLama. Talk about the Holy Spirit speaking just to your precious heart! thats wonderful!! Thank you for sharing.
 
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