[Aster]

I thought maybe we could have a thread about antinutrients. I've just discovered that all whole (organic) foods arent neccesarily created equal and that some whole foods actually contain compounds that leach vitamins and minerals from the body. I'd like to look at foods that should be avoided and I'd also like to examine ways of preparing foods to make them safer to eat.

an interesting article about the book nourishing traditions

Quote:

To inactivate the phytates, whole grain products and beans should be soaked for eight hours in acidulated water before cooking. They recommend adding two tablespoons of whey to each cup of soaking water, but I found that one tablespoon raw balsamic vinegar or umeboshi vinegar also work. Nuts should be soaked the same way and dried in a very low oven rather than consumed raw or toasted.

I guess this is yet another book i need to add to my reading list, but for now, i'm wondering how one would actually use grain products that have been soaked. Anyone do this and have a recipe that they can share? Can you still make bread out of soaked grains?

Another interesting tidbit that i read about phytates is that the whole soy controversy revolves around the fact that soy contains phytates. BUT, grains contain something like 10 times the amount of phytates that soy does!!!

 

[wombat]

Re soaked grains, I'm eating this sprouted grain bread, yep right now, crumbs all over the keyboard, hmmmn it's so good. It's made by Shiloh Farms. (shilohfarms.net) I guess they must soak the grains to sprout them? It's supposed to be more nutritious. Their website doesn't mention phytates or why they sprout it (other than it's nutritious).

 

[morsan]

Yes, Aster, soaking grains and legumes in acidulated water is imperative. I completely agree with you. It's kind of sad, that when people started realizing that white flour was bad, they thought that by substituting it with whole grain flour (baked in the same way as with white flour) was healthier. Really, it's just as bad, just in a different way. I guess it's natural though, you can't expect people to remember what their ancestors did in the way of cooking a couple of generations back, and most importantly, WHY they prepared grains in such a way.

I soak all my whole grains and legumes, with a bit of lemon juice or buttermilk.

Gotta go home now, baby bedtime. I'd like to discuss the topic further some other time.

 

[owensmom]

Funny, my acupuncturist is taking a Nutritional Therapy course, and she was talking about this with me today.

 

[allys jill]

aster,
any grain eaten in our house is soaked! we use them just as one would use unsoaked, it just takes a bit more planning. we soak flour products, too. for example, when we make pancakes here i mix the flour with some yogurt and leave it sitting out (yup) overnight and then mix in the other ingredients in the morning. voila---pancakes.

absolutely read that book as it's fascinating and contains valuable information. the book can tell you how to enhance the nutrient content of whatever you eat---nuts, seeds, grains, etc.

 

[Aster]

I dont really eat very many grains myself these days, but Boo is a carb fiend. I guess the least i can do is make sure that the grain carbs he's getting are healthier, whole, soaked, fermented, etc

So, i was looking for other antinutrients online and this is what i came up with:

Quote:

rape (glucosinolates, phytate), maize (phytate), tomato (tomatine, solanine, chaconine, lectins, oxalate), potato (solanine, chaconine, protease-inhibitors, phenols) and soybean (protease-inhibitors, lectins, isoflavones, phytate

reference link That's not very useful to me though, bc it doesnt really tell what to do about the antinutrients, and i'm not prepared to give up tomatoes.

I found some more useful info here including a list of other antinutrients There's way too much info to cut and paste, and it's not really organized very well, but it's interesting anyways.

I guess i'll start another thread for soaked/sprouted grain recipes.

I'd still like to continue discussing antinutrients and what to do about them.

 

[MamaMonica]

Interesting about soaking the legumes in whey/vinegar. I had no idea about this- will start doing it. Thanks for the info.

I read further about the book- some of those ideas need to not just be taken without consideration- adding seaweed can be extremely bothersome to some people because of the iodine content- especially people with certain autoimmune diseases- it can cause flare ups.

 

[morsan]

MamaMonica- Are you talking about the book Nourishing Traditions? I'm confused, because in it, Sally Fallon cautions against the consumption of seaweed. Basically because it contains very long chains of starch and therefore is difficult to digest (for non-asians). She does mention that taking powdered seaweed can be used occasionally by some individuals.

Aster- funny you mention tomatoes and potatoes since these are somewhat of a problem food for certain people. I had no idea they contained antinutrients. Rape, that would be canola oil then, right? I've stopped eating that kind of oil a while ago, but that's good to know.

Now, regarding the soaking time (for legumes, not grains) in your original post (in the quote), in Nourishing Traditions they recommend soaking for 12-24 hours, not 8 hours. Was that a quote from Nourishing Traditions? It sounds more like something from macrobiotics. In NT, it also says to cook legumes for 4-8 hours. Lentils and grains can be soaked for 7 hours, and cooked for 40 minutes. For porridge though, soaking can be from 12-24 hours. And cooking, several minutes.

About baking, it's not necessary to always soak the flour right before baking with it. You can also use bulghur flour, which is sprouted cracked wheat, which is dried out before grinding into a flour. Haven't tried it. I'm not all that comfortable with the idea of sprouting quite yet.

About soy, there's no soaking for the beans themselves that would render them digestible. The only way to rid them of most of their phytate content is to ferment them into tempeh, miso, and tamari. All other forms of soy (especially soymilk, and soyflour) is extremly indigestible. Soy has the highest amount of phytates and other antinutrients. Tofu probably doesn't contain as much since it's been highly refined. Not sure though, anyone knows more? I always like to think that Asians never used soy in the way we do in the West. As a fermented product, only a small amount is used. And from what I have read, soy has never been used as a main source of protein, a substitute for meat (like the way many westerners do today). It doesn't even contain all the amino acids in the amount that we need (there are two that occur in very small amounts, and in a form that is not as avilable for absorption). Combining grains and (digestible) legumes is a much surer way of obtaining all the amino acids the human body needs.

 

[MamaMonica]

morsan, I don't have the book- I referring to the link in the OP with the info. Scroll down the page and it says to add kombu to stock for valuable nutrients as well as using agar in cooking.

 

[MamaMonica]

morsan, what do you use for higher temp cooking instead of canola oil? I have problems with Canola oil (I have CD) similar to ingesting gluten, which makes no sense but is true. I want to replace the canola oil in my cooking.

 

[allys jill]

it's a good idea to replace canola oil, IMO. for heating to high temps the only oil that we use is virgin coconut oil. it's very saturated and so won't break down like canola oil.

 

[MamaMonica]

When you soak the beans/grains overnight with vinegar, do you discard that water in the morning or keep the beans in it (for cooking soups or using in a crock pot)?

 

[Aster]

I'm still digesting all this info about antinutrients. I found another article. This one is from Nourishing Traditions. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Morsan, i absolutely agree with what you're saying about soy. I agree that it's not meant to be eaten the way that most westerners eat it. Thank you for your input about soaking times for grains and legumes.

 

[allys jill]

mama monica,
definitely discard the bean water....you may even want to change it a couple of times during the soak. though i never quite manage that!

 

[MamaMonica]

Thanks, allys jill. I will do that next time. I compromised by throwing out half the water since I wasn't sure...